Stalybridge Station – 16th December 2021
In my meandering along the TransPennine Route brought me to Stalybridge station.
This Google Map shows the station.
As the pictures and the maps show, there is space at Stalybridge station.
Timings Between Manchester Victoria And Huddersfield
There are these trains between Manchester Victoria and Huddersfield.
- Liverpool Lime Street and Scarborough – stops at Stalybridge
- Manchester Airport and Redcar Central
- Liverpool Lime Street and Edinburgh
- Manchester Airport and Newcastle.
That is four trains per hour (tph) between Manchester Victoria and Huddersfield.
- They take around 9-14 minutes between Manchester Victoria and Stalybridge.
- They take around 31-32 minutes between Manchester Victoria and Huddersfield.
- As Manchester Victoria and Stalybridge is 7.7 miles, the average speed on this section is 33-51 mph
- As Manchester Victoria and Huddersfield is 25.7 miles, the average speed on this section is 48-50 mph
In this Transport for the North report , which is entitled At A Glance – Northern Powerhouse Rail, an objective of twenty-five minutes is given for Manchester and Leeds.
One possible way to achieve this time stated in the report is stated as.
Diggle upgrades akin to a new line.
Diggle is between Greenfield station and the Standedge tunnels.
Assuming a constant average speed between Manchester Victoria and Leeds, the twenty-minutes objective for this route means a timing of fifteen minutes between Manchester Victoria and Huddersfield.
I estimate that this would need an average speed of well over 100 mph to get anywhere near the required fifteen minutes.
But by rebuilding the line between Manchester Victoria and Huddersfield to High Speed Two construction standards, it appears to be possible.
Timings Between Manchester Piccadilly And Huddersfield
There are these trains between Manchester Piccadilly and Huddersfield.
- Manchester Piccadilly and Huddersfield – stops at Stalybridge, Mossley, Greenfield, Marsden and Slaithwaite.
- Manchester Piccadilly and Hull – stops at Stalybridge
That is two tph between Manchester Piccadilly and Huddersfield.
The direct train is a few minutes slower, but the stopping train is nearly ten minutes slower.
I feel some time improvements will be possible, but the Manchester Victoria services will probably be faster.
Conclusion
It is possible, there could be a unique high speed line between Manchester Victoria and Huddersfield through the Victorian tunnels at Standedge.
- One possibility, I can see is to have two fast tracks for the main TransPennine expresses and a third bi-directional third-track to accommodate the stopping services.
- The double track express route could probably handle six tph, as the only stops between Manchester Victoria and Huddersfield is two tph that stop at Stalybridge.
- Operating speeds on the fast tracks could be up to perhaps 160 mph on slab track.
- All trains stop at Huddersfield.
- A single bi-directional track between Stalybridge and Huddersfield could easily handle two tph.
There would be engineering challenges, but I feel it would be possible.
The Anonymous Widower 
No sign of any OLE work yet by the looks of it?
Comment by Nicholas Lewis | December 19, 2021 |
There was none and the Southport service was a 150!
Comment by AnonW | December 19, 2021 |
I was on the Vic-Staly line recently, and couldn’t see any piling work had been done – though https://manchestertostalybridge.co.uk/ claims there’s been some work round Ashton. There has though been a lot of bridge replacement and other preparatory work (which I can imagine might well cost more than actual electrification). They’ve also been moving the signalling to the new control centre over the Jubilee w/e.
Comment by Peter Robins | June 6, 2022 |
I am very much in favour of using battery-electric trains to avoid excessive disruption and costs.
Comment by AnonW | June 6, 2022 |
As am I but govt seems hooked on hydrogen
Comment by Nicholas Lewis | June 6, 2022 |
I’ve ridden in both and there’s nothing wrong for either.
I think Wrightbus have got the right philosophy for hydrogen and battery. They have double and single decker buses powered by both and they use similar components. Ideal for a mixed fleet.
But the hydrogen buses have a much longer range than the battery ones.
Horses for courses!
I also think, that we may see some unusual hydrogen power plants end up in HGV’s, trains and locomotives.
Watch Rolls-Royce and Zeroavia.
Comment by AnonW | June 6, 2022 |
> the hydrogen buses have a much longer range than the battery ones
that may be true atm, but will it still be true in 10 or 20 years time? I doubt it. Batteries have improved hugely over the past 10-20 years, and I see nothing to suggest that process won’t continue. I would liken them to semiconductors. The capability of the average modern semiconductor was unimaginable even 20 years ago, let alone when the things were invented some 75 years ago.
Comment by Peter Robins | June 6, 2022 |
Batteries stalled for a very long period but Lithium gave them a step up but that’s plateauing now. That said Lithium came from decades of research so its always possible that something else will be found
Comment by Nicholas Lewis | June 6, 2022
right on cue, Solid Power are now ready to start up their pilot plant in Colorado, and later in the year supply their partners Ford and BMW with solid-state batteries for testing. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/06/solid-state-batteries-for-evs-move-a-step-closer-to-production/ If all goes well and the car-makers sign off the design, the first cars fitted with the things should be rolling off production lines in 2024.
Interestingly, the article says the anodes have a high silicon content, which should lower the price.
Comment by Peter Robins | June 7, 2022
The major redesign in Stalybridge is now complete https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/first-electric-trains-on-transpennine-route-upgrade-in-sight-as-stalybridge-station-reopens The video gives a better idea of what all they’ve been doing. As I’ve said before, TPU isn’t primarily about electrification, but about removal of bottlenecks and other things that reduce line speeds.
There are closures over the next few weekends when they should be putting up the actual wires. It remains to be seen when that will actually be activated. There’s also the small matter of having rolling stock that can actually make use of the OLE; atm, I think there’s only the Hitachi bi-modes on that route that can do so.
Comment by Peter Robins | April 6, 2023 |
Agreed! It’s often all about tweaks. On the Great Eastern, Norwich-in-Ninety was achieved without any more electrification and the old Class 90s, Mark 3 coaches and good driving. But the track comes first.
Comment by AnonW | April 6, 2023 |
I plan to go to E Yorks in the next couple of months, so I may be on this line before too long, and can see what it looks like. But I think their claim that ‘electric trains are in sight’ is a tad premature.
Comment by Peter Robins | April 6, 2023
Northern 319/331 EMUs will be able to work up there once its electrified. They should have got the wires while they had a blockade another week would have been more than sufficient then given the railway back for the summer leisure period.
The other thing they don’t tell you is Stalybridge was fully remodelled in 2012 as part of modernising the signalling so this is pretty wasteful and thats why you can see a modern signal gantry being dismantled. Of course the underlying issue is this govt can never make up its mind what it wants out of TRU.
Comment by Nicholas Lewis | April 6, 2023 |
TRU is supposed to be upgrading to digital signalling throughout, moving control of this section to the Manchester centre. Of course, like electrification, it’s not much use unless there’s rolling stock capable of handling it.
I would assume that, once this section and Wigan-Bolton are electrified, the current Northern service will terminate at Wigan NW and become part of the City Region’s proposed Bee Network. The 319s should all have gone by then. That still leaves the question of TPT’s Desiros (and loco-hauled). TPT’s bi-modes ought to currently make use of the wires through Leeds, but don’t. They could also use the wires York-Colton, but don’t. Perhaps that will change when Colton-Church F is available (they seem to still be working at Colton, but that should all be finished before too long). If they don’t, it’s hard to see the point of electrifying to CF.
Comment by Peter Robins | April 7, 2023
Colton to Church Fenton wont be complete until Dec 24 due to teh fact they need possession of Colton Jcn to tie new and old wiring together. The Leeds lines are this Xmas so if they energise those lines then TPE could used the few extra miles but wouldn’t be surprised that they wont do that until all four lines are complete.
Staylybridge was already signalled from Manchester ROC when it was remodelled in 2012 but all thats been ripped out and replaced pretty wasteful let alone the further disruption to journeys and the railway industry wonders why the politicians wont get behind more capital expenditure.
Comment by Nicholas Lewis | April 7, 2023
That’s interesting re Colton – electric to CF was supposed to be finished last October according to their original flyer. They seem to have stopped giving completion dates 🙂
NR are doing some work at Neville Hill tomorrow – inc some new OLE – not sure what exactly. But I guess it’ll be a few years until CF-NH is upgraded and electrified. Then the bi-modes should be able to run electric York-Lds w/o issue.
Comment by Peter Robins | April 7, 2023
BR wired up Weaver Jcn to Motherwell as well as delivering three major remodelling & resignalling schemes along the route at Warrington, Carlsile and Motherwell in a little under three years. Colton Jcn to Church Fenton is all of five miles this shows you how far weve fallen behind. Yes people will say oh lots more elf &safety which is true but conversely they never had all the mechanised road rail plant thats now available.
BR did this as the DfT had its back against the wall and it had to deliver. NR just loaded up the NR credit card and just accepted cost overruns and as a result the culture across the industry is damaged maybe irreparably.
Comment by Nicholas Lewis | April 7, 2023
sorry, the NH work is on Sunday, not tomorrow
Comment by Peter Robins | April 7, 2023
I went on Vic-Staly today, and have checked on various forums. Wiring seems to be now complete from Vic to the tunnel between Ashton and Staly. I haven’t been on the link with Guide Bridge, but AIUI that is also complete. According to NR’s updates https://thetrupgrade.co.uk/upcomingclosures/, work to commission that is taking place the next couple of w/e. At Staly itself some gantries are still missing, so there’s still work to be done there, including closure on May 20/21.
Work seems to be moving to the Hud-Lds section, in places very evident to the passing passenger. This includes Batley, where the new crossover points should be coming into operation mid-June.
Comment by Peter Robins | May 2, 2023 |
I travelled on the Midland Main Line everyday in 1980 whilst i was doing an industry placement at GEC General Signals at Borehamwood. Every week would see visible evidence of more masts and wiring runs from the previous weekend and indeed overnight on some days. The snail pace today is demoralising its barely 7 miles upto Staylbridge really ought to have done by now. Oh and don’t tell me about the remodelling they’ve just ripped out the remodelling done in 2012 how much has that waisted.
PS: It was on old DMUs when you could sit behind the driver and see what was happening ahead in the 1980’s as well all great fun for a young engineer just starting out.
Comment by Nicholas Lewis | May 3, 2023 |
The last bit brings back memories for me of trainspotting on the suburban services into King’s Cross.
Comment by AnonW | May 3, 2023
Yes, it does seem to take a long time for NR to do anything. They started work on the actual electrification in November, i.e. 6 months ago. After the brouhaha over GWR and the subsequent cancellations, they were supposed to be speeding things up, but …
On the reason for the re-remodelling, see https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/stalybridge-electrification-and-remodelling.246621/ That post makes clear what one of the underlying problems is: the constant stop/start/will we/won’t we/yes/no/maybe later.
Comment by Peter Robins | May 3, 2023
At the end of the day NR are the experts and they advised on what was appropriate for Stalybridge in 2010 and then because of the fiasco they created through Castlefield with an workable timetable have now decided that it would be better back as it was. The DfT ought to be the ones kicking up a fuss but as TRU suited the levelling up narrative politics takes over. In BR we never had enough money but at least we were masters of our own destiny and largely made appropriate investment decisions which have stood the test of time. Yes they might not have all been future proofed but they laid the foundations that allowed the railway to restore credibility and grow itself again.
Comment by Nicholas Lewis | May 3, 2023
The basic issue with Castlefield is surely how to get trains from N England to Man airport – if they go via Guide Bridge to Picc, they have to reverse. Northern Hub proposed building the Ordsall Chord and increasing capacity through Castlefield with an extra line and new platforms – longer but without the need to reverse. The first part was implemented, but the 2nd is still outstanding. Running TPE trains from Liverpool through Vic to Leeds etc and through Picc to the airport basically works well.
In the long term, the only real solution is to build an entirely new tunnel-based line from the airport through Picc to Bradford/Leeds and onwards, as proposed by N Powerhouse Rail. That may be what happens eventually, but I doubt whether it will be in my lifetime. 😦
Comment by Peter Robins | May 3, 2023
Ordsall is a white elephant now 1TPH only.
I would have never spent anything on HS2 until all big UK cities had a German style S Bahn system. 5-10B would have sorted Manchester easily no existing tube system so wouldn’t have needed to be deep. tragedy is BR new this in the 70’s and had a plan to follow on from the Merseyrail tunnel joining project.
Comment by Nicholas Lewis | May 3, 2023
another forum post states that the scheduled completion for Vic/Guide Bridge – Stalybridge is April 2024
Comment by Peter Robins | May 3, 2023 |
I had a very interesting chat with a station guy on the dreadful 13-14 platforms at Piccadilly. I suspect he was a Graduate Trainee for Arriva or another train company.
He had previously worked on the London Overground and said that in London, the passengers obey staff, but they don’t in Manchester. So when a train comes into Piccadilly, they rush the doors and everything jams solid.
The other difference is that the Overground has a lot of level boarding, but Castlefield has none. One day, I’ll spend a few hours observing Castlefield and I suspect the current platforms and the trains that call, are a bit of a miss-match.
Comment by AnonW | May 3, 2023 |
There all differrent train types, length and operator whereas on LO or TLK it the same day in day out so people get used to it maybe. Of course what should have happened was an LO style service around Manchester only on this route not it trying to serve half the country with long distance routes
Comment by Nicholas Lewis | May 3, 2023 |
I think it was a big mistake not to build the Picc-Vic tunnel. The Lizzie Line is mopping up passengers and I suspect that like Lizzie, the Picc-Vic tunnel would have been extended to the airport.
One tunneller who worked on The Lizzie Tunnel, who I met at the launch of the Super Sewer’s two TBMs, said that the sewer tunnel would be a piece of cake, as everybody had worked together before and they all knew the problems.
Comment by AnonW | May 3, 2023
The TRU boss, Neil Holm, gave a presentation at the TfN board meeting yesterday https://transportforthenorth.com/calendar/transport-for-the-north-board-meeting-22-june-2023/ – starts around minute 8 on the video, though I don’t think there’s anything new in there.
AIUI, quite a bit of the remaining works around Staly were done night-times last week.
Comment by Peter Robins | June 23, 2023 |
It seems Picc-Staly is being ‘energised’ this coming weekend. See the entries for 31.12/1.1 at https://thetrupgrade.co.uk/upcomingclosures/ Not sure what trains are going to use it though. AIUI, piling work has started on Wigan-Bolton, but completion is scheduled for 2025, so the proposed Wigan-Staly electric service won’t start till then.
Comment by Peter Robins | December 27, 2023 |
Currently the Southport service is worked by 769’s so they could take advantage of the OLE. Also some of the TPE services are worked by 802’s so they should also be able to use it. As to whether or when they do remains to be seen
Comment by nickrl | December 27, 2023 |
Indeed, the 802s could at present use the electrification through Leeds, but choose not to. Hard to see how the few extra miles to/from Staly is going to make that much difference. The 769s to Staly would make more sense, as it would save them having to switch mode at Vic. (I meant Vic in my previous post, not Picc. I don’t think the Guide Br section is included in this energisation.)
I’m also not sure what the status is with the Church Fenton section. My understanding was that they had to close ECML at the Colton end to connect up the wires, and so would leave that till the xmas break when there are no trains anyway. However, I haven’t seen any mention of this having been done.
Comment by Peter Robins | December 27, 2023
This TRU post on linkedin confirms that Vic-Staly has now been energised. https://www.linkedin.com/posts/tru-west_major-milestone-alert-the-west-alliance-w1-activity-7148679514133340160-l3_l It seems the Guide Bridge bit will be completed in March.
TPE’s plan from last year for new trains includes the line “In addition to the procurement of new trains we will also enable the deployment of Automatic Power Change Over (APCO) on our existing Class 802 fleet.” which apparently will start in December. APCO is controlled by trackside beacons, not by drivers, so these have to be installed too. So this explains why their bimodes currently only switch at stations, controlled manually by the driver.
Comment by Peter Robins | January 5, 2024 |
Real Time Trains say that TPE’s Newcastle to Liverpool Lime Street Class 802 trains start on electric at Newcastle and change to diesel at York. There is no note to say they get back on electric.
Going the other way, it appears they start on diesel and change to electric at York.
Not very energy efficient!
Comment by AnonW | December 27, 2023 |
They change at York and Victoria (and vv), i.e. Lpool-Vic and York-Ncl is electric. I’ve been on that route many times.
Comment by Peter Robins | December 27, 2023 |
I thought they would change at Manchester Victoria, but Real Time Trains doesn’t say they do!
Comment by AnonW | December 27, 2023
At least in theory, assuming they can change over whilst on the move, they could leave the changeover to Colton (CF once that’s energised), switch to electric at Neville Hill, back again at Holbeck. Then change to electric at Staly once that’s energised. Maybe it’s easier operationally to change at a stop? I don’t know the details of how that works. If they’re not using the electric to CF, it’s hard to see what purpose energising it would serve.
There’s a tweet from yesterday https://twitter.com/theTRUpgrade/status/1739601990311678367?t=-QEeZyYc33kwEWecqSiZZA&s=19 which it seems shows the first piles on the CF-Micklefield section. That should be a relatively simple stretch to electrify, as I don’t think there are any obstacles that require engineering works.
Comment by Peter Robins | December 27, 2023
Well they could change around Stalybridge from New Year but will they? Also it seems Church Fenton isnt due to go live for sometime yet. Pretty poor in the same time 50years ago BR got from Weaver Jcn to Motherwell and had the Anglo Scottishes turned over to leccy working.
Comment by Nicholas Lewis | December 27, 2023
just looked thru the comments from April above, and it seems we said the same thing then 🙂
Meanwhile, MML seems to be progressing nicely. By all accounts, electrification through to Wigston is nearing completion. The bi-modes should be running by the time it’s complete. Not sure what comes next though.
Comment by Peter Robins | December 27, 2023 |
They should leap over Leicester and crack on towards Trent Jcns its pretty straight and some structures have been improved already. Also as much of it is four track must be possible to minimise disruption at weekends. Guess it happening anytime soon depends on whether there are many red wall seats that need saving along the line of the route.
Comment by nickrl | December 28, 2023 |
I think it’s too late for that! Unlikely that announcing rail projects now would change anybody’s mind, I would have thought. There have been statements that Syston-Trent Jcn would be the next priority, but I don’t think there’s been any funding announced as yet, though NR did recently put out a tender for the remaining sections of MML.
Since they cancelled HS2, there have been noises about electrifying N Wales, to Hull, and Sheffield to Lds (i.e. S Kirkby) and Doncaster. There’s also been talk of cracking on with the Midlands Hub. But that does not include electrification; Brum-Derby and Brum-Leicester would be the obvious candidates to replace the HS2 E Midlands link. HS2 are starting work at Curzon St, but is this grand new station really just going to serve trains to London and further N on ECML? They should add connections to the E Midlands and further NE, and to Bristol.
Add all that together, electrification and most of the main lines connecting the major towns is in place. But in the end, there’s still no coherent plan – just an uncoordinated mishmash of bits and pieces.
Comment by Peter Robins | December 28, 2023
Should Labour hold the keys in a years time im sure they will rehash all these plans anyhow come up with a more coherent strategy which will be just another vision as there wont be enough money for it. What we need is BR reincarnated from the early 80’s where there was huge internal challenge to get on top of costs and deliver projects reliably after the APT debacle. ECML was the pinnacle project ( i played a very minor part) where the team of experienced engineers came up with cost effective solutions and drove the project forward relentlessly day in day out. This DNA has been lost through privatisation when the NR credit just soaked up the overspends and created a culture where money became secondary to delivering the project. Then after the GWEP fiasco being risk adverse was fuelled further and we now have TRU being costed at 11B and taking to at least 2030 to complete. This plainly not vfw and the Torys know it but i reckon are now leaving bear traps for Labour on spending commitments.
Comment by nickrl | December 29, 2023
Network Rail have released more details on their plans for Stalybridge-Diggle https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/transpennine-route-upgrade-to-launch-stalybridge-to-diggle-public-consultation Seems they plan to move Mossley stn, and extend platforms at Greenfield. Hope is to have a TWA order application ready by next summer.
Comment by Peter Robins | September 4, 2024 |
Benefits not till early 2030’s though on this route is farcical. Just over 50yrs ago Weaver Jcn to Motherwell was electrified and resignalled in just under 4yrs – three times as long as TRU!!!
Comment by Nicholas Lewis | September 5, 2024 |
There’s considerably more to TRU than electrification/resignalling. The Hudd-Dewsbury section includes 4-tracking a large section, a rebuild of Hudd and Mirfield stns, and a separated jcn and new stn at Ravensthorpe. I’ve not seen a detailed breakdown, but this surely accounts for the majority of the money and time spent.
Comment by Peter Robins | September 6, 2024
Huddersfield stn is being remodelled as was the major jcns on the WCML and is being done a blockade – back in the 70’s they managed it under weekend closures and kept people on trains. The TRU four tracking section is well under way on the greenfield site the rest of it was originally 4 track reduced to two. This should be a 3-4yr project so benefits get realised quickly. The bill is forecast at c11B which is a ludicrous amount of money and to not be finished till the 2030’s implies carrying a large overhead cost adding to the bill. You’ve only got to see the four storey temporary accommodation at Huddersfield Stn to see where all the money is going.
The railway industry needs to get back to the 70/80’s eras of investment which delivered value for money and actually governments of the day, even the Tories, were prepared to fund the investment if it really wants to get the improvements the country deserves.
Comment by Nicholas Lewis | September 6, 2024
I managed to miss it, but it seems the Church Fenton bit was energised back in July https://thetrupgrade.co.uk/tru-news/tru-reaches-key-electrification-milestone-in-north-yorkshire/ That page states that the bimodes can now run up to 125mph on that stretch, though it seems no trains will actually use it until the end of the year.
Also, I see 769s are now using electric Vic-Staly, though again the 802s won’t be using it until the end of the year. AIUI, this should mean the 802s will use electric to/from CF, and to/from Staly.
Comment by Peter Robins | September 6, 2024 |
Both these sections have taken 5yrs to construct for what are just 5 route miles and yet TPE cant get its act together so the 802’s can increase there leccy mileage and save on diesel and promote the virtues of this investment by the taxpayer. The industry should be showcasing itself in front of the politicians so they secure more funding.
Comment by Nicholas Lewis | September 6, 2024 |
AIUI, the issue on the Staly section is that the balises for triggering the raising/lowering of the pantographs aren’t commissioned yet. Though that of course raises the question of why they weren’t commissioned at the same time as the OLE. And I expect drivers have to be trained too. The full wiring at Colton has also still not been connected up, and has to wait for the Xmas break, when the ECML is closed. (And that raises the question of why this wasn’t done last year, as originally planned.)
The latest section of wiring on MML was completed reasonably quickly, so it can be done, when there’s not too much engineering work outside putting up the wires. They have apparently started piling on the CF-Neville Hill section, where there’s not too much engineering to be done. But the full line into Lds will take longer, as they want to completely relay the tracks around NH depot to increase line speeds, which will mean a blockade of several weeks.
On the Staly-Diggle section they apparently want to lower the track in the tunnels. That will improve gauge clearance as well as give room for the OLE, but it won’t be quick or cheap. And it seems they want to add an extra track on the Marsden side into Hudd. So, yes, unlikely that this will all be finished during this decade.
Comment by Peter Robins | September 6, 2024