Do Those Who Live On The East Coast Main Line Tend To Go To Amsterdam, Brussels And Paris By Eurostar?
In Do Those Who Live On The Midland Main Line Tend To Go To Amsterdam, Brussels And Paris By Eurostar?, so I think it is only fair to investigate the East Coast Main Line.
Google AI gave me this answer, when I asked the question in the title of this post.
Whether people living along the East Coast Main Line (ECML) use the Eurostar to reach Amsterdam, Brussels, and Paris depends entirely on how far north they live. While the ECML provides a seamless, direct connection into London King’s Cross—which sits right across the street from the Eurostar terminal at St Pancras International—the choice between the train and flying shifts dramatically based on geographic location.
The London & South ECML Catchment (London, Hertfordshire, Cambridgeshire)
For residents in the southern sections of the line (e.g., London, Stevenage, Peterborough, and even Cambridge via connections), Eurostar is highly favored and overwhelmingly popular.
Paris & Brussels: At just over 2 hours to Brussels and roughly 2 hours 15 minutes to Paris, taking the train from St Pancras is much faster, more reliable, and more convenient than dealing with airport security and city-to-airport transfers.
Amsterdam: At around 4 hours, it remains highly competitive with flying once airport transit times are factored in.
The Mid-ECML Catchment (Yorkshire & East Midlands)
For those living around mid-line stations like Grantham, Newark, Doncaster, and York, travel habits are split.
The Case for Train: The ECML offers blazing-fast transit into London King’s Cross (e.g., York to London takes just under 2 hours). Because King’s Cross and St Pancras are effectively the same complex, a station-to-station transfer takes less than five minutes. Travelers can buy a specialized “London International (CIV)” ticket, which provides legal protection if a domestic rail delay causes them to miss their Eurostar.
The Case for Flying: Despite the easy connection, total journey times begin to stretch. For a resident of York or Leeds, flying to Amsterdam or Paris out of Leeds Bradford Airport or Manchester Airport often matches or beats the total door-to-door transit time of taking two consecutive trains.
The North ECML Catchment (North East England & Scotland)
For residents in North East England (Darlington, Durham, Newcastle) and Scotland (Edinburgh, Dunbar, Berwick), Eurostar is rarely the primary choice, and flying dominates.
Time Penalties: A train journey from Newcastle or Edinburgh to London takes 3 to 4.5 hours. Adding a 30-to-90-minute Eurostar check-in window plus the European leg means a trip to Paris or Amsterdam takes 7 to 10 hours by rail.
Aviation & Ferry Alternatives: Newcastle Airport and Edinburgh Airport offer short, frequent, direct flights to Paris, Brussels, and Amsterdam. Furthermore, travelers in the North East often prefer the overnight ferry options—such as the DFDS Newcastle-to-Amsterdam route or the P&O Hull-to-Rotterdam route—as a scenic, relaxed alternative to traveling south to London just to head back north-east into mainland Europe.
The East Coast Main Line seems to be much more of a you pay your money and make your choice, than the Midland Main Line.
London King’s Cross Station To Glasgow Central Station For £64.35
My plan on Friday, was to see if it was possible to get to Glasgow using the historic route of the Midland Railway’s Thames-Clyde Expresses.
I used two tickets and four trains.
My first ticket was from King’s Cross to Bradford Forster Square, which cost me just £24.55 with my Senior Railcard.
- I left on the 11:40, which was a nine-car train.
- The train reversed at Leeds.
- The train was eight minutes late into Bradford Forster Square station.
I took these pictures on my route North.
Note.
- The Biggleswade Wind Farm Is Only 20 MW.
- The new A 421 Extension Will Run between Black Cat and Caxton Gibbet.
- A large number of new buildings are going up on the approach to Leeds station.
- The train reversed at Leeds station.
- The reverse took ten minutes.
- The £100 million Shipley Traincare Centre is under construction.
- This page gives more details of the Shipley Traincare Centre.
- Bradford Forster Square station has been designed and build with four long platforms.
Have Network Rail designed the station, so that it can handle ten-car Leeds and Scotland services with a reverse?
- At Bradford Forster Square station, I bought a ticket to Glasgow Central/Queen Street stations for £39.80 with a Railcard.
- So that was my total expenditure of £64.35, as the coffee was free.
- My route would take me to Carlisle over the Settle and Carlisle Line.
- From Carlisle, I would take any of a number of trains to Glasgow Central station.
But first I would have to change trains at Shipley, where I took these pictures.
Note.
- Shipley station is built in the middle of a triangular junction.
- It has two footbridges.
- The station appears to have been improved greatly in recent years.
- The toilets are some of the best, I’ve seen in a railway station in England.
There are many worse stations to change trains.
From Shipley, I was a passenger in a very crowded Class 168 British Rail-era train.
But I did manage to take these pictures.
Note.
- The route is electrified as far North as Skipton station.
- Carlisle is electrified.
- It is a very scenic line.
- Several of the stations looked to be worth an extended visit.
- It would appear that the distance between the electrification at Skipton and Carlisle is about 90 miles.
- The maximum speed between Skipton and Carlisle is generally 60 mph.
Hitachi IETs (Intercity Express Trains) have regularly used the route on diesel, when there are engineering works.
I have a few questions and observations.
Could Zero-Carbon Trains Go Between Leeds/Bradford and Carlisle?
Consider.
- To run between Skipton and Carlisle, which is not electrified would mean running for 90 miles without electrification.
- Leeds and Skipton via Bradford Forster Square is electrified for charging at the Southern end.
- Trains can run into an electrified platform at Carlisle for charging at Carlisle.
- I have estimated that the battery-electric Hitachi IETs have a range of 120 miles away from the wires.
- Hitachi confirmed my figures.
- CAF have said that their Class 897 tri-mode trains have a similar range.
- Examining the UK rail network, it appears to me, that no stretch of main line has a longer stretch longer than 120 miles without electrification.
Are Network Rail and the train manfacturers working to the same 120 mile limit for unelectrified track?
If they are, then we can decarbonise passenger train journeys in the UK.
I believe three types of trains could run express services between London and Carlisle/Glasgow via Leeds and Bradford.
- A battery-electric Hitachi IET.
- A tri-mode CAF Class 897 train.
- A hydrogen-hybrid train.
Note.
- All would be 125 mph trains.
- All would be ten-car trains.
- All would have a range away from electrification of 120 miles.
- The hydrogen-hybrid would be mouse-quiet.
- The hydrogen-hybrid would be refuelled once per day.
- All trains would be able to handle the Glasgow and South-Western route via Dumfries and Kilmarnock.
The Thames-Clyde Express can be recreated.
Glasgow Queen Street Station To London King’s Cross Station For £52.40
My plan this morning, was to come home via Hartlepool, so that I could take pictures of the nuclear power station there.
I intended to take a train from Glasgow Queen Street station to Newcastle and then take local train to Hartlepool and back to Newcastle, from where I’d buy a ticket and take a train to London King’s Cross.
Things went well until I left Edinburgh on my train for Newcastle.
- I’d bought a ticket from Glasgow Queen Street station to Newcastle for £21.20 with a Senior Railcard, with a change to LNER at Edinburgh.
- I even had a reserved seat after Edinburgh.
- I found a good unreserved seat on the 13:00 Glasgow Queen Street to Edinburgh train, which left on time.
- It arrived in Edinburgh a minute late.
- As Marks & Spencer was by the platform of my Newcastle train, I was able to buy a lunch before I got on the train.
It was then that I noticed that my train took over three hours to travel to Newcastle, when I know they normally take under ninety minutes.
As the train left Edinburgh, it passed through Haymarket station, which confirmed we were going for a Grand Tour of the Southern Uplands of Scotland.
Note.
- The train took the fully-electrified line from Haymarket to Carstairs junction, where it joined the West Coast Main Line.
- I amused myself by taking pictires of the large number of wind turbines along the route and motorways and arterial roads, that share the route.
- It is certainly a route where the hills are alive with spinning wind turbines.
Eventually we arrived in Carlisle, where I took more pictures.
Note.
- The train waited at Carlisle for about 10 minutes.
- It looks like Northern Trains might have been running a pair of Class 158 trains on the Settle and Carlisle Line to add capacity. Real Time Trains confirm that they were.
- The last picture has an LNER train going North in the background.
- Some passengers joined the train at Carlisle.
By the time we left Carlisle, we taken an hour and twenty-eight minutes from Edinburgh.
Our train, then took the Tyne Valley Line to Newcastle, where I took these pictures.
Note.
- It’s not called the Tyne Valley Line for nothing.
- I didn’t see a wind farm between Carlisle and Newcastle.
- The Tyne Valley Line can handle a pair of five-car Class 800 trains.
- The train was powered for 61.4 miles on diesel.
By the time we arrived in Newcastle, we had taken a minute over three hours from Edinburgh.
I decided that I didn’t have enough time to go to Hartlepool.
- I decided to buy a ticket for London King’s Cross.
- I paid £31.20, with my Senior Railcard, for a ticket on the 16:55 Lumo.
- Two hours and 49 minutes we arrived in King’s Cross.
- We were seven minutes late.
But it was an average speed of 95.4 mph.
I have a few thoughts on the journey.
The Ambience Of The Journey Would Have been Improved By Battery-Electric Trains
The only section of the journey between Edinburgh and Newcastle, that was not electrified was the section between Carlisle and Newcastle, which is 61.4 miles.
The journey would have been a lot quieter, if the Class 800 trains had been fitted with enough batteries, to run the route on battery-power.
A New Entrance/Exit For King’s Cross Station – 27th September 2026
A new fully step-free entrance to King’s Cross Station has opened on the South side of Euston Road.
As I was passing this morning I took these pictures.
Note.
- The tunnel under Euston Road is level.
- It connects on the North side to tunnels and lifts to King’s Cross station, St. Pancras station and all the Underground lines.
- On the South side it connects to a new office block.
- There are lots of signs.
- The tunnel has stairs and lifts to the surface on both sides.
- The South entrance has a single lift.
- A kiosk appears to have been built in the South entrance.
- There are bus and tube maps in the new entrance.
These are some of my thoughts.
Westbound Buses From King’s Cross and St. Pancras Stations
I believe this could be a big benefit of the new entrance.
Within fifty metres to the West of the new entrance is Bus Stop A.
This has a good selection of buses including according to Google AI, these buses.
- 30: Towards Euston Bus Station
- 73 / N73: Towards Oxford Circus / West End
- 91 / N91: Towards Trafalgar Square / Central London (Note: Route 91/N91 may have temporary local diversions nearby)
- 205 / N205: Towards Paddington / Marble Arch
- 390: Towards Victoria Bus Station
Note.
- The 30, 73 and 205 buses provide a link to Euston.
- The 205 bus provides a link to Paddington and Marylebone.
- The stations have gained a step-free Westbound bus terminal.
I would expect this list of Westbound buses to be improved.
Later, I arrived at the Bus Stop A and took these pictures from the bus, as I arrived and as I walked back to the entrance.
Note.
- I arrived at King’s Cross after taking a 73 bus from Angel.
- Buses twist their way onto Euston Road in front of the two stations.
- Bus Stop R is beside a crossing to in front of the King’s Cross station.
- The area in front of King’s Cross, isn’t one of London’s most salubrious.
- There are a number of trees along Euston Road.
- Bus Stop A is in front of St. Pancras station.
- Some of the side roads could have cheaper hotels.
- The walk between Bus Stop A and the new station entrance is slightly downhill.
Once inside the station complex it was an easy walk to the trains.
There May Be Some More Affordable Hotels On The South Side Of Euston Road
If they are the new entrance will help travellers find them.
If You Have Heavy Cases You May Find The Buses Easier Between Stations
Euston to King’s Cross has been easy for many years. Now the reverse is true.
As I walked Through The New Entrance About Four Illegal Migrants May Have Taken Up Residence!
Two guys about sixteen had their sleeping bags down in the new entrance.
Did My InterCity225 From Leeds Arrive Like An Airliner In King’s Cross?
Consider.
- I took the 18:40 from Leeds to London King’s Cross today.
- The train was an British Rail-era InterCity 225 in superb condition.
- The train consisted of a Class 91 electric locomotive and seven Mark 4 coaches.
- The train was scheduled to stop at Wakefield Westgate, Doncaster, Grantham and Peterborough.
- The Southern section of the East Coast Main Line is fully digitally-signalled at least as far as Welwyn.
- I assume that means Welwyn North station, which is to the North of the Digswell Viaduct.
- According to Real Time Trains my train was on time, one minute fast, four minutes fast and two minutes fast at the four stops.
- South of Welwyn North station, the train is shown as either one or two minutes ahead of schedule.
- The train arrived in London King’s Cross a minute ahead of schedule at 20:52.
As a Graduate Control Engineer, I believe that from Welwyn North station, the signalling was being used to instruct the driver, what speed he needed to arrive in King’s Cross on time.
This resulted in the slight oscillations in the scheduled time, between Welwyn North station and London King’s Cross.
These are my further thoughts.
Just Like An Airliner
I have well over a thousand hours in command of light aircraft and I held an IMC rating, which is a UK-only qualification, so you can do limited flying on instruments.
As an example, I have done full instrument approaches at major airports like
Belfast Harbour, Dublin, Edinburgh, Hamburg, Leeds, Liverpool, Naples, Prestwick and Stansted, where you guide the plane in so that it is a certain height, at a particular distance from the runway.
Your instruments tell you the height to be at and the direction to fly using a device called an instrument landing system or ILS.
With trains, I suspect, digital signals just give the train or driver, a speed at which to travel.
I believe that if the train is instructed by the digital signals a higher percentage of trains will more likely arrive on time or perhaps up to a couple of minutes early.
The Newark Flat Crossing
I wrote about this notorious piece of track in The Newark Crossing.
My train today crossed the Newark Crossing, exactly on time.
- So was it being digitally-controlled through the crossing?
- Many trains on the East Coast Main Line cross the Newark Crossing within a couple of minutes of their scheduled time.
- For the system to work well trains crossing the East Coast Main Line must also be under control of the digital signalling or the drivers must adhere closely to their schedules.
I believe that full digital signalling will improve safety, where trains cross, join or leave a main line.
Crossing The Digswell Viaduct
This is a two-track section between Welwyn Garden City and Welwyn North stations.
- Various plans to make it four-track have been abandoned over the years, as it would cost billions of pounds.
- My train ran through the section two minutes ahead of schedule.
- Looking at trains on the section between Welwyn Garden City and Welwyn North stations, they seem to maintain the same difference from their scheduled time.
I believe that the digital signalling could be instructing the trains, so that scheduled times are maintained.
Conclusion
I believe as a Graduate Control Engineer, that applying full digital signalling to the UK’s railways, will have the following effects.
- Improved timekeeping.
- Increased safety.
- More capacity.
- It could save on the cost of new infrastructure, by avoiding the building of new track, bridges and flyovers.
- From my experience of installing control systems on industrial plant at Enfield Rolling Mills and ICI, many trains and locomotives can be fitted with add-on control systems. In fact, full digital signalling has already been applied to steam locomotives.
We should complete digital-signalling for the East Coast Main Line and then roll it out for other lines, in order of importance.
Aberdeen For £76.85 On A Walk-Up Basis On LNER
Yesterday, I was chatting with a friend, who had had trouble getting a reasonably priced ticket of any sort to Aberdeen.
- In the end she’d taken the Caledonian Sleeper, as she needed to get to Aberdeen early.
- I asked her, if she’d tried the LNER walk-up tickets, where you get what they haven’t sold, at a better price than the full price.
- I talked about these tickets in An Affordable Trip To Doncaster.
She hadn’t heard of them.
So this morning, I went to King’s Cross to look at LNER’s offers for travel to Aberdeen.
- I would have been able to get a Super Off Peak Single with my Senior Railcard for £76.85 on any one of four trains, each with a single change.
- Now back home, I am certain, that I could have gone both ways for £76.85 each way.
But I suspect that the intelligent machines at King’s Cross could have sold me a Super Off Peak Return for a better price than £153.70.
If I want to book at the beginning of September, I can do it for £132.45 from a reputable ticket site.
Do We Need More Anglo-Scottish Rail Services?
I have spent nearly sixty years analysing data and as the walk-up tickets seem to bottom out for Aberdeen at £76.85 and some trains are labelled as Sold Out, I feel that we need to add more capacity in Anglo-Scottish services.
- My friend’s difficulty in booking an Aberdeen ticket would seem to indicate that.
- Are travellers between London and Edinburgh, Glasgow and Stirling deserting the airlines in favour of zero- or at least lower-carbon rail travel?
I believe some AI is needed.
Are Anglo-Scottish Travellers Travelling By Rail Instead Of Flying To Cut their Carbon Footprint?
Google AI gave me this answer.
Yes, a significant and growing number of Anglo-Scottish travellers are choosing rail over flying between London and Scottish cities like Edinburgh, motivated partly by the fact that train travel emits up to 90% less carbon than the equivalent short-haul flight.
Travel Trends and Shift to Rail
Majority preference: On the Edinburgh-to-London corridor, rail has overtaken air as the preferred choice, with over 57% of travellers taking the train rather than flying.
Public sector leadership: Government bodies and public sector organizations have actively adopted “think rail first” policies, driving a steep decline in domestic work-related flights to London.
New operators: The arrival of budget-friendly rail competitors like Lumo alongside established operators like LNER has increased capacity and lowered average advance ticket costs, making the shift easier.
Why Travellers Choose Trains
Lower emissions: A train journey from London to Edinburgh accounts for roughly 12.5kg of CO2e per passenger compared to over 165kg of CO2e via a commercial flight.
Door-to-door convenience: City-centre to city-centre train connectivity bypasses airport security queues, baggage drops, and long transfers to and from outlying airports.
Productivity: On-board Wi-Fi and stable table space allow for continuous work that is difficult to maintain during a cramped short-haul flight.
I would only fly from London to Scotland, if I wanted to write about the flight.
My Interim Conclusion
It would be my conclusion, that we need more Anglo-Scottish rail services.
But how?
East Coast Digital Programme
The East Coast Digital Programme has its own web site.
As a Graduate Control Engineer, I suspect, it will bring the following benefits.
- Continuous running at 140 mph on some sections of the East Coast Main Line, as opposed to the current maximum of 125 mph.
- The 14 mile Selby Diversion was built in 1983 by British Rail, with a maximum speed of 160 mph to avoid the Selby coalfield. Trains at 125, 140 and 160 mph will take 6.72, 6 and 5.25 minutes.
- Will we see more 160 mph running? I wouldn’t be surprised,as in 1989 on Stoke Bank between Peterborough and Grantham, an InterCity 225 was recorded at a speed of 162 mph.
- The high speed capabilities of the InterCity 225 were again demonstrated via a 3 hours and 29 minutes non-stop run between London and Edinburgh on 26 September 1991.
- Trains can be flighted, where one train sets the speed and others follow. Think cycling pursuit at 140 mph with 10-car trains.
- As I indicated in Hopes Railway Station In Picturesque Village Could Become ‘Gateway’ To Northumberland Coast, strategic stops could be added to improve connectivity.
- Proven ideas from other lines with full digital signalling will be able to be applied to the East Coast Main Line.
- Journey times will be reduced.
In the 1960s, the sections, that I worked in at ICI, were applying digital control to complex chemical plants and this gave large productivity benefits.
West Coast Digital Programme
I believe that what can be applied to the East Coast Main Line can also be applied to the West Coast Main Line.
Could There Be Better Transport Connections Between Leeds/Bradford and Glasgow/Edinburgh?
Lumo Doubles Capacity On Trip From Edinburgh To London
The title of this post is the same as that of this article on the Northern Echo.
This is the sub-heading.
A rail operator Lumo has set a new benchmark for greener intercity rail travel after operating the highest capacity domestic intercity train in the UK and filling every seat
This first paragraph adds more details.
This one-off 10-coach electric service, which ran on July 4 and carried 772 passengers in each direction between Edinburgh, Newcastle and London, saw more than 1,540 people onboard the record-breaking return service.
If you look at the original article, there is a lot more text and two spectacular pictures of the 10-coach train crossing rivers.
Ten-Car Hull Trains
Hull Trains, who are a sister company of Lumo, have been running ten-car trains for some time.
I wrote about them in April 2023 in Ten-Car Hull Trains.
Creating More Capacity At King’s Cross Station
I took these pictures as I walked through King’s Cross station today.
Note.
- Each of the eight platforms in the main train shed, has been formally divided into a and b sections.
- In the first picture, a sign to the right of the clock, showing 0a and 0b, indicates that Platform 0 has been similarly divided.
- I would assume, that any services run by 10-car trains would use both the a and b platforms.
- Services run by 5-car trains, can use any free ‘a’ or ‘b’ platform.
It would appear to me, that 18 x 5-car platforms must be able to handle more trains than 9 x 10-car platforms.
This information screen, which is one of several, explains what has been done.
This is the message on the screen, which is only visible about once every ten minutes.
- There are now more trains to and from King’s Cross station.
- To help you find your train we’ve added new signs dividing platforms into sections ‘a’ and ‘b’ for some services.
- Please allow extra time to get to section ‘a’, as this is furthest away.
It’s not a good way to present information.
It is one of the worst examples of mushroom management, I’ve seen in a long time.
I suspect, that experienced travellers will understand it, but will the less experienced?
Will It Increase The Capacity?
I believe it is a well-known rule, that you get more bricks in a box, if they are all the same size and they are a fraction of the size of the box.
So by having five- and ten-car trains and platforms, Network Rail are minimising wasted space in the station, which is increasing the capacity.
The new digital signaling gives precise control of the trains and theoretically, would obtain the maximum number of trains in the station.
But all trains, that will use the station must follow these rules.
- Five- or ten-cars long.
- Trains must have a digital-signalling capability.
- Be able to cruise at 125 mph, so they can keep up with other trains.
Terminal stations on the East Coast Main Line, like Aberdeen, Bradford Forster Square, Edinburgh, Harrogate, Hull, Inverness, Leeds and others must also be capable of handling five- or ten-car trains.
Does The UK Need More Passenger Train Capacity Between London And Scotland?
I went from London Euston to Wigan North Western and Blackpool North stations on Wednesday.
Just after the Bank Holiday, the train to the North, which was going to Glasgow Central, seemed fairly busy, but I suspect that a few more souls could have been squeezed in.
Coming South in the early evening, there was a lot more space, but those that had gone to Scotland for the Bank Holiday weekend had probably returned.
At the moment, I am getting a lot of adverts like this, when I read The Times on-line.
It looks to me, that Avanti West Coast, are ecouraging travellers to use trains to travel to and from Glasgow.
How Many Anglo-Scottish Trains Are There?
- Avanti West Coast – 6 tpd – London Euston to Edinburgh Waverley via Birmingham New Street
- Avanti West Coast – 6 tpd – London Euston to Glasgow Central via Birmingham New Street
- Avanti West Coast – 1 tph – London Euston to Glasgow Central via Trent Valley
- CrossCountry – 1 tph – Plymouth to Edinburgh Waverley
- LNER – 2 tph – London King’s Cross to Edinburgh Waverley
- Lumo – 6 tpd – London King’s Cross to Edinburgh Waverley and Glasgow Queen Street
- Lumo – 4 tpd – London Euston to Stirling
- TransPennine Express – 1 tp2h – Manchester Airport to Glasgow Central
- TransPennine Express – 1 tp2h – Manchester Airport to Edinburgh Waverley
- TransPennine Express – 4 tpd – Liverpool Lime Street to Glasgow Central
Note.
- tpd is trains per day.
- tph is trains per hour.
- tp2h is trains per two hours.
- The two Avanti West Coast services via Birmingham New Street alternate.
- The Avanti West Coast London Euston to Glasgow Central via Trent Valley service runs 15 tpd.
- The two TransPennine Express services from Manchester Airport to Scotland alternate.
My initial estimate is that there are 5 x 15 tph +16 tpd or 91 tpd.
How Many Anglo-Scottish Trains Are There On HS2?
In the original design for HS2, this was the service pattern.
Note.
- Train 10 runs hourly between London and Scotland via Old Oak Common and Preston and splits at Carlisle with one train serving Edinburgh Waverley and the other Glasgow Central.
- Train 11 runs hourly between London and Scotland via Old Oak Common, Birmingham Interchange and Preston and splits at Carlisle with one train serving Edinburgh Waverley and the other Glasgow Central.
- Train 12 runs hourly between Birmingham Curzon Street and Scotland and serves Edinburgh Waverley and Glasgow Central alternatively.
It looks like HS2 contributes 5 tph between England and Scotland or 75 tpd.
But as HS2 is currently configured, these Anglo-Scottish trains will still run.
- CrossCountry – 1 tph – Plymouth to Edinburgh Waverley
- LNER – 2 tph – London King’s Cross to Edinburgh Waverley
- Lumo – 6 tpd – London King’s Cross to Edinburgh Waverley and Glasgow Queen Street
- Lumo – 4 tpd – London Euston to Stirling
- TransPennine Express – 1 tp2h – Manchester Airport to Glasgow Central
- TransPennine Express – 1 tp2h – Manchester Airport to Edinburgh Waverley
- TransPennine Express – 4 tpd – Liverpool Lime Street to Glasgow Central
If these trains continue to run my estimate is that there will be 4 x 15 tph +14 tpd or 74 tpd by classic routes.
This will mean 149 Anglo-Scottish tpd in total.
How Do You Get Between Leeds, Bradford, Sheffield and Hull, and Scotland?
If you look at the diagram, which shows the service pattern for HS2, note the following.
- HS2 does not provide a service between Leeds, York, Durham, Darlington and Newcastle, and Scotland.
- HS2 doesn’t connect to Bradford.
- HS2 doesn’t go past Leeds, but the current LNER services also serve Bradford Forster Square, Harrogate, Shipley and Skipton stations.
There is also no direct trains from the Leeds/Bradford area to Glasgow.
But Consider.
- The Settle and Carlisle Line runs between Skipton and Carlisle and used to host the Thames-Clyde Expresses that were run by the London Midland & Scottish Railway.
- The Wikipedia entry for the Thames-Clyde Express is an interesting read.
- Bradford Forster Square station was recently extended with two platforms , that can handle 10-car trains.
- Bradford Forster Square station has seven trains per day from London via Leeds.
- With a reverse at Bradford Forster Square station trains can call at Leeds, Bradford Forster Square and Skipton stations before taking the Settle and Carlisle Line to Carlisle.
- The Thames-Clyde Express used to take the Glasgow South Western Line to Glasgow Central calling at Dumfries and Kilmarnock.
- LNER’s Class 897 tri-mode trains will probably be able to handle the Settle and Carlisle and the Glasgow South Western Line, without using the diesel engines.
- East Midlands Railway’s Class 810 trains, when fitted with batteries, should probably be able to do the same.
There are a lot of possibilities of how the Settle and Carlisle Line can be used to increase zero-carbon connectivity between Glasgow and London.
The route wouldn’t be the fastest route, but it could be one of the most scenic.
Could The Settle And Carlisle Be Used As A More Formal Route?
In June 2021, I wrote Through Settle And Carlisle Service Under Consideration, which starts like this.
The title of this post, is the same as that of an article in the June 2021 Edition of Modern Railways.
This is the first paragraph.
Plans for a new Leeds to Glasgow through service via the Settle and Carlisle line are being developed, with CrossCountry and the Department for Transport starting to look at the possible scheme.
It sounds like a sensible idea to me.
The article also suggests the following.
- CrossCountry is a possible operator.
- CrossCountry are keen to improve services between Leeds and Glasgow
- The trains could be InterCity 125s, freed up, by a the arrival of Class 221 trains from Avanti West Coast, when they receive their new Class 805 trains.
- Maintenance of the trains wouldn’t be a problem, as this could be done at Neville Hill in Leeds or Craigentinny in Edinburgh.
- Services could start in December 2023.
But nothing more has been heard.
However some things have happened.
The Settle And Carlisle Has Become A Popular Charter Route
Google AI gave me this paragraph.
The Settle and Carlisle line is an extremely popular, premier route for heritage rail charters, steam excursions, and luxury rail tours in the UK, often operating at full capacity. Renowned for its scenic 72-mile journey through the Yorkshire Dales and Pennines, it features iconic structures like the Ribblehead Viaduct.
I have also written these posts about charters on the Settle and Carlisle Line.
Scheduled Steam-Hauled Services For the Settle And Carlisle Railway
Rail Operator Crosses Line For First Time In Years
‘Staycation Express’ To Return Along Full Length of S & C
It doesn’t appear that the numbers of charter trains are showing any sign of decrease.
LNER Has Ordered Class 897 Trains
When LNER took over the East Coast Main Line services, they had six main classes of trains.
- Five-car Class 800/1 bi-mode trains
- Nine-car Class 800/2 bi-mode trains
- Five-car Class 801/1 electric trains
- Nine-car Class 801/2 electric trains
- Seven-car InterCity225 trains
- Nine-car InterCity225 trains
Note.
- The five-car trains can run in pairs as ten-car trains.
- The Class 800 and Class 801 trains can run to destinations, that lack full electrification using diesel power where needed.
- Hitachi are developing battery-power for rail routes without electrification.
In 2023 to replace the InterCity225 trains ten ten-car Class 897 tri-mode trains were ordered from CAF, which will soon be in service, over all LNER’s network.
LNER Has Fully Electrified And Unelectrified Destinations
LNER’s current destinations, that are fully electrified to King’s Cross include.
- Bradford Forster Square
- Berwick on Tweed
- Darlington
- Doncaster
- Durham
- Edinburgh Haymarket
- Edinburgh Waverley
- Grantham
- Keithley
- Leeds
- Newark Northgate
- Newcastle
- Peterborough
- Retford
- Shipley
- Skipton
- Stevenage
- Wakefield Westgate
- York
Whilst those are not fully electrified include.
- Aberdeen
- Cleethorpes
- Dundee
- Grimsby Town
- Harrogate
- Huddersfield
- Horsforth
- Hull
- Inverness
- Lincoln
- Middlesbrough
- Sheffield
- Sunderland
- Thornaby
- Worksop
Note.
- Other destinations can be added as required.
- I suspect, that Class 897 trains will be able to approach many stations without electrification on battery power alone.
- Staff and Passengers would probably like underground stations like Sunderland to be worked on batteries alone.
The Class 800 bi-mode, the Class 801 electric and the Class 897 tri-mode trains will give LNER a very flexible fleet.
Onward To Skipton, Carlisle and Glasgow Central And Edinburgh From Bradford Forster Square
I wonder is someone has realised that the Class 897 trains could use their tri-mode capabilities to invade Scotland?
This OpenRailwayMap shows the railways between the Scottish Lowlands and northern England.
Note.
- Red tracks are electrified.
- Black tracks are not.
- The blue arrow in the middle of the map indicates Carlisle.
- The red track going North-South through Carlisle is the West Coast Main Line.
- The black track going South from Carlisle is the Settle and Carlisle Line.
- Where it turns red is at Skipton station and the electrification can power the train to Bradford Foster Square, Doncaster, Leeds or Sheffield stations.
- The West Coast Main Line splits North of Carlisle and electrified trains can reach either Glasgow Central in the West or Edinburgh Haymarket or Waverley in the East.
- The black track going North-South between Carlisle and Glasgow via Dumfries is the Glasgow South Western Line, which can be used as a diversionary route by some trains with a self-powered capability.
The Settle and Carlisle Line certainly makes Anglo-Scottish routes more robust and flexible when there is bad weather, engineering works or overhead wire or signalling failures.
Will Class 897 Trains Be Able To Run On The Settle And Carlisle Line?
I asked Google AI this question and it gave this answer.
Yes LNER’s new Class 897 tri-mode trains (scheduled for introduction from 2027) will be able to run on the Settle and Carlisle line. As tri-mode electro-diesel multiple units, these 10-car trains are designed to operate across the entire LNER network, utilizing electric, diesel, or battery power to manage non-electrified routes like this, providing a modern alternative to older, diesel-only fleets.
Key details regarding Class 897 on the Settle and Carlisle Line:
Tri-mode Capability: These trains can run on electric, diesel, or battery power, making them highly versatile for non-electrified, scenic, or challenging routes.
Operating Strategy: The trains are designed for flexibility and can be used across the LNER network, which includes routes connecting to Scotland via the West Coast Main Line (WCML) or through services from Leeds.Upgrading Service: They will replace the 40-year-old InterCity 225 fleet, offering a more environmentally friendly, modern alternative to current diesel bi-modes, such as the Class 800/802.
The route is a major, yet challenging, rail line featuring 20 viaducts and 14 tunnels, making it suitable for modern, versatile train sets.
I also believe that running Class 897 trains between Yorkshire and Glasgow offers opportunities to run new services, that will appeal to both travellers and rail operators.
Does The UK Need More Passenger Rail Capacity Between Yorkshire And Glasgow?
I asked Google AI this question and it gave this answer.
Yes, the UK requires more passenger rail capacity between Yorkshire and Glasgow due to severe overcrowding and forecasted demand growth. Major routes like the East Coast Main Line (ECML) and West Coast Main Line (WCML) are, or will soon be, at maximum capacity. Key constraints include infrastructure limitations and the need for better Scotland-England connectivity.
Key insights on this need:
Capacity Constraints: The WCML, particularly at its southern end, is already effectively full, with limited capacity for additional, longer trains. Similarly, the ECML is experiencing significant overcrowding.
Growing Demand: Passenger demand for long-distance rail travel continues to rise, with significant increases noted in journeys between Scotland and other regions.
Infrastructure Issues: Constraints include steep inclines, tight curves, and the need to mix passenger and freight traffic, particularly on the West Coast route.
Proposed Solutions: While some improvements are planned, such as Lumo extending services to Glasgow, the Integrated Rail Plan (IRP) focuses on capacity enhancements in the North/Midlands.
Strategic Need: Enhanced, high-speed connections are considered essential for long-term economic integration and to prevent increased air travel/emissions.
The great advantage of the route, is that is already in place.
Can The Settle And Carlisle Line Handle Planned Diversions?
Can The Settle And Carlisle Line Handle The Caledonian Sleeper?
I asked Google AI this question and it gave this answer.
The Settle-Carlisle line is not a standard route for the Caledonian Sleeper, which typically travels via the West Coast Main Line (WCML) to Edinburgh, Glasgow, and beyond. While the line is a scenic, double-track route with significant infrastructure, it is generally used for local services and freight, not long-distance, heavy sleeper trains.
Key Considerations:
Route: The Caledonian Sleeper operates on the West Coast Main Line, serving destinations like Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Inverness, and Fort William.
Capacity & Infrastructure: While the Settle-Carlisle line has major structures like the Ribblehead Viaduct, it is not the primary route for high-speed or overnight sleeper services.
Operational Normal: The sleeper service splits into portions at Edinburgh, and does not regularly operate via the Settle-Carlisle line.
In short, the Settle-Carlisle line is not designed for or used by the Caledonian Sleeper, which operates via the West Coast Main Line.
But it does appear, that in the past some sleeper trains have used it.
How Many Freight Trains Use the Settle And Carlisle Line In A Typical Day?
This article on the BBC is entitled Settle To Carlisle line: Shortage of trains ‘Hampering Growth’, says this about the number of trains.
From only two trains a day in the 1980s the Settle and Carlisle line now sees 14 passenger and 18 freight services a day.
That is progress!