The Anonymous Widower

Back To The Future With BYD Double-Deck Buses

Arriva run the 141 bus route for transport for London and today they must have been short of buses, as this older Wrightbus on a heritage number plate had been pressed into service.

The four pictures of an older Wrightbus hybrid bus, were taken on Moorgate this morning, when it was substituting for a newly-delivered BYD battery-electric bus on route 141.

As I tapped in, I made a remark to the driver about reliability of the Chinese buses and he smiled a knowing smile.

As an engineer and designer, I would list the design faults on the BYD double-deck buses as follows.

  1. The batteries don’t give the buses a long enough range.
  2. The buses don’t handle cold weather very well.
  3. The step into and out of the bus is too high for elderly people and is not the same as other London buses.
  4. The seating is more comfortable in AlexanderDennis, Evo-Seti and Wrightbus buses.
  5. The seats are also too narrow.
  6. The seats at the back downstairs are pokey, because of the position of the batteries.
  7. There is no rear view downstairs, which makes using the Mayor’s promoted Hopper Fare, which lets you take unlimited bus and tram journeys for £1.75 within one hour of your first tap-in, more difficult.
  8. The stop displays are unreliable.
  9. The buses don’t have enough seats for the 141 route.

But perhaps most importantly, few passengers have a good word for the buses.

December 22, 2025 - Posted by | Design, Transport/Travel | , , , , , , , ,

2 Comments »

  1. Metrobus have withdrawn the hydrogen fleet from Crawley after one caught fire and destroyed itself fortunately they had plenty of the old buses knocking around still seen as low as 52 plate thats heritage!!

    Comment by Nicholas Ronald Lewis | December 22, 2025 | Reply

  2. I asked Copilot AI if TFL chose BYD busses because they were cheaper despite being less accessible and comfortable and received an interesting response:

    Short answer: Evidence strongly suggests that cost was a major factor in BYD double‑decker buses entering London’s fleet — but the decision wasn’t made by TfL directly. London’s bus operators (Go‑Ahead, RATP, etc.) choose the vehicles, and TfL approves them. BYD’s buses were reported to be around £100,000 cheaper per vehicle than UK competitors, and TfL has publicly highlighted their lower running and maintenance costs. However, cost wasn’t the only reason: BYD was also one of the few manufacturers able to supply large numbers of long‑range electric double‑deckers early on.

    Below is a full breakdown of what the evidence shows. Why BYD double‑deckers ended up in London 1. Cost advantage was significant

    • BYD’s electric double‑deckers were reported to be ~£400,000 each, roughly £100,000 cheaper than UK-built alternatives.
    • For an order of 100+ buses, that’s a saving of £10 million or more for the operator.
    • TfL’s Deputy Mayor for Environment highlighted that running and maintenance costs are lower for these buses.

    Conclusion: Cost was clearly a major driver. 2. Procurement is done by operators, not TfL

    This is crucial.

    • London’s bus network is run on a contracted model:
      TfL sets the routes and standards, but operators buy the buses.
    • The City Hall Q&A confirms that Go‑Ahead procured the BYD buses, not TfL directly.
    • TfL’s role is to approve the operator’s choice and ensure it meets emissions and accessibility standards.

    Meaning:TfL didn’t “choose BYD” — operators did, and TfL allowed it. 3. BYD was early to market with long‑range electric double‑deckers

    When London began electrifying routes:

    • Very few manufacturers could supply double‑deck electric buses with sufficient range.
    • BYD was the first to deliver a long‑range, zero‑emission double‑decker for London routes.
    • Their partnership with Alexander Dennis (ADL) produced hundreds of buses for London operators.

    So even if the buses weren’t perfect, they were available at scale. 4. Large orders were placed because BYD could deliver quickly

    • RATP Dev London placed the UK’s largest-ever electric bus order (195 vehicles) with the BYD–ADL partnership.
    • Operators were under pressure to meet TfL’s zero‑emission deadlines.
    • BYD had the manufacturing capacity to supply large fleets rapidly.

    5. Ethical and human‑rights concerns were raised later

    • A London Assembly question in 2024 asked the Mayor about human‑rights checks relating to BYD procurement.
    • This shows that scrutiny increased after the buses were already in service.

    What about the complaints (accessibility, ride quality, reliability)?

    Your concerns match what many passengers and drivers have reported informally:

    • Steeper stairs and tighter turning spaces on some BYD models
    • Harsh ride quality compared with ADL or Wrightbus
    • Range limitations on cold days or high‑load routes
    • Reliability issues on early batches

    These issues do not appear in the official procurement documents, but they are widely discussed by drivers, enthusiasts, and passengers. So — did TfL choose BYD because they were cheaper?

    The evidence points to this conclusion: ✔ Operators chose BYD because:

    • They were significantly cheaper per bus
    • They had lower running costs
    • They were available in large numbers when needed
    • They met TfL’s zero‑emission requirements

    ✔ TfL approved the choice because:

    • They met emissions and accessibility standards
    • They supported London’s rapid electrification goals
    • They reduced operating costs for contracted routes

    ✘ TfL did not directly purchase the buses

    Operators did. If you want, I can also provide:

    • A comparison table: BYD vs ADL vs Wrightbus (range, accessibility, reliability, passenger comfort)
    • A summary of complaints from the FOI request about BYD BD11 buses (once TfL publishes responses)
    • An explanation of how TfL’s bus procurement model works and why it leads to these outcomes

    Just tell me what you’d like next.

    Comment by HW | December 22, 2025 | Reply


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