The Anonymous Widower

Councils Back Cheaper Crossrail Extension Option To Kent

The title of this post, is the same as that as this article on New Civil Engineer.

These two paragraphs describe the preferred scheme.

The council’s opted for the cheaper extension option which would see Crossrail extended from Abbey Wood east to Slade Green, Dartford, Greenhithe and Swancombe before stopping near to HS1 station at Ebbsfleet with a stop at Northfleet.

The report notes: “The preferred scheme is one that would see 8 of the 12 Elizabeth Line trains per hour that are currently planned to terminate at Abbey Wood be extended eastwards, sharing the existing North Kent line tracks with the Southeastern and Thameslink services.

Currently, the following services use the proposed route between Abbey Wood and Northfleet.

  • Southeastern – two tph – London Cannon Street and London Cannon Street via Abbey Wood, Belvedere, Erith and Slade Green.
  • Southeastern – two tph – London Cannon Street and Dartford via Abbey Wood, Belvedere, Erith and Slade Green.
  • Southeastern – two tph – London Charing Cross and Gravesend via Dartford, Stone Crossing, Greenhithe, Swanscombe and Northfleet
  • Thameslink – two tph – Luton and Rainham via Abbey Wood, Slade Green, Dartford, Stone Crossing, Greenhithe, Swanscombe and Northfleet.

Note that tph is trains per hour.

These services provide these frequencies at the stations between Abbey Wood and Northfleet.

  • Abbey Wood – eighteen tph, which assumes twelve tph from Crossrail.
  • Belvedere – four tph
  • Erith – four tph
  • Slade Green – six tph
  • Dartford – four tph
  • Stone Crossing – four tph
  • Greenhithe – four tph
  • Swanscombe – four tph
  • Northfleet – four tph

Note twelve tph from Crossrail terminate at Abbey Wood.

If Crossrail were to run eight tph to Northfleet, this would provide these frequencies at the stations.

  • Abbey Wood – eighteen tph, which assumes twelve tph from Crossrail.
  • Belvedere – twelve tph
  • Erith – twelve tph
  • Slade Green – fourteen tph
  • Dartford – twelve tph
  • Stone Crossing – twelve tph
  • Greenhithe – twelve tph
  • Swanscombe – twelve tph
  • Northfleet – twelve tph

Note four tph from Crossrail terminate at Abbey Wood and eight tph at Northfleet.

These are my thoughts.

A Turnback Facility At Northfleet Station

There will need to be a turnback facility at Northfleet station.

  • It will have to handle eight tph
  • Nine-car Class 345 trains used by Crossrail are 205 metres long.

Eight tph would suggest that two platforms would be needed.

This Google Map shows Northfleet station.


  1. The North Kent Line goes diagonally across the map from North-West to South-East.
  2. Northfleet station is a two-platform station.
  3. To the South of the station, there are sidings, which are connected to the North Kent Line.

This picture shows the sidings from Northfleet station, with Ebbsfleet station about a mile away.

It appears that there would be space to add two well-appointed turnback platforms at Northfleet station.

These pictures show some of the features of the current Northfleet station.

Rebuilding to add the turnback facility, could also include.

  • Full step-free access
  • Modern station buildings
  • A deep clean of the pedestrian tunnel.
  • An appropriately-sized bus station, with a zero-carbon shuttle bus to Ebbsfleet station.
  • Future provision for a high-tech people-mover to Ebbsfleet station.

It is not one of the better stations on the Southeastern network.

But it certainly could be!

I very much feel that Northfleet station needs to be rebuilt with at least two extra platforms.

A People-Mover Between Ebbsfleet And Northfleet Stations

I wrote So Near And Yet So Far! about the poor connection between Ebbsfleet And Northfleet stations.

It is a design crime of the highest order.

There has been a lot of pressure in the past to build a pedestrian link between the two stations, as reported by the Wikipedia entry for Northfleet station.

The station is very close to Ebbsfleet International station (the NNE entrance is only 334 yards (305 m) from Northfleet’s station), but passengers (using public transport) will find it far easier to access Ebbsfleet International from Gravesend or Greenhithe, as these stations are more accessible and offer easy access to Fastrack bus services. The walking route between the two stations is 0.6 miles (1 km) or 0.8 miles (1.3 km) and a suitable pedestrian link has not been built because of funding issues and objections from Land Securities.

Why when Ebbsfleet International station was built in the early 2000s for opening in 2007, was a pedestrian link not built between the two stations?

It sounds like it was a Treasury design for Civil Servants, who work in Westminster and wouldn’t dream of living in Gravesend.

How much did omitting the link save?

Probably in the the long term, about two-fifths of five eighths of f***-all!

The specialists in this type of people-mover are the Doppelmayr/Garaventa Group, who in the UK have built the Emirates Air Line and the Air-Rail Link at Birmingham Airport. Currently, they are building the Luton DART people mover.

Wikipedia says that the Emirates Air-Line cost £60 million.

Wouldn’t something similar be an ideal way to welcome people to the UK?

The London Resort

The London Resort, is described like this in its Wikipedia entry.

The London Resort is a proposed theme park and resort in Swanscombe, Kent. The project was announced on 8 October 2012 and, if given planning permission, it is estimated that construction will begin in 2022, with a first gate opening in summer 2024 and a second gate by 2029.

It certainly sounds the sort of place I avoid, but just like Disneyland Paris, I feel the developers will want a rail connection.

They could even want to have another people-mover from Ebbsfleet station.



November 5, 2021 - Posted by | Transport/Travel | , , , ,


  1. I am a little confused, ar article on IanVisits suggests that ‘If it’s built, this would see 12 trains per hour to Abbey Wood as is already planned, then extended past there to offer 8 trains per hour to Northfleet, and 4 trains per hour extending to Gravesend.’ does this mean 4 of the 8 to Northfleet carry onto Gravesend.

    I agree with the need for a better link between Ebbslfeet and Northfleet (though not sure it warrants a ‘dangleway’ costing £60m ) but some joined up thinking with the developers of the London Resort could provide a unique solution.

    Comment by Sisyphus | November 5, 2021 | Reply

    • I was slightly confused by the 4/8/12 trains to Abbey Wood/Northfleet and Gravesend, but I do think the Councils have said that to save money, stop all Crossrail at Northfleet or Abbey Wood. Perhaps Northfleet could be a bus interchange as well.

      I have friends in the Gravesent/Ebbsfleet area and if they go to London, they drive to Ebbsfleet and get the fast trains.

      Comment by AnonW | November 5, 2021 | Reply

  2. Good. Now find somewhere for the 12 westbound services per hour that terminate at Paddington to go. A complete waste of capacity.

    Comment by JMO | November 8, 2021 | Reply

    • By terminating at Paddington, they can easily up the service to twenty-four trains per hour in the central tunnel.

      They have capacity for another six trains per hour. Unfortunately, Heathrow is unlikely to want the capacity for some time.

      Comment by AnonW | November 8, 2021 | Reply

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