Tracing The Goblin Extension – Upper Holloway To Hounslow
In May this year, I spent time searching for an old Railway line in London called the Dudding Hill Line, which curves its way around North West London, from Cricklewood to Acton via Harlesden, Neasden and Old Oak Common. This is an index to all my original posts on the line.
In my conclusion post, I said this.
The line gives the impression of being well-built and well-maintained and probably except for the bridge-cum-tunnel at Craven Park would not be in the difficult and expensive category to open up to a loading gauge suitable for containerised freight trains and electrify, especially if you judge it against this post, which discusses the problems of electrification.
So I stick with my conclusion that the line should be electrified.
The main reason would of course be for the freight, but it of course opens up the possibilities for passenger services.
I didn’t mention extending the Gospel Oak To Barking Line this way, as I didn’t realise how easy it was to get between the original Goblin and the Midland Main Line.
At the western end of the Dudding Hill Line, the route joins the North London Line and then turns onto the Hounslow Loop Line to complete the journey to Hounslow.
The latter two sections of the line are electrified using third rail,so once the Goblin and Dudding Hill Line are electrified, the current dual-voltage Class 378 trains could be used.
As the platforms on the Goblin will have to be lengthened to take even four coach trains and many stations on the Hounslow Loop Line already accept ten coach trains, it would probably be easier to increase capacity on the line, by running longer trains, than by increasing frequency from the current four trains per hour. As too, the Class 378 is effectively two half-trains, where you can slot extra coaches in the middle, I think it’s fairly likely that more than four coach trains will feature at some point, if the politicians back the engineers to create the Goblin Extension.
What Should We Call The Extended Gospel Oak And Barking Line?
I ask this question, because I need a tag to label my posts, as I follow the line and write about it.
I think to keep it simple I’ll label it with Goblin Extension.
Do goblins live underground or overground?
Would You Want To Live With A Transport for London Route Planning Specialist?
Or probably anybody who does a similar job in say Paris, Berlin, Moscow, Mumbai or any other city with a complicated suburban rail network?
You just have to read this to find out the amazingly tortuous sense of direction they have. They would certainly have unusual ways of getting from A to B.
The reason for this post is I’ve just traced the possible route for London Overground’s possible outer circle railway based on the Gospel Oak to Barking Line. Or is that now the Gospel Oak to Barking and Back Line.
I’ll repeat the quote from the Modern Railways report on the Mayor’s Transport Infrastructure Plan for 2050.
There may be a case for further orbital rail capacity, says the document – it shows an indicative, uncosted network to link Hounslow, Old Oak Common, Neasden, West Hampstead, Harringay, Walthamstow, Barking, Abbey Wood, Bexleyheath, Norwood Junction, Sutton and New Malden and back to Hounslow, with another route between Abbey Wood and New Malden via Lewisham, Peckham Rye and Wimbledon.
So just how does the line get across South London after it is assumed that it crosses from Barking to Abbey Wood probably in a tunnel? Or could it be a dramatic bridge, with a road as well as a railway track?
The Route
As I did with the Northern Route from Harringay Green Lanes to Hounslow, I’ll start by listing the route in order from Hounslow to Abbey Wood.
Hounslow – Starting from here, the route would continue along the Hounslow Loop Line.
Whitton – There may be a need for a new curve after here, as trains will need to get to and from the Kingston Loop Line.
Twickenham – The next station towards London is Twickenham, so it could be that there may be something innovative here. Wikipedia says this about the future of this station.
The RFU has petitioned the government to improve the station to be ready to handle the increased use during the 2015 Rugby World Cup. Network Rail has consented to a plan to improve the station and the rolling stock, but progress has stalled because of disagreement between the London Borough of Richmond upon Thames council and some local residents.
I have now visited the area and it looks like trains will have to reverse at Twickenham.
New Malden – How they get from here to Sutton, which is their next named station is open to speculation. The most likely route seems to be to go to Raynes Park and then turn south, but this gets all mixed up with Thameslink. Or is that deliberate, as there may be spare paths on the Sutton Loop and it gives a lot of interchange opportunities.
Wimbledon – Having now visited the area, I feel that trains will stop at Wimbledon and then reverse direction to get on the Sutton Loop.
Wimbledon Chase – In common with many stations in this part of the line, the northbound and southbound tracks are separated by an island platform, so transferring between the Goblin Extension and Thameslink here will be very easy. And you can also change direction from north to south and vice-versa. It’s just like Canonbury on the North London Line, where passengers have a step-free reverse of direction, as I detailed here.
Sutton – The route would then appear to go pretty straight to Norwood Junction.
West Croydon – This will interchange with the East London Line and Tramlink.
Norwood Junction – When Thameslink has arrived and settled in, this will be a major interchange station. After my visit to Brockley, I’m now pretty sure that the line goes via Crystal Palace to Peckham Rye for the Nunhead-Lewisham Link.
Crystal Palace – There is same platform interchange to and from Victoria and London Bridge, a step free interchange to the East London Line and a good cafe.
Tulse Hill – There are connections here to Thameslink and London Bridge.
Peckham Rye – Here the route would take the Nunhead-Lewisham Link, then it should be plain sailing all the way to Bexleyheath.
Barnehurst – After here, the route turns West onto the North Kent Line towards London
So that completes the circle.
The Alternative Route
A second route across South London is also indicated between New Malden and Lewisham via Wimbledon and Peckham Rye. The stations could be as follows.
New Malden – Before here, use the previous route from Hounslow
Wimbledon – This is a major interchange to main line train services, the District Line and Tramlink
Lewisham – After here, use the previous route to Abbey Wood
Points Raised
As with the Northern section of the route, listing the stations raises some important points.
1. Interchanges With Other Lines
This part of the line has interchanges to many other lines. You could put these on the list.
2. Twickenham
With a properly designed station, this could make getting to Twickenham much easier.
3. Freight
Although not as important as on the Northern section, Abbey Wood is on the North Kent Line, which is connected to HS1 and the Channel Tunnel. So could the enlarged Goblin be the key to getting freight between the North and the Continent?
Freight from the Continent would come through the Channel Tunnel, travel to Abbey Wood using HS1 and the North Kent Line and then cross the Thames to Barking, where they would take the Gospel Oak to Barking Line to the Midland Main Line, the West Coast Main Line or the Great Western Main Line.
High value cargo might even come all the way from the Far East by train across China, Russia and Europe, instead of by a slower ship.
Perishable freight like fruit from Spain and Southern Europe has also started to use the Channel Tunnel, so would we be seeing more of this, perhaps even taking this route to distribution centres like Daventry.
The possibilities for freight are endless and not just into the UK. For instance, according to this report, the UK exports 80% of the 1.5 million cars made. Travelling across Europe, you often see trainloads of new cars, but you don’t see to see them here.
And will containers arrive at the London Gateway from perhaps the Far East and America and then be transhipped into Europe via the new Thames Crossing and the Channel Tunnel?
The Thames Crossing had better be a big one with the capacity for a large number of trains!
4. Unlocking South London
What these new routings do, is add lots of stations to the Underground map. So those unfamiliar with South London will find it easy to get to stations like for instance, Nunhead. Many a time, I’ve found visitors to South London completely lost in the area, as they understand the Tube map and can’t follow where they are in parts of the train network.
You also often don’t go to the right terminus station to get to your destination in the south, as the routes were designed with some form of sadistic twisted logic. What sane man, would think that to get to Dartford in the East, you’d go to Victoria to the West of the centre?
So will these lines unlock the secrets of the maze that is South London? In the same way as the East London Line of the Overground allows me to get easily to my friends in Anerley!
You can’t throw the current network out and start again, but you can add new routings, which make the system much more user-friendly.
You could claim that one of the main benefits of a completed Overground, Crossrail and Thameslink is that they make London’s railways easier to use for those who don’t know their Cricklewood from their Nunhead!
Summing Up
I probably haven’t got all this right, as I’m only using one paragraph of the report, an A-Z atlas of London and Wikipedia.
So don’t be surprised if I change this substantially as more information becomes available.
Will The Gospel Oak To Barking Line Be Extended To Hounslow?
The Modern Railways report on the Mayor’s Transport Infrastructure Plan for 2050 says this.
There may be a case for further orbital rail capacity, says the document – it shows an indicative, uncosted network to link Hounslow, Old Oak Common, Neasden, West Hampstead, Harringay, Walthamstow, Barking, Abbey Wood, Bexleyheath, Norwood Junction, Sutton and New Malden and back to Hounslow, with another route between Abbey Wood and New Malden via Lewisham, Peckham Rye and Wimbledon.
I did a brief piece of research on the route yesterday between West Hampstead and Harringay, and it would appear that there is a link off the Gospel Oak to Barking Line (Goblin), that enables trains to move to and from the Midland Main Line. I got a picture of the link just before my train from Gospel Oak arrived at Upper Holloway station.
Goblin To MML Link
I suspect freight trains use it to get from the Goblin to the Dudding Hill Line, which branches off the Midland Main Line, just north of Cricklewood station.
So an Overground train could run the same way stopping at West Hampstead and Cricklewood stations, before taking the Dudding Hill Line, through new Neasden and Old Oak Common stations on the way to Hounslow.
The Route
Perhaps it is a good idea to list the stations on the extended line in order from Harringay Green Lanes to Hounslow.
Harringay Green Lanes – My only observation, is that I use this station to pick up the Goblin, as I can get a 141 bus direct to and fom the station from within a hundred metres from my house.
Junction Road – This doesn’t exist at present, but is constantly being talked about to link the Goblin to the Northern Line.
West Hampstead – In a few years this will have grown into a full blown interchange, between Thameslink, Chiltern Railways, Jubilee and North London Lines. Having the new extended Goblin call here would improve the transport opportunities for those who live and work all across North London.
Neasden – This will probably be a new station, somewhere near the current Neasden station on the Jubilee line. I visited the area, when I was researching the Dudding Hill Line. It might be a place where some clever architect and developer could create a very useful interchange combined with some much-needed residential properties.
Harlesden – As the Dudding Hill Line runs virtually over the top of the current Harlesden station on the Bakerloo and Watford Overground Lines, like Neasden this could be a development opportunity.
Old Oak Common – I have seen in some reports Old Oak Common has been described as the Canary Wharf of the West. Also, every time I read about the area, more rail lines and ideas get thrown into the mix.
North Acton – The route has now joined the southern end of the North London Line. An interchange at North Acton has been talked about for years. There’s a discussion here.
Brentford – In recent years, this station was on the London Crosslink between Norwich and Basingstoke.
Points Raised
Listing the stations shows several important points.
1. Interchanges With Other Lines
This part of the line has interchanges to many other lines. You could put these on the list.
2. Development Opportunities
Many of the stations seem to have development opportunities. Perhaps not on the scale of West Hampstead and Old Oak Common, but there would to be scope at many stations.
3. Important Areas Served
The line effectively links Tottenham, which is one of the most deprived areas of London, through most of North London through Old Oak Common to Hounslow in the West. The western end point is close to Twickenham Stadium, which is not the easiest place to get to from North and East London.
I have not seen any figures, but surely this line would open up a lot of employment and leisure opportunities.
4. Freight
An electrified line, as it obviously will be, would also speed freight along the line, perhaps allowing more freight trains to between ports like Felixstowe and London Gateway and the lines to the North and West.
4. No New Rail Lines, Bridges Or Tunnels
In this brief look, it would appear that most of the infrastructure, except for station and the catenary, is already in existence. I can’t see too many protest groups and Nimbys objecting to what is being proposed.
6. Possible Objectors
Perhaps the biggest objectors will be other train companies objecting to London Overground encroaching on their territory.
Summing Up
So to sum up, I think that this part of the proposed line, might be developed in the near future, as it provides an important link without costing the multi-billions of a Crossrail.
The Easy-Entry Spacious Class 378 Train
London Overground’s Class 378 set a high standard for commuter trains.
Note the step-free walk-across entry, the longitudinal seating with lots of space for standees and the articulated joint between carriages.
Will It Be More Of The Same?
London Overground has short-listed four manufacturers for the new rolling stock for the Gospel Oak to Barking and the newly taken over lines. There’s an article on Global Rail News. Here’s the first paragraph.
Siemens, Hitachi, CAF and Bombardier have been shortlisted for a contract to supply a new suburban train fleet for London Overground.
The order will include 39 new trains in total, of which 31 will be used on the newly devolved West Anglia franchise routes and eight will replace diesel stock on the Gospel Oak to Barking route.
I obviously don’t have the figures, but surely the current Class 378 trains on the Overground don’t have any drawbacks that are talked about by passengers or the media. Except for the overcrowding, which is due to the success of the Overground.
But surely, it would be a common sense decision to just extend the Class 378 fleet.
1. Maintenance of a single uniform fleet would surely be easier and less costly.
2. All of your drivers and other staff would only have to be familiar with one class of train.
3. The configuration of the Class 378 is flexible, so it would be possible to run three coach trains on one line and four or even five car trains on another.
4. The Class 378 trains are becoming an icon to Londoners and regular passengers know how to use them effectively. Do passengers really want two train fleets on the Overground?
5. We also have the extra procurement costs if another type of train is chosen, as it will have to be fully tested.
I would be surprised if any train other than a Class 378 is chosen.
The Trains For Crossrail And Thameslink
London’s two new cross-town railways; Crossrail and Thameslink will both be fully opened around the end of this decade.
So it would seem logical that the two lines might share the same trains.
But it is not as simple as that!
All sorts of factors like delaying of projects, the slightly different natures of the two lines and the decision of Siemens, who won the contract for the Thameslink trains, to withdraw from Crossrail, because of a lack of capacity, mean that we now have two separate train fleets; Class 700 for Thameslink and Class 345 for Crossrail.
Although separate train fleets, it does look that the design philosophy of the two trains is very similar. Take this paragraph from the specification issued by Crossrail for their Class 345 trains.
Wide through gangways between carriages, and ample space in the passenger saloons and around the doors, will reduce passenger congestion while allowing room for those with heavy luggage or pushchairs.
From what I have read here on First Capital Connect’s web site, the Class 700 might be very similar.
So it would seem that four of London’s important new train fleets will be walk-through. In addition to the Class 345 and Class 700, the Overground’s Class 378 and the Underground’s S Stock are build to similar principles, although the latter two trains, probably expect more standing passengers.
One advantage of these trains is that they can be designed to line up with the platform edge, as the Class 378 generally do, which enables a simple step across the gap into or out of the train. At some stations, like Willesden Junction, on the Overground, the alignment is bad and you certainly notice the difference. So I will hope that the two new train classes line up with the platforms! As on Crossrail and Thameslink most stations will only be served by one type of train, I suspect that it could be possible.
In my view, if we are to have a step-free railway, then all station-train interfaces, should be a simple step across.
Another advantage of this type of train, is that you can walk inside the train to less-crowded areas or perhaps to your preferred door for exit at your destination. I do this regularly, when I take the short hop from Highbury and Islington to Dalston Junction stations on the Overground, as I get in at the front and get out at the back, due to the layout of the two stations.
This walk-through capability will be essential for Crossrail, where the trains and platforms will be 200 metres long. One of Crossrail’s engineers told me, that she felt some people might not like the trains because of their length and the long walks in stations. I don’t think regular users will mind so much, as they’ll develop a strategy that works for their journey. But will a tourist dragging a heavy case going from say Heathrow to Bond Street, be so happy after walking a long distance to get out the station.
The various proposals for new deep-level Underground trains seem to have through gangways like this proposal from Siemens.
So is a de facto standard for train design emerging, where trains have through gangways, flat floors and wide doors with no-gap step-across access?
I think it is and it will be to the benefit of all rail users, including the disabled and those pushing buggies or dragging heavy cases.
Looking at the pictures I took of Siemens Underground proposal, it seems the design fits such a standard!
A secondary advantage of this design is that it should tighten up stopping time at stations, thus making it easier for trains to keep to schedules.
Transport for London’s Two Iconic Brands
I have a Google Alert for the word Overground to pick up any stories about Transport for London’s newest railway system the Overground. The link is to the official site and on a straight Google search, it is number one in the list.
It’s only rarely that the Google Alert picks up a news item, that is not about the Overground.
So how does the Underground fare in Google searches. As with the Overground, the official site for the Underground is first in the search list. On the first page, there are only a couple of pages that are nothing to do with the London Underground.
Even the word Tube typed by itself into Google, produces virtually a complete page of information about the Underground.
I suspect that London’s two iconic brands; Underground and Overground, together with their nickname Tube have one of the best worldwide recognitions.
Frank Pick, who led London Transport in the early days and oversaw the creation of the original corporate branding, will be laughing through history.
Who would have thought that a man from Spalding, who qualified as a solicitor, would have become one of the people with the greatest influence on the look of today’s London? Only Christopher Wren and Joseph Bazalgette come close.
Why We Should Improve Train Lines
I’m biased and love trains and other forms of public transport.
But everybody should read this document, which describes how and why a group wants to upgrade all the train services in the Lea Valley.
It details various solutions and the benefits they will bring.
It is also a report that has been listened to!
Lea Bridge station is being reopened and the London Overground, is taking over the Lea Valley lines.
The report is also full of innovative and sensible suggestions about how to improve the area for work, rest and play. Typical is the idea to create a footpath and cycleway to Northumberland Park station across the Lea Valley.
If the Overground can do for the Lea Valley lines, what it has done for other parts of London, it’ll be a good start.
The Anonymous Widower 