The Anonymous Widower

Would It Be Possible For The Bakerloo And Watford DC Lines To Use The Same Trains?

These two lines are very different.

Ten stations are shared between the lines, of which only one; Queen’s Park offers level boarding.

The Shared Stations

The nine shared stations often have considerable steps up and down, as at Willesden Junction station, which is shown in Train-Platform Interface On Platform 1 At Willesden Junction.

I am rather pleased and pleasantly surprised, that there are not more accidents at the shared stations, but using the line must be a nightmare for wheelchair users, buggy pushes and large case draggers.

If Transport for London proposed building a line like this, they would have to launch it at the Hammersmith Apollo, where comedians perform.

The One Train Type Solution

To my mind, there is only one solution. The two services must use the same type of trains.

These are a few thoughts on the trains.

Trains Would Be Underground-Sized

As the trains will have to work through the existing tunnels to Elephant & Castle station, the trains would have to be compatible with the tunnels and therefore sized for the Underground.

I suspect they would be a version of the New Tube for London, that are currently being built by Siemens for the Piccadilly Line.

New Tube For London And Class 710 Train Compared

These figures are from Wikipedia.

  • Cars – NTFL – 9 – 710 – 4
  • Car Length – NTFL –  12.6 metres – 710 – 20 metres
  • Train Length – NTFL – 113.4 metres – 710 – 80 metres
  • Seated Passengers – NTFL – 268 – 710 – 189
  • Total Passengers – NTFL – 1076 – 710 – 678
  • Passenger Density – NTFL – 9.5 per metre – 710 – 8.2 per metre
  • Speed – NTFL – 62 mph – 710 – 75 mph


  1. The passenger density and speed are closer than I thought they’d be.
  2. I’m sure Siemens can design a longer and faster train if required for the Euston service.

I feel that the New Tube for London could be designed, so that it could work the Watford DC service.

Platform Modifications

I suspect that the New Tube for London will be lower than the Class 710 train and all platforms would need to be lowered to fit the new trains.

I would also suspect that it would be easier to lower platforms, than modify them, so that they had dual-height sections to satisfy two classes of train.

It should be noted that the New Tube for London has shorter cars than the sixteen metre 1972 Stock trains currently used on the line, so there will be smaller gaps at stations with curved platforms like Waterloo.

I believe that with one class of train, all of the stations on the Bakerloo and Watford DC Lines could be made step-free between train and platform.

Queen’s Park And Euston

This map from, shows the route between Queen’s Park and Euston stations.


  1. The Watford DC Line is shown in orange.
  2. Queen’s Park station is to the West of Kilburn High Road station.
  3. It appears that Watford DC Line trains always use Platform 9 at Euston station.

The route seems to be a self-contained third-rail electrified line into Euston station.

On the subject of electrification between Queen’s Park and Euston stations, there would appear to be a choice between the third-rail system and London Underground’s four-rail system.

But it is rumoured that the New Tube for London will have a battery capability.

As Euston and Queen’s Park stations are only 3.7 miles apart, perhaps the choice would be to use battery power into Euston station, which would remove electrified rails from Euston?

How Many Trains Could Run Into Euston?

Currently, four trains per hour run into Euston.

It is generally accepted that six tph can use a single platform. But would this be enough?

I suppose there is the possibility of tunnelling under Euston station to a pair of terminal platforms.

In that case the current platform could be used by other services.

Southern’s Milton Keynes And Clapham Junction Service

This service wouldn’t be affected as it uses the fast lines between Willesden and Watford.


A common fleet used by the Bakerloo and Watford DC Line would appear to give advantages.

But what the Bakerloo Line, the Watford DC Line and the Bakerloo Line Extension need is a good dose of holistic design.





November 4, 2021 - Posted by | Design, Transport/Travel | , , , , , ,


  1. I thought they used to run Bakerloo to Watford and almost certainly beyond Queen’s park. IIRC the voltage changes from +420V and -210V on the third and fourth rails to third rail DC at 630/750V

    Comment by R. Mark Clayton | November 4, 2021 | Reply

    • I would envisage that tracks would be four rail, where electrified and would probably use battery power at both ends. Siemens or TfL have said that the new trains will have batteries for traction and regenerative braki8ng.

      Comment by AnonW | November 4, 2021 | Reply

  2. To reduce the platform gap due to the sharp bends in the platforms you could use shorter articulated carriages. The carriages could be half the length which would give the same number of bogies for the same length train. There is no reason why the existing carriage design could not be used.

    Comment by Ben | November 4, 2021 | Reply

  3. Yes, when I lived in London it was part of the Bakerloo – see this link (incorrectly entitled 1900 London Tube Map!)

    Comment by Ian Budd | November 4, 2021 | Reply

  4. Siemens press release said…. “The new trains feature regenerative braking capability and cutting-edge traction systems using low-loss permanent magnet motors and auxiliary electric systems that feature silicon carbide technology, as well as Lithium Ion batteries.”
    That does not indicate the battery forms part of the traction package it is just as likely to mean the replacement of the lead-acid batteries used for the auxiliaries by Lithium ion ones. Any regenerated power would be returned to the supply network.

    Comment by fammorris | November 4, 2021 | Reply

  5. Honestly, Watford DC should be taken over by an extended East London Line and Bakerloo cut back to Queen Park. Would be far easier to serve the northern section with Overground trains and an expanded QP depot and new depot at Lewisham could handle the line.

    Comment by angelmoon117 | November 4, 2021 | Reply

    • The issue is the main depot on the Bakerloo is part way up the Watford DC Line, at Stonebridge Park.

      Comment by A Trainspotter From Berkshire | January 27, 2023 | Reply

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