The Anonymous Widower

High Speed Two To Liverpool

There has been a lot of speculation about the Northern end of High Speed Two, so I might as well add sort out a few facts and add a bit of  speculation of my own.

The Current Liverpool Service

I shall look at the 08:43 train on the 18th September 2023.

• It was a nine-car Class 390 train or Pendolino, which left on time.
• Euston and Liverpool Lime Street are 193.7 miles apart.
• The train called at Milton Keynes Central, Crewe and Runcorn
• The train arrived at Crewe at 10:24 and left at 10:26.
• The train arrived at Runcorn at 10:43 and left at 10:44.
• The train arrived at Liverpool Lime Street at 11:04 on time.
• The journey took two hours and 21 minutes
• The average speed was 82.4 mph.
• The Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street section is 39.7 miles and the train is scheduled to take forty minutes.
• The average speed between Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street is almost exactly 60 mph.
• The slower average speed is because the train is slowing for a gradual stop in Liverpool and the only fast section is the 110 mph section between Crewe and Weaver Junction, where the Liverpool Branch leaves the West Coast Main Line.
• There is one train per hour (tph).

There are probably only limited ways that time can be saved between Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street.

• The West Coast Main Line between Crewe and Weaver Junction takes twelve minutes and has an operating speed of 110 mph, so saving a few minutes might be possible, by upgrading the speed on this line with digital signalling to allow 140 mph running.
• It might be possible to save a couple of minutes at the Runcorn stop by using the superior performance of the new Class 807 or High Speed Two trains.
• The slowing down into and accelerating out of Liverpool might be improved by digital signalling and trains with better performance.

It should be noted that Liverpool Lime Street station was recently remodelled to improve operation of the station and the tracks connecting it to Runcorn.

I would be fairly sure that Network Rail and Avanti West Coast have got Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street times to a minimum. As this route will become part of High Speed Two, I suspect that Network Rail/Avanti have done extensive computer simulations of the route, to make sure they get it as quick and efficient as possible.

The New Class 807 Trains

The Class 807 trains, which enter service this year or early next, are the Lotuses in Hitachi’s AT 300 family of high speed trains.

• They are electric only and have no heavy diesel engines or traction batteries.
• They don’t even have emergency batteries for when the catenary fails.
• They have a redesigned nose. Is it more aerodynamic?
• As with all the other Hitachi high speed trains, they are capable of 125 mph, or 140 mph if the signalling permits.

These trains will undoubtedly have faster acceleration and deceleration and could probably knock minutes off the timings at all the stops.

A Second Hourly Train To Liverpool

Tucked away beside the Grand Union Sets Out Stirling Ambitions article in the December 2022 Edition of Modern Railways is a report on Avanti West Coast’s application for a second service between Euston and Liverpool.

This is said.

Avanti West Coast has applied for access rights for its second hourly Euston to Liverpool service, starting from December 2023, although a phased introduction of the new service is likely. This would make use of Avanti’s new fleet of 10×7-car Class 807 Hitachi EMUs, which are expected to enter service from Autumn 2023. The ‘807s’ would be deployed on the current hourly Liverpool service, on which a call at Liverpool South Parkway would be added. (provision is made for this in the December 2022 timetable.).

Pendolinos would then operate the second service each hour, calling at Lichfield Trent Valley and Tamworth.

A linespeed project is in progress to raise the permissible speed for non-tilting trains on the West Coast Main Line, and Avanti’s new Hitachi trains will take advantage of this.

Note.

1. The current Liverpool service stops at Milton Keynes Central, Crewe and Runcorn.
2. Liverpool South Parkway station is too short for the longest Pendolinos or Class 390/1 trains.
3. When the second service is implemented will it stop at Milton Keynes Central, Crewe, Runcorn and Liverpool South Parkway?
4. Will the Pendolinos only stop at Lichfield Trent Valley and Tamworth?

Will Avanti West Coast use the trains to take advantage of their strengths?

• The new lighter Class 807 trains will use their superior acceleration and deceleration to  execute fast stops at more stations.
• The shorter Class 807 trains will call at Liverpool South Parkway.
• The current Pendolinos will use their tilt to run as fast as possible between London Euston and Liverpool.

I also suspect that Avanti West Coast will adjust the stopping pattern to attract passengers. I read somewhere, that a stop at Nuneaton to connect to Leicester, Peterborough, Cambridge and Stansted Airport, was a possibility.

More Details Of A Second Hourly Train To Liverpool – 30th September 2023.

Real Time Trains is now showing the details of the second service between London Euston and Liverpool.

These are the future timings of the 09:13 train from Liverpool.

• Liverpool – Leave at 09:13
• Runcorn – Arrive at 09:28 and leave at 09:29½
• Crewe – Arrive at 09:49 and leave at 09:56
• Stafford – Arrive at 10:14½ and leave at 10:16½
• Lichfield Trent Valley – Arrive at 10:29½ and leave at 10:31½
• Tamworth – Arrive at 10:36½ and leave at 10:38½
• Nuneaton – Arrive at 10:49 and leave at 10:51
• Milton Keynes Central – Arrive at 11:21 and leave at 11:23
• Euston – Arrive at 11.59

Note.

1. This service has not been activated yet.
2. It is pathed for a Class 80x train.
3. There are seven stops.
4. It will take two hours and 46 minutes.
5. Liverpool and Crewe will take 36 minutes.
6. There are two other inactivated services like this running through Birmingham and Northampton.

Could these services have  been timetabled to test connectivity?

High Speed Two Classic Compatible Trains

These High Speed Two Classic Compatible trains are to be built for High Speed Two.

• They will be able to run on both High Speed Two and current high speed lines like the East Coast Main Line and the West Coast Main Line.
• They will have an operating speed of 205 mph on High Speed Two.
• They will be able to operate at appropriate speeds on existing high speed lines. Typically, that is 125 mph, but with full digital signalling that is 140 mph.
• They are two hundred metres long and are sixty metres shorter than an eleven-car Pendolino.
• They are being built by a Hitachi-Alstom joint venture.

This document on the Government web site is the Train Technical Specification for High Speed Two Classic-Compatible Trains.

Introducing The High Speed Two Classic Compatible Trains Into Service

Consider.

• London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street services can be run by eleven-car Pendolinos.
• It looks like after the introduction of the second service between London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street is introduced, it will be run by Pendolinos and it could be a two-stop service.
• The High Speed Two Classic Compatible trains should be able to run any service currently run by an eleven-car Pendolino.

So will Avanti West Coast use this second hourly London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street service to introduce the new High Speed Two Classic Compatible trains into public service?

• It would make sure the trains and existing track and signals were fully debugged.
• It would inform the public that High Speed Two is on its way.
• It would be good marketing for High Speed Two.
• They might shave a few minutes off journey times.
• It could use all the existing infrastructure.
• It will provide work for Alstom in Derby.

I feel Avanti West Coast just might!

London Euston And Liverpool Lime Street Before Phase 2a Of High Speed Two Opens

According to the Wikipedia entry for High Speed Two, these are the fastest timings.

• London Euston and Crewe – One hour and 30 minutes
• London Euston and Runcorn – One hour and 53 minutes
• London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street – Two hours and 3 minutes

Currently, the fastest London and Liverpool Lime Street trains take two hours and 21 minutes, so are the Class 807 trains going to be eighteen minutes faster?

From these figures and the times of the 0843, I can deduce these journey times.

• Currently, Crewe and Runcorn takes 17 minutes and the Class 807 train will take 23 minutes
• Currently, Runcorn and Liverpool Lime Street takes 20 minutes and the Class 807 train will take 10 minutes
• Currently, Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street takes 38 minutes and the Class 807 train will take 33 minutes

It looks like there may be slight problems with Wikipedia’s figures. But they were published before Avanti West Coast had run a Class 807 train between Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street. I think we’ll have to wait and see what turns up on Saturday, the 9th of December 2023, when the timetables change.

But I do feel now that the Class 807 trains will achieve London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street in two hours and three minutes.

London Euston And Liverpool Lime Street After Phase 2a Of High Speed Two Opens

According to the Wikipedia entry for High Speed Two, these are the timings.

• London Euston and Crewe – 56 minutes
• London Euston and Runcorn – One hour and 14 minutes
• London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street – One hour and 32 minutes

From these figures and the times of the 0843, I can deduce these journey times.

• Currently, Crewe and Runcorn takes 17 minutes and High Speed Two will take 18 minutes
• Currently, Runcorn and Liverpool Lime Street takes 20 minutes and High Speed Two will take 18 minutes
• Currently, Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street takes 38 minutes and High Speed Two will take 36 minutes

There doesn’t seem to be much of a saving between today’s Pendolino and High Speed Two between Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street.

Could it be that the work to improve Liverpool Lime Street station and its approaches a few years ago sorted out a lot of problems and Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street is now almost to the standard needed for High Speed Two?

If savings are made anywhere by High Speed Two, it could be between Runcorn and Liverpool Lime Street.

Looking at the operating speeds on OpenRailwayMap, there appears to be a 30 mph section of track for a couple of miles out of Liverpool Lime Street, which includes a sharp curve.

This Google Map shows the approaches to Lime Street station.

Note.

1. The tracks across the top of the map are the main electrified Liverpool and Manchester tracks.
2. The building in the middle is Alstom Traincare’s Liverpool Depot.
3. The line to Runcorn enters the map in the South-East corner and curves around the depot to join the tracks into Lime Street station.
4. The operating speed gradually reduces from 30 mph on this map to less than 15 mph in Lime Street station.

Perhaps, this 30 mph section is to be improved to gain the couple of minutes.

I also think, that savings could be possible at Runcorn station.

If when the second service starts, the Pendolinos don’t stop at Runcorn, that would save a few minutes.

The Class 807 and the High Speed Two Classic Compatible trains with their superior acceleration and deceleration could save a couple of minutes in the stop at Runcorn.

I very much feel that as the Pendolinos manage to achieve Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street in 38 minutes, that Pendolinos on the second service, Class 807 and the High Speed Two Classic Compatible trains, will all manage 36 minutes or less on the route.

London Euston And Liverpool Lime Street After Phase 2b Of High Speed Two Opens

There will be no changes as the full-size High Speed Two trains are not planned to run into Liverpool Lime Street.

Conclusion

It looks to me, that the Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street leg of High Speed Two is more or less complete.

Times between London and Liverpool will be as follows.

• Before High Speed Two Phase 2a – 2 hours and 3 minutes
• After High Speed Two Phase 2a – 1 hour and 32 minutes
• After High Speed Two Phase 2b – 1 hour and 32 minutes

I believe that for many this will be fast enough, especially as it’s nearly complete.

See Also

Could High Speed Two Finish At Lichfield?

High Speed Two To Crewe

High Speed Two To Holyhead

High Speed Two To Lancaster

High Speed Two To Manchester

High Speed Two To Stoke-on-Trent

High Speed Two To Wigan

September 20, 2023 - Posted by AnonW | Transport/Travel | Avanti West Coast, Class 390 Train, Class 807 Train, Euston Station, High Speed Two, High Speed Two Classic-Compatible Trains, High Speed Two Lite, Liverpool Lime Street Station, Network Rail, West Coast Main Line