The Anonymous Widower

High Speed Two To Manchester

There has been a lot of speculation about the Northern end of High Speed Two, so I might as well add sort out a few facts and add a bit of speculation of my own.

The Current Manchester Piccadilly Services

Currently, there are three trains per hour (tph) between London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly.

The services stop as follows.

• Milton Keynes Central, Rugby, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield and Stockport
• Nuneaton, Stoke-on-Trent and Stockport
• Stafford, Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport

Note.

1. One service goes via Crewe.
2. Two services go via Stoke-on-Trent.
3. All services go via Stockport.
4. A London and Manchester Piccadilly train could go via Milton Keynes Central, Nuneaton, Rugby, Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield and Stockport.
5. A London and Manchester Piccadilly train could go via Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport.

The two trains detailed would mean that Manchester wouldn’t lose any connectivity.

I would expect that Manchester Piccadilly needs at least three tph to and from London.

This graphic shows High Speed Two services after Phase 2b is completed.

Note.

1. Services shown in blue are run by High Speed Two Full Size trains.
2. Services shown in yellow are run by High Speed Two Classic-Compatible  trains.
3. Full Size Services will only run to Manchester Airport and Manchester Piccadilly  after Phase 2b is completed to Manchester Piccadilly.
4. Classic-Compatible Services will be able to run to to Manchester Piccadilly after Phase 2a is completed.
5. Two London and Manchester Piccadilly trains will call at just Old Oak Common and Manchester Airport.
6. A third London and Manchester Piccadilly train will call at Old Oak Common, Birmingham International and Manchester Airport.
7. Two Birmingham Curzon Street and Manchester Piccadilly trains will call at just Manchester Airport.
8. Despite Wilmslow and Stockport being shown in the list of stations on the left hand side of the graphic, no High Speed Two services appear to call at the two stations.

The graphic of High Speed Two services also shows these Full-Size services to Manchester Piccadilly.

• Three tph to London Euston
• Two tph to Birmingham Curzon Street

Some or all of these services will surely be run by High Speed Two Classic-Compatible  trains.

What services will run to Manchester between the opening of Phase 2a and the opening of Phase 2b?

I will now give some possibilities for services.

London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Crewe, Wilmslow And Stockport

I shall look at the 07:33 train to Manchester Piccadilly on the 20th September 2023.

• It was a service via Stafford, Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport
• It was a nine-car Class 390 train or Pendolino, which left on time.
• Euston and Manchester Piccadilly are 188.9 miles apart.
• The train called at Crewe at 09:08 and left at 09:10.
• The average speed between London Euston and Crewe is 70.7 mph.
• The train arrived in Manchester Piccadilly on time at 09:44.
• The journey took two hours and 11 minutes
• The average speed was 86.5 mph.
• The Crewe and Manchester Piccadilly section is 30.9 miles and the train is scheduled to take 34 minutes.
• The average speed between Crewe and Manchester Piccadilly is 54.5 mph.
• The example train slows past Crewe because of two stops at Wilmslow and Stockport.

When Phase 2a of High Speed Two opens a replacement for this service via Crewe, could operate as follows.

• It could use High Speed Two between and Crewe.
• It could use the current route between Crewe and Manchester Piccadilly.
• It would probably use a 200 metre long High Speed Two Classic-Compatible trains.
• I wouldn’t be surprised, that the current Pendolino service between Euston and Manchester Piccadilly via Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport was retired.
• The new High Speed Two service could take over the path currently used by the current Pendolino service, between Crewe and Manchester Piccadilly.
• The train could stop at Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport as required.
• If it stopped at Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport, it would restore some of the connectivity to smaller places.

According to the Wikipedia entry for High Speed Two, these will be the timings.

• London Euston and Crewe – 56 minutes
• London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly Phase 2a – One hour and 30 minutes
• London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly Phase 2b – One hour and 11 minutes

From these figures and the times of the 07:33, I can deduce these journey times for trains via Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport.

• Currently, Crewe and Manchester Piccadilly takes 34 minutes.
• High Speed Two after Phase 2a will also take 34 minutes.

I am surprised that sectional timings on this section of the West Coast Main Line are the same as current timings. Digital signalling and the faster acceleration and deceleration of the new trains, are quite likely to decrease times.

Because they are both 34 minutes, does that mean that services will stop at Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport?

London and Macclesfield Via Stafford And Stoke-on-Trent

This map of High Speed Two in North West England was captured from the interactive map on the High Speed Two web site.

Note.

1. The map dates from around October 2020.
2. The current West Coast Main Line (WCML) and Phase 2a of High Speed Two are shown in blue.
3. Phase 2b of High Speed Two is shown in orange.
4. The main North-South route, which is shown in blue, is the WCML passing through Crewe, Warrington Bank Quay and Wigan North Western as it goes North.
5. The Western Branch, which is shown in blue, is the Liverpool Branch of the WCML, which serves Runcorn and Liverpool.
6. High Speed Two, which is shown in orange, takes a faster route between Crewe and Wigan North Western.
7. The Eastern Branch, which is shown in orange, is the Manchester Branch of High Speed Two, which serves Manchester Airport and Manchester Piccadilly.
8. The route in the East, which is shown in blue, is the Macclesfield Branch of High Speed Two, which serves Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent and Macclesfield.

The route of Northern Powerhouse Rail between Manchester Airport and Liverpool has still to be finalised.

The London and Macclesfield service is as follows.

• There will be one tph
• There are intermediate stops at Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent.
• Macclesfield has a long electrified bay platform, which looks like it will take a 200 m High Speed Two Classic-Compatible train.
• Macclesfield Station And High Speed Two has pictures of the station.
• Four tph operate between Stoke-on-Trent and Manchester Piccadilly via Macclesfield.
• Timings from London would be 55 minutes to Stafford, 70 minutes to Stoke-on-Trent and 90 minutes to Macclesfield.

In some ways, I was surprised about this High Speed Two service.

But it does give an easy connection to Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent.

London and Manchester Piccadilly via Macclesfield, Stafford And Stoke-on-Trent

Currently, Avanti West Coast run a service between London and Manchester which runs as follows.

• It calls at Milton Keynes Central, Rugby, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield and Stockport
• It also passes through Watford Junction, Nuneaton, Tamworth and Lichfield Trent Valley.
• It could pass through Stafford.
• It would mean that Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent were served by 2 tph.
• It is run by a Pendolino.
• It has a frequency of 1 tph.
• The current service takes two hours and 6 minutes.
• A few minutes would be added for each extra stop.

I believe it could be a very useful service.

I wonder if it could be run as a complimentary service to High Speed Two to serve more places on the route.

A Second High Speed Two Service Between London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Crewe, Wilmslow And Stockport

So far, I have mapped out three possible services.

• High Speed Two – London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Crewe, Wilmslow And Stockport – One hour and thirty minutes
• High Speed Two – London and Macclesfield Via Stafford and Stoke – One hour and thirty minutes
• Pendolino – London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Milton Keynes Central, Rugby, Nuneaton, Tamworth, Lichfield Trent Valley, Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield and Stockport – Two hours and 6 minutes plus 4 minutes for each extra stop.

I suspect that four tph could be a good frequency.

The simplest extra service would probably be another High Speed Two London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Crewe, Wilmslow And Stockport.

But it could be another Pendolino service to serve more places.

I believe a service pattern could be arranged with these features.

• Major cities and towns between London and Manchester have at least two tph.
• A larger number of towns and cities have at least one tph.

Note that many stations on the route already have Pendolino services.

Phase 2b Would Be The Ultimate Solution

Phase 2b which will involve a tunnel via Manchester Airport to new platforms in Manchester Piccadilly could be the ultimate solution.

Phase 2b is also needed so that full-size High Speed Two trains can be run to Manchester Piccadilly.

But it will be difficult, expensive and disruptive to build.

Conclusion

I believe it could be easy to plan four services between London and Manchester Piccadilly or Macclesfield.

• High Speed Two Full-Size train – London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Crewe, Wilmslow And Stockport – One hour and eleven minutes
• High Speed Two Classic-Compatible train – London and Macclesfield Via Stafford and Stoke – One hour and thirty minutes
• High Speed Two Full-Size train – London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Crewe, Wilmslow And Stockport – One hour and eleven minutes
• Pendolino – London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Milton Keynes Central, Rugby, Nuneaton, Tamworth, Lichfield Trent Valley, Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield and Stockport – Two hours and 6 minutes plus 4 minutes for each extra stop.

Note.

Services 1 and 3 are identical, but don’t need to be.

Service 4 could be run by a High Speed Two Classic-Compatible train.

See Also

Could High Speed Two Finish At Lichfield?

High Speed Two To Crewe

High Speed Two To Holyhead

High Speed Two To Lancaster

High Speed Two To Liverpool

High Speed Two To Stoke-on-Trent

High Speed Two To Wigan

September 24, 2023 - Posted by AnonW | Transport/Travel | Avanti West Coast, Class 390 Train, CrossCountry Trains, High Speed Two, High Speed Two Classic-Compatible Trains, High Speed Two Full-Size Trains, High Speed Two Lite, Macclesfield Station, Manchester Piccadilly Station, Stafford Station, Stoke-on-Trent Station