Train Lengths Between King’s Cross and Edinburgh
If you ask Google, what is the platform length at King’s Cross station, you get the following answers.
- Platform 0 – 305 metres
- Platform 1 – 304 metres
- Platform 2 – 285 metres
- Platform 3 – 289 metres
- Platform 4 – 290 metres
- Platform 5 – 270 metres
- Platform 6 – 288 metres
- Platform 7 – 288 metres
- Platform 8 – 289 metres
- Platform 9 – 276 metres
- Platform 10 – 276 metres
This OpenRailwayMap shows the tracks linking to the eleven platforms at King’s Cross.
Note.
- The red tracks are the electrified platforms in King’s Cross.
- The two pink tracks are the Piccadilly Line underneath the station.
- Platform 0 is on the right and Platform 10 is on the left.
- The platform number is shown alongside the track.
Platform 0 is the newest platform, which opened in 2010 and also the longest at 305 metres.
Many of the trains using the station are Hitachi Class 800, 801, 802 and 803 trains, which have cars of the following lengths.
- Driving car – 25.85 metres
- Intermediate car – 26 metres
These lengths mean that individual trains have the following lengths.
- Five-car – 129.7 metres
- Nine-car – 233.7 metres
- Ten-car – Pair of five-cars – 259.4 metres
Note.
- It would appear that nine- and ten-car trains can use all platforms 0-8 in the main station.
- Platform 5 may be short at 270 metres, but Real Time Trains shows it can handle nine- and ten-car trains.
Real Time Trains doesn’t seem to show any nine- and ten-car trains using Platforms 9 and 10. Is the approach just a bit tight?
These are some further thoughts.
LNER’s New Class 897 Trains
I asked Google how long will be LNER’s new ten-car Class 897 trains. This is the answer I received.
The Class 897 train will be 218.7 meters (717 ft 6 in) long, according to Wikipedia. These trains will be ten-car units.
Have these trains been designed, so they can fit in Platforms 9 and 10 at King’s Cross and other shorter platforms, that LNER serve?
Other train classes, that could use Platforms 9 and 10 at King’s Cross include.
- Five-car Class 800, 801, 802 and 803 trains – 129.7 metres
- Five-car Class 180 trains – 116.52 metres
- Five-car Class 222 trains – 116.16 metres
- Six-car Class 717 trains – 121.7 metres
- Eight-car Class 379/387 trains – 163.12 metres
- Eight-car Class 700/0 trains – 162 metres
- Twelve-car Class 700/1 trains – 242.6 metres
Real Time Trains or my eyes have observed all these trains, except for the twelve-car Class 700 trains in Platforms 9 and 10 at King’s Cross.
It does appear that the shorter ten-car Class 897 trains improve utilisation of the platforms at King’s Cross station.
Could Twelve-Car Class 800, 801, 802 and 803 Trains Run Into King’s Cross?
Consider.
- LNER and Lumo have both said, they want to win passengers from the airlines on Anglo-Scottish routes.
- Extra paths on the East Coast Main Line are at a premium and hard to come by.
In Do Class 800/801/802 Trains Use Batteries For Regenerative Braking?, I found this extract in a Hitachi document on their web site.
To simplify the rearrangement and management of train configurations, functions are provided for identifying the train (Class 800/801), for automatically determining the cars in the trainset and its total length, and for coupling and uncoupling up to 12 cars in
normal and 24 cars in rescue or emergency mode.
So if say LNER or Lumo wanted a twelve-car train, it would be possible. It also looks like one twelve-car train can rescue another.
Train lengths would be as follows.
- Five-car Class 800, 801, 802 and 803 trains – 129.7 metres
- Six-car Class 800, 801, 802 and 803 trains – 155.7 metres
- Nine-car Class 800, 801, 802 and 803 trains – 233.7 metres
- Twelve-car Class 800, 801, 802 and 803 trains – 311.7 metres
- Twelve-car – Pair of six-car Class 800, 801, 802 and 803 trains – 311.4 metres
As Platform 0 is 305 metres and Platform 1 is 304 metres, I suspect that King’s Cross station could accept twelve-car formations of Hitachi Class 800, 801, 802 or 803 trains, with fairly minor modifications.
But what about other stations?
Berwick-on-Tweed
Both platforms are around 233/234 metres, so twelve-car trains couldn’t call, unless the platforms were lengthened.
Bradford Forster Square
From the pictures, that I took in Bradford Forster Square Station – 20th May 2025, of a pair of LNER five-car trains, I suspect that the new Platform 0 and the extended Platform 1 will accept twelve-car trains, or could easily be modified.
Darlington
Both platforms, where LNER call are over 350 metres long, so Darlington can handle twelve-car trains.
Doncaster
Doncaster has four long platforms and I am fairly sure, the station could be easily modified to handle twelve-car trains.
Durham
Both platforms are over 260 metres, so twelve-car trains couldn’t call, unless the platforms were substantially lengthened.
Edinburgh Waverley
Platform 5 and 6 at Edinburgh Waverley station were both lengthened to 275 metres to accept ten-car LNER trains in 2016. I suspect more lengthening will be needed.
Leeds
Platforms 8 and 11 at Leeds station are both over 320 metres, so should be long enough to accept twelve car LNER trains.
Newark Northgate
Platforms 1 and 2 at Newark Northgate station are only 133 metres. Some platform lengthening would be needed for twelve-car trains to be able to call.
Newcastle
Platforms 2, 3 and 4 at Newcastle station are 362, 304 and 268 metres respectively. I believe with small improvements, that the station could be easily modified to handle twelve-car trains.
Northallerton
Both platforms are around 261/270 metres, so twelve-car trains couldn’t call, unless the platforms were lengthened.
Peterborough
Platforms 3, 4 and 5 at Peterborough station are only 265 metres. Some platform lengthening would be needed for twelve-car trains to be able to stop.
Wakefield Westgate
Both platforms at Wakefield Westgate station are only 255 metres. Some platform lengthening would be needed for twelve-car trains to be able to stop.
York
Four platforms at York station are over 315 metres.
Could A Twelve-Car Class 800, 801, 802 and 803 Trains Run Between King’s Cross And Edinburgh?
This would surely be the ultimate competition for the airlines.
Consider.
- It would use a single twelve-car Hitachi train or a pair of six-car trains.
- It could be fitted with batteries, so it could use the Great Northern and Great Eastern Joint Line diversion, through Lincoln, when there is engineering works or overhead wiring troubles.
- It would use either Platform 0 or Platform 1 at King’s Cross.
- It would use a lengthened platform at Edinburgh.
- Peterborough, Doncaster, York, Darlington and Newcastle could be possible stops.
- I estimate an LNER layout would carry 696 Standard Class and 86 First Class passengers.
- I estimate that a Lumo layout would carry 965 Standard Class passengers.
Note that an Airbus A321neo single-aislr airliner can carry 244 passengers.
Did Plans For Crossrail Ever Include A Station At Holborn?
I have only one North-South bus route, where I live.
The 141 bus connects Palmers Green and London Bridge station.
- The 141 bus was the replacement for the 641 trolley bus, which was the main link between Wood Green, Turnpike Lane and Harringay, and the City of London, when I was a child.
- The vehicles are up to ten years old Wrightbus diesel hybrids.
- The route suffers badly from overcrowding as it connects, Bank and Moorgate stations in the City of London, with the outer reaches of the Piccadilly Line.
The overcrowding on the 141 bus route has got worse in the last couple of years because of the following.
- The rebuilding of London Bridge station brought more passengers to the 141 bus route.
- The opening of the new London Bridge bus station at London Bridge station has improved access to the buses at London Bridge station.
- The improvement of the connection of the buses to the Docklands Light Railway, Central Line and Northern Line at Bank station.
- The opening of the Battersea branch of the Northern Line, which brings more passengers to Bank station.
- The opening of the new Cannon Street entrance to Bank Underground station.
- The opening of the Elizabeth Line through Moorgate station.
- Recently, a new walking route between Moorgate and Liverpool Street was opened, which will bring more passengers to the buses on Moorgate.
- The rebuilding of Old Street station brought more passengers to the 141 bus route.
So what was the response of the Mayor and Transport for London, to all this increase of passenger numbers?
The 21 bus, which shadowed the 141 route, and doubled the number of buses through where I live, was moved to serve Holloway.
It was a big crime against mathematics and the wishes of our long-serving Labour MP; Meg Hillier.
So to handle many more passengers between London Bridge station and Newington Green through the City of London, the number of buses was halved.
I believe that the overcrowding will get worse because of the improvements, that Transport for London have planned.
- The Piccadilly Line will be getting new air-conditioned trains within a couple of years and these will inevitably attract more passengers to the line.
- On the other hand the air-conditioning may persuade passengers to use the Piccadilly Line more than they do now. Instead of changing to the 141 bus at Manor House station, passengers could change at Finsbury Park, King’s Cross St. Pancras or Holborn stations for other routes to the City of London.
- The third line to receive the new air-conditioned trains will probably be the Central Line, which would create another East-West air-conditioned line and bring more passengers to Bank station.
- The Central Line could give some relief for the buses through Bank, if an extra station was built on the Central Line to interchange with Shoreditch High Street station on the East London Line of the London Overground.
- The fourth line to receive the new air-conditioned trains will probably be the Waterloo and City Line, which would create another air-conditioned line and bring more passengers to Bank station.
- It is likely, that more services will be added to the Elizabeth Line, which will bring more passengers to Moorgate station.
- It is likely, that more services will be added to the Northern City Line, which will bring more passengers to Moorgate station.
- The Mayor is also planning to pedestrianise Oxford Street, which may fill up the Central Line with extra passengers.
It looks to me, that there will be a need for a large increase of bus capacity through the City of London on a North-South axis.
On the other hand, the City of London have stated that they will pedestrianise many of their streets.
So what can be done to avoid gridlock in the City of London?
Develop The Northern City Line At Moorgate
I use this route regularly to and from Moorgate station.
- It already has new Class 717 air-conditioned trains.
- The route is already digitally signalled in conjunction with the East Coast Digital Programme.
- It has two platforms at Moorgate station.
- Highbury & Islington station has interchanges with the Victoria Line and the North and East London Lines of the London Overground.
- Finsbury Park station has interchanges with the Victoria Line and National Rail services.
- Bowes Park station has an out of station interchange with Bounds Green station on the Piccadilly Line.
- Step-free access needs improving.
- The Victorians had plans to extend the line to Lothbury near Bank station.
If the Northern City Line could handle more passengers, would passengers get to all parts of the City of London by changing at Finsbury Park and walking from Moorgate or Old Street stations?
I regularly go between my house and Moorgate, by taking a bus to Essex Road station and using the Northern City Line.
I believe that with improvements on the Northern City Line, the line could be turned into a very valuable part of London’s rail infrastructure.
Connect The Central Line And The East London Line At Shoreditch High Street Station
I wrote about this proposal in Will Shoreditch High Street Be Connected To The Central Line?
The Elizabeth Line needed to be completed before this could be started.
Build The Western Extension Of The Docklands Light Railway
I wrote about this proposal in The Bank Station Upgrade And The Western Extension Of The DLR.
Rebuild Holborn Station
The interchange between Piccadilly and Central Line at Holborn station is difficult to say the least.
Holborn station is being extended with a new entrance. As with Euston, I suspect it has been designed with a feasible place for DLR platforms to be added.
This document on the TfL web site, gives more details of what is proposed at Holborn station.
I extracted this visualisation of the proposed station.
This map from carto.metro.free.fr shows the lines in the through and around the station.
.Note, the Elizabeth Line, which is shown by dotted lines passes to the North of the station.
Conclusion
Not all these improvements need to be done, but each would improve transport in the City of London.
Silvertown Tunnel Easing Congestion, TfL Says
The title of this post, is the same as that of this article on the BBC.
This is the sub-heading.
Transport for London (TfL) has shared the first insights about the impact on traffic of the new Silvertown Tunnel, as part of commissioner Andy Lord’s latest report to the TfL Board.
These two initial paragraphs gives a summary of about three weeks traffic.
Analysis of data between 21 April and 11 May shows the Silvertown and Blackwall tunnels are being used by an average of about 88,000 vehicles on a typical weekday. Of these, about 20,000 are using the Silvertown Tunnel.
Before the tunnel opened on 7 April, about 100,000 vehicles used the Blackwall Tunnel on weekdays.
TfL are claiming that this 12,000 drop in traffic is helping to ease congestion.
Logically, a drop in traffic will ease congestion, but the BBC article also says this.
However, it said it was aware of some increased traffic volumes at other river crossings, including the Woolwich Ferry.
The only other river crossings in the area are the Rotherhithe Tunnel and the Woolwich Ferry, both of which are free to all users.
So is the drop in traffic through the Blackwall and Silvertown Tunnels, due to drivers objecting to paying a toll and taking a free route instead?
On The Buses
The BBC article says this about bus passengers.
Mr Lord’s report also provided ridership data about the three bus services that operate through both tunnels: the new Superloop SL4, the extended route 129 and the 108, which already ran through the Blackwall Tunnel before 7 April.
Across the routes there is a daily average of more than 20,000 passengers making use of these services, of which typically about 7,000 are crossing the river using one of the two tunnels. In March 2025, there were about 2,700 crossings a day made using route 108.
The increase in bus passengers is not surprising.
Before the opening of the Silvertown Tunnel, there was just this bus service through the Blackwall Tunnel.
- London Bus 108 – Stratford and Lewisham via North Greenwich.
This has now been joined by, these bus services through the Silvertown Tunnel.
- London Bus 129 – Great Eastern Quay and Lewisham via City Airport and North Greenwich.
- London Bus SL4 – Canary Wharf and Grove Park via East India, Blackheath and Lee.
Note how the buses call at rail stations, an airport and other important traffic interchanges.
In Could The Silvertown Tunnel Handle More Buses?, I asked if buses through the Silvertown Tunnel should be increased?
Given that traffic through the combined Silvertown/Blackwall complex has dropped by 12,000 vehicles per day, that must leave space for a few buses or coaches.
- Assuming, that one bus or coach takes up the space of four cars, that would be space for 3,000 buses/coaches per day.
- Also assuming the bus and coach services are run on a twenty-four hour basis, that would be 125 buses/coaches per hour.
If the bus and coach services ran every ten minutes, that would say, there is space in the tunnel for up to a dozen new bus or coach routes.
There could develop a virtuous circle and feedback loop, which drives the tunnel to a state of equilibrium, where traffic grows through the tunnels, until it is maximised.
Consider.
- Research shows a bus route from A to B through the tunnel would attract passengers.
- Drivers and their passengers decide that on balance a bus ride is more convenient, no slower and more affordable than driving.
- Congestion charges and other charges for non-electric vehicles will play their part.
- Green issues will also will play their part.
- Fewer cars will use the tunnels.
- Increasing tunnel charges will only drive more car users to the buses.
- More free space in the tunnel, will allow more bus and coach routes.
- More bus and coach routes will attract drivers from their cars.
Eventually, equilibrium will be reached.
A similar effect happens, when a new bypass is opened and as if by magic it fills up.
When it happens with train services I call it, London Overground Syndrome.
On Your Bike
The BBC article says this about cyclists.
There is also a cycle shuttle service, enabling cyclists to take their bikes free of charge on a bus through the Silvertown Tunnel. TfL said some 100-150 people were using it on a typical day.
While this is below its capacity, TfL believes usage will grow as cyclists adapt their routes to benefit from this safer crossing option.
When I used to cycle around London in the 1970s, I never cycled under the Thames, but I did generally cycle as fast as I could across the city. I wouldn’t have put my bicycle on a free bus.
So, is this why the cycle shuttle service is below capacity?
The BBC article says this.
TfL believes usage will grow as cyclists adapt their routes to benefit from this safer crossing option.
I believe, that if TfL should ever charge for the cycle shuttle service, they’d kill it.
In my opinion, they’d be better off providing secure bike parking, but even some of that seems lightly used.
Tunnel Performance
The BBC article says this about tunnel charging and performance.
TfL said it intended to publish quarterly factsheets on the operational performance of the tunnels’ toll scheme.
This will include information about how many people pay the charge, the compliance rates for vehicles using the tunnels and the number of Penalty Charge Notices that are issued.
The first of these factsheets will be published later this year, but initial data shows that compliance has steadily increased, with about 90% of motorists either paying a charge or benefiting from an exemption.
Surprisingly, so far, I haven’t met anybody who has driven through the Silvertown Tunnel, except for a couple of bus drivers.
The Anonymous Widower 