Crystal Palace Subway – 1st December 2024
This is the sub-heading on the Crystal Palace Subway web site.
The Grade II* listed Crystal Palace Subway is a beautifully designed and crafted relic of Victorian construction, built to provide access to the Crystal Palace for first-class rail passengers. In September 2024 a major restoration project was completed, just in time for its 160th anniversary in 2025.
These two paragraphs outline the relationship of the two stations at Crystal Palace.
The Palace was originally served by two railway stations: Crystal Palace Low Level station (still in use), which opened in 1854, and the High Level Station, designed by Charles Barry Junior, which opened in 1865 on the western side of Crystal Palace Parade.
It was intended that first-class passengers should enter the Palace through groined arches of coloured brick and stone, leading to a vestibule roofed with glass and iron, the grandeur of which was considered a fitting approach to the Crystal Palace.
These pictures give a flavour of the current Crystal Palace station.
Note.
- It is served by both Southern and London Overground services.
- The station has several good lifts.
- There are toilets in the station by the gate line.
- The station is in excellent condition.
- The cafe in the station has a good reputation and I’ve used it several times.
If like me today, you are going up the hill to the bus station, Crystal Palace Parade or Crystal Palace Subway, there is a convenient bus stop on the other side of the road from the station. Any bus going to Crystal Palace should do.
These pictures document my visit to the Crystal Palace Subway.
Note.
- Some of the ie Trams were running.
- The people were turning up.
- The restoration is top class.
And all despite the weather.
London’s New Tram-Like Buses Come Into Service
The title of this post, is the same as that of this article on the BBC.
I went to Orpington station and all I saw was several small diesel single-decker buses running around in the awful cold.
So I retreated on a warm train after a couple of hours.
One driver said that the reams were running and she looked genuinely disappointed, that they hadn’t turned up.
But from my knowledge of electric vehicles, although not Irizar ie Trams, I do wonder if the single-figure temperatures in Orpington had drained the batteries.
But I can’t imagine a company like Irizar making a mistake like that.
Although one of the station men said that Orpington can get to be a very cold station. Now that is something I’ll agree with!
In the other hand the 358 route takes an hour from end to end, so in my opinion, it might have been better to use hydrogen-powered buses.
The Crystal Palace Bus Charger – 19th September 2023
I went to see the new charger at Crystal Palace for the new Irizar ie trams that will be introduced on route 358.
I took these pictures.
Note.
- It is not finished yet or someone has nicked the pantograph.
- Irizar seem to make their own chargers.
- It looks a well-designed installation.
This Spanish video shows the bus inside and outside.
I have a few thoughts.
The Specification Of The Bus
This document on the Irizar web site is the specification of the ie trams, that London are buying.
Passenger Capacity
According to the specification, these twelve metre long buses have a capacity of 97-99 passengers, with 21-28 seated, depending on layout.
Is that a bit tight? Especially, if people are carrying large cases.
Climbing Anerley Hill
I wonder how these buses will manage to climb Anerley Hill.
- This page on a cycling blog, rates the hill as the fourth stiffest in London.
- A typical Wrightbus or AlexanderDennis single-decker diesel bus has a kerb weight of 13-14 tonnes.
- The ie tram gives maximum front and rear axle loadings which total 21.2 tonnes. But that includes the passengers, which at 60 Kg each account for a lot of the difference in weight with the diesel buses.
- Anerley Hill has a rise of upwards of 30 metres.
Using Omni’s Potential Energy Calculator gives a figure of less than 2 KWh of energy needed to get up the hill.
That should be possible!
News Of The Bus
But there has been very little news on the Internet of these buses and their chargers, with the last story dated a year ago. Given Sadiq Khan’s love of publicity, does that mean anything?
Conclusion
It seems that Irizar have pulled out all the stops in the design of this bus.
Could The Pantograph Make A Return To London’s Buses?
The title of this post, is the same as that of this article on Ian Visits.
Reading Ian’s article, the plan is for the 358 bus route to be converted into an electric bus route, where the buses are charged at both ends of the route during the turn round.
The Feasibility Of A Battery-Electric Route 358
This morning, I took a train to Crystal Palace station and then took a 358 bus to Orpington station before coming home.
These were my thoughts.
Crystal Palace Parade
The buses actually leave from Crystal Palace Parade where there are several bus stops in a bus station.
This Google Map shows the bus station.
I also took these pictures.
Note.
- There is certainly a lot of space to put a charger.
- As there is the main Crystal Palace television transmitter close by, I suspect that power is not a problem.
There didn’t appear to be any sign of work relating to a charger.
Orpington Station
This Google Map shows Orpington station.
Note.
- The bus station is on the East side of the station.
- Buses are lined up at the Northern end of the bus station.
- Orpington station is step-free.
I took these pictures.
As at Crystal Palace there appeared to be no work in progress to install a charger.
The Route
The route is mainly flat with hills or inclines at the following places.
- There is a steep hill up to Crystal Palace Parade.
- There are hills at Bromley and Farnborough.
- There is a steep incline up to Orpington station.
At times, the bus was running at just under forty mph.
I suspect that Transport for London will have to be careful with specifying the battery size.
The Buses
This is the ie tram product page on the Irizar web site.
This is a video of the twelve metre ie tram.
It looks rather smart and purposeful.
The Charger
The image on Ian Visits could be one of Furrer + Frey’s chargers shown in this doocument on their web site.
Conclusion
It looks a viable zero-carbon bus route, but as no work is visible, has it been cancelled because of TfL’s financial problems?
From Balham To West Croydon
This series of pictures show the first part of a journey I took to get to Leatherhead station from Balham station.
Note.
- The Victoria end of the Brighton Main Line going South from Balham.
- The simple nature of some stations like West Norwood and Gipsy Hill.
- Sainsburys 5p orange bags are everywhere. All others are crap!
- Bromley Junction and how the route crosses the London Bridge end of the Brighton Main Line to the North of Norwood Junction station.
This map from carto.metro.free.fr shows the route from Balham to Norwood Junction (Just off map!) via Streatham Hill, West Norwood, Gypsy Hill and Crystal Palace.
Balham To Norwood Junction
Note how the Brighton Main Line goes South from Balham via Streatham Common and Norbury.
There certainly seems to be a lot of space for more development of the railway and/or housing.
The New Roof At Crystal Palace Station
In August 2010, I wrote A Day At Crystal Palace, after a visit to Selhurst Park to see Ipswich play. I took this picture of Crystal Palace station.
East London Line Platforms at Crystal Palace
Now compare it with these I took today.
As you can see, they’ve now fitted a roof.
I like it.
Increased Frequencies On The East London Line
This article from the South London Press is entitled More Trains For The London Overground. The article says Transport for London (TfL) wants to make two service improvements are on the East London Line.
- From 2018, there will be an extra two trains per hour (tph) between Dalston Junction and Crystal Palace.
- From 2019, there will be four additional trains between Dalston Junction and Clapham Junction, making the frequency 8 tph.
I found the source of the report on TfL’s web site. This is a handy summary from the Appendix.
LO Improvements
It looks like the pattern of extra trains is as follows.
- From 2018, there will be an extra two trains per hour (tph) between Dalston Junction and Crystal Palace.
- From 2019, there will be an extra 2 tph between Dalston Junction and Clapham Junction, making the frequency 6 tph.
Currently both these services go to Highbury and Islington.
It’s interesting that these increased services are starting in 2018-2019! This times them to start just as Crossrail and Thameslink are opening, which probably means that TfL are expecting that a lot of Crossrail passengers will change to and from the East London Line at Whitechapel. As I will, no doubt!
Buried in TfL’s Transport Plan for 2050 says are possible plans on improving the service on the East London Line.
- Better late night and overnight services on the Overground.
- Automatic Train Operation on the core of the line from Dalston Junction to Surrey Quays to increase service frequency from 16 tph to possibly as high as 24 tph.
- Six car trains on the Overground.
At the moment the East London Line has 16 four-car trains an hour in the core route, so 24 six-car trains will mean an increase of capacity of 2.25.
The announced service improvements will mean that 20 tph will be passing Whitechapel and Canada Water.
So will we see other services started to bring the line up to the 24 tph capacity?
This would give London three almost-new 24 tph lines crossing the city; Crossrail, Thameslink and the East London Line, in an H-shape.
TfL don’t sem to be planning it yet!
The increase in frequency from Dalston Junction to Clapham Junction station is very welcome to me, as I often take a train to Clapham Junction to go south to Brighton, Gatwick or other places.
Increasing the frequency to Clapham Junction may also be needed, as extra stations and other changes are added to this branch of the East London Line.
- New Bermondsey station will be opened to take advantage of the six services per hour between Dalston Junction and Clapham Junction.
- Clapham Junction might be served by the Northern Line Extension some time in the early 2020s.
- Clapham Junction may well be served with other services to take the pressure off Victoria and Waterloo. It always strikes me as a station, that since its latest improvements could handle more services.
- Camberwell station, which has been promised for some time, could finally be under way, to connect the East London Line to Thameslink at Loughborough Junction station. A design based on the split-level principles of Smethwick Galton Bridge station may solve the connection problem.
The only difficulty of this frequency could be that there might need to be upgrades at Clapham Junction to turnback more trains.
Increasing the frequency to Crystal Palace station will be of less use to me, as I’ve rarely used that service.
If it linked to Tramlink, I might use it more, but that extension to Tramlink was dropped by Boris and there seems to be no enthusiasm on anybody’s part to build it.
I do wonder if Transport for London have other plans for Crystal Palace in their mind.
Look at this Google Map showing Crystal Palace, Penge West and Penge East stations.
Crystal Palace And Penge
Crystal Palace is a fully modernised and accessible station with lifts, a cafe and lots of platforms, so it makes an ideal terminus for trains on the East London Line.
Penge West is not the best appointed of stations and I suspect if a much better alternative was provided nearby, no-one would miss the station.
Penge East is on the Victoria to Orpington Line and needs upgrading for step-free access. But it has the problem of a Listed footbridge, that should be burnt. I wrote about it in An Exploration At Penge.
Buried in TfL’s Plan for 2050, is the one-word; Penge, as a possible new station. The line through Penge East passes under both the Brighton Main Line and the branch to Crystal Palace, in an area of railway land.
After looking at Smethwick Galton Bridge station or as I called it, Birmingham’s Four-Poster station, I do feel that a good architect could design a station, that solved the challenging problem of the difference in height and created a fully-accessible interchange. This station could have a lot going for it, as services passing through the station would include.
- 4 tph between Victoria and Orpington on the Victoria to Orpington Line
- 6 tph between Dalston Junction and Crystal Palace and 4 tph between Dalston Junction and West Croydon on the East London Line.
- A selection of the East London Line services would go to Highbury and Islington.
- 2 tph between London Bridge and Caterham on the Brighton Main Line.
- Services between Bedford/St. Albans/St. Pancras and Beckenham Junction on the Victoria to Orpington Line
It would increase connectivity greatly all over East London, both North and South of the river.
I suspect too, that the station would open up the brownfield land around the railway for property development.
I think there is a strong case to watch that area of Penge!
A Station That Needs Its Lifts
Crystal Palace station is an architectural gem, although it has no Listed status.
It has been restored sympathetically by Transport for London to comply with modern disability access routines, but the station does not seem to have lost the Victorian persona that would have been obvious, when it opened in the mid-1850s.
The pictures don’t do it justice.
But they do show the height that modern free-standing lifts can handle. Even if, as was happening today, the lifts are rather busy.
Certainly, Crystal Palace station is one that needs its lifts.
It makes you wonder how ladies in full Victorian dress with long wide skirts, tightly laced into corsets coped with the stairs.
It looks like the way the station has been restored would allow an appropriate film with a Victorian theme to be filmed without getting the modern lifts into shot.
Lorenzo’s Ristorante in Crystal Palace
On Friday night, I went out with friends to this restaurant in South London. They were very friendly, the owner checked everything and all in all it was a good meal.
So if you’re in that area, it’s worth trying out. They have a web site at www.lorenzo.uk.com. I think they’re within walking distance of the train station at Crystal Palace, which is now on the London Overground.
Thoughts on Transport to the Den
As I can’t drive, I rely heavily on three things, trains, buses and good old-fashioned walking.
On Tuesday night, I went to Canary Wharf for supper and for many places it is a good place to start an evening trip in London. The parking may be a bit expensive, but you can always get a couple of hours free, if you spend over £10 in one of the shops there. I used to buy something I needed like wine in Waitrose to get the token. Incidentally, is there a more up-market supermarket anywhere in the UK, than this one?
The first step to your evening entertainment, after a meal in one of the many restaurants, is to take the Jubilee Line from Canary Wharf Station, that makes all other Metro stations in the world, look ordinary. I once took a C into the station on the escalator from the surface and asked her to close her eyes, once she was safely on the moving staircase. I then told her to open her eyes a few metres down. The look on her face summed it all up.
As I was going to the Den on Tuesday, I just took one station on the Jubilee Line to Canada Water. From upstairs, I took a P12 bus, which stopped outside the ground. what could have been simpler?
One of the problems at the Den, is that it is an area with very few pubs, restaurants and cafes. My mate, Ian, chose to drive and he had quite a bit of difficulty parking and then finding anything to eat. I got the better deal by going to Canary Wharf.
There are plans to build a new station at Surrey Canal Road on the new East London Line extension to Clapham Junction.
This will make travelling to the Den easier, but it will probably do nothing for the quality of the hostelries in the area! I’m afraid at my age and with my medical conditions, greasy burgers, fish and chips and pints of gassy lager are not for me!
But it will give you more choices of getting to the ground, as it will then be directly connected to many other areas with lots of easily accessible places to eat and drink. For example, Ipswich fans coming in to Liverpool Street, might use the Spitalfields or Brick Lane areas, before going to the match from Shoreditch High Street.
Obviously Canary Wharf makes a good starting point for anything in the West End of London, but with just one simple interchange at Canada Water or Shadwell, it is also a good place to start for anything in South London, if you live north of the river. Crystal Palace, which used to be one of the more difficult grounds to reach is now a lot easier. It’s just a pity that the interchange at Shadwell from the Docklands Light Railway to the East London Line isn’t better.
The Anonymous Widower 