Silvertown Tunnel Bus Network Proposals
This web page is the Silvertown Tunnel Bus Network Proposals.
These proposals are made.
- A new high frequency, limited stop service between Grove Park and Canary Wharf referred to in this consultation as route X239
- To extend route 129 (Lewisham – North Greenwich) north across the river to Great Eastern Quay via the Royal Docks development zone
- A minor change to route 108 so that it uses the new Millennium Way slip road to exit the Blackwall Tunnel southbound
- We are also seeking your views on route options for three sections of routes 129 and X239.
It looks like route 108 will continue to use the current stop.
The proposals include this map.
I copied this map from the TfL web site, as they don’t provide one for people who want or need to use it.
These are my observations.
The 108 Bus
The 108 seems to be more or less as now and will be continue to be run by a single-decker bus, as double-decker buses can’t use the Blackwall Tunnel.
North of the Thames, the 108 calls at these stations.
- Stratford International for DLR and National Rail.
- Stratford for DLR, Central, Elizabeth and Jubilee Lines, and National Rail.
- Bow Church for DLR
- Devons Road for DLR
- Langdon Park for the DLR
- Bazely Street (All Saints) for DLR
South of the Thames, the 108 calls at these stations.
- North Greenwich for the Jubilee Line.
- Westcombe Park for National Rail
- Blackheath for National Rail
- Lewisham for DLR and National Rail
Note.
- It is possible to go between Lewisham and Stratford on the DLR with a change at Canary Wharf.
- It is possible to go between North Greenwich and Stratford on the Jubilee Line.
- Westcombe Park station is on the Greenwich Line.
I would wonder, if many people use this bus route for long distances.
The 129 Bus
Note.
- The 129 appears to connect Lewisham and Greenwich to the City Airport and the Becton branch of the DLR.
- Many journeys on the 129 bus, might be easier using the DLR, with a change at Westferry or Poplar, which is probably what travellers do now.
- The 129 bus is shown on the map with a stop at Silvertown. Does that mean that it could connect with a Silvertown station on the Elizabeth Line?
- As the 129 bus will pass through the larger Silvertown Tunnel, it could be a double-decker route, instead of the current single-decker.
North of the Thames, the 129 calls at these stations.
- Gallions Reach for the DLR
- Beckton for the DLR
- Royal Albert for the DLR
- London City Airport for the DLR
- Silvertown
- Pontoon Dock for the DLR
- West Silvertown for the DLR
South of the Thames, the 129 calls at these stations.
- North Greenwich for the Jubilee Line.
- Cutty Sark for DLR
- Greenwich for DLR and National Rail
- Lewisham for DLR and National Rail
Would improvements and a frequency increase to the DLR and the building of Silvertown station, mean that changes to the 129 bus route, would not be so important?
The X329 Bus
Note.
- Canary Wharf must be served and starting at Westferry Circus is probably a good choice.
- But is Grove Park station, the ideal Southern terminal?
- Not stopping the X329 bus at North Greenwich is probably correct, as North Greenwich station is a large Jubilee Line and bus interchange close to the O2.
North of the Thames, the X329 calls at these stations.
- Canary Wharf for DLR and Elizabeth and Jubilee Lines
South of the Thames, the X329 calls at these stations.
- Blackheath for National Rail
- Lee for National Rail
- Grove Park for National Rail
Note.
- Blackheath station is on the Bexleyheath and North Kent Lines.
- Lee station is on the Dartford Loop Line.
- Grove Park station is on the South Eastern Man Line.
- Grove Park has a bus station, where there could be space for a battery charger for electric buses.
The X329 seems to have been partly designed on the premise, that an express bus should be run through the Silvertown Tunnel. But it does connect four of the rail lines going into London terminals to Canary Wharf.
Silvertown Station For London City Airport
Silvertown station would more than double the number of stations with easy routes to the London City Airport.
The Elizabeth Line would enable the direct connection that is needed to Canary Wharf, the City of London, Heathrow, Liverpool Street and Paddington stations and the West End.
- A single change at Abbey Wood, would give access to much of Kent.
- A single change at Farringdon, would give access to Thameslink services and Gatwick and Luton airports.
- Around 2030, a single change at Old Oak Common, would give access to High Speed Two services.
- A single change at Paddington, would give access to Wales and West services.
- A single change at Whitechapel, would give access to the great circle of the London Overground.
I believe the case for a Silvertown station with at least a good walking route to the London City Airport is strong, and the station would be a marvellous asset for Silvertown and the Airport.
Could The Pantograph Make A Return To London’s Buses?
The title of this post, is the same as that of this article on Ian Visits.
Reading Ian’s article, the plan is for the 358 bus route to be converted into an electric bus route, where the buses are charged at both ends of the route during the turn round.
The Feasibility Of A Battery-Electric Route 358
This morning, I took a train to Crystal Palace station and then took a 358 bus to Orpington station before coming home.
These were my thoughts.
Crystal Palace Parade
The buses actually leave from Crystal Palace Parade where there are several bus stops in a bus station.
This Google Map shows the bus station.
I also took these pictures.
Note.
- There is certainly a lot of space to put a charger.
- As there is the main Crystal Palace television transmitter close by, I suspect that power is not a problem.
There didn’t appear to be any sign of work relating to a charger.
Orpington Station
This Google Map shows Orpington station.
Note.
- The bus station is on the East side of the station.
- Buses are lined up at the Northern end of the bus station.
- Orpington station is step-free.
I took these pictures.
As at Crystal Palace there appeared to be no work in progress to install a charger.
The Route
The route is mainly flat with hills or inclines at the following places.
- There is a steep hill up to Crystal Palace Parade.
- There are hills at Bromley and Farnborough.
- There is a steep incline up to Orpington station.
At times, the bus was running at just under forty mph.
I suspect that Transport for London will have to be careful with specifying the battery size.
The Buses
This is the ie tram product page on the Irizar web site.
This is a video of the twelve metre ie tram.
It looks rather smart and purposeful.
The Charger
The image on Ian Visits could be one of Furrer + Frey’s chargers shown in this doocument on their web site.
Conclusion
It looks a viable zero-carbon bus route, but as no work is visible, has it been cancelled because of TfL’s financial problems?
More Frequent Trains And A New Station For The London Overground
The title of this post, is the same as that of this article on IanVisits.
This is said.
In a statement, the government agreed to requests for £80.8 million from the GLA to support transport upgrades so that 14,000 homes can be built along the East London Line.
Upgrades include.
- New Bermondsey station, which was originally to be called Surrey Canal Road, will be built.
- A second entrance will be built at Surrey Quays station.
- Frequency between Dalston Junction and Clapham Junction stations will be increased from four trains per hour (tph) to six tph.
- Frequency between Highbury & Islington and Crystal Palace stations will be increased from four tph to six tph.
The frequency upgrades will mean twenty tph between Dalston Junction and Surrey Quays stations, or a train every three minutes as opposed to the current three minutes and forty-five seconds.
A few thoughts follow.
Surrey Quays Station Upgrade
Ian’s article says this about the new entrance at Surrey Quays station.
The very cramped Surrey Quays station gets a second entrance, which will run under the main road and be based on the north side, where the shopping centre car park is today. That avoids crossing two busy roads, which can take some time if you’re waiting for the lights to change.
This Google Map shows the station and the car park of the Shopping Centre.
These are my pictures, taken at and around the station.
Traffic is bad and the subway suggested by Ian’s wording will be very welcome.
Collateral Benefits At New Cross Gate
New Cross Gate station will be one of several stations along the East London Line to see benefits in service frequency and quality.
The train frequency on East London Line services will rise from eight tph to ten tph.
But this is not all that should or could happen.
- The service between Highbury & Islington and West Croydon stations could rise from four tph to six tph.
- This would mean that New Cross Gate would have a twelve tph service to and from Whitechapel, which in a year or so, will have Crossrail connections to Canary Wharf, Bond Street, Paddington and Heathrow.
- Southeastern should be getting new higher-capacity, higher-performance and possibly longer trains to replace their elderly trains into London Bridge.
- Charing Cross station is redeveloped into a higher-capacity, cross-river station, to allow more trains.
- Digital signalling, as used on Thameslink will be extended to cover all trains through New Cross and New Cross Gate.
- The Docklands Light Railway to Lewisham will get new and higher-capacity trains.
- Southeastern Metro services could go to the London Overground.
Could this all mean that the East London Line, Southeastern and Crossrail will more than hold the fort until it is decided to build the Bakerloo Line Extension?
The Bakerloo Line Extension
This map from TfL shows the route of the Bakerloo Line Extension.
If and when the Bakerloo Line Extension is built, New Cross Gate will surely become a major transport hub.
If you look at the current and proposed stations on the Southern section of an extended Bakerloo Line, you can say the following.
- Paddington will get a step-free pedestrian link between Crossrail and the Bakerloo Line.
- Charing Cross will benefit from more Southeastern Metro services into the main line station.
- Waterloo will benefit from more Southeastern Metro services through the attached Waterloo East station.
- Elephant & Castle station will benefit from more Thameslink services through the attached main line station.
- New Cross Gate will benefit from more Southeastern Metro and East London Line services through the station.
- Lewisham will benefit from more Southeastern Metro services through the station.
But there are no interim benefits for the blue-mauve area, that will be served by the proposed Old Kent Road 1 and Old Kent Road 2 stations.
In addition, is there a need to add capacity between the New Cross area and Lewisham? Southeastern improvements will help, but the Bakerloo Line Extension will do a lot more!
Except for these two stations, is there a reason to build an extension to the Bakerloo Line, as train services between Charing Cross, Waterloo East and New Cross and Lewisham will be significantly increased in frequency, reach and quality?
A Bakerloo Line Extension Redesign
Whatever happens to the Bakerloo Line, the following should be done.
- New walk-through trains running at a higher-frequency on the current route.
- Major access improvements and better connection to main line services at Elephant & Castle, Waterloo East, Charing Cross and Willesden Junction stations.
- A radical reorganisation North of Queen’s Park station, in conjunction with the Watford DC Line and the proposed West London Orbital Railway.
This would improve the current line, but it would do nothing for those living where the extension will go!
So why not do what is happening to the Northern Line at Battersea and create a short extension to the Bakerloo Line that serves the areas that need it and one that can be extended in the future?
- You could argue, that the extension to Lewisham is short and it could be extended to Hayes and other places.
- I also think, that the route goes via New Cross Gate, as that is one of the few sites in the area, from where a large tunnel could be built.
Ideally, what could be needed is a high-capacity public transport link from Elephant & Castle and Greenwich and/or Lewisham via the Old Kent Road, New Cross Gate and New Cross.
The Germans, the Dutch and others wouldn’t mess about and would run trams along the road, but that would go down with the locals like a lead West London Tram.
So it looks like some form of extension of the Bakerloo Line is the only way to go.
Consider.
- Two-platform terminal stations at Brixton and Walthamstow Central handle up to thirty-six tph on the Victoria Line.
- New Cross Gate and New Cross stations are about five hundred metres apart.
- Double-ended stations like Knightsbridge on the Piccadilly Line and Kings Cross on the Victoria Line work very well.
I would look at building a double-ended Bakerloo Line station deep underneath New Cross Road.
- It would be connected by escalators and lifts to the existing stations at New Cross Gate in the West and New Cross in the East.
- Provision would be made to extend the line further to either Greenwich or Lewisham.
- New Cross and Lewisham already have a high-frequency connection of six tph.
- The whole extension could be built from the single tunnelling location on the Sainsbury’s site at New Cross Gate.
- There would be no necessity for any works at Lewisham station.
It would probably need more services to be run between New Cross and Lewisham.
Current Services Between New Cross And Lewisham
Southeastern currently runs these services between New Cross and Lewisham.
- London Cannon Street and Slade Green via Sidcup
- London Cannon Street and Orpington via Grove Park
- London Cannon Street and Hayes
All services are two tph.
Extending The East London Line Service South From New Cross
New Cross is served by the only short service on the London Overground; the four tph between Dalston Junction and New Cross stations.
So could this East London Line service be extended South to serve Lewisham to increase services between New Cross and Lewisham?
This map from carto.metro.free.fr shows the lines at New Cross station.
Note how the double-track East London Line, shown in orange, arrives from Surrey Quays station arrives in the North-Western corner of the map, becomes a single-track and then goes under the main lines before going into the bay platform D.
This Google Map shows the same area.
The London Overground track is clearly visible.
Could extra track be added, to enable the following?
- Southbound trains could join the main line and stop in Platform C
- Northbound trains could leave the main line after stopping in Platform A and go towards Surrey Quays station.
If this is possible, then it would give a four tph service between Dalston Junction and Lewisham, with an important stop at Whitechapel to connect to Crossrail.
Lewisham doesn’t have the space for a terminal platform, but there would appear two possible terminals South of Lewisham.
- Hayes – Journey time to and from Dalston Junction would take around 53 minutes.
- Orpington – Journey time to and from Dalston Junction would take around 50 minutes.
Both stations would make ideal terminals.
- They have bay platforms for terminating the trains.
- Round trips would be a convenient two hours.
- Eight trains would be needed for the service.
- New Cross will have the same four tph to and from Dalston Junction as it does now!
- Lewisham and Dalston Junction would have a four tph service that would take 27 minutes.
The service could even be split with two tph to each terminal.
Will the Extended Services Need To Replace Other Services?
Currently Hayes has these current Off Peak services.
- Two tph to Cannon Street via London Bridge
- Two tph to Charing Cross via London Bridge
I would expect that if digital signalling is applied through the area, that the extra services could be added to Hayes and Orpington as decided.
An Improved Hayes Line
Transport for London and various commentators always assume that the Bakerloo Line will eventually take over the Hayes Line.
This will or could mean the following.
- Passengers used to a full-size train looking out on the countryside and back gardens through big windows, will have to get used to a more restricted view.
- Platforms on the Hayes Line will need to be rebuilt, so that two different size of train will be step-free between train and platform.
- The service could be slower.
- The ability to walk through an increasingly pedestrianised Central London to and from Cannon Street, Charing Cross and London Bridge will be lost.
- Loss of First Class seats. which will happen anyway!
I think that passengers could want to stick with the current service.
The only reason to allow the Bakerloo Line Extension to take over the Hayes Line, is that it would allow another four tph to run between Lewisham and London Bridge. But digital signalling could give the same benefit!
But what if the Overground muscled in?
The Hayes Line could take up to four tph between Dalston Junction and Hayes, via Lewisham and New Cross, which would give these benefits.
- Increased capacity on the Hayes Line.
- An excellent connection to Crossrail, which would give a better connection to the West End, Liverpool Street and Heathrow.
- Better connection to the Eastern side of the City of London and Canary Wharf.
- It could free up four tph between New Cross and London Bridge.
- Same-platform interchange between Southeastern and East London Line services at Lewisham and New Cross.
There would need to be these changes to the infrastructure.
- A new track layout at New Cross.
- Installation of digital signalling.
The latter will happen anyway.
Times To And From Crossrail
Times to and from Whitechapel, with its Crossrail connection are.
- Lewisham – 17 minutes
- Hayes – 44 minutes
- Orpington – 41 minutes
The current service between Orpington and Farrington, which also will connect to Crossrail, takes 52 minutes.
Penge Interchange
Although, this has not been funded, I think that this new interchange could be very much in Transport for London’s plans.
I discuss the possible Penge Interchange station in Penge Interchange.
It’s certainly something to watch out for, as it could improve connectivity by a large amount.
The View From The Dalston Omnibus
For decades, Dalston had a terrible reputation and then came the Overground, which changed everything.
There are now these combined devices from the two Dalston stations.
- Eight tph to Stratford
- Four tph to Richmond via Willesden Junction
- Four tph to Clapham Junction via Willesden Junction
- Four tph to Clapham Junction via Surrey Quays
- Four tph to Crystal Palace via Surrey Quays
- Four tph to New Cross via Surrey Quays
- Four tph to West Croydon via Surrey Quays
There is also a useful eight tph connecting service between Dalston Junction and Highbury & Islington.
In the next couple of years, these developments should happen.
- Services on the East London Line will be increased with an extra two tph to Clapham Junction and Crystal Palace.
- Services on the North London Line will be increased to cope with overcrowding. As the Dalston Junction and Highbury & Islington connecting service will be going to ten tph, it would seem logical that the North London Line service should match this frequency.
- Crossrail will open and Dalston will have a twenty tph connection to its services at Whitechapel.
Dalston needs better connections to either main line terminal stations or their interchanges a few miles out.
Currently, Dalston has very useful connections to the following main interchanges.
- Stratford for the Great Eastern Main Line.
- Clapham Junction for the South Western Railway and Southern services.
- Richmond for Windsor and Reading services.
- Whitechapel will provide a link to Crossrail.
- In addition the planned update at Norwood Junction will give better connection to services to Gatwick, Brighton and other services to the South of Croydon.
Better interchanges are needed with services to the North and the South East of London.
Extending the Dalston Junction and New Cross service to Hayes or Orpington via Lewisham could greater improve the train service from Dalston, by providing interchange to services fanning out into and beyond South East London.
Conclusion
I am drawn to these two conclusions.
- The Bakerloo Line should be extended via two new Old Kent Road stations to a double-ended terminal station in New Cross with interchange to both New Cross Gate and New Cross stations.
- The New Cross branch of the London Overground should be extended through Lewisham to Orpington and/or Hayes.
My preferred destination for the London Overground service could be Hayes, as this would surely help to free up paths through Lewisham and London Bridge.
The Future Of Class 378 Trains
This post is a musing on the future of the Class 378 trains.
The Thames Tunnel
The Thames Tunnel is the tail that wags the East London Line, when it comes to trains.
- For evacuation and safety purposed, trains running through the tunnel, must have an emergency exit through the driver’s cab.
- It hasn’t happened yet, as far as I know, but a version of Sod’s Law states if you ran trains without this emergency exit, you’d need to use it.
- London Overground’s Class 378 trains have this feature, but their Class 710 trains do not.
So it would appear that until Bombardier build an Aventra with an emergency exit through the driver’s cab, that the existing Class 378 trains must work all services through the Thames Tunnel.
Incidentally, I can’t think of another long tunnel, that might be served by the London Overground, so it could be that Class 378 trains will be the only trains to go through the Thames Tunnel, until they wear out and need to go to the scrapyard.
Six Car Trains On The East London Line
I covered this in Will The East London Line Ever Get Six-Car Trains? and I came to this conclusion.
I will be very surprised if Network Rail’s original plan on six-car trains on the East London Line happens in the next few years.
It might happen in the future, but it would need expensive platform extensions at Shadwell, Wapping, Rotherhithe and Canada Water and Surrey Quays stations.
Increased Frequency On The East London Line
If five-car Class 378 trains are the limit, the only way to increase capacity of the East London Line would be to increase frequency.
The current frequency of the East London Line is sixteen trains per hour (tph)
There are four tph on each of these routes.
- Dalston Junction And Clapham Junction
- Dalston Junction And New Cross
- Highbury & Islington And Crystal Palace
- Highbury & Islington And West Croydon
Two increases are planned.
- 2018 – 6 tph – Highbury & Islington And Crystal Palace
- 2019 – 6 tph – Dalston Junction And Clapham Junction
This would increase the frequency of the East London Line to twenty tph.
It will probably mean an updated digital signalling system on the East London Line.
Eventually, I think it likely, that a full ERTMS system as is fitted to Thameslink and Crossrail will be fitted to at least the East London Line, but possibly the whole Overground network.
Digital signalling would certainly allow the twenty-four tph frequency of Thameslink and CXrossrail, which could mean that the four routes all received a frequency of four tph.
But Thameslink and Crossrail are theoretically capable of handling thirty tph or a train every two minutes, through their central tunnels.
If the two modern multi-billion pound tunnels can handle 30 tph, why can’t their little brother, that started life as a half-million pound pedestrian tunnel in 1843,
The Number Of Trains Needed For The Current Service
If I go through the routes of the original Overground, I find the following.
Dalston Junction And Clapham Junction
Trains take 46 minutes to go South and 44 minutes to come North and a round trip would take two hours.
This means that the current four tph service would need eight trains.
A six tph service in the future would need twelve trains.
Dalston Junction And New Cross
Trains take 22 minutes both ways and a round trip would take an hour.
This means that the current four tph service would need four trains.
A six tph service in the future would need six trains.
Highbury & Islington And Crystal Palace
Trains take 44 minutes to go South and 43 minutes to come North and a round trip would take two hours.
This means that the current four tph service would need eight trains.
A six tph service in the future would need twelve trains.
Highbury & Islington And West Croydon
Trains take 52 minutes both ways and a round trip would take two hours.
This means that the current four tph service would need eight trains.
A six tph service in the future would need twelve trains.
This means that the current four tph on all four routes needs twenty-eight trains.
The Proposed 2020 Service
This will have two extra tph to Crystal Palace and Clapham Junction and will need thirty-six trains.
Six Trains Per Hour On All Four Routes
as each route terminates at both ends in a single platform, which can handle six tph, with the right signalling, I feel that this could be the design objective of the East London Line, when it was built in the early-2010s.
This could be achieved with forty-two trains, leaving perhaps twelve to fifteen trains for other duties, depending on how many are needed on stand-by or are in maintenance.
What Could Be Done With Twelve Trains?
As I calculated earlier, three routes need twelve trains to provide a six tph service.
- Dalston Junction And Clapham Junction
- Highbury & Islington And Crystal Palace
- Highbury & Islington And West Croydon
All three services take between 44 and 52 minutes.
So could another six tph service that takes around this time be added to the current four services?
Willesden Junction As A Northern Terminal
Trains could take the North London Line to Willesden Junction and terminate in the Bay Platform 2.
I estimate the following timings from Willesden Junction.
- Highbury & Islington – 27 mins
- Dalston Junction – 31 mins
- Whitechapel – – 41 mins
- New Cross – 49 mins
- Crystal Palace – 64 mins
- Clapham Junction – 73 mins.
- West Croydon – 74 mins
It would appear that the only possible Southern terminal of the current four, would be New Cross, as that is the only terminal within the 44-52 minute range of journey time.
So could a service between Willesden Junction and New Cross replace the current one between Dalston Junction and New Cross?
- It would need to be run using dual-voltage trains
- Voltage changeover could be at Highbury & Islington station.
- Extending the New Cross service would free up a bay platform at Dalston Junction station.
- It should be possible to have a frequency of six tph.
- Serious modifications or additions to infrastructure would probably not be required.
As running to Willesden Junction was talked about before the Overground opened, I wonder if the numerous crossovers on the North London Line, already allow trains from the East London Line to terminate at Willesden Junction.
Southern Terminals Via New Cross Station
This map from carto.metro.free.fr shows the lines at New Cross station.
Note how the double-track East London Line, shown in orange, arrives from Surrey Quays station arrives in the North-Western corner of the map, becomes a single-track and then goes under the main lines before going into the bay platform D.
This Google Map shows the same area.
The London Overground track is clearly visible.
Could extra track be added, to enable the following?
- Southbound trains could join the main line and stop in Platform C
- Northbound could leave the main line after stopping in Platform A and go towards Surrey Quays station.
If this is possible, then trains could run between Dalston Junction and Lewisham stations.
Once at Lewisham they would have choice of Southern terminal,
Hayes As A Southern Terminal
Consider a service between Dalston Junction and Hayes stations.
- I estimate that a train could go between the two stations in 53 minutes.
- Hayes station has two terminal platforms
Six tph would probably be too many services, but 2-3 tph might be very welcome.
Orpington As A Southern Terminal
Consider a service between Dalston Junction and Orpington stations.
- I estimate that a train could go between the two stations in 47 minutes.
- Orpington station has three terminal platforms.
Six tph would probably be too many services, but 2-3 tph might be very welcome.
A Combined Hayes And Orpington Service
As a case can be made for services to both Hayes and Orpington via Lewisham, I think the ideal service could be two tph to both Hayes and Orpington.
- There would be four tph between Dalston Junction and Lewisham.
- Stations on the East London Line would have access to the important interchange station at Lewisham.
- Several stations on the routes to Hayes and Orpington would have a two tph service to Crossrail and the Jubilee Line.
Other Stations Via New Cross
Looking at rail maps, there would seem to be several possibilities including with their times from Dalston junction station.
- Beckenham Junction – 41 mins
- Bromley North – 40 mins
- Gove Park – 35 mins
There are probably others.
Southern Terminals Via Peckham Rye Station
As an example Streatham Common station is planned to be a major interchange and is 43 minutes from Dalston Junction.
Would a bay platform work here as an East london Line terminal?
Conclusion
If all fifty-seven Class 378 trains worked the East London Line, they could run six tph on the current routes.
- Dalston Junction And Clapham Junction
- Dalston Junction And New Cross
- Highbury & Islington And Crystal Palace
- Highbury & Islington And West Croydon
It would need forty-two trains.
Suppose the Dalston Junction and New Cross service was replaced with a Willesden Junction and New Cross service.
- This would provide a useful direct four tph service between East and North London.
- Changing at Highbury & Islington station would be avoided for a lot of journeys.
- The journey time wold be around 49 minutes.
- A two tph service would need four trains.
- A four tph service would need eight trains.
- A six tph service would need twelve trains.
- Many journeys between North and South London would now be possible with just a single same platform interchange.
To run the following frequencies on this route would mean these total frequencies on the East London Line and total numbers of trains.
- 2 tph – 20 tph – 40 trains
- 4 tph – 22 tph – 44 trains
- 6 tph – 24 tph – 48 trains
I think that if the figures are juggled a bit, there is enough trains to run extra services to one or more Southern destinations from Dalston Junction.
My preference would be a split service of 2 tph to both Hayes and Orpington via New Cross, where some new track would be needed.
This would do the following.
- Create a frequent connection between South-East and North-East London.
- Both areas would be connected to Crossrail and several Underground Lines, including the future Bakerloo Line Extension.
- The Hayes Line would be shared between Overground and Southeastern trains.
No more new trains or large amounts of new infrastructure would be needed.
I suspect that London Overground and the new Southeastern franchise can do better than my musings.
Orpington Station – 3rd August 2015
After An Exploration At Penge, took a train from Penge East station to Orpington station.
These pictures I took, show a well-appointed station with full step-free access and a selection of long through and bay platforms.
Could Orpington be one of the extra destinations that are needed by the East London Line?
It takes thirty four minutes of travelling time to get to Whitechapel changing at New Cross at the moment, so it is actually closer than West Croydon, which takes forty minutes.
The route passes through a series of important and busy stations like New Cross, Lewisham and Petts Wood. It could either be via Beckenham Junction and Bromley South or via Hither Green and Chislehurst.
Using Opington as a destination for the East London Line would appear to connect a lot of South East London to Crossrail at Whitechapel and the Jubilee Line at Canada Water.
It would also fit in well with Transport for London’s desire to take over services in South East London. The Wikipedia entry says this.
However, since taking over the West Anglia services, TfL have once again proposed to take over the suburban routes, currently operated by Southeastern after their franchise ends. The opposition to TfL taking over routes from Kent County Council have softened after a London Assembly meeting, which Kent County Council attended. Kent have set out “red lines” to its support, stating no Southeastern Mainline service should be negatively affected by a take over by TfL.
So bringing an uprated East London Line to Orpington might appear on the surface to fit in well with TfL’s ambitions.
It certainly seems that they have big ambitions in South East London.
Could it be Borough Jealousy?
Councils like Bromley have seen the improvements in transport and the related benefits in Northern boroughs like Hackney, Islington and Brent and want a piece of Orange action themselves.
The Anonymous Widower 