Will c2c Push For Access To Stratford And Liverpool Street?
On Sunday in An Excursion To Shoeburyness, I indicated how instead of coming back the way I came via West Ham, I got off at Stratford and did some shopping at Eastfield.
But would c2c like to serve Stratford and Liverpool Street more?
The Current Weekend Service From Shoeburyness To Stratford And Liverpool Street
Currently two trains per hour (tph) run from Shoeburyness to Stratford and Liverpool Street at weekends, when there is no conflicting engineering work.
Incidentally, with my excursion, I think that I had to come back by c2c as the Great Eastern Main Line was closed for Crossrail work.
If nothing this engineering disruption shows the value of Southend being served by two independent rail lines.
The Stratford Effect
The Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park and the Shopping Centre at Stratford will have a porofound effect on the operation of c2c’s trains.
This page on the c2c web site is entitled Christmas shoppers get direct c2c trains to Stratford.
This is said.
c2c will run two trains an hour on both Saturdays and Sundays that divert to Liverpool Street instead of Fenchurch Street. These will provide direct access to the Westfield Stratford City shopping centre plus easy access to London’s West End. This is in addition to the two trains an hour that run to Chafford Hundred, for the Lakeside shopping centre, as part of c2c’s existing service.
I think the news item dates from 2014, but it does show a level of intent.
There is also this article in the Southend Echo, which is entitled Extra trains planned as West Ham’s stadium move puts added pressure on c2c network.
This is said.
TRAIN operator c2c are running extra and longer trains for fans travelling to West Ham matches at the club’s new stadium in Stratford.
This won’t be a problem for weekend matches, but what about matches on weekday evenings?
c2c’s spokesman went into more detail.
When asked about direct trains running from Southend to Stratford to make the journey as quick and simple as possible for fans, c2c said they already run direct trains to Stratford from Southend and Basildon,but not Grays, and there will be two trains per hour direct to Stratford most weekends – and two more trains per hour to West Ham.
From Grays, all four trains an hour go to West Ham.
For weeknight games and during weekend engineering work, all trains run to West Ham.
At present, the weekend trains between Shoeburyness and Stratford, satisfy the weekend sopping and football, but what about other events at the Olympic Park? The Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park is only going to get busier.
So are the current services really what c2c and its customers want and need?
Car parking is fairly comprehensive at the outer stations according to this page on the c2c web site.
It wasn’t very busy on the Sunday I took this picture at West Horndon station, but for encouraging weekend leisure trips, the availability of car parking must be an asset.
I would imagine that c2c are pushing the authorities for permission to run evening services into Liverpool Street via Stratford.
The Crossrail Effect
When you talk about any of London’s railways, this herd of elephants, with its 1,500 passenger capacity Class 345 trains, always bursts into the room.
For c2c trains to get to Stratford, they need to take the Gospel Oak to Barking Line (GOBlin) between Barking and Woodgrange Park, where they join the slow lines into London.
This map from carto.metro.free.fr shows the lines around Woodgrange Park station.
As the GOBlin is currently being electrified and improved, I suspect that there will be no operational problems on the short stretch of shared line.
Will there be problems though, after Crossrail opens and there are increased frequencies of trains to and from London?
In the Peak, Crossrail will be running 16 tph to and from Shenfield, so as they are only running 8 tph in the Off Peak, I suspect that at weekends, there will be capacity for c2c’s 2 tph to Stratford.
It is interesting to look at Crossrail’s proposed Peak service on the Shenfield branch.
- 8 tph between Shenfield and Paddington
- 2 tph between Shenfield and Reading
- 2 tph between Shenfield and Maidenhead
- 4 tph between Gidea Park and Liverpool Street
This says to me, that there are probably paths in the timetable to squeeze 4 tph in the Off Peak into Liverpool Street, as the Gidea Park service is Peak-only.
Access To Liverpool Street
Liverppool Street station has two problems.
- There are not enough platforms – This is a difficult one to solve, although Crossrail might only need a single platform to handle the limited number of services not going through the core tunnel. London Overground regularly turns 4 tph in a single platform.
- The platforms are too short – This will be remedied once Crossrail trains are using the core tunnel.
I’m certain, that in a few years Liverpool Street in the Off Peak, will be able to handle 2 tph with a length of 12-cars for c2c.
It is interesting to note, that my train on Sunday was only eight-cars. Was this because of limitations at Liverpool Street?
Should c2c Stop At Woodgrange Park?
Currently, they don’t, but after the GOBlin is reopened would it be a good idea to create a step-free change to get to and from a lot of stations across North London.
The change at Barking between the two lines is not easy and the alternative is to improve it.
c2c Needs Access To Crossrail
c2c’s current route structure has no connection to Crossrail.
As an example to go from West Horndon to Heathrow Airport, you’d need to change twice.
- At West Ham onto the Jubilee Line.
- At Stratford onto Crossrail.
Neither change is a short walk, but both are step-free in busy stations.
If however, it’s a Saturday or Sunday, you could take a train to Stratford and I suspect when Crossrail opens, just wait on the same platform until a Heathrow train arrives.
It should be remembered, that c2c runs an all-Electrostar fleet and I suspect that these are Crossrail compatible with respect to platform height, so the change at Stratford would be easy with heavy cases, buggy or even a week-chair.
What Will The Future Hold?
From what I have written, it would certainly be possible for there to be two 12-car trains every hour in the Off Peak between Shoeburyness and Liverpool Street calling at Basildon, Upminster and Stratford.
But this would have limitations and possible problems.
- Passengers from stations like Grays would want the Crossrail connection too!
- If it is needed in the Off Peak, is it needed in the Peak?
- Would passengers changing at Stratford cause congestion?
There would also be the mother of all battles between the train companies involved, to make sure they kept market share.
My ideal world scenario would be something like.
- 4 tph all day go into Liverpool Street.
- 2 tph on both c2c routes through Basildon and Grays go into Liverpool Street.
- Chafford Hundred is served from Liverpool Street
- Ticketing is such, that Stratford to Southend can use either route and either Southend station.
- c2c trains to and from Liverpool Street, call at Woodgrange Park for the GOBlin.
My wish list may not be possible, but there is certainly tremendous scope for improvement.
We could even see, a station like Grays, Pitsea or Southend becoming a Crossrail terminus.
Who knows? I don’t!
A Walk From Moorgate To Liverpool Street Station
This morning, I walked from Moorgate to Liverpool Street station, when it was quiet.
I took a route through Finsbury Circus, and was thus able to look at the various Crossrail works in the area.
These are some comments about the area, often based on this page on the Crossrail web site, which details the urban realm around Crossrail stations in the City of London.
Moorgate
Moorgate station will be much changed from the current station.
Reading the Crossrail web site, gives the impression that the majority of passengers will generally walk to the station from perhaps their office, a bus or a taxi. This is said.
- Reducing carriageway width in Moorgate and increasing footway space.
- Introduction of a central pedestrian median in Moorgate to improve crossing at a key pedestrian crossing point and improve accessibility for all users.
- A new pedestrianised public space will be created on Moorfields between New Union Street and London Wall, with access limited to emergency and service vehicles only.
- Moorfields south of Moor Place will act as a ‘secure zone’ outside the new station entrance in which vehicles access will be controlled via station controlled retractable bollards.
- Away from the raised carriageway areas regular kerb heights are retained in close proximity to the station entrance in Moorfields, Moorgate and Fore Street which allow for comfortable boarding of taxis via wheel chair ramps. The closest regular height kerbs to the station are located approximately 30m from the station entrance on Moorfields and Moorgate.
All is part of a wider plan in the City of London, which will probably result in a more pedestrian- and cyclist-friendly city.
Buses On Moorgate
Nothing is said about buses on Moorgate, which are important to me, as they stop at the end of my road, with Northbound and Southbound stops within a hundred metres of my house.
I have two main bus routes, that will take me to and from Moorgate; the 21 and the 141.
I can remember as a child the London trolleybuses, one of which was the 641, which was replaced by the 141 bus.
This link shows where the Balls Pond Road and Mildmay Park cross about sixty years ago and the present day, perhaps seventy metres from my house.
I find it very convenient.
Moorgate is served by four main bus routes; the 21, 43, 76 and 141, all of which except the 76 go between Bank and Old Street stations.
I don’t know how the buses will be reorganised after Crossrail, but I suspect that the current stops will be used initially and only changed, when a new pattern of use emerges.
Crossrail and the Moorgate rebuild could effect the buses in several ways.
- Many new passengers will get a bus to and from Moorgate.
- I would suspect that Crossrail could cut the number of private cars in the centre of London.
- The better walking route to Liverpool Street station in the dry, might mean more bus passengers.
- The improved Great Northern Metro might increase or reduce passengers using the buses at Moorgate.
- Moorgate’s taxi-friendly design, may mean the station get choked by back-cabs and Uber.
\the rebuilding of Bank and London Bridge stations will also have an effect.
I suspect Transport for London, suspect what is going to happen, but the reality will only be found, when all the new lines, stations and walking routes are open.
Finsbury Circus
Finsbury Circus is an oasis in the City and Crossrail will hand it back after completion, with a hopefully-tasteful ventilation shaft in the middle.
Black Redstarts
Black Redstarts are quite a rare bird in the UK, but it appears that London has a population.
A notice in Finsbury Circus Gardens gave more details.
The Central Line
The Central Line isn’t built deep under buildings in central London, but it goes under the roads. At Liverpool Street station, I get the impression that it ran between the station and the next door Broad Street station (now Broadgate), before going South under Old Broad Street and then curving to the West under Throgmorton Street to go to Bank station.
You can get an impression of the depth of the Central Line from the length of the escalators at Liverpool Street station.
This extract taken from the Wikipedia entry for the Central London Railway, which was the predecessor of the Central Line, describes the construction of the tunnels.
To minimise the risk of subsidence, the routing of the tunnels followed the roads on the surface and avoided passing under buildings. Usually the tunnels were bored side by side 60–110 feet (18–34 m) below the surface, but where a road was too narrow to allow this, the tunnels were aligned one above the other, so that a number of stations have platforms at different levels. To assist with the deceleration of trains arriving at stations and the acceleration of trains leaving, station tunnels were located at the tops of slight inclines.
So you have a stack of lines and tunnels at Liverpool Street station.
- Close to the surface is the Metropolitan and Circle Lines going across the front of the station, roughly East-West
- 18-34 metres down the Central Line runs perpendicularly to the sub-surface lines.
- Crossrail is the deepest line in an East-West direction.
Crossrail is also building a pedestrian walkway in an East-West direction, that goes under the Central Line and above the level of the Crossrail running tunnels.
Liverpool Street Crossrail Station Disentangled
Liverpool Street station on Crossrail is a massive double-ended beast that stretches as far as Moorgate station, where it has a second entrance.
At the Liverpool Street end, it will connect to the following in addition the the Main Line services out of the station.
- Central Line
- Circle Line
- Hammersmith and City Line
- Metropolitan Line
At the Moorgate end, it will connect to the following lines.
- Circle Line
- Hammersmith and City Line
- Metropolitan Line
- Northern Line
- Northern City Line
This is a visualisation of how Moorgate station will look after it has been rebuilt for Crossrail, that I found on this web page from May 2009, so it may be out-of-date and wrong.
Liverpool Street-Moorgate Station Schematic
Note.
- The royal blue line is labelled at First Capital Connect, for which I use the term Northern City Line.
- Turquoise is used for new Crossrail work, with red and yellow for the Central and sub-surface lines.
- If you enlarge the image by clicking on it, you can clearly see the escalators, that currently connect the Northern City and Northern Lines to the ticket hall.
- Crossrail appears to have an escalator connection to an enlarged Moorgate ticket hall
- The deep level Northern Line, which is shown in black, passes over Crossrail, but underneath the escalators that lead down.
I have since seen a cross-section of the station from Liverpool Street to Moorgate and it would appear that a few improvements have been made.
- A pedestrian tunnel is now planned to run between the Crossrail platforms, which will effectively link the escalators at both ends, which connect into the station entrances and ticket halls upstairs.
- It could be possible that the entrance to the station has been moved towards the East.
The interchanges possible at the combined station are best described as comprehensive.
Changing Between Crossrail And The Northern Line
The Northern Line crosses the Moorgate end of the Crossrail platforms at a right angle and it would appear to have a short escalator or step connection to a cross-passage between the two Crossrail platforms.
The only problem, is that you’ll have to make sure, you’re at the Western end of the Crossrail train.
Changing Between Crossrail And The Northern City Line
It would appear that Crossrail and the Northern City Lines are at roughly the same level and are very well connected.
- Passengers would appear to be able to take an escalator or lift from one set of platforms to the ticket hall and then take another set down to the other line.
- There also appears to be another independent passage, which starts midway down the Northern City Line platforms and takes a circuitous route to the Crossrail platforms.
- There may be another convenient route, where you go via the Northern Line and reappear on the other set of platforms.
It certainly won’t be a difficult interchange for passengers, although you’ll have to remember to position yourself at the Western end of the Crossrail train.
Changing Between Crossrail And The Central Line
The Central Line crosses the Liverpool Street end of the Crossrail platforms at a right angle and it would appear to have a short escalator or step connection to a cross-passage between the two Crossrail platforms.
The connection is not as neat as the Northern Line one at the other end of the Crossrail platforms
The only problem, is that you’ll have to make sure, you’re at the Eastern end of the Crossrail train.
Changing Between Liverpool Street And Moorgate
I’ve read somewhere, that the double-ended station is designed so that passengers can walk easily between the two ends of the station.
My view of the cross-section of the station from Liverpool Street to Moorgate confirms it is a feasble route.
- Passengers at Liverpool Street will descend to an intermediate level, from where the Central Line can be accessed.
- A walk of perhaps fifty metres will take you under the Central Line tunnels and to an escalator, that will descend to a wide passage between the Crossrail platforms.
- A walk of perhaps a hundred metres will give several entrances to the Crossrail platforms and take you to an escalator, which takes you to the intermediate level at Moorgate station.
- A level walk of perhaps thirty metres or so, will take you over the Northern Line tunnels and to an escalator, that gives direct access to the booking hall at Moorgate.
So a passenger from perhaps Ipswich to Hatfield on a very wet day, will dive on arrival at Liverpool Street into the Crossrail station and use it as a dry walking route to the Northern City platforms at Moorgate.
I suspect that an Oyster card or a contactless bank card will give free access to the route.
The same route will give Moorgate passengers access to the Central Line and Liverpool Street passengers access to the Northern Line.
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I’m All For More Of This!
This article from Global Rail News is entitled Toronto park plan for downtown railway.
The article describes how Toronto wants to purchase the air rights over a 21-acre railway through the City Centre and put a park on the top.
There are certainly places in the UK, where this approach can be used to create parts, housing or commercial buildings over the railway.
Especially in Londom, where land is so expensive.
Look at this Google Map of the rail lines into Liverpool Street as they pass Shoreditch High Street station on the East London Line.
Lines Through Shoreditch
Surely, a better use could be found for the space above this railway. I estimate this space must be about ten hectares and if properly developed could contain lots of buildings and a green walkway connecting Shoreditch High Street station to Liverpool Street station.
And what about the waste of space that is Euston station?
Euston Station And The Approach Lines
Hopefully adding HS2 to the station will improve things.
Will Shoreditch High Street Be Connected To The Central Line?
Every Londoner has their own personal pet hates about the Underground.
One of mine is the lack of an interchange between the East London Line and the Central line at Shoreditch High Street station. The Central line passes under the East London Line and some web sites say that provision was left in the new station for the connection.
This map from carto.metro.free.fr shows the lines around Shoreditch High Street station.
Shoreditch High Street Station
Note how the Central Line platforms at Liverpool Street are in the South West corner of the map.
Some sites also say that the reason for not building the connection, is that the Central line is too crowded and a decision will not be taken until after Crosrail opens. This is the comment on an article about the connection in London Connections.
Don’t expect an interchange with the Central Line until Crossrail 1 is fully operational. The Central Line in its present, heavily overcrowded, state could not possible cope with even more stations.
Perhaps in about 10 years…
It does sound sensible.
Getting West on the Central Line can be difficult from where I live.
I can take a bus to either Bank or St. Paul’s stations, but coming back is a problem, as the bus stops aren’t well placed.
After Crossrail opens, I might take the same bus to Moorgate for the new line or I could get to Crossrail using the East London Line connection at Whitechapel.
It shows how Crossrail is going to add masses of possible new routes to everybody’s travel in London.
Crossrail links with the Central line at Stratford with a cross-platform interchange and more conventionally at Liverpool Street, Tottenham Court Road, Bond Street and Ealing Broadway.
As the East London Line links to Crossrail at Whitechapel, will passengers going from say Anerley to Epping, be happy with a double change at Whitechapel and Stratford? Especially, as the second one would be just a walk across the platform.
I think they will.
But obviously Transport for London will have all the traffic statistics and would know when creating the Interchange at Shoreditch High Street will be worthwhile.
But looking at the map of the lines at Shoreditch High Street station, leads me to wonder if it would be possible to put in an escalator connection to the Eastern end of the Central Line platforms at Liverpool Street station. This map from carto.metro.free.fr shows the Central Line through both stations in detail.
Liverpool Street And Shoreditch High Street Stations
As all of the office blocks on both sides of Bishopsgate, were planned and designed before Crossrail and the London Overground, I do wonder that if they were being designed now, they would build a travelator connection between Shoreditch High Street and Liverpool Street stations, which incorporated another set of escalators to the Central Line.
Transport for London’s Visitor Centre At Liverpool Street
One of the things that Transport for London said it would do, when it closed Ticket Offices, was to open Visitor Centres at major stations.
This one at Liverpool Street station has been rebranded. It is one of several at main line stations and airports.
I know it was early on a Saturday, but I was the only person looking at what was on offer.
Looking at the London Pass, I think it could be something that a serious visitor would buy.
I can’t help feeling though, that as time progresses, the Visitor Centres in Central London will see fewer and fewer visitors, as London’s contactless ticketing system, will make travel advice something that can be handled easily by the station staff.
I may be wrong, but I think only Liverpool and Edinburgh have proper Visitor Centres. The one in Liverpool is placed on the platform where Virgins arrive from London and the one in Edinburgh is on Princes Street at the top of the escalators from the station.
Every large destination should have a comprehensive Visitor Centre, especially if they are a major interchange to other trains, trams and buses. The oferinmgs in some places is certainly not good enough.
Crossrail Works In Front Of Liverpool Street Station
The archaeologists at Liverpool Street station have departed and work is getting on with the Crossrail works.
I’m glad to see that Crossrail have left the observation gallery.
Archaeology At Liverpool Street
Liverpool Street, just outside the station of the same name, is home to a large archaeology project.
The pictures of the actual dig was taken from a publicly accessible walkway on the South side of the Street.
Liverpool Street To De Beauvoir Town
I regularly do this journey both ways to get to and from the main line station, which I regularly use to get a train to and from Ipswich.
Getting to the station has now got a lot better as the 21 and 141 buses that are the simple way now stop in Eldon Street by the station.
But coming back is getting to be an increasingly variable and difficult journey.
Take last night!
As I was watching Murray’s progress on my phone and the train from Walthamstow Central to Hackney Downs didn’t have any working announcements, I missed by stop in the dark and ended up in Liverpool Street at about nine o’clock. My normal route from the station these days is the reliable one taking the Metropolitan Line to Whitechapel and then getting the Overground to Dalston Junction, from where I get any of a number of buses to my house.
But last night the Overground wasn’t working due to Crossrail works and the last time on a Sunday night, I had walked to Moorgate to get a bus, I’d ended up walking all the way to Old Street to get one and then I’d waited for perhaps twenty minutes.
So I took the Central Line to Bank and luckily a 21 arrived in a few minutes to get me home.
Crossrail and the lengthening of platforms on the Overground, has made the last two or three years difficult, as you never know what you’ll find when you make the journey. Hence my going via Whitechapel, as on most days that is the most reliable.
It would help if Transport for London provided one stop that was never closed, especially as the only one that seems to be there all the time is the one by Bank, which requires a long walk or a one-stop Tube trip.
After Crossrail opens it will get better, as not only will Whitechapel-Liverpool Street be a fast one stop, but surely the 21 and 141 buses will be an easy and perhaps underground and covered walk from Liverpool Street.
Look at this Google Earth map between Liverpool Street and Shoreditch High Street stations.
Liverpool Street And Shoreditch Stations
Liverpool Street station is in the bottom left, where all the indicated Underground lines join and Shoreditch High Street is in the top right on the orange Overground line.
Surely something could be done to create a better walking route between the two stations.
An Idea For A New Station At Shoreditch High Street
I read today in The Sunday Times, that Network Rail are looking to create some new terminal platforms for Liverpool Street.
One of the ideas was the obvious one to add some extra platforms at Liverpool Street. but I know the station well and can’t think where they would be fitted in, unless they were do away with the taxi ramp or put the platforms in tunnels underneath the current ones.
Another idea mentioned in the Sunday Times, is to build a station at Shoreditch High Street on a site owned by Network Rail, next to the current Overground station. The idea is described in the Architect’s Journal.
Terry Farrell’s contentious proposals for Bishopsgate Goodsyard could be sent back to the drawing board after plans emerged for a major new station on the east London site
A report by Network Rail outlining options for rail upgrades on the Anglian Route suggests the City fringe plot could house the first new rail terminus in the capital since the completion of Marylebone in 1899.
The currently uncosted option – part of a document prepared by Network Rail for its future railway investment period CP6 – explores the ‘creation of an additional terminus to the north of London Liverpool Street’ on Network Rail-owned land next to Shoreditch High Street station.
It strikes me that this could be a good idea. Although, it won’t be plain sailing, as there was so much aggravation, when they wanted to demolish the Braithwaite Arches to build the East London Line through the area. This article from Spitalfields Life gives some of the history of the area.
I think if a station gets built alongside or under Shoreditch High Street station, it will be nothing like any ideas, thatr might get talked about in the media now. One of the Foster/Farrell/Rogers fraternity could probably do something extraordinary here.
This map shows the site.
Shoreditch High Street Station
The orange line defines the route of the East London Line and the red line is where the Central line goes underneath. The site itself is the green area between these lines. It would appear that there is quite a bit of space to put in a decent sized station with perhaps four main line platforms, which would be linked to the East London and Central lines.
But it would be a lot of work and money for a station, that would only have limited connection to the Underground/Overground compared to Liverpool Street.
However, look at this wider map of the area.
Old Street To Shoreditch
The first thing to notice is the size of the site, when compared to Liverpool Street station, which lies to the West of Spitalfields Market.
Also note the black line going North-South, which is the Northern line, fom Moorgate to Old Street. The latter is highlighted. Somewhere in the same direction from Moorgate northwards is that relic of previous expansion plans for the Underground; the Northern City line.
I think that if a main line station is built at Shoreditch High Street, it might also connect some of the lines into Liverpool Street to the Moorgate suburban services.
Consider.
1. Railways hate terminal platforms with all their restrictions and much prefer two lines linked end-to-end as Thameslink links Brighton and Bedford via St. Pancras.
2. So could say some of the Lea Valley services be diverted from Liverpool Street to the new station and then onto the Moorgate suburban lines? Not only would it link Silicon Fen with Silicon Roundabout, but also it could be used for the Stansted Express. At the new station, there could be cross-platform interchange between the through lines and the Central line.
3. Original plans showed Crossrail 2 stopping at Essex Road station, which is on Northern City line.
I have only listed three of any number of possibilities, but a new main line station at Shoreditch High Street providing extra capacity for Liverpool Street might be feasible.
On the other hand, it might annoy a lot of the passengers, by giving them inferior onward connections. Remember that many who commute into Liverppol Street, just walk to their place of work.
Something will happen, as Liverpool Street doesn’t have enough capacity, but in my view the first thing to do would be to see how Crossrail affects traffic.
To take one example in a frivolous manner, think of all those Essex boys going to their desks in Canary Wharf, How much will all the other routes possible after Crossrail opens, take the pressure off Liverpool Street?
I think the most likely scenario will be a mixture of all current ideas and proposals together with some no-one has thought of yet.
At a minimum, the addition of two platforms in the cab rank at Liverpool Street .will happen.
I also wouldn’t be surprised to see a couple of platforms on the Lea Valley lines at Shoreditch High Street giving an easy and quick interchange to the East London and Central lines. If nothing else it would link the curremt Overground to the Lea Valley lines and give it a much-needed connection to the Central line.
The Anonymous Widower 