High Speed Two To Manchester
There has been a lot of speculation about the Northern end of High Speed Two, so I might as well add sort out a few facts and add a bit of speculation of my own.
The Current Manchester Piccadilly Services
Currently, there are three trains per hour (tph) between London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly.
The services stop as follows.
- Milton Keynes Central, Rugby, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield and Stockport
- Nuneaton, Stoke-on-Trent and Stockport
- Stafford, Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport
Note.
- One service goes via Crewe.
- Two services go via Stoke-on-Trent.
- All services go via Stockport.
- A London and Manchester Piccadilly train could go via Milton Keynes Central, Nuneaton, Rugby, Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield and Stockport.
- A London and Manchester Piccadilly train could go via Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport.
The two trains detailed would mean that Manchester wouldn’t lose any connectivity.
I would expect that Manchester Piccadilly needs at least three tph to and from London.
This graphic shows High Speed Two services after Phase 2b is completed.
Note.
- Services shown in blue are run by High Speed Two Full Size trains.
- Services shown in yellow are run by High Speed Two Classic-Compatible trains.
- Full Size Services will only run to Manchester Airport and Manchester Piccadilly after Phase 2b is completed to Manchester Piccadilly.
- Classic-Compatible Services will be able to run to to Manchester Piccadilly after Phase 2a is completed.
- Two London and Manchester Piccadilly trains will call at just Old Oak Common and Manchester Airport.
- A third London and Manchester Piccadilly train will call at Old Oak Common, Birmingham International and Manchester Airport.
- Two Birmingham Curzon Street and Manchester Piccadilly trains will call at just Manchester Airport.
- Despite Wilmslow and Stockport being shown in the list of stations on the left hand side of the graphic, no High Speed Two services appear to call at the two stations.
The graphic of High Speed Two services also shows these Full-Size services to Manchester Piccadilly.
- Three tph to London Euston
- Two tph to Birmingham Curzon Street
Some or all of these services will surely be run by High Speed Two Classic-Compatible trains.
What services will run to Manchester between the opening of Phase 2a and the opening of Phase 2b?
I will now give some possibilities for services.
London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Crewe, Wilmslow And Stockport
I shall look at the 07:33 train to Manchester Piccadilly on the 20th September 2023.
- It was a service via Stafford, Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport
- It was a nine-car Class 390 train or Pendolino, which left on time.
- Euston and Manchester Piccadilly are 188.9 miles apart.
- The train called at Crewe at 09:08 and left at 09:10.
- The average speed between London Euston and Crewe is 70.7 mph.
- The train arrived in Manchester Piccadilly on time at 09:44.
- The journey took two hours and 11 minutes
- The average speed was 86.5 mph.
- The Crewe and Manchester Piccadilly section is 30.9 miles and the train is scheduled to take 34 minutes.
- The average speed between Crewe and Manchester Piccadilly is 54.5 mph.
- The example train slows past Crewe because of two stops at Wilmslow and Stockport.
When Phase 2a of High Speed Two opens a replacement for this service via Crewe, could operate as follows.
- It could use High Speed Two between and Crewe.
- It could use the current route between Crewe and Manchester Piccadilly.
- It would probably use a 200 metre long High Speed Two Classic-Compatible trains.
- I wouldn’t be surprised, that the current Pendolino service between Euston and Manchester Piccadilly via Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport was retired.
- The new High Speed Two service could take over the path currently used by the current Pendolino service, between Crewe and Manchester Piccadilly.
- The train could stop at Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport as required.
- If it stopped at Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport, it would restore some of the connectivity to smaller places.
According to the Wikipedia entry for High Speed Two, these will be the timings.
- London Euston and Crewe – 56 minutes
- London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly Phase 2a – One hour and 30 minutes
- London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly Phase 2b – One hour and 11 minutes
From these figures and the times of the 07:33, I can deduce these journey times for trains via Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport.
- Currently, Crewe and Manchester Piccadilly takes 34 minutes.
- High Speed Two after Phase 2a will also take 34 minutes.
I am surprised that sectional timings on this section of the West Coast Main Line are the same as current timings. Digital signalling and the faster acceleration and deceleration of the new trains, are quite likely to decrease times.
Because they are both 34 minutes, does that mean that services will stop at Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport?
London and Macclesfield Via Stafford And Stoke-on-Trent
This map of High Speed Two in North West England was captured from the interactive map on the High Speed Two web site.
Note.
- The map dates from around October 2020.
- The current West Coast Main Line (WCML) and Phase 2a of High Speed Two are shown in blue.
- Phase 2b of High Speed Two is shown in orange.
- The main North-South route, which is shown in blue, is the WCML passing through Crewe, Warrington Bank Quay and Wigan North Western as it goes North.
- The Western Branch, which is shown in blue, is the Liverpool Branch of the WCML, which serves Runcorn and Liverpool.
- High Speed Two, which is shown in orange, takes a faster route between Crewe and Wigan North Western.
- The Eastern Branch, which is shown in orange, is the Manchester Branch of High Speed Two, which serves Manchester Airport and Manchester Piccadilly.
- The route in the East, which is shown in blue, is the Macclesfield Branch of High Speed Two, which serves Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent and Macclesfield.
The route of Northern Powerhouse Rail between Manchester Airport and Liverpool has still to be finalised.
The London and Macclesfield service is as follows.
- There will be one tph
- There are intermediate stops at Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent.
- Macclesfield has a long electrified bay platform, which looks like it will take a 200 m High Speed Two Classic-Compatible train.
- Macclesfield Station And High Speed Two has pictures of the station.
- Four tph operate between Stoke-on-Trent and Manchester Piccadilly via Macclesfield.
- Timings from London would be 55 minutes to Stafford, 70 minutes to Stoke-on-Trent and 90 minutes to Macclesfield.
In some ways, I was surprised about this High Speed Two service.
But it does give an easy connection to Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent.
London and Manchester Piccadilly via Macclesfield, Stafford And Stoke-on-Trent
Currently, Avanti West Coast run a service between London and Manchester which runs as follows.
- It calls at Milton Keynes Central, Rugby, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield and Stockport
- It also passes through Watford Junction, Nuneaton, Tamworth and Lichfield Trent Valley.
- It could pass through Stafford.
- It would mean that Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent were served by 2 tph.
- It is run by a Pendolino.
- It has a frequency of 1 tph.
- The current service takes two hours and 6 minutes.
- A few minutes would be added for each extra stop.
I believe it could be a very useful service.
I wonder if it could be run as a complimentary service to High Speed Two to serve more places on the route.
A Second High Speed Two Service Between London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Crewe, Wilmslow And Stockport
So far, I have mapped out three possible services.
- High Speed Two – London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Crewe, Wilmslow And Stockport – One hour and thirty minutes
- High Speed Two – London and Macclesfield Via Stafford and Stoke – One hour and thirty minutes
- Pendolino – London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Milton Keynes Central, Rugby, Nuneaton, Tamworth, Lichfield Trent Valley, Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield and Stockport – Two hours and 6 minutes plus 4 minutes for each extra stop.
I suspect that four tph could be a good frequency.
The simplest extra service would probably be another High Speed Two London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Crewe, Wilmslow And Stockport.
But it could be another Pendolino service to serve more places.
I believe a service pattern could be arranged with these features.
- Major cities and towns between London and Manchester have at least two tph.
- A larger number of towns and cities have at least one tph.
Note that many stations on the route already have Pendolino services.
Phase 2b Would Be The Ultimate Solution
Phase 2b which will involve a tunnel via Manchester Airport to new platforms in Manchester Piccadilly could be the ultimate solution.
Phase 2b is also needed so that full-size High Speed Two trains can be run to Manchester Piccadilly.
But it will be difficult, expensive and disruptive to build.
Conclusion
I believe it could be easy to plan four services between London and Manchester Piccadilly or Macclesfield.
- High Speed Two Full-Size train – London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Crewe, Wilmslow And Stockport – One hour and eleven minutes
- High Speed Two Classic-Compatible train – London and Macclesfield Via Stafford and Stoke – One hour and thirty minutes
- High Speed Two Full-Size train – London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Crewe, Wilmslow And Stockport – One hour and eleven minutes
- Pendolino – London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Milton Keynes Central, Rugby, Nuneaton, Tamworth, Lichfield Trent Valley, Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield and Stockport – Two hours and 6 minutes plus 4 minutes for each extra stop.
Note.
Services 1 and 3 are identical, but don’t need to be.
Service 4 could be run by a High Speed Two Classic-Compatible train.
See Also
Could High Speed Two Finish At Lichfield?
Proposed High-Speed Two Services Are Not Complete
This diagram shows High Speed Two services.
Note.
- Trains to the left of the vertical black line are Phase 1 and those to the right are Phase 2.
- Full-Size trains are shown in blue.
- Classic-Compatible trains are shown in yellow.
- The dotted circles are where trains split and join.
- In the red boxes routes alternate every hour.
Click on the diagram to enlarge it.
Are The Services Incomplete Or Has Someone Left Something Out?
Look at trains 4, 5 and 6.
- Train 4 is a pair of Classic-Compatible trains, which split at Crewe, with one going to Liverpool Lime Street and the other to Lancaster.
- Train 5 is a single Classic-Compatible train, that goes to Liverpool Lime Street.
- Train 6 is a single Classic-Compatible train, that goes to Macclesfield.
As an example, Train 5 could be a pair of Classic-Compatible trains, which split at Crewe, with one going to Liverpool Lime Street and the other to Chester, Llandudno, Bangor and Holyhead. I actually believe that this would be a way of creating a low-carbon route to Dublin, with a zero-carbon high-speed ferry from Holyhead.
What to do with Train 6 is more difficult.
- Stafford and Stoke need to be served by High Speed Two.
- Stafford, Stoke and Macclesfield are not stations with long platforms, so may not be suitable places to split a pair of Classic-Compatible trains.
- Places North of Macclesfield to terminate trains are not numerous and probably only Manchester and Huddersfield may be suitable.
The alternative might be to split a pair of Classic-Compatible trains forming Train 6 at Birmingham Interchange, one going to Stafford, Stoke and Macclesfield and the other going to Blackburn, Blackpool, Crewe, Lancaster, Liverpool or Preston
Thoughts On Phase 2a Of High Speed Two
This map shows the route of Phase 2a of High Speed Two.
Note.
- The blue circles are stations.
- From the top, the stations are Crewe, Stoke-on-Trent, Stafford, Birmingham Curzon Street and Birmingham Interchange.
- The lighter blue track is sections of the West Coast Main Line, that will be used by High Speed Two services.
- The darker blue track is Phase 1 of High Speed Two.
- The orange track is Phase 2b of High Speed Two to East Midlands Hub, Leeds and Sheffield.
- The mauve track is Phase 2a of High Speed Two.
This page on the High Speed Two web site, which is entitled Phase 2a: West Midlands To Crewe, says this about the building and opening of Phase 2a.
It will be built at the same time as the line between London and the West Midlands. High speed services will begin operating between London, Birmingham and Crewe between 2029 and 2033.
It is my opinion, to build Phase 1 and Phase 2a together is a good move.
- Crewe is a very well-connected station.
- It will reduce times between Crewe and London Euston by 34 minutes.
But most importantly, it completes a second separate route for the West Coast Main Line between Crewe and London Euston.
Just think what new bypasses and motorways have done for your driving.
These are some thoughts and observations.
West Coast Main Line Benefits
The High Speed Two web page, which is entitled Phase 2a: West Midlands To Crewe, has a section called West Coast Main Line Benefits, where this is said.
Phase 2a unlocks more rail capacity on the West Coast mainline. It will carry six long distance high speed services per hour, freeing up the West Coast Mainline between Lichfield and Crewe. This could see services rise from hourly to half-hourly or better between Crewe and Stoke-on-Trent to Nuneaton, Tamworth, Lichfield and Rugeley, as well as more services from Crewe to Runcorn and Liverpool, as well as via Crewe between North Wales, Chester and London.
It would appear the six long-distance services could be.
- Train 1 – London Euston and Lancaster – Splits and joins with Train 2 at Crewe.
- Train 2 – London Euston and Liverpool – Splits and joins with Train 1 at Crewe.
- Train 3 – London Euston and Liverpool – Single train
- Train 4 – London Euston and Edinburgh/Glasgow – Splits and joins at Carlisle for Edinburgh and Glasgow
- Train 5 – London Euston and Edinburgh/Glasgow – Splits and joins at Carlisle for Edinburgh and Glasgow
- Train 6 – Birmingham Curzon Street and Edinburgh/Glasgow – Serves Edinburgh and Glasgow alternately.
Note that all services use a single or a pair of High Speed Two Classic Compatible trains.
A High Speed Test Route Can Be Created
Consider.
- At the Northern end of the Phase 2a track is Crewe station.
- At the Southern end of the Phase 2a track is Birmingham Interchange station.
- The track between the two end stations will be newly-laid modern high speed track capable of 225 mph running.
- There will be no intermediate stations or Victorian throwbacks like level crossings.
- The only junctions are at the end of the route.
- If the High Speed Two trains are built in this country, there will be a need for somewhere to check them out.
The Phase 2a track will surely make an ideal test track for testing trains and systems and training drivers.
HS2 Moves Stafford Ahead At High-Speed
The title of this post, is the same as that of this article on StokeonTrentLive.
It seems a positive headline in comparison to some you usually see about High Speed Two.
The subtitle doesn’t have any negative words either.
Construction has begun on the first section and there will be a community and business roadshow this August to find out more.
Perhaps people from Staffordshire have a positive outlook on life.
After all, with respect to High Speed Two, Stoke will be one of the first two cities in the country outside London to receive a high speed service.
Stoke might even be first!
The Anonymous Widower 