New Livery For Class 378 Trains
I took these pictures of a Class 378 train with new the new livery and seat covers on two trips into Dalston Junction station.
Who is or was Daks Hamilton?
Whilst searching for the answer to my question, I found this December 2009 article on Rail Magazine, which is entitled A Benchmark For Inner Suburban Trains. Richard Clinnock; the author finishes the article with these paragraphs.
So what is the final verdict? Simple: these trains are superb. They may seem to be fairly basic with few seats and no bins, but then they are about moving large numbers of people over relatively short distances.
Bombardier has delivered a train it can be proud of, and has really set the benchmark for future designs for inner suburban trains.
His verdict is still valid and nearly nine years on , the Capitalstars are still trundling reliably, in a circle around London.
But except for the Class 345 and Class 710 trains for Crossrail and the Overground respectively, no operator or transport authority in the UK, has followed London’s bold step of bench seats along the sides of the train.
You do see this layout in Europe, but often with hard one-piece plastic seats, that should be burned to generate electricity.
I think that Transport for London and Bombardier took, what they knew worked from the train-builder’s superb S stock for the sub-surface lines of the Underground and applied it to the new trains for an outstanding success.
If this type of seating works in London, why has it not been specified on new trains for Merseyrail and the Tyne and Wear Metro.
The Future Of The Class 378 Trains
London Overground have a problem with the new Class 710 trains, in that they can’t work the East London Line, as they have no emergency access that can be used in the Thames Tunnel.
So it looks like for the foreseeable future, Class 378 trains will be needed to work the East London Line.
Interior Update
The trains need wi-fi and USB sockets.
Vivarail have put USB sockets in Class 230 trains.
A similar setup in the armrests of a Class 378 train would be welcome.
This is the armrest in a Class 378 train.
Could it be modified to include a USB socket?
Will The East London Line Ever Get Six-Car Trains?
On the East London Line yesterday, I was in the front car and it was noticeable how passengers moved backwards and forwards along the train so they could find a seat and also get in and out easily at the stations with short platforms.
It got me thinking, about whether six-car trains could be run on the East London Line.
Before I discuss this, I’ll give a few facts. Some are history and some are future plans.
The Original Line
I can remember taking the London Underground era line between New Cross Gate and Whitechapel stations, to get between Haywards Heath and Mile End stations. I had a client at the former and my youngest son, used to live by the latter.
The trains were four-car A60/62 Stock with a length of just 65 metres!
There were five intermediate stations, which coming North were as follows.
- Surray Quays
- Canada Water
- Rotherhithe
- Wapping
- Shadwell
The platforms and those at Whitechapel, were probably not much longer than the original trains.
The platforms have been improved in recent years.
- When the Jubilee Line was built, Canada Water station was rebuilt, but the platforms on the East London Line were not substantially lengthened.
- When the Overground was created in the early part of this century, the platforms ended up at their current length of around eighty metres.
- Recently, to create a better interchange for Crossrail, the platforms at Whitechapel station have been lengthened to around a hundred metres.
So there is now four short platforms on the East London Line.
The Class 378 Trains
The Class 378 trains were originally ordered as three-car trains, which were about sixty metres long.
Was this short length to fit the short platforms or was it because it was felt that these trains would be adequate for the route?
By the time, the trains entered service in 2010, the trains had all been extended to four-cars.
But this was still inadequate and in 2013 an order was placed to lengthen all trains to five cars, which was completed in January 2016.
Fitting Five-Car Trains Into Four-Car Platforms
Travel in the last coach of a train between Shadwell and Canada Water stations and when a station stop is made, you are left in the tunnel.
Some or all the doors don’t open and a announcement tells you, that if you want to get out, you should move forward in the train. This picture shows the last carriages of a train at Canada Water station.
The less-than-perfect arrangement works very well.
- The walk-through nature of the trains means passengers can easily walk forward if required.
- The announcements are numerous and clear.
- Only Canada Water station, with its interchange to the Jubilee Line is a busy station.
But what probably makes the system work so well, is the fact that East Londoners are the World Champions at ducking and diving and they adjust their behaviour to the less-than-perfect arrangement.
The Length Of The Northern Platforms
Travelling home to Dalston Junction station in the last carriage, I got the impression, that all platforms are built to comfortably accept five-car trains.
It also appears that the two central bay platforms at Dalston Junction station were built for five-car trains.
This picture shows Platform 2 at Dalston Junction station.
The Length Of The Southern Platforms
I have looked at nearly all the Southern platforms on all four Southern branches and there seems to be few if any platforms, that couldn’t take a six-car train. It should be noted that most platforms are shared with Southern services which are run by longer trains.
These pictures show Sydenham station.
Platform lengths like these are typical of many stations.
Work would be needed at Platform 2 at Clapham Junction station.
But there is space to extend the platform.
There are no problems at West Croydon station, where it seems all trains now use the bay Platform 1.
There appear to be no plans to increase services to West Croydon station from four tph, but turning the trains in the bay platform might make scheduling easier.
The Rebuilding Of Whitechapel Station
Whitechapel station is being rebuilt to provide an interchange between Crossrail, the District and Hammersmith & City Lines and the East London Line.
- The rebuilt East London Line platforms appear to be long enough for six-car trains.
- There will be two footbridges over the East London Line.
- There will be lifts and possibly escalators.
It will be a major high-capacity interchange.
The connection to Crossrail at Whitechapel station may actually take pressure from the Canada Water station.
Will passengers from the Northern section of the East London Line change at Whitechapel for Crossrail, if they are going to the West End or Canary Wharf, rather than using the Jubilee Line from Canada Water station.
As Crossrail will open up a large number of new routes, I believe, Whitechapel station will become one of the most important interchanges in East London.
East London Line Frequency Will Be Increased
This table shows Transport for London’s plas for the London Overground.
Note.
- In 2018, two extra trains per hour (tph) are planned to be run between Dalston Junction and Crystal Palace.
- In 2019, two extra tph are planned to be run between Dalston Junction and Clapham Junction.
This will mean that the frequency through the core of the East London Line will rise from 16 tph to 20 tph. This will be a train every three minutes.
It also means that the London Overground will be running ten tph between Whitechapel and Sydenham stations, with a call at New Cross Gate, which could become an important interchange.
Platforms Would Need To Be Lengthened
I think that, unless someone can come up with an innovative solution, that there will need to be some platform l;lengthening to accommodate six car trains on the East Londoin Line.
The tricky problem would be extending the platforms at Shadwell, Wapping, Rotherhithe and Canada Water stations.
Could Frequencies Be Increased?
After the increase of frequencies to Crystal Palace and Clapham Junction to four tph, there will be twenty tph, through the core of the East London Line.
With five-car trains, this would be a hundred cars per hour and with six-car trains, it would be 120 cars per hour.
Suppose another four tph, were to be squeezed through the core, then this would be 24 tph. With five-car trains, this would be 120 cars per hour.
There would be two main alternatives to increase the frequency.
- Run six tph on all the four routes.
- Add a new route, with a frequency of four tph.
Note.
- Twenty-four tph, is a frequency that is proposed for Crossrail and Thameslink using digital signalling.
- There will be one train every two and a half minutes.
- No major engineering work would be required at the stations with short platforms.
I very much feel, that increasing the frequency of trains, will be more affordable than using six-car trains.
The Problem Of Creating Six-Car Trains
Note these points about running trains through the core of the East London Line.
- Class 378 trains have an end door, so that passengers can be evacuated in the Thames Tunnel.
- Aventras don’t have end doors and would need to be updated.
- Five-car Class 378 trains can be replaced by Aventras on the North London Line and the Watford DC Line, to release more trains for the East London Line.
But the biggest problem, is probably that Bombardier don’t make Electrostars any more, and the factory ihas been turned over to Aventra production.
Conclusion
I will be very surprised if Network Rail’s original plan on six-car trains on the East London Line happens in the next few years.
Capacity Of Cross London Rail Routes
I shall start by looking at the current and future capacity of various rail routes across London.
Bakerloo
The Bakerloo Line has a frequency of twenty trains per hour (tph) between Queen’s Park and Elephant & Castle stations.
The current 1972 Stock trains have a capacity of 700 passengers.
This gives a capacity a 14,000 passengers per hour (pph) in each direction.
In the Wikipedia entry for the New Tube for London, this is said.
Bakerloo line capacity could be increased by 25% with 27 trains per hour at peak times by 2033.
This gives a future capacity of 17,500 pph in each direction.
Central
The Central Line has a frequency of thirty-five tph between White City and Leytonstone stations.
The current 1992 Stock trains have a capacity of 930 passengers.
This gives a capacity a 32,550 pph in each direction.
In the Wikipedia entry for the New Tube for London, this is said.
Central line capacity increased by 25% with 33 trains per hour at peak times by 2030.
This gives a future capacity of 40,687 pph in each direction.
Crossrail
Crossrail is planned at present to have twenty-four tph between Paddington and Whitechapel stations.
Each of Crossrail’s Class 345 trains can hold 1,500 passengers.
This gives a capacity a 36,000 pph in each direction.
It has been said in several places that Crossrail has a future frequency of thirty tph.
If this could be achieved this would increase capacity to 45,000 pph in each direction.
District
The District Line has a combined frequency with the Circle Line of twenty-four tph between Gloucester Road and Tower Hill stations.
The current S7 Stock trains have a capacity of 865 passengers.
This gives a combined capacity a 20,760 pph in each direction.
The Wikipedia entry for the District Line talks about a future frequency of thirty-two tph.
This could increase the future capacity to 27,680 pph in each direction.
East London
The East London Line has a frequency of sixteen tph between Dalston Junction and Surrey Quays stations.
The current Class 378 trains have a capacity of 840 passengers.
This gives a capacity of 13,440 pph in each direction.
London Overground are planning to increase the frequency to twenty tph in the next couple of years.
This would give an increased capacity if 16,800 pph in each direction.
Gospel Oak To Barking
The Gospel Oak To Barking Line has a frequency of four tph across North London,
The current Class 172 trains have a capacity of 120 seats, with perhaps a total capacity of 300.
This would give a capacity of 1,200 pph in each direction.
The new Class 710 trains have a capacity around 700, according to various reports.
This would give a future capacity if 2,800 pph in each direction.
Hammersmith & City
The Hammersmith & City Line has a combined frequency with the Circle Line of twelve tph between Paddington and Liverpool Street stations.
The current S7 Stock trains have a capacity of 865.
This gives a combined capacity of 10,380 pph in each direction.
Jubilee
The Jubilee Line has a frequency of thirty tph between North Greenwich and Willesden Green stations.
The current 1996 Stock trains have a capacity of 875 passengers.
This gives a capacity of 26,250 pph in each direction.
With Siemens new trains, I suspect that this value could be increased by perhaps fifteen percent to 30,187 pph in each direction.
Metropolitan
The Metropolitan Line has an Off Peak frequency of sixteen tph between Baker Street and Liverpool Street stations.
The current S8 Stock trains have a capacity of 1003.
This gives a combined capacity a 16.048 pph in each direction.
With the Metropolitan Line Upgrade, we can probably see some more capacity.
A not unreasonable twenty percent would raise the future capacity to 19,257 pph in each direction.
Northern
In the Peak both branches of the Northern Line have a frequency of twenty-four tph between Camden Town and Kennington stations.
This is reduced to twenty tph in the Off Peak.
With the addition of the Extension to Battersea, these figures are unlikely to get lower.
The current 1195 Stock trains have a capacity of 662 passengers.
This gives a capacity of 31,776 pph in each direction.
With Siemens new trains, I suspect that this value could be increased by perhaps fifteen percent to 36,542 pph in each direction.
North London
The North London Line has a frequency of eight tph between Willesden Junction and Stratford stations.
The current Class 378 trains have a capacity of 840 passengers.
This gives a capacity a 6,720 pph in each direction.
London Overground are possibly planning to increase the frequency to twelve tph in the next couple of years.
This would give an increased capacity if 10,080 pph in each direction.
Piccadilly
As we don’t know the capacity of the new Siemens trains, this is a best estimate, for when they are in service around 2023-2025.
Currently, the Piccadilly Line is running at a frequency of twenty-four tph between Barons Court and Arnos Grove stations.
The current 1973 Stock trains, each have a capacity of 684 passengers.
This gives a current capacity of 15,416 pph in each direction.
In the Wikipedia entry for the New Tube for London, this is said.
Piccadilly line capacity could be increased by 60% with 33 trains per hour at peak times by 2025.
This gives a 2025 capacity of 24,666 pph in each direction.
Dividing the 24,666 by 33 gives a train capacity of 750 passengers for a New Tube for London.
Thameslink
Thameslink will have a frequency of twenty-four tph between St. Pancras and Blackfriars stations.
Half of these will be twelve-car Class 700 trains with a capacity of 1754 and the other half will be eight-car trains with a capacity of 1146.
This gives a capacity of 34,800 pph in each direction.
It has been stated that Thameslink will be able to handle thirty tph in the future, which would raise the capacity to 43,500 pph in each direction.
Victoria
The Victoria Line is currently running at a frequency of thirty-six tph.
The current 2009 Stock trains, each have a capacity of 876 passengers.
This gives a capacity of 31,536 pph in each direction.
I think it is reasonable to assume that the Victoria Line is at capacity.
But I wouldn’t be surprised, that with station improvements, which would include a double-ended Walthamstow Central station, engineers on Dear Old Vicky managed to squeeze forty tph out of the old girl.
This would give a capacity of 35,040 pph in each direction.
I also wouldn’t rule out replacing the current trains with the New Tube for London, if the new trains have proved an outstanding success on all the other lines. But that probably wouldn’t be to well into the 2030s.
Current And Future Summary And Total Capacity
The current figures in passengers per hour can be summarised as follows.
- Bakerloo – 14,000
- Central – 32,550
- Crossrail – 36,000
- District – 20,760
- East London – 13,440
- Gospel Oak To Barking – 1,200
- Hammersmith & City – 10,380
- Jubilee – 26,250
- Metropolitan – 16,048
- Northern – 31,776
- North London – 6,720
- Piccadilly – 15,416
- Thameslink – 34,800
- Victoria – 31,536
This gives a total current capacity of 290,876
Reasonable projections for future figures can be summarised as follows.
- Bakerloo – 17,500 (25% Increase) – New Tube for London/New Signalling
- Central – 40,687 (25% Increase) – New Tube for London/New Signalling
- Crossrail – 45,000 (25% Increase) – 30 tph from 24 tph
- District – 27,680 (33% Increase) – New Signalling
- East London – 16,800 (25% Increase) – 20 tph from 16 tph
- Gospel Oak To Barking – 2,800 (133% Increase) – New larger trains
- Hammersmith & City – 10,380
- Jubilee – 30,187 (15% Increase) – New Tube for London
- Metropolitan – 19257 (20% Increase) – New Signalling
- Northern – 36,542 (15% Increase) – New Tube for London
- North London – 10,080 (50% Increase)
- Piccadilly – 24666 (60% Increase) – New Tube for London/New Signalling
- Thameslink – 43,500(25% Increase) – 30 tph from 24 tph
- Victoria – 31,536
This gives a total future capacity of 356615
Or a capacity increase of around twenty-three percent.
What Do These Figures Show?
My figures are very much rough estimates, based on what is proposed to happen.
New Tube for London
Five of the improvements in capacity require the replacement of the current trains with the New Tube for London. Three of these replacements will need new signalling and only the Piccadilly Line trains have actually been given the go-ahead.
If these train replacements and signalling are done sequentially, they would show these overall capacity improvements.
- Piccadilly – 3.2%
- Central – 2.6%
- Bakerloo – 1.1%
- Jubilee – 1.3%
- Northern – 1.5%
Overall, these five projects will increase capacity by 10.2%
Some of these figures may appear small, compared to the Piccadilly and Central, but then with the exception of the Bakerloo, the other lines already have Automatic Train Control and high-frequency services.
The great thing about the effects of the New Tube for London on capacity, is that it is a rolling program and as each line is converted, more capacity will continue to be added, benefiting many parts of London.
Digital Signalling
Increasingly, lines in London are digitally-signalled with a degree of Automatic Train Control.
In a few years time, these lines will be controlled this way in Central London.
- Central
- Circle
- Crossrail
- District
- Hamersmith & City
- Jubilee
- Metropolitan
- Northern
- Piccadilly
- Thameslink
- Victoria
All these lines are or will be carriers of high numbers of passengers.
In A North London Line With Digital Signalling, I looked at the benefits of installing digital signalling on the North London Line. This was my conclusion.
It looks to me, that they’ll come a time, when digital signalling to squeeze the required number of trains along the North London Line.
Digital signalling will have to be applied to all the other lines in my list to make the most of the train lines we have in London.
Bakerloo
These lines will be given new signalling
- Bakerloo – 17,500 (25% Increase)
- Central – 40,687 (25% Increase)
- District – 27,680 (33% Increase)
- Hammersmith & City – 10,380
- Metropolitan – 19257 (20% Increase)
- Piccadilly – 24666 (60% Increase)
Of the deep level Underground lines, the Bakerloo Line is well below the capacity in passengers per hour (pph) of the other lines, through Central London.
The easiest way to increase the capacity would be to increase the frequency of the trains, by the application of digital signalling.
Earlier in the section on the Piccadilly Line, I calculated the capacity of each New Tube for London on that line as 750.
So if the Bakerloo Line could handle the thirty-six tph currently running on the Victoria Line, this would give a capacity of 23,333 pph in each direction.
Like the Victoria Line, the Bakerloo is a simple double-track without junctions through Central London.
At the Southern end the line terminates in the two platforms at Elephant & Castle station. If Brixton and Walthamstow Central stations can handle thirty-six tph, then surely with modern trains and digital signalling, this number of trains can be handled at Elephant & Castle station.
But at Queen’s Park station, it’s more difficult.
This map from carto.metro.free.fr shows the track layou at Queens Park station.
Note.
- The Watford DC Line of the Overground is shown in orange and runs through Kilburn High Road and Queens Park stations.
- The Bakerloo Line is shown in brown and runs through Kilburn Park and Queens Park stations.
- There are reversing sidings to the West of Queens Park station for the Bakerloo Line.
The following services go through or terminate at Queens Park station.
- Three tph between Euston and Watford Junction on the London Overground.
- Six tph between Harrow & Wealdstone and Elephant & Castle on the Bakerloo Line.
- Three tph between Stonebridge Park and Elephant & Castle on the Bakerloo Line.
- Eleven tph between qQueens Park and Elephant & Castle on the Bakerloo Line.
It is also likely that the Overground service will go to four tph.
So this means that services will be as follows.
- Four tph on the Watford DC Line run through Kilburn High Road station.
- Twenty tph on the Bakerloo Line run through Kilburn Park station.
- Nine tph on the Bakerloo Line run through Queens Park station.
- Four tph on the Watford DC Line run through Queens Park station.
- Eleven tph on the Bakerloo Line terminate at Queens Park station.
Thirteen tph will continue to various destinations towards Watford.
So how many trains could the double-track line between Queens Park and Wartford Junction stations handle?
Consider.
- All services on the line are london Overground or London Underground.
- There are no junctions, where services divide and join.
- There is a turnback facility at Harrow & Wealdstone station, that can handle six tph.
- The Overground trains are being replaced with Class 710 trains, which must be able to be made compatible with digital signalling.
- Watford Junction station has four platforms connected to the Watford DC Line.
- Good design should be able to make the stations step-free for both Class 710 trains and New Tube for London.
- The Watford DC Line service, always seems to terminate in platform 9 at Euston.
- London Underground have run thirty-six tph on the Victoria Line for about a year now.
I suspect that if the trains are digitally signalled, with a degree of Automatic Train Control, that there could be as many as thirty-six tph between Queens Park and Watford Junction stations.
I also think it is significant that the New Tube for London, specifies that the Bakerloo Line will run at twenty-seven tph. Why not more, if the theoretical capacity North of Queens Park is thirty-six tph?
But a single platform at Euston can probably handle six tph, so add 27 and 6 and you get 33 tph, which is the proposed core frequency of the Piccadilly Line.
Suppose too, that all Bakerloo services ran all the way to Watford Junction.
- This would simplify operation at Queens Park, Stonebridge Park and Harrow & Waldstone.
- Digital signalling would easily handle the frequency.
- The platform arrangement at Queens Park would be unchanged, with Euston services on the outside and Bakerloo services in the middle.
Suppose too, that the Watford DC Line service were to be run by New Tube for London trains.
- All platform heights could be the same.
- All services would be step-free between train and platform.
- Digital signalling could easily handle 33 tph along the route.
This last section has very much been speculation on my part, but it shows how it may be possible to create a service on the Bakerloo Line with the following characteristics.
- Twenty-seven tph between Watford Junction and Elephant & Castle stations.
- Six tph between Watford Junction and Euston stations.
- All stations would be step-free between platform and train.
- All trains would be identical New Tube for London trains.
- All trains would run under Automatic Train Control, as does the Victoria Line.
Note, that I have said nothing about the Bakerloo Extension to Lewisham.
In my view, that extension does what it says on the tin and creates a new twenty-seven tph service between Elephant & Castle and Lewisham, which brings new services to an area of South-East London, where they are much needed.
Effectively, the Bakerloo Line could become two twenty-seven tph lines, that happen to connect back-to-back at Elephant & Castle station to enable cross-London journeys.
If we look at the Victoria Line, where the frequency has increased over the last few years by the addition of various improvements, I would not be surprised to see the frequency of twenty-seven tph increased.
After all London Underground’s engineers have been squeezing Dear Old Vicky for half a century, so they must know more tricks, than Paul Daniels knew at the peak of his success.
Crossrail
Taking the figures in the current table, Crossrail will add 36,000 pph in both directions across London, to a current capacity of 254,876.
This is a increase of fourteen percent on the current total capacity.
Increasing the frequency from twenty-four to thirty tph, adds another 9,000 pph in each direction, which is an increase of seventeen percent on the current total capacity.
It is very likely, that Crossrail has been designed, so that the train length can be changed as required.
The initial trains have been supplied as seven-car trains and when the line opens nine-car trains will be used.
I have read somewhere that the trains could be extended to ten cars, but eleven might be a bit difficult.
So what would be the effect on capacity of ten-car trains.
I will assume each ten-car train has a capacity of 1500 *10 / 9 = 1667.
This means that Crossrail capacity is increased as follows with ten-car trains.
- 24 tph gives a capacity of 40,000 pph in each direction. Or sixteen percent on the total current capacity!
- 30 tph gives a capacity of 50,000 pph in each direction. Or twenty percent on the total current capacity!
It looks like Crossrail might have been built to be expanded.
East London Line
It is my view that the East London Line will eventually be digitally signalled and there could be an increase in frequency from the proposed twenty tph.
It has been stated in the past, that the East London Line will eventually have a service based on six-car trains, running at a frequency of twenty-four tph.
Six-car trains could be a problem, as some of the stations like Canada Water, Shadwell, Wapping and Rotherhithe are a bit short for five-car trains and use selective door opening.
The hopefully high-capacity connection to Crossrail at Whitechapel station will surely drive more passengers to use the East London Line.
So increasing the frequency to twenty-four tph using digital signalling would be an option to increase the capacity.
There are four separate services on the East London Line.
- Dalston Junction and New Cross
- Dalston Junction and Clapham Junction
- Highbury & Islington and Crystal Palace
- Highbury & Islington and West Croydon
Each currently has a srvice of four tph, but it is planned that six tph will run to Crystal Palace and Clapham Junction before 2020.
Note that all services terminate in a dedicated platform, that is not shared with other services.
With modern signalling and good driving, these platforms should be able to handle six tph.
If all services went to six tph, that would mean twenty-four tph, through the core of the East London Line.
This would mean that the capacity of the line would be 20,160 pph in each direction, which would be a fifty percent increase on current capacity.
There may even be space for more trains through the core, as thirty tph is certainly possible with digital signalling. But where would the trains terminate?
Extra tunnel-capable Class 378 trains to run the extra services shouldn’t be a problem, as new Class 710 trains, will displace the older units from the Watford DC and the North London Lines.
North London Line
It is my view that the North London Line will eventually be digitally signalled to allow a more intensive passenger service than eight tph, amongst all the freight trains.
I have said that twelve tph between Willesden Junction and Stratford will be possible, within a few years.
But this could be the limit for the following reasons.
- Terminating twelve tph in the two platforms at Stratford is probably possible but difficult.
- Clapham Junction with one platform can probably handle six tph but no more.
Only Richmond has enough capacity for extra trains.
Conclusion
It looks to me that digital signalling and well-designed new trains can improve the capacity across London. Or Liverpool, Newcastle or Berlin to name just three major cities.
At Least Three Class 710 Trains Were Hiding At Willesden TMD
Today, I spotted at least three Class 710 trains hiding behind Willesden TMD.
You certainly can’t miss them with their orange fronts.
Latest On The New London Overground Class 710 Trains
The August 2018 Edition of Modern Railways has a two-page article on the latest on the new Class 710 trains for the London Overground.
Seating Arrangement
Wikipedia says this about the seating.under Background And Specifications.
The units will be delivered in two sub-classes; an AC-only version with longitudinal and transverse seating (very similar to the S8 units on the Metropolitan line of the London Underground) for use on the West Anglia and Romford-Upminster services, and a dual-voltage version with longitudinal seating for the Watford DC and GOBLIN services.
But it now appears that all the seats on the trains will be longitudinal ones.
I use the current trains a lot to go to Walthamstow and I also use the Class 378 trains, which have longitudinal seats, frequently on the North and East London Lines of the Overground.
I probably aren’t bothered too much about longitudinal seats, but I suspect there will be others who will complain.
This discussion of RailForums is entitled Annoying Things About The Class 378. Search for “seat” and you don’t find many complaints about the longitudinal seating, which is also used on much of the Underground.
On the other hand, if all the trains have identical interiors, this must save on construction and maintenance costs.
If the interiors are basically similar to the Class 378 trains, it must also save on staff training costs.
I actually think, that the biggest complaint will not be about the new trains, but why don’t the older Class 378 trains have wi-fi and USB charging points!
Eight-Car Trains On West Anglia Routes
The article also states that services on West Anglia routes to Cheshunt, Chingford and Enfield Town stations will work as eight-car trains or a pair of four-car trains.
If they are always working in pairs, why not build them as eight-car trains in the first place?
In A Detailed Layout Drawing For A Class 345 Train, I said that the formation of a Class 345 train for Crossrail is as follows.
DMS+PMS+MS1+MS3+TS(W)+MS3+MS2+PMS+DMS
Note.that the train is composed of two identical half-trains, which are separated by the TS(W) car.
As the Modern Railways article says that these trains are to be the last to be delivered, would it not be sensible to fully understand the four-car units and then decide if instead of pairs of four-car units, they were built as eight-cars.
Consider.
- Trains would be formed of identical four-car half-trains.
- An eight-car Class 710 train would be nearly fifty metres shorter than a nine-car Class 345 train.
- Passengers would be able to walk through the whole train.
- Passengers can position themselves for their best exit at their destination station.
- Would passenger security be better on a train, where passengers could walk all the way through?
- I have seen drivers on Class 345 trains change ends inside the train
- Aventras and other modern trains are fitted with intelligent control systems, that determine the number and type of the intermediate cars in the train.
- Two Driving Motor Standard Cars (DMS) would be replaced with simpler Trailer Standard (TS) or Motor Standard (MS) cars.
- The choice of a TS or MS car would depend partly on performance issues, which could be tested with the earlier four-car trains.
- Building and maintenance cost savings by reducing the number of driving cars, must be possible.
- Capacity could be increased by adding cars in the middle, if platforms were long enough!
- Would providing overnight stabling for fifteen eight-car trains be easier than for thirty four-car trains?
It should also be noted, Cheshunt station has a very long platform without a roof. Passengers could walk to the front of the train inside a warm dry train. This already happens with the Class 378 trains at Highbury & Islington station.
Romford-Upminster Shuttle
The Modern Railways article says this about the service on the Romford-Upminster Line.
TfL is still considering whether to utilise a ‘710’ on the Romford to Upminster shuttle or to retain an older unit for the line.
I wrote about this in A Heritage Class 315 Train For The Romford-Upminster Line, after this article in London Reconnections, which is entitled More Trains for London Overground: A Bargain Never to be Repeated, said that it is possible that this line could be served by a Class 315 train, held back from the scrapyard.
I came to this conclusion.
If it is decided that a Class 315 train is to be used on the Romford to Upminster Line, I believe that the service could be marketed as a quirky heritage unit, that in conjunction with its main purpose of providing a public service, could also be used for other education, training, marketing, innovation and research purposes.
Eversholt Rail Group might even shift a few redundant Class 315 trains!
Why not?
Chingford Upgrades
The Modern Railways article says this.
A £7million investment has seen the stabling facility at Chingford upgraded, including the addition of an AVIS-scanner here as well.
These pictures show the investment.
With the Automatic Vehicle Inspection System (AVIS), Chingford is becoming more than a stabling facility.
Note the large maintenance structure, so that trains can be worked on in the dry.
A Few Questions Of My Own
I have a few of my own questions.
If The Thirty Four-Car Trains For West Anglia Routes Are Converted To Eight-Cars, What Happens To The Spare Driving Motor Cars?
If the thirty four-car trains are converted to fifteen eight-car trains, it appears to me that Bombardier could have at best many of the long-lead components for thirty Driving Motor Standard (DMS) cars. At worst, they would have thirty DMS cars for Class 710 trains.
But London Overground will have need for a few more trains in a few years.
In Increased Frequencies On The East London Line, I showed this London Overground table of improvements.
LO Improvements
Note that two extra tph are proposed on the Liverpool Street to Enfield Town service. I calculate, that this would need another two Class 710 Trains.
Similarly, to add two tph to the Liverpool Street to Cheshunt service, would appear to need another three trains.
The Mayor is also looking favourably at creating the West London Orbital Railway.
I estimate that the two proposed routes would need around four trains each to provide a four tph service, if they could be run using dual-voltage Class 710 trains with a range of perhaps ten miles on battery power.
What Is Happening About The Hall Farm Curve?
I heard from someone, who should know, that the Hall Farm Curve and the Coppermill Curve will be reinstated.
These curves would allow the following.
- A direct service between Chingford/Walthamstow and Stratford.
- Better access to the upgraded stabling at Chingford.
But I think these curves would be invaluable in maintaining services, during the construction of Crossrail 2.
Will A Bay Platform Be Developed At Lea Bridge Station?
I also wonder if a bay platform will be developed at Lea Bridge station, which would enable a four tph service to be run between Lea Bridge and Chingford stations, if Chingford Branch trains couldn’t get into Liverpool Street station, because of construction works.
I certainly feel that the curves connecting the lines at Coppermill Junction will have a major part to play in the development of East London’s railways.
Should Some Thameslink Routes Be Transferred To Transport for London?
Some commentators and politicians advocate the transfer of some Thameslink services to Transport for London (TfL).
Thameslink has been designed as a single solution to multiple needs, with too much input from politicians worried about losing elections.
Split Fleets And Franchises
If you look at Greater Anglia, Great Western Railway and South Western Railway, who have a similar mix of services as do Thameslink, they have opted for split fleets with short-medium and long distance trains,designed for their tasks.
In the North of England, the short-medium routes are run by Northern and the long distance routes by TransPennine.
Transport for Wales has now split their fleet into three; South Wales Metro, North Wales Metro and long distance.
The Consequences Of Thameslink’s Single Fleet
Services with different needs are using one fleet of Class 700 trains.
Effectively, Thameslink are using a train more suitable for services between St. Albans and Wimbledon stations, on long distance services between Bedford, Cambridge and Peterborough, and destinations along the South Coast.
Going between Brighton and Cambridge stations on an ironing-board seat is not a pleasant experience, as I noted in Observations On Thameslink Between Brighton And Cambridge.
I believe that Thameslink could be split into two; short-medium and long distance routes.
Short-Medium Thameslink Routes
Currently of the twenty-four services planned in the Provisional Timetable, just four are short medium services that run all day.
If we apply the London Overground principle of four tph stopping at all stations, then the Sutton Loop services, are already working to a version of this principle.
Could other services work to the Overground principle?
East Coast Main Line
On the East Coast Main Line, a terminal to the North of Welwyn Garden City station is probably impossible, due to the limited capacity of the Digswell Viaduct.
Welwyn Garden City also has a flyover, so that four tph services to London can reverse in a single platform.
Welwyn Garden City with small modifications should be able to handle four tph on both Moorgate and Thameslink services.
Hertford Loop Line
The Hertford Loop Line services have or could have excellent cross-platform interchanges with Thameslink services at Finsbury Park and Alexandra Palace stations, although they could be improved.
The weak interchange is coming South at Alexandra Palace, which means using a bridge, but it is easy to use Finsbury Park instead.
The Hertford Loop Line also gives access to three terminal stations; Gordon Hill, Hertford North and Stevenage, which could handle four tph.
So could we see Thameslink services using the route?
It would probably need some new six-car trains, which could be shortened from Thameslink’s dreadful Class 700 trains.
Finsbury Park Station
These pictures were taken at Finsbury Park station.
Could a bay platform for Thameslink services by added here?
I suspect that one could, but would it be worthwhile?
Midland Main Line
On the Midland Main Line, in addition to St.Albans City, currently, short-medium distance services terminate at Kentish Town and Luton.
It is a pity, that the Midland Main Line doesn’t have a handy branch!
A Balanced Northern Service
I think for balance that both Northern branches will take an equal number of short-medium distance trains. Perhaps, four tph to two destinations on each branch.
I might choose.
- St. Albans City on the Midland Main Line.
- Luton on the Midland Main Line.
- Welwyn Garden City on the East Coast Main Line.
- Stevenage on the East Coast Main Line via the Hertford Loop.
All services would be four tph.
Southern Destinations
In the South, there are several stations, that could handle four tph.
Traffic will determine which, but I like the claims of Dartford, East Croydon, Orpington and Sutton on the Wimbledon Loop.
Transfer To London Overground
These short-medium distance routes should be transferred to the London Overground.
It should be noted how if the Moorgate services are also transferred to the London Overground, as I outlined in Should The Moorgate Lines Be Transferred To Transport for London?, then the following frequencies would apply.
- 8 tph – Alexandra Palace to Welwyn Garden City
- 12 tph – Alexandra Palace to Gordon Hill
- 8 tph – Gordon Hill to Hertford North
- 4 tph – Hertford North to Stevenage.
There would be 20 tph between Finsbury Park and Alexandra Palace.
With ETCS, I don’t think that last frequency would be unrealistic, as there are two separate lines in each direction between the two stations.
Long Thameslink Routes
Class 700 Trains
These are currently, a disaster for passengers, as travelling between say Brighton and Cambridge in the dreadful Class 700 trains, is possibly the worst train journey in the UK in new train. In some ways Pacers are better!
This article in the Express is entitled ‘One Is Not Amused’ The Queen Is Not Happy With Changes To Trains, Claims Rail Boss.
If the Royal Posterior finds them hard in First Class, the seats must be dreadful there too!
But it’s not just the passengers who don’t like them.
I came back to London recently with a group of East Midlands Trains drivers. Their professional view of the Class 700 trains, is that they are not fast enough with an operating speed of 100 mph, as against the 125 mph of the trains run by East Midlands Trains.
It should be noted that on the East and West Coast Main Lines, the semi-fast medium-distance services are generally run by 110 mph trains.
So I feel very strongly, that the Class 700 trains are not only bad from the customers point-of-view, but totally unsuitable to run services on the Midland and East Coast Main Lines, where all other trains can cruise happily at 125 mph.
They must be assigned to more suitable duties!
The Routes
Get some new trains on these routes designed by people with sense and style and the routes would be transformed.
I also think, that the destinations served South of the Thames should be simplified. Thameslink is trying to serve too main destinations in the South, compared to the North, where long distance routes only serve Bedford, Cambridge, Peterborough and the intermediate stations.
Perhaps, there should be more services linking from all along the South Coast to an improved rail station at Gatwick Airport.
An Airport Route
I have travelled to and from Gatwick Airport several times, since Thameslink reopened through London Bridge a few months ago.
Outside of the Peak, these trains may be busy between London Bridge and Gatwick stations, but in the Central Core, passengers are fairly thin on the uncomfortable seats.
Luton Airport have been campaigning for more services and I suspect Gatwick would like more too.
So why not run a four tph service between the two airports, using well-designed airport trains?
An Increased Frequency Through The Core
Thameslink is currently planning twenty-four tph through the core tunnel, but there are statements that thirty tph could be handled.
The destinations to handle the extra trains exist in the South, especially, if routes out of London Bridge are replaced by Thameslink services, but accommodating more services on the East Coast and Midland Main Lines could be tricky.
Conclusion
I believe it is possible to split Thameslink into two sections.
Long distance services with new trains would stay with National Rail, but short-medium services would go to the London Overground and probably be run by six and eight-car versions of the existing trains.
Should The Moorgate Lines Be Transferred To Transport for London?
This article in Rail Magazine, is entitled TfL Targets Transfer Of Govia Thameslink Services.
One of the services, targeted by Transport for London (TfL) are the Great Northern services into Moorgate station from Hertford North, Stevenage and Welwyn Garden City stations.
I know the line into Moorgate and the various branches well, as I’ve used them in different forms, since I was about eleven.
The section between Moorgate and Finsbury Park stations is often referred to as the Northern City Line.
I wrote about these lines in a series of posts linked to A North London Metro.
The biggest problem, I find with the lines, is the quality of the trains and the stations. But there are other issues that will also effect these services, which I detail in the following sections.
Trains
The current Class 313 trains are some of the oldest on the UK rail network, as they were built around 1976, which makes them only a couple of years older than London Overground’s Class 315 trains.
I ride in both fleets regularly and although both show their age, those on the Overground appear to have had a lot more TLC.
It’s almost as if GTR doesn’t care about the Northern reaches of their Network.
In some ways, when the Lea Valley Lines were managed by Greater Anglia from Norwich, it was the same Out-Of-Site-Out-Of Mind attitude.
Both operators are changing these elderly fleets by the end of next year.
- London Overground’s Class 315 trains with new Class 710 trains.
- GTR’s Class 313 trains with new Class 717 trains.
My worry about moving the Moorgate services to the London Overground would be about the transfer of the new trains, although TfL do have some cards in their favour.
- The Class 717 trains are designed for the rather unusual operating conditions of the Northern City Line.
- Siemens have a contract to build and maintain the Class 717 trains.
- TfL have recently signed a big deal with Siemens, for the New Tube for London.
- The current Class 313 trains are single-manned.
I would hope that the trains and their crews would not be too difficult to transfer to the London Overground.
Stations
Many of the stations like Essex Road are tired and need serious work, which would start with a good deep clean. Is it the same Out-Of-Site-Out-Of Mind attitude?
Highbury & Islington Station
These pictures show Highbury & Islington station.
The decor needs a serious refresh.
If I want to go to say Hertford North or Welwyn Garden City, the easiest way is to go via Highbury & Islington station and get a direct train.
Until a few months ago, there used to be no way to buy a ticket at the station.
- The destination is outside my Freedom Pass area.
- I can’t use Oyster or contactless card at the destination.
- There is no ticket machine to buy a ticket.
- There is no ticket office.
However, the latest Underground ticket machines have solved the problem
When you consider that Highbury & Islington station is the fourteenth busiest station in the UK and that it handles more passengers in a year, than Cannon Street, Charing Cross, Edinburgh Waverley and Manchester Piccadilly, the station is a disgrace.
Are other stations as passenger unfriendly?
Crossrail
Crossrail will seriously affect the services into Moorgate station.
Consider the following.
- Changing to and from Crossrail at Moorgate will become a preferred route for many passengers.
- Moorgate is a short walk to much of the City of London.
- Moorgate and Liverpool Street will be one massive interconnected station.
- The new Class 717 trains will attract passengers, if they are better than Thameslink’s terrible Class 700 trains.
- Between Moorgate and Alexandra Palace stations could have a frequency as high as twelve trains per hour (tph), that runs all day.
- The Victoria Line doesn’t connect to Crossrail, but it does have a cross-platform interchange at Highbury & Islington station with the Northern City Line.
- The Piccadilly Line doesn’t connect to Crossrail or serve the City of London, but it will soon have a much-improved connection to the Northern City Line at Finsbury Park station.
Predicting the number of passengers on the services into Moorgate will become one of those classic extremely-difficult multi-variable problems.
Journeys Will Change
As an example of a changed journey take the case of someone living in Walthamstow wanting to go to Heathrow.
Currently, the easy route is.
- Victoria Line to Finsbury Park – 9 minutes
- Piccadilly Line to Heathrow Central – 64 minutes.
This is a total time of 73 minutes.
After Crossrail opens the high-frequency route will be.
- Victoria Line to Highbury & Islington – 12 minutes.
- Northern City Line to Moorgate – 10 minutes.
- Crossrail to Heathrow Central – 33 minutes
This is a total time of 55 minutes.
Thameslink
Thameslink hasn’t been designed with improving the local services on the East Coast Main Line in mind and GTR are hoping that the new trains to and from Moorgate, will provide enough capacity.
As it might be hoped that the new trains on the Moorgate services will be an improvement on the dreadful Thameslink Class 700 trains, with ironing board seats and no wifi, power sockets or tables, will passengers be swapping their London terminal to Moorgate with its better trains and connections?
Hertfordshire
Thirteen of the thirty-one stations served from Moorgate are in Hertsfordshire.
What will that County Council’s reaction be to a transfer of the Moorgate routes to the London Overground?
Relationship With The Underground And Overground
The route between Finsbury Park and Mootgate stations used to be part of the Underground and there are several interchanges between the route and the Underground and Overground.
- Bowes Park station is an out-of-station interchange with Bounds Green station on the Piccadilly Line.
- Harringay station is an out-of-station interchange with with Harringay Green Lanes station on the Gospel Oak to Barking Line.
- Finsbury Park station is an interchange with the Piccadilly and Victoria Lines.
- Highbury & Islington station is an interchange with East London, North London and Victoria Lines.
- Old Street is an interchange with the Northern Line.
- Moorgate is an interchange with the Circle, Hammersmith & City, Metropolitan and Northern Lines, in addition to Crossrail from the end of this year.
When the new Class 717 trains, with their increased frequency of at least four tph, start running, it will be a new high frequency Metro for the London boroughs of Barnet, Enfield, Haringey and Islington.
Future
I can see various changes adn additions to this line in the future.
ETCS On The East Coast Main Line
ETCS is being installed on the East Coast Main Line to increase capacity. It would appear that trains running to Welwyn Garden City station, will need to have ETCS installed.
As the new Class 717 trains are similar to the Class 700 trains, which use ETCS in the Thameslink core between St. Pancras and Blackfriars stations, fitting the system to the trains, shouldn’t be a problem.
But fitting ETCS to all the Class 717 trains, would mean that installing and using ETCS on the routes into Moorgate station would not be a difficult enterprise.
If this were to be done, would trains between Moorgate and Finsbury Park stations be able to attain the Thameslink frequency of twenty-four tph?
I can’t see why not!
Faster Running On The East Coast Main Line
In Call For ETCS On King’s Lynn Route, I talked about an article in Edition 849 of Rail Magazine, with the same title, where I said this.
In addition to ETCS, which could improve capacity on the East Coast Main Line, they would also like to see journey time reductions using trains capable of running at 125 mph or faster on the King’s Lynn to Kings Cross route.
Faster limited-stop 125 mph trains from Cambridge, Kings Lynn and perhaps, Peterborough to King Cross would surely increase capacity and might even help with the double-track bottleneck of the Digswell Viaduct.
One of the problems is that Thameslink’s Class 700 trains are only capable of 100 mph.
They are just not fast enough.
With 125 mph running limited stop into Kings Cross or Thameslink, will this free up capacity on the slow line and perhaps allow extra services from London to Welwyn Garden City station. They can’t go further North because of the Digswell Viaduct, unless the trains use the Hertford Loop Line.
I’m pretty certain that introducing 125 mph trains to Cambridge, Kings Lynn and Peterborough could open up more csapacity for services on the Great Northern route.
Increased Capacity At Moorgate
Crossrail will connect to the routes into and through a rebuilt Moorgate station.
- This connection will attract more passengers.
- Crossrail provides connection to Canary Wharf, the West End, Paddington station and Heathrow.
- The rebuilt station will also provide high-capacity step-free connections to the Central, Circle, Hammersith & City and Northern Lines.
- There will hopefully be better access to walking routes through the City of London.
Looking at the plans for the massive double-ended Liverpool Street-Moorgate station on Crossrail, it would appear that, the station complex is being rebuilt for a large increase in passengers.
Currently, the frequency to and from Moorgate station is around ten tph, which is handled on two platforms.
Consider.
- Brixton and Walthamstow Central stations on the Victoria Line, handle 36 tph with two platforms and Automatic Train Operation (ATO).
- The East London Line will be handling twenty tph Between Dalston Junction and Surrey Quays stations, by the end of next year.
- The Class 717 trains will have a better performance than the current Class 313 trains.
- The signalling could probably be updated and ATO added as I indicated earlier
I would suspect that a frequency upwards of at least sixteen tph to and from Moorgate could be possible.
I’d like to know, what capacity was assumed in the design of the rebuilt Moorgate station, to make sure, the station was future-proofed for all possible services.
Increased Frequencies
All stations between Liverpool Street and Shenfield have had a frequency of ten tph, as long as I can remember and this frequency will be increased to twelve tph, when Crossrail opens.
Alongside this, the frequencies of four tph to and from Hertford North and Welwyn Garden City look measly!
The Hertford Loop Line has three possible terminals; Gordon Hill, Hertford North and Stevenage, all of which could handle four tph. If all were used, this would give these frequencies.
- 12 tph – Finsbury Park to Gordon Hill
- 8 tph – Gordon Hill to Hertford North
- 4 tph – Hertford North to Stevenage.
If what I said earlier is correct and that sixteen tph is possible into Moorgate, then this would still allow the current frequency of four tph to Welwyn Garden City.
Twenty tph into Moorgate would allow an increased frequency of eight tph to Welwyn Garden City, which would match the frequency to Hertford North.
Park-And-Ride
There is a need for at least one parkway station on the Great Northern route.
GNER were intending to provide one at Hadley Wood station.
Parliament held a debate in January 2000 about this and you can read the debate here on the Parliament web site. Generally, MPs were not in favour.
Stevenage has also been proposed for a parkway station and I think this is much more likely.
Incorporation Into The Tube Map
There will soon be calls for the Southern part of the route to be shown on the Tube Map.
Conclusion
I can see serious investment will be needed at stations on the Great Northern route and especially on the deep-level Northern City Line.
It is also likely, that more trains could be needed. Especially, if twenty tph were run through to moorgate.
Do GTR have the will and the resources to invest in this line?
I doubt it, as it is probably seen as an irrelevant backwater, by GTR’s so-called management.
Given the close connection of this route to Crossrail and the Underground and that fifty-eight percent of the stations are in Greater London, then Transport for London would seem to be an ideal owner for this route.
Celebrating Gay Pride
Yesterday, was London’s Gay Pride Day.
Some of the roundels have been changed in certain stations.
Should we see jaunty alternatives at other times or events during the year?
West Hampstead Station – 7th July 2018
The new bridge at the West Hampstead station is now in use and it looks like the new station will be completed by the end of the year.
As the last picture shows this could be one of those station developments, where a deck could have been built over the North London Line to increase the number of flats built in the development on the South side of the railway.
This Google Map shows West Hampstead station on the North London Line and West Hampstead tube station on the Jubilee and Metropolitan Lines, although the latter don’t stop.
Note the development stretches a long way to the West between the North London Line and Underground Lines.
There have been plans to create a West Hampstead Interchange on West End Lane.
As these envisaged moving the Overground station to the East side of West End Lane and the new station is being built on the West side, It would appear there’s been a rethink.
Perhaps the Underground station is to be moved to the West side of West End Lane and will have an entrance on the small square in front of the M & S Simply Food and alongside the new Overground station.
This Google Map shows an enlargement of the area.
The new station could have platforms on the following lines.
- Jubilee Line
- Metropolitan Line
- Cjhiltern Railway
It would be a very worthwhile interchange. Especially, as passengers could do the following.
- Walk across the square for the Overground for East London.
- Walk perhaps another hundred metres to West Hampstead Thameslink station, which is also proposed as the terminus of the West London Orbital Railway.
There could also be a development on the top of the new station, which would hopefully contribute to the cost.
I have no idea, if anything will happen here, but Transport for London are looking to create new stations with over-site development. The Mayor also seems keen on the West London Orbital Railway, as it is based on under-used infrastructure and requires no new track or tunnels.
The Anonymous Widower 