A New Route Between New Cross Gate And Queen’s Park Stations
In Does The Elizabeth Line Offer Similar Benefits To The Bakerloo Line Extension?, I said this.
I suspect that the easiest way between New Cross Gate and Harrow & Wealdstone will be with changes at Whitechapel and Paddington.
I also said, I would try out the route today.
I did a shorter route between New Cross Gate And Queen’s Park stations, with the same two changes.
For each extra station, I can apply Irene’s Law, by adding two minutes for each station.
I took these pictures on the route.
Note.
- On the Overground and the Elizabeth Line, there were few spare seats and a number of standees.
- Quite a few passengers changed at Whitechapel.
- The tunnel at Paddington between Elizabeth and Bakerloo Lines wasn’t very busy.
- The Bakerloo Line wasn’t very busy.
I have a few thoughts.
First Time Riders
I got the impression, a lot of passengers were first-time riders.
This could explain the passenger numbers.
Timings
These were my timings.
- It took me forty-six minutes for the fourteen stations.
- The interchange at Whitechapel was about four minutes.
- At Paddington, I walked between the Elizabeth and Bakerloo Line platforms in under five minutes and then just missed a Northbound train.
Irene’s Law
I talk about Irene’s Law in Irene’s Law – Estimating Tube Journey Times, where I define it like this.
If you want to get an estimate of how long a journey will take on the London Underground, you count the number of stations and multiply by two, before adding five for every interchange.
For the Overground, I’ve found that using three minutes for the number of stations gives a reasonable answer.
So how does it fit for my journey?
- The base time is forty-six minutes.
- Deduct ten minutes for the two changes gives thirty-six minutes.
- 36/14 gives 2.6 minutes.
I’ll go with that! But it looks like for a mixed journey like this, 2.5 might give a rough estimate.
How Would This Time Compare With An Extended Bakerloo Line?
Consider.
- New Cross Gate station could be on an extended Bakerloo Line.
- The Bakerloo Line timetable gives a time of 26 minutes between Queen’s Park and Elephant & Castle stations.
- There are three extra stations, which would probably be two minutes per station.
So the time between Queen’s Park and New Cross Gate stations would be 32 minutes via an extended Bakerloo line.
Conclusion
It looks like an extended Bakerloo Line will be a few minutes quicker.
But that the Elizabeth Line will be a good alternative for a few years.
My feeling is that the Elizabeth Line will have enough capacity for several years, but that eventually the Bakerloo Line will need to be extended.
Does The Elizabeth Line Offer Similar Benefits To The Bakerloo Line Extension?
This map shows the proposed Bakerloo Line extension.
Note.
- There are new or improved stations at Old Kent Road 1, Old Kent Road 2, New Cross Gate and Lewisham.
- New Cross Gate station has Overground and Southern services.
- Lewisham station has Docklands Light Railway and Southern services.
- The future potential option going South is to take over the Hayes Line.
Could we provide improvements along the line of the Bakerloo Line Extension in a less disruptive and more affordable manner?
I will look at the various stations.
New Cross Gate
New Cross Gate station is a fully-accessible station, as these pictures show.
The station, currently has the following services.
- Overground – Highbury & Islington and Crystal Palace – 4 tph
- Overground – Highbury & Islington and West Croydon – 4 tph
- Southern – London Bridge and Victoria via Sydenham – 2 tph
- Southern – London Bridge and Coulsdon Town via Sydenham – 2 tph
Note.
- tph is trains per hour.
- The Overground services provide an 8 tph service to the Elizabeth Line at Whitechapel station.
- TfL may well increase the frequency of the two Overground services to 5 tph.
I suspect that the easiest way between New Cross Gate and Harrow & Wealdstone will be with changes at Whitechapel and Paddington.
- New Cross Gate and Whitechapel – Overground – 13 minutes.
- Whitechapel and Paddington – Elizabeth Line – 14 minutes.
- Paddington Interchange – 15 minutes
- Paddington and Harrow & Wealdstone – Bakerloo Line – 29 minutes
This gives a total time of 71 minutes.
As Bakerloo Line trains go between Elephant & Castle and Harrow & Wealdstone, which is 24 stations and the journey takes 48 minutes, this gives a figure of two minutes per station.
- This seems to fit Irene’s Law, which I wrote about in Irene’s Law – Estimating Tube Journey Times.
- So it looks like a direct train on the extension would take 54 minutes.
- That time fits well with the 71 minutes via the Elizabeth Line if fifteen minutes is allowed for the walk at Paddington.
I will do the trip for real today.
Lewisham
There are two ways to get between Lewisham and the Elizabeth Line.
- Take the Dockland’s Light Railway to Canary Wharf. Estimated at 15 minutes.
- Take a train to Whitechapel, which needs a change of train at New Cross station. Estimated at 17 minutes minimum.
Neither are perfect.
I will try out these two trips soon.
Hayes
The Hayes Line is often talked about as the final destination of the Bakerloo Line.
In More Frequent Trains And A New Station For The London Overground, I put forward a plan for connecting the Hayes Line to the New Cross branch of the London Overground.
This map from carto.metro.free.fr shows the lines at New Cross station.
Note.
- The double-track East London Line, shown in orange, arrives from Surrey Quays station arrives in the North-Western corner of the map, becomes a single-track and then goes under the main lines before going into the bay platform D.
- Hayes Line services use Platform C going South and Platform A going North.
- Could the Overground going South divert into Platform C for Hayes?
- It would appear there used to be a line connecting Platform A to the East London Line of the Overground. Could this line be reinstated?
This Google Map shows the same area.
Note.
- The London Overground track is clearly visible.
- The needed connection certainly looks possible, without too much heroic engineering.
- Although, I suspect it could need digital signalling to get everything to work smoothly. But that will happen anyway!
The big advantage of this approach, is that all stations between Whitechapel and Hayes, would have a direct connection to the Elizabeth Line.
Hayes Line services would still continue to Victoria and Cannon Street, although the frequency might be reduced, depending on how many Overground services used the route.
Old Kent Road 1 And Old Kent Road 2
I think there are two ways to serve this important area.
- The first would be to run a high-frequency bus service between Elephant & Castle and the two stations at New Cross.
- I also suspect, it would be possible to have a short extension of the Bakerloo Line to a double-ended station at New Cross Gate and New Cross stations.
I went into the second way in More Frequent Trains And A New Station For The London Overground, where I came to these conclusions.
I am drawn to these two conclusions.
- The Bakerloo Line should be extended via two new Old Kent Road stations to a double-ended terminal station in New Cross with interchange to both New Cross Gate and New Cross stations.
- The New Cross branch of the London Overground should be extended through Lewisham to Orpington and/or Hayes.
My preferred destination for the London Overground service could be Hayes, as this would surely help to free up paths through Lewisham and London Bridge.
I also feel, that the scheme would be much more affordable if high-specification buses were used between Elephant & Castle and the two stations at New Cross.
Conclusion
There are certainly possibilities to create an alternative route, with the same objectives as the Bakerloo Line Extension.
A Cruise To Barking – 13th May 2022
I noticed earlier in the week, that the Thames Clippers now go all the way to Barking Riverside. So I went today.
Note.
- I boarded the boat at the London Bridge City Pier.
- The easiest way to get to this pier is to get a 21, 43 or 141 bus from Moorgate or Bank station. to London Bridge and walk along the South Bank of the river for perhaps a hundred metres. Walking from London Bridge station is a bit tricky.
- I alighted at Barking Riverside Pier, which will be a short walk to the new Barking Riverside station.
The route is a mixture of historic and modern London and places passed include.
- HMS Belfast
- The Tower of London
- Tower Bridge
- Canary Wharf
- Cutty Sark
- The Royal Naval College, Greenwich
- The O2
- The Thames Barrier
- Wooolwich Arsenal
Many have piers for the Thames Clipper.
The Royal Iris
These pictures show what is left of the former Mersey Ferry, the MV Royal Iris, which is rusting in the River at Woolwich.
I remember the ferry, when it was resplendent in green and yellow in the 1960s. I also remember going on one evening party cruise up and down the Mersey.
It’s rather a sad end for ship that has many happy memories for many.
According to Wikipedia, there is a campaign to return the iconic ferry to Liverpool.
London’s CrossFerry
The Thames Clippers keep on going and now at many times, you can go all the way between Barking Riverside and Putney.
It’s not that slow either and in the open waters East of Tower Bridge, my phone was saying that the ferry was cruising at 40 mph.
If it has one problem, it is that the Thames Clippers don’t have an all-day timetable, that is simple.
If it is going to be a pseudo-train line across London, then there needs to be a two boat per hour service across the city. This will be needed more as more housing is built at Barking Riverside.
I know Barking Riverside will be getting the Overground in the Autumn, but unlike the Thames Clippers, that serve Canary Wharf, the City and Westminster, the Overground will serve a swathe of housing, rather than employment, across North London.
London Underground Gets Approval For Walthamstow Central Tube Station Upgrade
The title of this post, is the same as that of this article on Ian Visits.
It is from over a year ago and I’m only including it, as it includes a cutaway of the upgrade.
I go regularly to Walthamstow Central station and hopefully, this will make my journeys easier in busy times.
This paragraph from Wikipedia describes some of cost-cutting design features of the current station.
The underground station, like many stations on the Victoria line, was built to a low budget. White ceiling panels were never fixed to the ceilings above the platforms; instead the steel tunnel segments were painted black and used to support the fixtures and fittings, cutting lighting levels. A concrete stairway sits between two escalators instead of a third; this economy caused a disruptive station closure for several weeks in 2004 when both escalators went out of service.
Hopefully, these short comings will be addressed in the upgrade.
But it doesn’t appear there will be step-free interchange between Underground and Overground.
Penge East Station – 11th March 2022
When I wrote Advance Warning Of Brixton To Beckenham Junction Rail Closure In July, I realised I’d never been to Sydenham Hill station.
So when I visited Sydenham Hill station this morning, I decided to take the train through Penge Tunnel to take some pictures of Penge East station.
Note.
- The station is a Grade II Listed Building.
- It has been well-painted since I last visited.
- It would be very difficult to make the existing bridge step-free.
I think this station could be difficult to incorporate into a Penge Interchange station.
But it would be a shorter walk along the platforms to a lift and stairs to the high level platforms, than the current one to Penge West station.
Advance Warning Of Brixton To Beckenham Junction Rail Closure In July
The title of this post, is the same as that of this article on Ian Visits.
These are the first two paragraphs.
In late July, the railway between Brixton and Beckenham Junction will be closed for 9-days as Network Rail carry out a major upgrade of the tracks in the Penge railway tunnel.
Over the 9-day closure Network Rail says that it will be delivering a £4.5 million investment to replace the tracks through the Penge tunnel to help improve train service reliability. During the works, they will be replacing 3,970 metres of track in total, using engineering trains, road-rail vehicles and other heavy machinery to complete the work.
The railway will be closed between Herne Hill and Beckenham Junction stations for the week of Saturday 23rd to Sunday 31st July 2022.
This map from OpenRailwayMap shows the tunnel.
Note.
- The North-South railway is the Brighton Main Line, that passes through Sydenham and Penge West stations.
- The NW-SE railway is the Chatham Main Line, with Sydenham Hill station in the North-West and Penge East station in the South-East.
- Penge East Station – 11th March 2022 shows the station and the distance to Penge Tunnel.
- Sydenham Hill Station – 11th March 2022 shows the station and Penge Tunnel.
- Penge Tunnel is between the two stations and is shown in cream.
This second map, shows where the two lines cross.
In Penge Interchange, I described how Transport for London would like to build a new Penge Interchange station to possibly replace both Penge East and Penge West stations.
- It could be fully step-free.
- The station would be built on railway land.
- It would have four tph between Victoria and Bromley South stations.
- It would have four tph between Highbury & Islington and West Croydon stations.
- It would have two tph between London Bridge and Caterham stations
- It might also be possible to have platforms on the Crystal Palace branch, thus adding six tph between Highbury & Islington and Crystal Palace stations.
- The station could have Thameslink platforms.
I feel it would offer the following benefits.
- Better connection between South East and North London, without going through Central London.
- Better connection between South East London and Crossrail, with all its connections.
- Closure of the two older Penge stations.
I hope that whilst the railway is closed for the relaying of track, that Network Rail will do a full survey to at least find out whether a Penge Interchange station is feasible.
Final Tunnelling Gets Underway On Bank Station Blockade
The title of this post, is the same as that of this article on Ground Engineering.
This is the introductory paragraph.
Four weeks into the closure of Bank Station for its capacity upgrade, main contractor Dragados is making good progress on all key activities, including final tunnelling works.
This has been traditional tunneling, that would have been familiar to those like the Victorians, where a lot of the digging has been done by hand, with the addition of smaller diggers and power tools.
The project seems to be on schedule for a mid-May opening.
A Thought On The Prospects For Crossrail
Someone asked the question, in a discussion group, that I visit, if Crossrail will be a success.
I believe that you only have to look at the success of the London Overground to realise that Crossrail will be a success.
When the North London Line reopened as the first route of the London Overground with new Class 378 trains, it used to run four-car trains at a frequency of six trains per hour (tph) between Stratford and Willesden Junction stations.
Now the line runs eight tph on that route and the trains are five cars.
That is a capacity increase of 66% in terms of cars per hour.
And still at times, the trains are full and Transport for London are looking at ways of adding extra trains and/or cars.
Crossrail will have the factors going for it, which helped to make the Overground that success. It is new and has a novelty value, but above all like the Overground, it is built for full-sized people, who could be pushing bikes and buggies and trailing baggage.
Crossrail, also increases options for alternative routes for Londoners , who are World Champions at ducking-and-diving.
Crossrail has also been designed so that the trains can be extended.
If Crossrail has a problem, other than the lateness and budget overrun, it is that it doesn’t connect to the Victoria or Piccadilly Lines.
Housing Development Next To Planned Overground Station Gets Approved
The title of this post, is the same as that of this article on IanVisits.
This paragraph describes the development.
The development, New Bermondsey, will see a cluster of residential towers built around the Millwall football ground on former light industrial sites, and will provide some 3,500 homes, a new sports facility, auditorium with 800 seats, and it’s said some 1,250 jobs. The towers vary in height across the site from 13 – 44 storeys; most towers are around 29/30 storeys.
The Overground station is New Bermondsey station, which was originally to be called Surrey Canal Road station.
This Google Map shows the area.
Note.
- The railway going down the East side of the map in the South London Line of the London Overground.
- The railway going round the West side of the map is the National Rail line going through South Bermondsey station to London Bridge.
- The two lines meet at Queens Road Peckham station to the South.
- Surrey Canal Road runs East-West across the map to the South of The Den.
- New Bermondsey station will be where Surrey Canal Road crosses under the London Overground.
- Most of the new housing will be clustered along this road and around the football ground.
The development will be convenient for Millwall supporters.
Apology After Woman Dragged On Platform By London Overground Train
The title of this post, is the same as that as this article on the BBC.
These first three paragraphs describe the incident.
An investigation has been launched after a woman attempting to board a London Overground train was dragged along a platform.
The passenger tried to board the train at Wood Street Station in Walthamstow, north-east London, on 14 January when her hand got trapped in the door.
The Rail Accident Investigation Branch (RAIB) said she was then forced to run alongside the train for about 20m (66ft), before the train stopped. The woman was uninjured.
I don’t know Wood Street station or the size, shape and agility of the lady, who had the near accident.
I shall be going to have a look.
I took these pictures at Wood Street station, this afternoon.
These are my observations.
- The platforms have a very pronounced curve, which makes the gap between train and platform wider.
- There is a significant difference in the height of the train floor and the station platform, which makes the gap effectively wider.
- All the passengers getting into the train were men and wearing sensible shoes. I was too!
- There is a warning message about doors closing thirty seconds before the train leaves. I’ve never seen one before on the Overground.
I will not speculate on what caused the accident, except to say, that as the passenger wasn’t badly injured, I suspect we’ll get to the truth of what happened.
The Anonymous Widower 