Battery EMUs Envisaged In Southeastern Fleet Procurement
The title of this post, is the same as that of this article on Railway Gazette.
This is the first paragraph.
Southeastern has invited expressions of interest for the supply of new electric multiple-units with an optional battery capability for operation away from the 750 V DC third-rail network.
This article on bidstats is entitled Supply Of And Maintenance Support For New Rolling Stock For Southeastern, and gives more details.
These are my thoughts.
Southeastern HighSpeed Services
There would appear to be no changes in this contract to the Class 395 trains, that work on High Speed One, as this is said in the bidstats article.
Full compatibility with Southeastern infrastructure (excluding High Speed 1 infrastructure)
which appears to rule out running on High Speed One.
In addition, this article on Rail Magazine is entitled Southeastern’s Class 395 Javelin Train Sets Are To Receive A £27 million Facelift.
Southeastern Have Both 75 and 100 mph Trains
In addition to their Class 395 trains, Southeastern have the following trains in their fleet.
- Class 375 trains – 100 mph – 10 x 3 cars
- Class 375 trains – 100 mph – 102 x 4 cars
- Class 376 trains – 75 mph – 36 x 5 cars
- Class 465 trains – 75 mph – 129 x 4 cars
- Class 466 trains – 75 mph – 36 x 2 cars
- Class 707 trains – 100 mph – 18 x 5 cars
Note.
- Running a mixed fleet of 75 and 100 mph trains can’t be very efficient.
- The Class 465 and 466 trains are the oldest trains and date from 1991-1994.
- They are often to be seen in ten-car formations of 2 x 465 trains and a Class 466 train.
- Another twelve Class 707 trains are planned to join Southeastern.
I would expect the Class 465 and Class 466 trains to be replaced first.
What Length Will The New Trains Be?
If you look at the new suburban electric trains, they have the following lengths.
- c2c – Class 720 trains – 5 cars
- Greater Anglia – Class 720 trains – 5 cars
- Northern – Class 331 trains – 3 and 4 cars
- Southeastern – Class 707 trains – 5 cars
- South Western Railway – Class 701 trains – 5 and 10 cars
- West Midlands Trains – Class 730 trains – 3 and 5 cars
Note.
- Southeastern already run five-car trains as pairs.
- A significant proportion of existing suburban trains are five-car trains.
- Great Western, Hull Trains, LNER, Lumo and TransPennine Express run five-car Hitachi trains, with more companies to follow.
- A pair of five-car trains make a pair of a convenient length for most platforms.
I would be fairly confident, that the new trains will be five-car trains, with the ability to run as pairs.
What Will Be The Operating Speed Of The New Trains?
To match the speed of the Class 375 and Class 707 trains, I would expect them to be 100 mph trains.
The Quietness Of Battery-Electric Trains
All of the battery-electric trains I have ridden, have been mouse-quiet, with none of the clunking you get for a lot of electric trains.
This is said in the bidstats article says this about the interiors
Interiors suitable for metro & mainline operation.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see a lot of these trains on commuter routes to attract passengers.
Battery Power
This is said in the bidstats article about battery power.
Inclusion of options for traction batteries with capability for operation in depots and sidings without the need for external power supply, and with the capability to operate on the main line where power supply is not available due to isolations or incidents, or for non-electrified line sections of up to 20 miles.
Although Merseyrail’s new Class 777 trains are not in service yet, I find it interesting that the proposed Southeastern trains will be similarly-fitted with a small battery for depot and siding operation.
The twenty mile battery range is specific and I wonder if it will be used innovatively. I suspect it could be a bit longer in the future, as battery technology improves.
Possible Electrified Routes Using Battery Power
These are a few possibilities.
The Hoo Branch
In Effort To Contain Costs For Hoo Reopening, I discussed running electric trains to a proposed Hoo station.
I made these two points.
- Hoo junction to Hoo station is no more than five or six miles.
- There are also half-a-dozen level crossings on the route, which I doubt the anti-third rail brigade would not want to be electrified.
It would appear that a battery-electric train with a range of twenty miles would handle this route easily.
- Charging would be on the nearly thirty miles between Hoo junction and Charing Cross station.
- No charging would be needed at Hoo station.
There may be other possibilities for new routes locally to open up new housing developments.
The Sheerness Line
The Sheerness Line has the following characteristics.
- It is double-track
- It is electrified
- It is less than eight miles long.
- For most of the day, the service is one train per hour (tph)
- There are two tph in the Peak.
- Would two tph attract more passengers to the line?
- Does the power supply on the Sheerness Line limit the size and power of trains that can be run on the line?
- Is there a need for one train per day to London in the morning and a return in the evening?
- Could the Sheerness Line be run more economically with battery trains. providing a two tph service all day?
The Isle of Sheppey needs levelling up, perhaps 100 mph trains to London using battery power on the Sheerness Line, might just make a difference.
The Medway Valley Line
The Medway Valley Line has the following characteristics.
- It is double-track
- It is electrified
- It is less than twenty-six and a half miles long.
- For most of the day, the service is two tph.
- In the Peak there are HighSpeed services between Maidstone West and St.Pancras International stations.
If electrification was removed between Paddock Wood and Maidstone West stations, the HighSpeed services could still be run and battery-electric trains with a twenty mile range could still run the Tonbridge and Strood service.
The Marshlink Line
The Marshlink Line has the following characteristics.
- It is mainly single-track with a passing loop at Rye station.
- It is not electrified
- It is 25.4 miles between the electrified Ashford International and Ore stations.
- Services are irregular and less than one tph.
If the proposed battery-electric train had a range of thirty miles, it should be able to handle the Marshlink Line.
The service between Eastbourne and Ashford International stations would need to be moved between the Southern and Southeastern operations.
The Uckfield Branch
The Uckfield Branch has the following characteristics.
- It is a mixture of single- and double-track.
- It is not electrified South of Hurst Green Junction.
- It is 24.7 miles between the electrified Hurst Green Junction and Uckfield station
- Services are one tph.
If the proposed battery-electric train had a range of thirty-miles, it should be able to handle the Uckfield Branch, with a charging system at Uckfield station.
Will Battery-Electric Trains Allow Some Lines To Have Their Electrification Removed?
There are several reasons, why electrification might be removed.
- It is on a line, where the electrification needs upgrading.
- It is on a line, where there are lots of trespassers.
- Possibly at a level-crossing or a stretch of track with several.
- Possibly in a tunnel, with a large inflow if water.
- It is a depot or siding, where safety is important to protect the workforce.
Obviously, the electrification would not be removed unless battery-electric trains can handle all possible services.
These are surely some possibilities for electrification removal.
The Hayes Line
The Hayes Line has the following characteristics.
- It is double-track
- It is electrified
- It is less than eight miles to Ladywell Junction, where the branch joins the main line at Lewisham.
- It is currently run by Class 465 and Class 466 trains, which will likely be changed for the new trains with a battery capability.
- Services are four tph.
If the proposed battery-electric train had a range of twenty-miles, it would be able to handle the route between Ladywell junction and Hayes station.
Erith Loop, Crayford Spur and Slade Green Depot
This map from Cartometro.com shows the Erith Loop, the Crayford Spur and the Slade Green Depot.
Note.
Not many trains take the Erith Loop or the Crayford Spur.
- The distance between Slade Green and Barnehurst is less than a mile-and-a-half.
- Dartford station is off the South-East corner of the map.
- The distance between Barnehurst and Dartford is less than three miles.
- The distance between Slade Green and Crayford is less than two miles-and-a-half.
- The distance between Crayford and Dartford is less than two miles.
- The main line through Slade Green would need to remain electrified, as electric freight trains use the line.
I suspect, that quite a lot of electrification could be removed here, much to the disgust of the copper thieves.
It might even be possible to build on top of the depot.
Does The Elizabeth Line Offer Similar Benefits To The Bakerloo Line Extension?
This map shows the proposed Bakerloo Line extension.
Note.
- There are new or improved stations at Old Kent Road 1, Old Kent Road 2, New Cross Gate and Lewisham.
- New Cross Gate station has Overground and Southern services.
- Lewisham station has Docklands Light Railway and Southern services.
- The future potential option going South is to take over the Hayes Line.
Could we provide improvements along the line of the Bakerloo Line Extension in a less disruptive and more affordable manner?
I will look at the various stations.
New Cross Gate
New Cross Gate station is a fully-accessible station, as these pictures show.
The station, currently has the following services.
- Overground – Highbury & Islington and Crystal Palace – 4 tph
- Overground – Highbury & Islington and West Croydon – 4 tph
- Southern – London Bridge and Victoria via Sydenham – 2 tph
- Southern – London Bridge and Coulsdon Town via Sydenham – 2 tph
Note.
- tph is trains per hour.
- The Overground services provide an 8 tph service to the Elizabeth Line at Whitechapel station.
- TfL may well increase the frequency of the two Overground services to 5 tph.
I suspect that the easiest way between New Cross Gate and Harrow & Wealdstone will be with changes at Whitechapel and Paddington.
- New Cross Gate and Whitechapel – Overground – 13 minutes.
- Whitechapel and Paddington – Elizabeth Line – 14 minutes.
- Paddington Interchange – 15 minutes
- Paddington and Harrow & Wealdstone – Bakerloo Line – 29 minutes
This gives a total time of 71 minutes.
As Bakerloo Line trains go between Elephant & Castle and Harrow & Wealdstone, which is 24 stations and the journey takes 48 minutes, this gives a figure of two minutes per station.
- This seems to fit Irene’s Law, which I wrote about in Irene’s Law – Estimating Tube Journey Times.
- So it looks like a direct train on the extension would take 54 minutes.
- That time fits well with the 71 minutes via the Elizabeth Line if fifteen minutes is allowed for the walk at Paddington.
I will do the trip for real today.
Lewisham
There are two ways to get between Lewisham and the Elizabeth Line.
- Take the Dockland’s Light Railway to Canary Wharf. Estimated at 15 minutes.
- Take a train to Whitechapel, which needs a change of train at New Cross station. Estimated at 17 minutes minimum.
Neither are perfect.
I will try out these two trips soon.
Hayes
The Hayes Line is often talked about as the final destination of the Bakerloo Line.
In More Frequent Trains And A New Station For The London Overground, I put forward a plan for connecting the Hayes Line to the New Cross branch of the London Overground.
This map from carto.metro.free.fr shows the lines at New Cross station.
Note.
- The double-track East London Line, shown in orange, arrives from Surrey Quays station arrives in the North-Western corner of the map, becomes a single-track and then goes under the main lines before going into the bay platform D.
- Hayes Line services use Platform C going South and Platform A going North.
- Could the Overground going South divert into Platform C for Hayes?
- It would appear there used to be a line connecting Platform A to the East London Line of the Overground. Could this line be reinstated?
This Google Map shows the same area.
Note.
- The London Overground track is clearly visible.
- The needed connection certainly looks possible, without too much heroic engineering.
- Although, I suspect it could need digital signalling to get everything to work smoothly. But that will happen anyway!
The big advantage of this approach, is that all stations between Whitechapel and Hayes, would have a direct connection to the Elizabeth Line.
Hayes Line services would still continue to Victoria and Cannon Street, although the frequency might be reduced, depending on how many Overground services used the route.
Old Kent Road 1 And Old Kent Road 2
I think there are two ways to serve this important area.
- The first would be to run a high-frequency bus service between Elephant & Castle and the two stations at New Cross.
- I also suspect, it would be possible to have a short extension of the Bakerloo Line to a double-ended station at New Cross Gate and New Cross stations.
I went into the second way in More Frequent Trains And A New Station For The London Overground, where I came to these conclusions.
I am drawn to these two conclusions.
- The Bakerloo Line should be extended via two new Old Kent Road stations to a double-ended terminal station in New Cross with interchange to both New Cross Gate and New Cross stations.
- The New Cross branch of the London Overground should be extended through Lewisham to Orpington and/or Hayes.
My preferred destination for the London Overground service could be Hayes, as this would surely help to free up paths through Lewisham and London Bridge.
I also feel, that the scheme would be much more affordable if high-specification buses were used between Elephant & Castle and the two stations at New Cross.
Conclusion
There are certainly possibilities to create an alternative route, with the same objectives as the Bakerloo Line Extension.
More Frequent Trains And A New Station For The London Overground
The title of this post, is the same as that of this article on IanVisits.
This is said.
In a statement, the government agreed to requests for £80.8 million from the GLA to support transport upgrades so that 14,000 homes can be built along the East London Line.
Upgrades include.
- New Bermondsey station, which was originally to be called Surrey Canal Road, will be built.
- A second entrance will be built at Surrey Quays station.
- Frequency between Dalston Junction and Clapham Junction stations will be increased from four trains per hour (tph) to six tph.
- Frequency between Highbury & Islington and Crystal Palace stations will be increased from four tph to six tph.
The frequency upgrades will mean twenty tph between Dalston Junction and Surrey Quays stations, or a train every three minutes as opposed to the current three minutes and forty-five seconds.
A few thoughts follow.
Surrey Quays Station Upgrade
Ian’s article says this about the new entrance at Surrey Quays station.
The very cramped Surrey Quays station gets a second entrance, which will run under the main road and be based on the north side, where the shopping centre car park is today. That avoids crossing two busy roads, which can take some time if you’re waiting for the lights to change.
This Google Map shows the station and the car park of the Shopping Centre.
These are my pictures, taken at and around the station.
Traffic is bad and the subway suggested by Ian’s wording will be very welcome.
Collateral Benefits At New Cross Gate
New Cross Gate station will be one of several stations along the East London Line to see benefits in service frequency and quality.
The train frequency on East London Line services will rise from eight tph to ten tph.
But this is not all that should or could happen.
- The service between Highbury & Islington and West Croydon stations could rise from four tph to six tph.
- This would mean that New Cross Gate would have a twelve tph service to and from Whitechapel, which in a year or so, will have Crossrail connections to Canary Wharf, Bond Street, Paddington and Heathrow.
- Southeastern should be getting new higher-capacity, higher-performance and possibly longer trains to replace their elderly trains into London Bridge.
- Charing Cross station is redeveloped into a higher-capacity, cross-river station, to allow more trains.
- Digital signalling, as used on Thameslink will be extended to cover all trains through New Cross and New Cross Gate.
- The Docklands Light Railway to Lewisham will get new and higher-capacity trains.
- Southeastern Metro services could go to the London Overground.
Could this all mean that the East London Line, Southeastern and Crossrail will more than hold the fort until it is decided to build the Bakerloo Line Extension?
The Bakerloo Line Extension
This map from TfL shows the route of the Bakerloo Line Extension.
If and when the Bakerloo Line Extension is built, New Cross Gate will surely become a major transport hub.
If you look at the current and proposed stations on the Southern section of an extended Bakerloo Line, you can say the following.
- Paddington will get a step-free pedestrian link between Crossrail and the Bakerloo Line.
- Charing Cross will benefit from more Southeastern Metro services into the main line station.
- Waterloo will benefit from more Southeastern Metro services through the attached Waterloo East station.
- Elephant & Castle station will benefit from more Thameslink services through the attached main line station.
- New Cross Gate will benefit from more Southeastern Metro and East London Line services through the station.
- Lewisham will benefit from more Southeastern Metro services through the station.
But there are no interim benefits for the blue-mauve area, that will be served by the proposed Old Kent Road 1 and Old Kent Road 2 stations.
In addition, is there a need to add capacity between the New Cross area and Lewisham? Southeastern improvements will help, but the Bakerloo Line Extension will do a lot more!
Except for these two stations, is there a reason to build an extension to the Bakerloo Line, as train services between Charing Cross, Waterloo East and New Cross and Lewisham will be significantly increased in frequency, reach and quality?
A Bakerloo Line Extension Redesign
Whatever happens to the Bakerloo Line, the following should be done.
- New walk-through trains running at a higher-frequency on the current route.
- Major access improvements and better connection to main line services at Elephant & Castle, Waterloo East, Charing Cross and Willesden Junction stations.
- A radical reorganisation North of Queen’s Park station, in conjunction with the Watford DC Line and the proposed West London Orbital Railway.
This would improve the current line, but it would do nothing for those living where the extension will go!
So why not do what is happening to the Northern Line at Battersea and create a short extension to the Bakerloo Line that serves the areas that need it and one that can be extended in the future?
- You could argue, that the extension to Lewisham is short and it could be extended to Hayes and other places.
- I also think, that the route goes via New Cross Gate, as that is one of the few sites in the area, from where a large tunnel could be built.
Ideally, what could be needed is a high-capacity public transport link from Elephant & Castle and Greenwich and/or Lewisham via the Old Kent Road, New Cross Gate and New Cross.
The Germans, the Dutch and others wouldn’t mess about and would run trams along the road, but that would go down with the locals like a lead West London Tram.
So it looks like some form of extension of the Bakerloo Line is the only way to go.
Consider.
- Two-platform terminal stations at Brixton and Walthamstow Central handle up to thirty-six tph on the Victoria Line.
- New Cross Gate and New Cross stations are about five hundred metres apart.
- Double-ended stations like Knightsbridge on the Piccadilly Line and Kings Cross on the Victoria Line work very well.
I would look at building a double-ended Bakerloo Line station deep underneath New Cross Road.
- It would be connected by escalators and lifts to the existing stations at New Cross Gate in the West and New Cross in the East.
- Provision would be made to extend the line further to either Greenwich or Lewisham.
- New Cross and Lewisham already have a high-frequency connection of six tph.
- The whole extension could be built from the single tunnelling location on the Sainsbury’s site at New Cross Gate.
- There would be no necessity for any works at Lewisham station.
It would probably need more services to be run between New Cross and Lewisham.
Current Services Between New Cross And Lewisham
Southeastern currently runs these services between New Cross and Lewisham.
- London Cannon Street and Slade Green via Sidcup
- London Cannon Street and Orpington via Grove Park
- London Cannon Street and Hayes
All services are two tph.
Extending The East London Line Service South From New Cross
New Cross is served by the only short service on the London Overground; the four tph between Dalston Junction and New Cross stations.
So could this East London Line service be extended South to serve Lewisham to increase services between New Cross and Lewisham?
This map from carto.metro.free.fr shows the lines at New Cross station.
Note how the double-track East London Line, shown in orange, arrives from Surrey Quays station arrives in the North-Western corner of the map, becomes a single-track and then goes under the main lines before going into the bay platform D.
This Google Map shows the same area.
The London Overground track is clearly visible.
Could extra track be added, to enable the following?
- Southbound trains could join the main line and stop in Platform C
- Northbound trains could leave the main line after stopping in Platform A and go towards Surrey Quays station.
If this is possible, then it would give a four tph service between Dalston Junction and Lewisham, with an important stop at Whitechapel to connect to Crossrail.
Lewisham doesn’t have the space for a terminal platform, but there would appear two possible terminals South of Lewisham.
- Hayes – Journey time to and from Dalston Junction would take around 53 minutes.
- Orpington – Journey time to and from Dalston Junction would take around 50 minutes.
Both stations would make ideal terminals.
- They have bay platforms for terminating the trains.
- Round trips would be a convenient two hours.
- Eight trains would be needed for the service.
- New Cross will have the same four tph to and from Dalston Junction as it does now!
- Lewisham and Dalston Junction would have a four tph service that would take 27 minutes.
The service could even be split with two tph to each terminal.
Will the Extended Services Need To Replace Other Services?
Currently Hayes has these current Off Peak services.
- Two tph to Cannon Street via London Bridge
- Two tph to Charing Cross via London Bridge
I would expect that if digital signalling is applied through the area, that the extra services could be added to Hayes and Orpington as decided.
An Improved Hayes Line
Transport for London and various commentators always assume that the Bakerloo Line will eventually take over the Hayes Line.
This will or could mean the following.
- Passengers used to a full-size train looking out on the countryside and back gardens through big windows, will have to get used to a more restricted view.
- Platforms on the Hayes Line will need to be rebuilt, so that two different size of train will be step-free between train and platform.
- The service could be slower.
- The ability to walk through an increasingly pedestrianised Central London to and from Cannon Street, Charing Cross and London Bridge will be lost.
- Loss of First Class seats. which will happen anyway!
I think that passengers could want to stick with the current service.
The only reason to allow the Bakerloo Line Extension to take over the Hayes Line, is that it would allow another four tph to run between Lewisham and London Bridge. But digital signalling could give the same benefit!
But what if the Overground muscled in?
The Hayes Line could take up to four tph between Dalston Junction and Hayes, via Lewisham and New Cross, which would give these benefits.
- Increased capacity on the Hayes Line.
- An excellent connection to Crossrail, which would give a better connection to the West End, Liverpool Street and Heathrow.
- Better connection to the Eastern side of the City of London and Canary Wharf.
- It could free up four tph between New Cross and London Bridge.
- Same-platform interchange between Southeastern and East London Line services at Lewisham and New Cross.
There would need to be these changes to the infrastructure.
- A new track layout at New Cross.
- Installation of digital signalling.
The latter will happen anyway.
Times To And From Crossrail
Times to and from Whitechapel, with its Crossrail connection are.
- Lewisham – 17 minutes
- Hayes – 44 minutes
- Orpington – 41 minutes
The current service between Orpington and Farrington, which also will connect to Crossrail, takes 52 minutes.
Penge Interchange
Although, this has not been funded, I think that this new interchange could be very much in Transport for London’s plans.
I discuss the possible Penge Interchange station in Penge Interchange.
It’s certainly something to watch out for, as it could improve connectivity by a large amount.
The View From The Dalston Omnibus
For decades, Dalston had a terrible reputation and then came the Overground, which changed everything.
There are now these combined devices from the two Dalston stations.
- Eight tph to Stratford
- Four tph to Richmond via Willesden Junction
- Four tph to Clapham Junction via Willesden Junction
- Four tph to Clapham Junction via Surrey Quays
- Four tph to Crystal Palace via Surrey Quays
- Four tph to New Cross via Surrey Quays
- Four tph to West Croydon via Surrey Quays
There is also a useful eight tph connecting service between Dalston Junction and Highbury & Islington.
In the next couple of years, these developments should happen.
- Services on the East London Line will be increased with an extra two tph to Clapham Junction and Crystal Palace.
- Services on the North London Line will be increased to cope with overcrowding. As the Dalston Junction and Highbury & Islington connecting service will be going to ten tph, it would seem logical that the North London Line service should match this frequency.
- Crossrail will open and Dalston will have a twenty tph connection to its services at Whitechapel.
Dalston needs better connections to either main line terminal stations or their interchanges a few miles out.
Currently, Dalston has very useful connections to the following main interchanges.
- Stratford for the Great Eastern Main Line.
- Clapham Junction for the South Western Railway and Southern services.
- Richmond for Windsor and Reading services.
- Whitechapel will provide a link to Crossrail.
- In addition the planned update at Norwood Junction will give better connection to services to Gatwick, Brighton and other services to the South of Croydon.
Better interchanges are needed with services to the North and the South East of London.
Extending the Dalston Junction and New Cross service to Hayes or Orpington via Lewisham could greater improve the train service from Dalston, by providing interchange to services fanning out into and beyond South East London.
Conclusion
I am drawn to these two conclusions.
- The Bakerloo Line should be extended via two new Old Kent Road stations to a double-ended terminal station in New Cross with interchange to both New Cross Gate and New Cross stations.
- The New Cross branch of the London Overground should be extended through Lewisham to Orpington and/or Hayes.
My preferred destination for the London Overground service could be Hayes, as this would surely help to free up paths through Lewisham and London Bridge.
The Future Of Class 378 Trains
This post is a musing on the future of the Class 378 trains.
The Thames Tunnel
The Thames Tunnel is the tail that wags the East London Line, when it comes to trains.
- For evacuation and safety purposed, trains running through the tunnel, must have an emergency exit through the driver’s cab.
- It hasn’t happened yet, as far as I know, but a version of Sod’s Law states if you ran trains without this emergency exit, you’d need to use it.
- London Overground’s Class 378 trains have this feature, but their Class 710 trains do not.
So it would appear that until Bombardier build an Aventra with an emergency exit through the driver’s cab, that the existing Class 378 trains must work all services through the Thames Tunnel.
Incidentally, I can’t think of another long tunnel, that might be served by the London Overground, so it could be that Class 378 trains will be the only trains to go through the Thames Tunnel, until they wear out and need to go to the scrapyard.
Six Car Trains On The East London Line
I covered this in Will The East London Line Ever Get Six-Car Trains? and I came to this conclusion.
I will be very surprised if Network Rail’s original plan on six-car trains on the East London Line happens in the next few years.
It might happen in the future, but it would need expensive platform extensions at Shadwell, Wapping, Rotherhithe and Canada Water and Surrey Quays stations.
Increased Frequency On The East London Line
If five-car Class 378 trains are the limit, the only way to increase capacity of the East London Line would be to increase frequency.
The current frequency of the East London Line is sixteen trains per hour (tph)
There are four tph on each of these routes.
- Dalston Junction And Clapham Junction
- Dalston Junction And New Cross
- Highbury & Islington And Crystal Palace
- Highbury & Islington And West Croydon
Two increases are planned.
- 2018 – 6 tph – Highbury & Islington And Crystal Palace
- 2019 – 6 tph – Dalston Junction And Clapham Junction
This would increase the frequency of the East London Line to twenty tph.
It will probably mean an updated digital signalling system on the East London Line.
Eventually, I think it likely, that a full ERTMS system as is fitted to Thameslink and Crossrail will be fitted to at least the East London Line, but possibly the whole Overground network.
Digital signalling would certainly allow the twenty-four tph frequency of Thameslink and CXrossrail, which could mean that the four routes all received a frequency of four tph.
But Thameslink and Crossrail are theoretically capable of handling thirty tph or a train every two minutes, through their central tunnels.
If the two modern multi-billion pound tunnels can handle 30 tph, why can’t their little brother, that started life as a half-million pound pedestrian tunnel in 1843,
The Number Of Trains Needed For The Current Service
If I go through the routes of the original Overground, I find the following.
Dalston Junction And Clapham Junction
Trains take 46 minutes to go South and 44 minutes to come North and a round trip would take two hours.
This means that the current four tph service would need eight trains.
A six tph service in the future would need twelve trains.
Dalston Junction And New Cross
Trains take 22 minutes both ways and a round trip would take an hour.
This means that the current four tph service would need four trains.
A six tph service in the future would need six trains.
Highbury & Islington And Crystal Palace
Trains take 44 minutes to go South and 43 minutes to come North and a round trip would take two hours.
This means that the current four tph service would need eight trains.
A six tph service in the future would need twelve trains.
Highbury & Islington And West Croydon
Trains take 52 minutes both ways and a round trip would take two hours.
This means that the current four tph service would need eight trains.
A six tph service in the future would need twelve trains.
This means that the current four tph on all four routes needs twenty-eight trains.
The Proposed 2020 Service
This will have two extra tph to Crystal Palace and Clapham Junction and will need thirty-six trains.
Six Trains Per Hour On All Four Routes
as each route terminates at both ends in a single platform, which can handle six tph, with the right signalling, I feel that this could be the design objective of the East London Line, when it was built in the early-2010s.
This could be achieved with forty-two trains, leaving perhaps twelve to fifteen trains for other duties, depending on how many are needed on stand-by or are in maintenance.
What Could Be Done With Twelve Trains?
As I calculated earlier, three routes need twelve trains to provide a six tph service.
- Dalston Junction And Clapham Junction
- Highbury & Islington And Crystal Palace
- Highbury & Islington And West Croydon
All three services take between 44 and 52 minutes.
So could another six tph service that takes around this time be added to the current four services?
Willesden Junction As A Northern Terminal
Trains could take the North London Line to Willesden Junction and terminate in the Bay Platform 2.
I estimate the following timings from Willesden Junction.
- Highbury & Islington – 27 mins
- Dalston Junction – 31 mins
- Whitechapel – – 41 mins
- New Cross – 49 mins
- Crystal Palace – 64 mins
- Clapham Junction – 73 mins.
- West Croydon – 74 mins
It would appear that the only possible Southern terminal of the current four, would be New Cross, as that is the only terminal within the 44-52 minute range of journey time.
So could a service between Willesden Junction and New Cross replace the current one between Dalston Junction and New Cross?
- It would need to be run using dual-voltage trains
- Voltage changeover could be at Highbury & Islington station.
- Extending the New Cross service would free up a bay platform at Dalston Junction station.
- It should be possible to have a frequency of six tph.
- Serious modifications or additions to infrastructure would probably not be required.
As running to Willesden Junction was talked about before the Overground opened, I wonder if the numerous crossovers on the North London Line, already allow trains from the East London Line to terminate at Willesden Junction.
Southern Terminals Via New Cross Station
This map from carto.metro.free.fr shows the lines at New Cross station.
Note how the double-track East London Line, shown in orange, arrives from Surrey Quays station arrives in the North-Western corner of the map, becomes a single-track and then goes under the main lines before going into the bay platform D.
This Google Map shows the same area.
The London Overground track is clearly visible.
Could extra track be added, to enable the following?
- Southbound trains could join the main line and stop in Platform C
- Northbound could leave the main line after stopping in Platform A and go towards Surrey Quays station.
If this is possible, then trains could run between Dalston Junction and Lewisham stations.
Once at Lewisham they would have choice of Southern terminal,
Hayes As A Southern Terminal
Consider a service between Dalston Junction and Hayes stations.
- I estimate that a train could go between the two stations in 53 minutes.
- Hayes station has two terminal platforms
Six tph would probably be too many services, but 2-3 tph might be very welcome.
Orpington As A Southern Terminal
Consider a service between Dalston Junction and Orpington stations.
- I estimate that a train could go between the two stations in 47 minutes.
- Orpington station has three terminal platforms.
Six tph would probably be too many services, but 2-3 tph might be very welcome.
A Combined Hayes And Orpington Service
As a case can be made for services to both Hayes and Orpington via Lewisham, I think the ideal service could be two tph to both Hayes and Orpington.
- There would be four tph between Dalston Junction and Lewisham.
- Stations on the East London Line would have access to the important interchange station at Lewisham.
- Several stations on the routes to Hayes and Orpington would have a two tph service to Crossrail and the Jubilee Line.
Other Stations Via New Cross
Looking at rail maps, there would seem to be several possibilities including with their times from Dalston junction station.
- Beckenham Junction – 41 mins
- Bromley North – 40 mins
- Gove Park – 35 mins
There are probably others.
Southern Terminals Via Peckham Rye Station
As an example Streatham Common station is planned to be a major interchange and is 43 minutes from Dalston Junction.
Would a bay platform work here as an East london Line terminal?
Conclusion
If all fifty-seven Class 378 trains worked the East London Line, they could run six tph on the current routes.
- Dalston Junction And Clapham Junction
- Dalston Junction And New Cross
- Highbury & Islington And Crystal Palace
- Highbury & Islington And West Croydon
It would need forty-two trains.
Suppose the Dalston Junction and New Cross service was replaced with a Willesden Junction and New Cross service.
- This would provide a useful direct four tph service between East and North London.
- Changing at Highbury & Islington station would be avoided for a lot of journeys.
- The journey time wold be around 49 minutes.
- A two tph service would need four trains.
- A four tph service would need eight trains.
- A six tph service would need twelve trains.
- Many journeys between North and South London would now be possible with just a single same platform interchange.
To run the following frequencies on this route would mean these total frequencies on the East London Line and total numbers of trains.
- 2 tph – 20 tph – 40 trains
- 4 tph – 22 tph – 44 trains
- 6 tph – 24 tph – 48 trains
I think that if the figures are juggled a bit, there is enough trains to run extra services to one or more Southern destinations from Dalston Junction.
My preference would be a split service of 2 tph to both Hayes and Orpington via New Cross, where some new track would be needed.
This would do the following.
- Create a frequent connection between South-East and North-East London.
- Both areas would be connected to Crossrail and several Underground Lines, including the future Bakerloo Line Extension.
- The Hayes Line would be shared between Overground and Southeastern trains.
No more new trains or large amounts of new infrastructure would be needed.
I suspect that London Overground and the new Southeastern franchise can do better than my musings.
Connecting The Bakerloo Line Extension At Lewisham To The North Kent And Bexleyheath Line
This map from carto.metro.free.fr shows the lines in the area of Lewisham station.
Note.
- The multi-track line going North-West to South-East is the South Eastern Main Line .
- The double-track line going South-West to North-East is the Hayes Line.
- The double-track going East are the North Kent & Bexleyheath Lines
- I think it is quite likely that the overrun tunnels for the Bakerloo Line Extension will be under the Hayes Line.
The North Kent & Bexleyheath platforms are as follows.
- Platform 3 is the Up platform
- Platform 4 is the Down platform
Services running on the lines include.
- Dartford to London via Platform 3
- Slade Green to London via Platform 3
- London to Dartford via Platform 4
- London to Slade Green via Platform 4
In Connecting The Bakerloo Line Extension At Lewisham To The Hayes Line, I showed that it would be reasonably easy to connect the overrun tunnels for the Bakerloo Line to the Hayes Line.
So could the Bakerloo Line Extension be connected to the North Kent and Bexleyheath Lines?
If the Lewisham Underground station was deep under the current station, it might be possible to create a junction, which would enable the Underground trains to go in the direction of both the Hayes and Bexleyheath Lines.
But having been on a train between Lewisham and Bexleyheath stations, it would appear that there is little space for the Bakerloo Line to emerge from the ground and join the surface railway.
These pictures show the viaduct and other structures that support Platforms 1 and 2 at Lewisham station.
The pictures seem to confirm that linking to a line under Lewisham station would be extremely difficult and very expensive, and would require a long closure of the North Kent and Bexleyheath Lines through Lewsiham.
If this is the case, this must mean that the Hayes Line is the only place, where the Bakerloo Line can go.
Connecting The Bakerloo Line Extension At Lewisham To The Hayes Line
This map from carto.metro.free.fr shows the lines in the area of Lewisham station.
Note.
- The multi-track line going North-West to South-East is the South Eastern Main Line .
- The double-track line going South-West to North-East is the Hayes Line.
- The double-track going East are the North Kent & Bexleyheath Lines
- I think it is quite likely that the overrun tunnels for the Bakerloo Line Extension will be under the Hayes Line.
The platforms are as follows.
- Platform 1 is the Up platform on the Hayes Line.
- Platform 2 is the Down platform on the Hayes Line.
- Platform 3 is the Up platform on the North Kent & Bexleyheath Lines.
- Platform 4 is the Down platform on the North Kent & Bexleyheath Lines.
They are numbered from bottom to top in the map.
Services running through the area include.
- Slow London to Hayes via Platform 1
- London to Orpington via Platform 1 and the Courthill Loop
- Slow Hayes to London via Platform 2
- Orpington to London via the Courthill Loop and Platform 2.
- Dartford to London via Platform 3
- Slade Green to London via Platform 3
- London to Dartford via Platform 4
- London to Slade Green via Platform 4
- Fast London to Hayes via the Ladywell Loop
- Fast Hayes to London via the Ladywell Loop
If the Hayes Line were to be directly connected to the Bakerloo Line Extension, some services would be difficult to run.
But suppose the tunnels were connected to the Hayes Line between Courthill Loop North Junction and Ladywell Junction, the following services would still be possible.
- London to Orpington via Platform 1 and the Courthill Loop
- Orpington to London via the Courthill Loop and Platform2.
- Fast London to Hayes via the Ladywell Loop
- Fast Hayes to London via the Ladywell Loop
The slow services between London and Hayes would use the Bakerloo Line Extension.
Services On The Hayes Line
Currently, there are two trains per hour (tph) to both Charing Cross and Cannon Street. Some fast services avoid Lewisham, but all services stop at London Bridge.
In the Wikipedia entry for Hayes station, this is said.
In 2004, the Strategic Rail Authority proposed withdrawing services to Charing Cross from the Hayes Line. Following a campaign led by local Councillors and the Hayes Village Association, the plans were withdrawn.
So the locals have form in getting what they want.
Intriguingly, Charing Cross station has two Underground stations; Embankment and Charing Cross, on the Bakerloo Line.
But it will surely lose some of the National Rail services, if Hayes station becomes part of the Underground.
Some must stay, as if all were discontinued, getting to the City could mean a roundabout route and I suspect another campaign would be started by the good burghers of Hayes.
In Thoughts On The Power System For The New Tube for London, I felt that changing to a conventional three-rail electrification could be possible on the deep-level Underground lines.
At Hayes station, it would enable both National Rail and Underground services to both serve the station.
The design of the new Tube for London could well sort out that problem!
Beckenham Junction
This map from carto.metro.free.fr shows Beckenham Junction station and its connection to the Hayes Line at New Beckenham station.
In some ways Beckenham Junction station would make a good terminus for the Bakerloo Line Extension.
- Platform 1 could be converted to use by the Underground.
- There is a four tph service between Victoria and Bromley South stations.
- There is a two-platform station for Tramlink.
But would the flat New Beckenham Junction, where trains join the Hayes Line, have the capacity to handle all the trains and Tubes, going hither and thither?
At the very least use of Beckenham Junction as a terminal for the Bakerloo Line, would need a lot of innovative thinking.
In Could Beckenham Junction To Birkbeck Be Run Using Third-Rail Tram-Trains?, I proposed using tram-trains with a third-rail capability.
This would allow the Birkbeck to Beckenham Junction section of the route to become a conventional railway again and have a higher capacity.
This was my conclusion in the post.
By replacing the trams to Beckenham Junction station with tram-trains, capable of running on both 750 VDC types of electrification and with a limited battery capabilty, would simplify operation at Beckhenham Junction and enable Tramlink services to be extended to Bromley South station.
The collateral benefit, is that Bromley town centre could get a Tramlink connection.
Going East from Beckenham Junction station, the track is only double, but if the New Tubes for London were fast enough, they could gp on to Bromley South station.
Conditions And Thoughts On The New Southeastern Franchise
The January 2018 Edition of Modern Railways gives a review of the conditions, that the Department for Transport are imposing on bidders.
The First Sentence
This is the first sentence of the article.
The Department for Transport says bidders for the next Southeastern franchise will be required to provide space for at least 40,000 additional passengers in the morning rush hour with 12-car services on the busiest routes.
This raises an interesting question.
Does the DfT mean actual twelve-car trains or ones as long as current twelve-car trains?
In Big On The Inside And The Same Size On The Outside, I discussed how by using good design, Bombardier were getting more passengers in a train of the same length.
This is an extract from c2c’s Press Release.
The Aventra is one of the fastest-selling trains in the UK rail industry, and these new trains will be manufactured at Bombardier’s factory in Derby. Each new train, which will operate in a fixed set of 10-carriages, will include over 900 seats, plus air-conditioning, wifi, plug sockets and three toilets onboard. Each new carriage is larger and contains more seats than on c2c’s current trains, so each 10-carriage new train provides capacity for 15% more passengers onboard compared to a current 12-carriage c2c train.
So three x four-car trains working as a twelve-car train are replaced by one ten-car train, just as with Greater Anglia. Note the claimed fifteen percent capacity increase!
Metro Services
The article says this about Metro services,
Metro-style trains will be introduced on suburban routes, similar to those on other high-capacity routes into London.
Is the DfT thinking of trains like Crossrail’s Class 345 trains?
Changes Of London Terminals
The DfT was thinking of all inner suburban services going to a single London terminal, but this has been dropped following opposition.
Changes are still proposed, to stop conflicts at Lewisham.
- Bexleyheath Line services will switch from Victoria to Cannon Street or Charing Cross.
- Hayes Line services will serve Victoria and Charing Cross, but not Cannon Street.
- North Kent Line services will run to Cannon Street.
- Sidcup Line services will run to Charing Cross and Cannon Street in the Peak.
- Extra services will serve Abbey Wood for Crossrail.
- More twelve-car trains.
The objective is a turn-up-and-go Metro-style service on suburban routes.
To London Overground, Merseyrail and other commuters around the K, that means four trains per hour.
As there was with the proposal Network Rail made to curtail Sutton Loop Line services at Blackfriars, there will be complaints. Especially, from those who were at Eton with certain MPs!
Hopefully the design of London Bridge station will help smooth things over.
Twelve-Car Trains At Charing Cross And Waterloo East
If most trains are twelve-car trains, then surely all platforms at Cannon Street, Charing Cross, London Bridge, Victoria and Waterloo East stations, must surely be able to handle trains of this length.
As it is specifically mentioned, Charing Cross and Waterloo East stations must be the most problem.
There have been suggestions of rebuilding the two stations, with the platforms at Charing Cross extending over the Thames.
Consider.
- Modern signalling could handle twenty-four trains per hour between Charing Cross and London Bridge.
- Connections to the Jubilee Line could be better.
- The Bakerloo Line is planned to be extended to Lewisham.
- Waterloo East station could surely have over-site development.
- Techniques borrowed from London Underground could be used to turn trains faster at Charing Cross.
I have a feeling that we will see something fairly radical happen in the next few years to increase capacity across the South Bank.
Faster Services To Hastings
This is said about services to and from Hastings.
DfT has specified a new two trains per hour service between London, Tonbridge and Ashford, allowing services to Hastings to be speeded up by removing calls at Orpington, Sevenoaks and Hildenborough.
Bidders are incentivised to develop further proposals for reducing journey times, including for deliveringn high speed services between London St. Pancras, Hastings and Bexhill via Ashford.
That all sounds good for Hastings.
More Trains Between Strood And Tonbridge
This route along the Medway Valley Line will have two trains per hour all day.
Trains For The Franchise
The DfT has specified the trains in a fairly detailed way.
Cars No Longer Than Twenty Metres
This is probably because of curved platforms and other restrictions on the various routes.
It is also a similar car length to the current Class 465 trains and Class 377 trains.
No Extra Selective Door Opening, Except At Waterloo East
I suspect this could be that selective door opening, confuses passengers and perhaps slow the stops.
First Class To Be Removed By September 2020
Will this be popular with all passengers?
There doesn’t seem to have been too many protests about the future removal of First Class on Greater Anglia’s services in Essex.
But it will allow the capacity of the train to be increased, to provide space for some of those 40,000 additional passengers.
ETCS Will Have To Be Deployed
European Train Control System (ETCS) can enable higher frequencies of trains in a safe manner and mandating that it be deployed is a sensible move.
At Least One Accessible Toilet On Main Line And High Speed Trains
I think most train operating companies would do this!
Adequate Wi-Fi
Not providing wi-fi and in addition 4G signals, is probably an easy way to reduce ridership.
Walk Through Trains
The fleets that have been bought recently, are all of this type, so I think it would be unlikely, that any new trains for the Southeastern franchise would be different.
My Thoughts
Train Length
Greater Anglia, Great Western Railway, South Western Railway and Virgin Trains East Coast have set a pattern, by ordering trains and half-trains, that can probably be used in a flexible manner.
Half-train/Full-train ratios for the various companies are.
- Great Western Railway – 1.6
- Greater Anglia – 4.0
- South Western Railway 0.5
- Virgin Trains East Coast – 0.5
Each company has chosen an appropriate number of trains for their routes, but each can adjust numbers by running two half-trains as a full train.
So will we see the same strategy on a future Southeastern franchise?
Perhaps most trains will be twelve-car trains with a small number of six-car trains, that can work together as required.
Train Speed
In Kent On The Cusp Of Change – Elimination Of Slow Trains, I came to this conclusion.
All trains incapable of running a service at 100 mph should be eliminated, just as the two operators;Greater Anglia and South Western Railway, are planning to do.
All of the new Southeastern franchise’s trains should be 100 mph trains.
Could Third-Rail Tram-Trains Be Used To Increase Services In South London?
I ask this question, as some of the frequencies on suburban lines in South London aren’t up to their equivalent in the North.
Sutton Loop Line
As an example, Sutton Common station on the Sutton Loop Line of Thameslink, has this Off Peak service according to Wikipedia.
The typical off-peak service from the station is 2 trains per hour to Wimbledon (clockwise around the loop) and 2 trains per hour to Sutton (anticlockwise).
Other stations on the loop with this level of service include Haydons Road, Morden South, St. Helier, South Merton, Tooting, West Sutton and Wimbledon Chase.
On the other side of the loop via Mitcham Junction station, the service is augmented by London Victoria to Epsom services, running at two trains per hour (tph).
People might say, that the solution to the poor service at stations on the Sutton Loop Line is just to run four tph in both directions round the loop.
But that would probably mean the Snow Hill Tunnel with its capacity of 24 tph, will become overloaded.
Thameslink’s Route To Sevenoaks
Crofton Park station on Thameslink’s route to Sevenoaks station has this Off Peak service according to Wikipedia.
Two trains per hour to West Hampstead Thameslink and Sevenoaks.
The passengers moan about it as I wrote in The Natives Are Getting Restless In Crofton Park.
They want four tph now!
But again they can’t have them, as it’s the capacity of the Snow Hill Tunnel.
Transport For London’s Philosophy
Transport for London, have released a report on the Bakerloo Line Extension that they call the Option Selection Summary Report.
It is one of those worthy documents, you get from analysing the data from consultations.
But it is full of several nuggets, which although not directly associated with the Bakerloo Line could be very important for passengers coming from or venturing to South London.
They have also provided this helpful map, which lays out possible actions and improvements.
It seems to me that TfL are following a plan to add more transport hubs to their network South of the Thames.
Currently, the following are important interchanges between Underground, Overground, trains, Tramlink and buses.
- Bromley South
- Clapham Junction
- East Croydon
- Greenwich
- Lewisham
- Wimbledon
- Woolwich
Note.
- East Croydon will benefit in a large way from Thameslink, but so will Greenwich and Woolwich in a smaller way.
- Clamham Junction and Wimbledon will be stations on from Crossrail 2, if it’s ever built.
- Lewisham will become the terminus of the Bakerloo Line.
The map and other sources also show other stations becoming important transport hubs or connections.
- Brixton, where all the lines in the area are in a single station.
- Brockley
- Catford, where the current Catford and Catford Bridge stations become one station.
- Crystal Palace, which will soon get extra services from Whitechapel and Highbury and Islington stations.
- Orpington
- Penge
- Streatham Common
- Sutton
London Bridge station shouldn’t be ignored, as after Thameslink is completed, it will be an efficient interchange between the North-South Thameslink services and the Southeastern services between Charing Cross/Cannon Street and the wider South-East.
Put all of these proposals together and could third-rail tram-trains be a useful addition to transport in South London?
I will detail a few possible routes.
Onward From Beckenham Junction To Bromley South or Orpington
In Could Beckenham Junction To Birkbeck Be Run Using Third-Rail Tram-Trains?, I detailed how third-rail tram-trains could be used between Harrington Lane tram stop and Beckenham Junction station to create more capacity.
If run by tram-trains, this service could be extended to Bromley South or Orpington.
Orpington station has four bay platforms facing towards London and Beckenham Junction.
This map from carto.metro.free.fr shows the track layout at the station.
The tracks reduce from four to two at Orpington station, which probably means that tram-trains should probably not go further than Orpington station.
Bromley South station is another possibility for a terminus for tram-trains and this map from carto.metro.free.fr, shows the station layout.
The tram-trains would probably use the two Northern tracks.
At present there are the following services between Birkbeck and Beckenham Junction stations.
- 2 trains per hour between London Bridge and Beckenham Junction
- 6 trams per hour between East Croydon and Beckenham Junction
Looking at the frequencies, I suspect that if two of the trams per hour, were tram-trains and ran to Bromley South and Orpington, this could be accommodated in the timetable.
I think that this route would have the following advantages.
- Bromley South and Orpington stations would be valuable interchanges to Southeastern’s and Thameslink’s Kentish destinations.
- Running tram-trains between Birkbeck and Beckenham Junction stations as tram-trains on a double-track line, must improve capacity and reliability.
- Bromley town centre has been touted as an extension to Tramlink.
Bromley South station, might not be Bromley town centre, but it is only a short walk.
However, if it were needed, I suspect that a single-track spur to serve the town centre could be created to the West of Bromley South station.
This Google Map shows the Southern end of Bromley High Street and Bromley South station.
It could probably use battery power to pull up the short hill to Bromley town centre.
- The terminal tram stop could be at the South end of the pedestrianised area.
- The on-street route would be single-track, bi-directional and electrically dead.
- A second tram stop could be provided by Bromley South station.
- The maximum frequency to a single platform would probably be two trams per hour.
In some ways, the town centre tram stop is a bay platform for Bromley South station, that can only be used by tram-trains with a battery capability.
Onward From Harrington Road To Crystal Palace
It was always hoped that Tramlink could be extended to Crystal Palace station and this has been developed as Route 5.
The Wikipedia entry for Harrington Road tram-stop says this.
Transport for London once had plans to extend the Tramlink system to Crystal Palace. These plans were known as Extension D or Tramlink route 4, and would have involved a junction to the north of Harrington Road, with the extension joining the existing railway in the opposite direction to the current line 2.
The planned extension to Crystal Palace was formally dropped by Transport for London in 2008.
But using tram-trains could make this a more flexible low-cost option.
- Battery power could be used to go to the terminus at Crystal Palace Parade.
- Battery trams would be very easy to install in a park, if required.
- A charging station, like a Railbaar, could be provided at the terminus, if the battery running looked like needing assistance.
- Tram-trains could go past Crystal Palace to a station with a suitable bay platform.
This Google Map shows the route.
Note Crystal Palace in the North West corner, by the running track and Birkbeck station in the South East.
New tram stops have been proposed at Penge Road and Anerley Road and as the lroute will be run by tram-trains, I suspect that an innovative island station design could serve both tram-trains and trains.
Crystal Palace station, which in a couple of years will have six tph from the well-connected Whitechapel, would benefit from a Tramlink connection.
Onward From Elmers End To Catford
Elmers End station has six trams per house from East Croydon.
This Google Map shows the station.
Note how it connects to the Hayes Line and I doubt if it would be difficult to allow through running of tram-trains between East Croydon and stations to the North on the Hayes Line.
The logical Northern terminus would probably be in a new Catford Interchange, which Transport for London have talked about to combine Catford and Catford Bridge stations.
This Google Map shows the two stations and Catford town centre.
A tram-train could probably run on batteries to the town centre, perhaps with a terminus at Catford Broadway by Lewisham Town Hall and the Broadway Theatre.
But with the right design of the new interchange, the tram-train could go further North to a station with a handy bay platform, if that was deemed necessary.
Increasing The Frequency On The Sutton Loop Line
As I said earlier stations on the Western side of the loop, generally get about two tph in both directions, but those on the Eastern side get an extra two tph going between Victoria and Epsom.
The trains on the line are typically eight-car trains of a variety of types. Capacity may be a problem, but a line like this needs at least four tph all day.
There could also be a case for an extra station to serve St. George’s Hospital and perhaps another as part of the development at Hackbridge.
There is a Hackbridge Masterplan on Wikipedia. This is the first paragraph.
The London Borough of Sutton is working to make Hackbridge the ‘UK’s first truly sustainable suburb’. There has been a regeneration scheme in Hackbridge which has a number of developments on many sites. These are mentioned as part of the Hackbridge Regeneration. Detailed plans include proposals for new eco-friendly homes, more shops, leisure and community facilities, jobs, sustainable transport and pedestrian/ cycle initiatives, improved networks and open spaces.
It all sounds good to me. This is a Google Map of the area.
Hackbridge
Note the rail line going up the map with Hackbridge station about a quarter of the way up.At the top of the map, is an icon indicating the BedZed Pavilion.
If they are truly into green transport, it strikes me, that there needs to be another station between Hackbridge station and Mitcham Junction station, which is the next one to the North. As the Tramlink through Mitcham Junction runs down the eastern side of the site and has a stop at Beddington Lane on the north east corner, I would also feel that there scope for extensions to the through Hackbridge.
So for frequency and environmental reasons, I think there is a strong case to improve the Sutton Loop Line.
The obvious way to increase the service would be to have two tph start and finish in a bay platform, at the proposed Streatham Common transport interchange. Not only would it provide four tph on the whole loop, but if the trains were scheduled correctly, all stations on the loop would have the following services to Blackfriars.
- 2 tph direct.
- 2 tph with a change at Streatham Common.
- 2 tph direct via Sutton
- 2 tph via Sutton with a change at Streatham Common.
With good design the change at Streatham Common could be a walk across the platform.
I don’t think that the extra services would need to be eight-car trains, but why use tram-trains?
The tram-trains major advantage is that they could go walkabout to perhaps serve some of the new developments or hospitals like St. Helier or the Royal Marsden.
Using The Sutton Loop Line As A Reversing Loop For Trams From Croydon
This Google Map shows Mitcham Junction station.
I don’t think it would be too difficult to add chords to the junction, so that a tram-train coming from Croydon could transfer from Tramlink to the Sutton Loop Line. The tram-train would then go round the loop including passing through Wimbledon station on the opposite face of the Tramlink platform.
After returning to Mitcham Junction, the tram-train would return to Croydon.
It may seem a long way round, but there’s probably only a couple of minutes in it.
But it would need a chord at Streatham Common for the tram-trains to by-pass the station.
This Google Map shows the location of the proposed Streatham Common interchange.
The current Streatham Common station is in the East, The interchange would be built, where the lines cross.
The chord would be built to the South of where the two lines of the Sutton Loop meet, at the bottom of the map.
The track could be adjusted, so that tram-trains could go round the loop both ways.
Will The Victoria-Epsom Service Call At Streatham Common Interchange?
Stops with modern trains are much quicker than they used to be only a few years ago.
So If the design of Streatham Common station and the timetable could allow a fast interchange, it might improve journey times for those living on the Wimbledon side of the Sutton Loop Line, which don’t get direct services from Victoria.
The Proposed Tramlink Extension To Sutton
The proposed Tramlink route Between South Wimbledon And Sutton is possibly a worthwhile extra public transport link to throw into the mix. It is described under Extension A in the Wikipedia entry for Tramlink. This is said.
In July 2013, Mayor Boris Johnson affirmed that there is a reasonable business case for Tramlink to cover the Wimbledon – Sutton corridor. A map has been released showing the planned route. It would leave the existing route just to the east of Morden Road and head along the A24 and A297 to Rosehill Roundabout, then the B2230 through Sutton town centre, ending at the station. A loop via St Helier Hospital and a possible extension to Royal Marsden Hospital also are shown.
This is a map of the route.
So how would third-rail tram-trains using the Sutton Loop Line affect the proposed Tranlink Extension to Sutton?
- There are at least four tph in both directions on the Sutton Loop Line.
- The trams will reach Sutton, but only running as trains.
- St. Helier Hospital is not served.
- Tram-trains could possibly serve the Epsom Downs Branch, in addition to the direct services to Victoria.
I describe how third-rail tram-trains could serve the Epsom Downs Branch and the Royal Marsden Hospital in Could Third-Rail Tram-Trains Work The Epsom Downs Branch?
The Worksites Of The Bakerloo Site Extension
Building the Bakerloo Line Extension will hopefully finish around 2028/29.
So I’m publishing these maps of the areas, that could be affected by works, so if perhaps you’re thinking of moving house, you can take an appropriate decision.
The Route
This is TfL’s latest route map between Elephant and Castle and Lewisham stations.
Note the two completely new stations with the imaginative names of Old Kent Road 1 and Old Kent Road 2.
The full document is here on the Transport for London web site.
The Worksites
The sites are given in route order from the North.
Elephant And Castle
The map from carto.metro.free.fr shows the lines through the station.
The North-South lines across the map are from West to East.
- The Charing Cross Branch of the Northern Line – Dated 13/09/1926
- The Bakerloo Line – Dated 05/08/1906
- The Bank Branch of the Northern Line.
- Thameslink to Blackfriars and Orpington, Rainham, Sevenoaks, Sutton and Wimbledon.
Just below this map is Kennington station, where the two branches of the Northern Line meet and will divide to Morden and Battersea Power Station stations.
Elephant and Castle is effectively two separate stations at present, with one for the Bakerloo Line and one for the Northern Line. Both stations have lifts and narrow, dingy platforms and passageways. Connections between the two stations underground is not good.
These pictures of Elephant and Castle station were taken on February 12th, 2017
Works envisaged at Elephant and Castle station include.
- A new larger ticket hall for the Bakerloo Line
- Wider platforms for the Bakerloo Line
- Escalators aren’t mentioned, but would probably be included for the Bakerloo Line
- New ticket hall for the Northern Line
- Three escalators and more lifts for the Northern Line to provide step-free access.
- Better connections between the two lines.
I would hope that a comprehensive design would include a step-free link to the Thameslink station.
I suspect, that the two stations could be rebuilt as two separate projects, with the Northern Line station being updated before the Bakerloo Line station.
If the two projects were properly planned, I believe that trains could continue to run on the Northern Line throughout the works, with trains running to the Bakerloo Line platforms until they needed to be closed for updating and connection to the new tunnels.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see an updated pedestrian connection between the Bakerloo and Northern Line platforms created first, so that at least one entrance to the platforms is available throughout the works.
This Google Map shows the area around Elephant and Castle.
Eephant And Castle
Transport for London have said they need a worksite in the area.
Bricklayers Arms
Bricklayers Arms is known to many as a roundabout and flyover on the A2 into London.
This Google Map shows the roundabout.
Bricklayers Arms
It is one of two possible locations for a shaft that will be needed between Elephant and Castle and Old Kent Road 1 stations.
These pictures of Bricklayers Arms were taken on February 12th, 2017.
The worksite could be in the middle of the roundabout.
Faraday Gardens
This Google Map shows the South-East corner of Faraday Gardens.
Faraday Gardens
It is one of two possible locations for a shaft that will be needed between Elephant and Castle and Old Kent Road 1 stations.
These pictures of Faraday Gardens were taken on February 13th, 2017
The worksite could be in the a hard playground.
My personal view is that the Bricklayers Arms site is the better from a working point of view, but is it in the best position?
Old Kent Road 1 Station
This Google Map shows the area, where Old Kent Road 1 station will be located.
Old Kent Road 1 Station
There are two options given for the location of the station.
Note the Tesco Southwark Superstore in the middle of the map, with its car park alongside.
- Option A for the station is on the other side of Dunton Road and slightly to the North West of the car park.
- The other Option B is on the Old Kent Road on the site of the store itself.
These pictures of the area around the Tesco store were taken on February 12th, 2017.
The group of people most affected by the construction of the station will be those who shop at this Tesco.
I suspect that given the company’s current position, Tesco would be happy to co-operate with TfL. After all there must be advasntages in having a superstore on top of an Underground station.
If the Tesco Superstore had to be knocked down, there are lots more anonymous architectural gems like this one.
So I wouldn’t be surprised to see Option B implemented, with a brand new station alongside the Old Kent Road.
Old Kent Road 2 Station
There are two options for this station.
This Google Map shows the location of Option A opposite B & Q.
Option A For Old Kent Road 2 Station
The station will be on the the Currys PCWorld site along the road.
These pictures of the area around the Currys PCWorld store were taken on February 12th, 2017.
This Google Map shows the location of Option B on the Toys R Us site on the other side of the Old Kent Road.
Option B For Old Kent Road 2 Station
These pictures of the area around the Toys R Us store were taken on February 12th, 2017.
Both chosen sites would appear to have plenty of space and wouldn’t require the demolishing of any housing.
Note that the Toys R Us stored was closed in April 2018. Did Transport for London rewrite their plans and are they in negotiation for the now-vacant site?
New Cross Gate Station
New Cross Gate station is an existing Overground and National Rail station.
This Google Map shows the station and the Retail Park, that is alongside the station to the West.
New Cross Gate Station
These pictures of the area around the Sainsburys store were taken on February 12th, 2017.
The worksite would take over the car park, with the station being built underneath.
This worksite is very much the most important site of the extension. The consultation says this.
The size of the proposed site provides several opportunities for the project. It could allow soil to be taken away by train rather than using local roads. We could also start the tunnel machinery from this site.
When the station is completed, I can envisage New Cross Gate becoming an important transport hub, with a quality shopping experience.
Alexandra Cottages
Alexandra Cottages, a short road off Lewisham Way has been proposed as the location of a shaft between New Cross Gate and Lewisham stations.
This Google Map shows the location.
Alexandra Cottages
I suppose the site has been chosen, as the site contains a Big Yellow Self Storage facility and a Ladbrokes betting shop.
These pictures of the area around the storage facility were taken on February 13th, 2017.
Will the shaft be buried in the basement of a development suitable for the area?
Lewisham Station
This Google Map shows the current Lewisham station.
These pictures of the area around the Lewisham station were taken on February 13th, 2017.
The new Bakerloo Line station will be underground between the station and Matalan. The area is currently bus parking.
Because of the different levels and tunnels and some railway arches in good condition, the addition of the Bakerloo Line station could be a challenging one, but also one that could be architecturally worthwhile.
Consider.
- Is the current station built on arches, that could allow passengers to circulate underneath?
- Could escalators and lifts connect the main line and ?Underground stations?
- Could there be significant oversite development on top of the station?
- Could the Bakerloo Line station be built without a blockade of the current station?
- Will Lewisham station be reorganised to be less of a bootleneck?
It will be interesting to see the final design.
Wearside Road
This Google Map shows the worksite in Wearside Road, which will be used to create a shaft to the overrun tunnels.
The multi-track line going North-West to South-East is the South Eastern Main Line, whilst the line going South-West to North-East is the Hayes Line.
The worksite will go at the Northern end of the light-coloured area South of where the two lines cross.
This map from carto.metro.free.fr shows the lines in the area.
I think it is quite likely that the overrun tunnels will be under the Hayes Line.
Extension To Hayes
This document on the Lewisham Borough Council web site is a must-read document, as it gives the view of the Council and their consultants; Parsons Brinckerhoff about the Bakerloo Line Extension.
The report is very much in favour of the Extension being built and it hopes that it can be extended using the Hayes Line, where the trains would terminate at either at Hayes or Beckenham Junction stations.
Currently, Elephant and Castle station handles 14 tph, so as there would appear to be no terminal platform at that station, at least this number of trains will connect between the Bakerloo Line at Lewisham station and the Hayes Line..
But as other deep-level tube lines handle more trains, with the Victoria Line handling 36 tph by the end of this year, I don’t think it unreasonable to expect a service frequency in excess of 20 tph.
The Wikipedia entry for the New Tube for London is quoting 27 tph.
So could this give at least 10 tph to both Southern terminals?
To handle 10 tph, I think it reasonable to assume that two terminal platforms are needed.
Hayes has two platforms, but Beckenham Junction has only one spare platform, as this Google Map shows.
But I suspect if Waitrose are reasonable, a deal can be done.
If the overrun tunnels at Lewisham station,are more-or-less under the Hayes Line, these tunnels would be easily connected to the Hayes Line in the following manner.
, with all other services using the Courthill Loop to go on their way.
Hayes station would swap its two tph services to both Cannon Street and Charing Cross stations for at least a 10 tph service on the Bakerloo Line.
I also think, that services could go direct between Hayes and London Bridge, Cannon Street or Charing Cross using the Ladywell Loop.
Beckenham Junction would have a similar service and I’m sure this would please Lewisham Borough Council.
Network Rail would gain four paths per hour through Lewisham station to use for other services.
Lewisham Borough Council also suggests the following for the Hayes Line.
- Move Lower Sydenham station further to the North.
- Create an interchange between Catford and Catford Bridge stations.
- Look seriously at the zones of stations on the Hayes Line.
They are certainly forcible in what they want.
Conclusion
This extension, looks like it is a railway designed to be built without too much fuss and objections.
Most of the worksites seem to have good access and it would appear that few residential properties will be affected.
How Will They Build The Bakerloo Line Extension?
I ask this question, as my trip yesterday to Redbridge station, got me thinking.
Wanstead, Redbridge and Gants Hill stations share several characteristics.
- They are built under a main road.
- They are architecturally significant, with two being designed by Charles Holden.
During the Second World War, they were part of an underground factory for Plessey.
It strikes me that as the route of the Bakerloo Line Extension, will for some way, lie under the Old Kent Road, with two stations currently called; Old Kent Road 1 and Old Kent Road 2, that the section of line could be similar in nature to the Redbridge stretch of the Central Line.
This map shows a route.
Bakerloo Line Extension Map
I’m sure, that they’ll come up with better names, on their initial route to Lewisham, via New Cross Gate.
This Google Map, shows the route of the Old Kent Road from Bricklayers Arms to New Cross Gate station.
Bricklayers Arms To New Cross Gate
Bricklayers Arms is at the North-West corner of the map and New Cross Gate station is the South-East.
To my naive mind, the route would be one that an experienced Tunnelling Engineer would find attractive.
- Elephant and Castle station is not far to the West of Bricklayers Arms.
- The current Bakerloo Line station at Elephant and Castle points vaguely East, so could probably be connected to under Bricklayers Arms.
- The tunnels could go under the Old Kent Road between Bricklayers Arms and New Cross Gate.
- The tunnels could go under the railway between New Cross Gate and Lewisham stations.
- The Extension could terminate in two deep-level platforms under the current Lewisham station.
- The Old Kent Road is lined with supermarkets and large out-of-town stores like Asda, B & Q, Sainsburys and Toys R Us.
But possibly above all, the extension could probably be built without causing too much disruption to existing infrastructure.
I’ll look at a few issues in a bit more detail.
Cut And Cover Or Bored Construction
Some European nations would build the extension using cut and cover methods, but then we’re the tunnel kings!
As there has also been improvement in the tunnel boring machines over the last twenty years, I would expect that a big hole will be dug somewhere and then the main tunnels will be bored out, as is being done on the Northern Line Extension.
The choice of the main tunneling site will depend on several factors.
- Sufficient space.
- Good road or rail access to get heavy equipment to the site.
- Away from sensitive areas for noise.
Probably the most difficult problem, is getting the tunnel spoil out.
Although there are plenty of large sites along the Old Kent Road, look at this Google Map of New Cross Gate station.
New Cross Gate Station
Note that next to the station is a large Sainsburys. The supermarket group has form in co-operating with large rail infrastructure projects, in that their Whitechapel superstore was virtually rebuilt to make space and access for Crossrail.
So could we see the same co-operation here?
New Cross Gate Station
New Cross Gate station is the middle interchange on the Bakerloo Line Extension.
If as I speculated above, Sainsburys co-operate, I think we could see a rebuilt superstore growing into a more important shopping centre with good rail and tube access.
Consider.
- Trains between London Bridge and Surrey call.
- East London Line trains call.
- Thameslink trains will soon be passing through at speed.
- Around a dozen bus routes pass the station.
- There would probably be space for housing above the development.
So could we see New Cross Gate station growing into a major transport interchange?
Yes! Especially, if Thameslink called at the station!
Lewisham Station
Lewisham station has been proposed as the terminus of the Extension.
This map from carto.metro.free.fr shows the lines in through the station.
Lines Through Lewisham
Lewisham station has one of those layouts designed by Topsy.
Perhaps for now, the best solution would be to just add a couple of deep-level platforms to create a new terminus for the Bakerloo Line.
Consider.
- Transport for London are planning at least 36 trains per hour (tph) between two underground two platform terminals on the Victoria Line.
- Battersea Power Station station is being built like this.
- I doubt the extension will need a depot South of Elephant and Castle station.
Lewisham station would be rebuilt to provide a high capacity interchange between all services at the station.
The Bakerloo Line Train Frequency
Wikipedia says this in the Current And Future Infrastructure section of the Bakerloo Line.
Transport for London proposes to upgrade the line eventually, but not until other deep-level lines have been dealt with. This will include new signalling and new trains, enabling a maximum frequency of 27 trains per hour. TfL currently expects these to be in place by 2033.
So when the Extension is built, it would seem logical that the line could be rebuilt for 27 tph.
The Northern Section Of The Bakerloo Line
If the Bakerloo Line is extended to the South, then it would seem logical that the Northern end should be improved to take the increased number of trains, which share a lot of the line to Watford Junction with London Overground.
Platform Height Issues
At some station on the Northern section to get in to and out of the Bakerloo Line 1972 Stock trains, is quite a step and it would be difficult in a wheel-chair.
I have covered this in Platform Height Issues On The Watford DC Line and feel that dual-height platforms could be used.
Onward From Lewisham
Most proposals for the extension of the Bakerloo Line, envisage the line taking over one or both of the terminals on the Hayes Line.
Wikipedia has a section on the current proposal.
This is said.
In December 2015, Transport for London announced that the Old Kent Road option was indeed its preferred route, and proposed taking the line as far as Lewisham, which it said could be running by 2030. Proposals for a further extension beyond Lewisham, such as to Hayes and Beckenham or Bromley, would now be considered in a separate phase in the more distant future.
But I do wonder, if extensions to Hayes and Beckenham Junction could be less necessary than they were a few years ago.
- The construction of a Camberwell station on Thameslink is being considered.
- Good design at New Cross Gate and Lewisham could improve connections for passengers on the Hayes Line.
- The extra capacity across the South Bank and through London Bridge, must benefit passengers from the Hayes Line.
- Elmers End station is getting an improved Tramlink service.
Bear in mind too, that Transport for London now have much better statistics from which to plan new connections and lines.
How would the following smaller projects on various wish-lists affect services South from Lewisham?
- Better links connecting to Abbey Wood station in addition to Crossrail.
- A decent connection between Catford and Catford Bridge stations.
- Interchanges at Brockley and Penge on the East London Line.
Could they even kick extension of the Bakerloo Line in the Hayes direction into at least the 2040s?
The Issue Of Bakerloo And National Rail Trains Sharing Tracks
If the Bakerloo Line is to be extended past Lewisham on the Hayes Line to Hayes and Beckenham Junction, you have the problem of two types of train with different characteristics.
- First Class is not available on the Underground.
- Platform height can be matched to the train, to give level access.
Restricting the Bakerloo Line Extension to deep-level platforms at New Cross Gate and Lewisham, avoids the sharing issues, by keeping the two sizes of train separate.
- Bakerloo Line trains terminate at Lewisham.
- Good interchange must be provided between the Bakerloo Line and National Rail trains.
Obviously, by the correct design of the deep-level platforms at Lewisham, extension of the Bakerloo Line to somewhere suitable in the future is not ruled out.
The Northern And Bakerloo Line Extensions Are Similar
The similarity between the two extensions is very strong.
- The Northern Extension adds two stations and the Bakerloo adds only four.
- Both extensions are reasonably short.
- Both extensions start at an existing station.
- Both extensions could end in similar underground two-platform terminals.
- Both extensions might be extended further.
So could the Bakerloo Line Extension be an ideal follow on project for the Northern Line Extension?
And after that, there are other follow-on projects, where provision for extension has been left.
- Extending the Northern Line Extension from Battersea Power Station to Clapham Junction.
- Extending the Bakerloo Line Extension to wherever is needed.
- Extending the Jubilee Line from North Greenwich and Charing Cross.
- Extending the DLR from Bank
- Extending the Victoria Line to Herne Hill.
Could the relative success in getting such a good start on the Northern Line Extension, with hardly any controversy or disruption have influenced Transport for London to bring forward the Bakerloo Line Extension.
Perhaps with even the same team!
Conclusion
I feel that the Bakerloo Line extension will be built in a very similar way to the Northern Line Extension.
The more I dig, the more I like the plan for the extension and think it is right for project management reasons to bring it forward.
The Anonymous Widower 