Surrey Quays Station On The London Overground Getting Step-Free Access
This is part of the package of upgrades that I wrote about in More Frequent Trains And A New Station For The London Overground, that was published in 2019.
It looks like the upgrade will start this year. and be finished in 2026.
More Frequent Trains And A New Station For The London Overground
The title of this post, is the same as that of this article on IanVisits.
This is said.
In a statement, the government agreed to requests for £80.8 million from the GLA to support transport upgrades so that 14,000 homes can be built along the East London Line.
Upgrades include.
- New Bermondsey station, which was originally to be called Surrey Canal Road, will be built.
- A second entrance will be built at Surrey Quays station.
- Frequency between Dalston Junction and Clapham Junction stations will be increased from four trains per hour (tph) to six tph.
- Frequency between Highbury & Islington and Crystal Palace stations will be increased from four tph to six tph.
The frequency upgrades will mean twenty tph between Dalston Junction and Surrey Quays stations, or a train every three minutes as opposed to the current three minutes and forty-five seconds.
A few thoughts follow.
Surrey Quays Station Upgrade
Ian’s article says this about the new entrance at Surrey Quays station.
The very cramped Surrey Quays station gets a second entrance, which will run under the main road and be based on the north side, where the shopping centre car park is today. That avoids crossing two busy roads, which can take some time if you’re waiting for the lights to change.
This Google Map shows the station and the car park of the Shopping Centre.
These are my pictures, taken at and around the station.
Traffic is bad and the subway suggested by Ian’s wording will be very welcome.
Collateral Benefits At New Cross Gate
New Cross Gate station will be one of several stations along the East London Line to see benefits in service frequency and quality.
The train frequency on East London Line services will rise from eight tph to ten tph.
But this is not all that should or could happen.
- The service between Highbury & Islington and West Croydon stations could rise from four tph to six tph.
- This would mean that New Cross Gate would have a twelve tph service to and from Whitechapel, which in a year or so, will have Crossrail connections to Canary Wharf, Bond Street, Paddington and Heathrow.
- Southeastern should be getting new higher-capacity, higher-performance and possibly longer trains to replace their elderly trains into London Bridge.
- Charing Cross station is redeveloped into a higher-capacity, cross-river station, to allow more trains.
- Digital signalling, as used on Thameslink will be extended to cover all trains through New Cross and New Cross Gate.
- The Docklands Light Railway to Lewisham will get new and higher-capacity trains.
- Southeastern Metro services could go to the London Overground.
Could this all mean that the East London Line, Southeastern and Crossrail will more than hold the fort until it is decided to build the Bakerloo Line Extension?
The Bakerloo Line Extension
This map from TfL shows the route of the Bakerloo Line Extension.
If and when the Bakerloo Line Extension is built, New Cross Gate will surely become a major transport hub.
If you look at the current and proposed stations on the Southern section of an extended Bakerloo Line, you can say the following.
- Paddington will get a step-free pedestrian link between Crossrail and the Bakerloo Line.
- Charing Cross will benefit from more Southeastern Metro services into the main line station.
- Waterloo will benefit from more Southeastern Metro services through the attached Waterloo East station.
- Elephant & Castle station will benefit from more Thameslink services through the attached main line station.
- New Cross Gate will benefit from more Southeastern Metro and East London Line services through the station.
- Lewisham will benefit from more Southeastern Metro services through the station.
But there are no interim benefits for the blue-mauve area, that will be served by the proposed Old Kent Road 1 and Old Kent Road 2 stations.
In addition, is there a need to add capacity between the New Cross area and Lewisham? Southeastern improvements will help, but the Bakerloo Line Extension will do a lot more!
Except for these two stations, is there a reason to build an extension to the Bakerloo Line, as train services between Charing Cross, Waterloo East and New Cross and Lewisham will be significantly increased in frequency, reach and quality?
A Bakerloo Line Extension Redesign
Whatever happens to the Bakerloo Line, the following should be done.
- New walk-through trains running at a higher-frequency on the current route.
- Major access improvements and better connection to main line services at Elephant & Castle, Waterloo East, Charing Cross and Willesden Junction stations.
- A radical reorganisation North of Queen’s Park station, in conjunction with the Watford DC Line and the proposed West London Orbital Railway.
This would improve the current line, but it would do nothing for those living where the extension will go!
So why not do what is happening to the Northern Line at Battersea and create a short extension to the Bakerloo Line that serves the areas that need it and one that can be extended in the future?
- You could argue, that the extension to Lewisham is short and it could be extended to Hayes and other places.
- I also think, that the route goes via New Cross Gate, as that is one of the few sites in the area, from where a large tunnel could be built.
Ideally, what could be needed is a high-capacity public transport link from Elephant & Castle and Greenwich and/or Lewisham via the Old Kent Road, New Cross Gate and New Cross.
The Germans, the Dutch and others wouldn’t mess about and would run trams along the road, but that would go down with the locals like a lead West London Tram.
So it looks like some form of extension of the Bakerloo Line is the only way to go.
Consider.
- Two-platform terminal stations at Brixton and Walthamstow Central handle up to thirty-six tph on the Victoria Line.
- New Cross Gate and New Cross stations are about five hundred metres apart.
- Double-ended stations like Knightsbridge on the Piccadilly Line and Kings Cross on the Victoria Line work very well.
I would look at building a double-ended Bakerloo Line station deep underneath New Cross Road.
- It would be connected by escalators and lifts to the existing stations at New Cross Gate in the West and New Cross in the East.
- Provision would be made to extend the line further to either Greenwich or Lewisham.
- New Cross and Lewisham already have a high-frequency connection of six tph.
- The whole extension could be built from the single tunnelling location on the Sainsbury’s site at New Cross Gate.
- There would be no necessity for any works at Lewisham station.
It would probably need more services to be run between New Cross and Lewisham.
Current Services Between New Cross And Lewisham
Southeastern currently runs these services between New Cross and Lewisham.
- London Cannon Street and Slade Green via Sidcup
- London Cannon Street and Orpington via Grove Park
- London Cannon Street and Hayes
All services are two tph.
Extending The East London Line Service South From New Cross
New Cross is served by the only short service on the London Overground; the four tph between Dalston Junction and New Cross stations.
So could this East London Line service be extended South to serve Lewisham to increase services between New Cross and Lewisham?
This map from carto.metro.free.fr shows the lines at New Cross station.
Note how the double-track East London Line, shown in orange, arrives from Surrey Quays station arrives in the North-Western corner of the map, becomes a single-track and then goes under the main lines before going into the bay platform D.
This Google Map shows the same area.
The London Overground track is clearly visible.
Could extra track be added, to enable the following?
- Southbound trains could join the main line and stop in Platform C
- Northbound trains could leave the main line after stopping in Platform A and go towards Surrey Quays station.
If this is possible, then it would give a four tph service between Dalston Junction and Lewisham, with an important stop at Whitechapel to connect to Crossrail.
Lewisham doesn’t have the space for a terminal platform, but there would appear two possible terminals South of Lewisham.
- Hayes – Journey time to and from Dalston Junction would take around 53 minutes.
- Orpington – Journey time to and from Dalston Junction would take around 50 minutes.
Both stations would make ideal terminals.
- They have bay platforms for terminating the trains.
- Round trips would be a convenient two hours.
- Eight trains would be needed for the service.
- New Cross will have the same four tph to and from Dalston Junction as it does now!
- Lewisham and Dalston Junction would have a four tph service that would take 27 minutes.
The service could even be split with two tph to each terminal.
Will the Extended Services Need To Replace Other Services?
Currently Hayes has these current Off Peak services.
- Two tph to Cannon Street via London Bridge
- Two tph to Charing Cross via London Bridge
I would expect that if digital signalling is applied through the area, that the extra services could be added to Hayes and Orpington as decided.
An Improved Hayes Line
Transport for London and various commentators always assume that the Bakerloo Line will eventually take over the Hayes Line.
This will or could mean the following.
- Passengers used to a full-size train looking out on the countryside and back gardens through big windows, will have to get used to a more restricted view.
- Platforms on the Hayes Line will need to be rebuilt, so that two different size of train will be step-free between train and platform.
- The service could be slower.
- The ability to walk through an increasingly pedestrianised Central London to and from Cannon Street, Charing Cross and London Bridge will be lost.
- Loss of First Class seats. which will happen anyway!
I think that passengers could want to stick with the current service.
The only reason to allow the Bakerloo Line Extension to take over the Hayes Line, is that it would allow another four tph to run between Lewisham and London Bridge. But digital signalling could give the same benefit!
But what if the Overground muscled in?
The Hayes Line could take up to four tph between Dalston Junction and Hayes, via Lewisham and New Cross, which would give these benefits.
- Increased capacity on the Hayes Line.
- An excellent connection to Crossrail, which would give a better connection to the West End, Liverpool Street and Heathrow.
- Better connection to the Eastern side of the City of London and Canary Wharf.
- It could free up four tph between New Cross and London Bridge.
- Same-platform interchange between Southeastern and East London Line services at Lewisham and New Cross.
There would need to be these changes to the infrastructure.
- A new track layout at New Cross.
- Installation of digital signalling.
The latter will happen anyway.
Times To And From Crossrail
Times to and from Whitechapel, with its Crossrail connection are.
- Lewisham – 17 minutes
- Hayes – 44 minutes
- Orpington – 41 minutes
The current service between Orpington and Farrington, which also will connect to Crossrail, takes 52 minutes.
Penge Interchange
Although, this has not been funded, I think that this new interchange could be very much in Transport for London’s plans.
I discuss the possible Penge Interchange station in Penge Interchange.
It’s certainly something to watch out for, as it could improve connectivity by a large amount.
The View From The Dalston Omnibus
For decades, Dalston had a terrible reputation and then came the Overground, which changed everything.
There are now these combined devices from the two Dalston stations.
- Eight tph to Stratford
- Four tph to Richmond via Willesden Junction
- Four tph to Clapham Junction via Willesden Junction
- Four tph to Clapham Junction via Surrey Quays
- Four tph to Crystal Palace via Surrey Quays
- Four tph to New Cross via Surrey Quays
- Four tph to West Croydon via Surrey Quays
There is also a useful eight tph connecting service between Dalston Junction and Highbury & Islington.
In the next couple of years, these developments should happen.
- Services on the East London Line will be increased with an extra two tph to Clapham Junction and Crystal Palace.
- Services on the North London Line will be increased to cope with overcrowding. As the Dalston Junction and Highbury & Islington connecting service will be going to ten tph, it would seem logical that the North London Line service should match this frequency.
- Crossrail will open and Dalston will have a twenty tph connection to its services at Whitechapel.
Dalston needs better connections to either main line terminal stations or their interchanges a few miles out.
Currently, Dalston has very useful connections to the following main interchanges.
- Stratford for the Great Eastern Main Line.
- Clapham Junction for the South Western Railway and Southern services.
- Richmond for Windsor and Reading services.
- Whitechapel will provide a link to Crossrail.
- In addition the planned update at Norwood Junction will give better connection to services to Gatwick, Brighton and other services to the South of Croydon.
Better interchanges are needed with services to the North and the South East of London.
Extending the Dalston Junction and New Cross service to Hayes or Orpington via Lewisham could greater improve the train service from Dalston, by providing interchange to services fanning out into and beyond South East London.
Conclusion
I am drawn to these two conclusions.
- The Bakerloo Line should be extended via two new Old Kent Road stations to a double-ended terminal station in New Cross with interchange to both New Cross Gate and New Cross stations.
- The New Cross branch of the London Overground should be extended through Lewisham to Orpington and/or Hayes.
My preferred destination for the London Overground service could be Hayes, as this would surely help to free up paths through Lewisham and London Bridge.
A South London Metro
Some of my recent posts including.
- An Improved South London Line Is Proposed
- A New Station For Battersea
- The Lines At Battersea Power Station On the Way Into Victoria
- A Tunnel Under Brixton
Are leading me to the conclusion that it would be possible to create a South London Metro, that worked under similar principles to the East London Line.
The East London Line
If anybody doesn’t believe that the East London Line is one of the best creations on the world’s railways in recent years, then they should go and read something else now.
Consider.
- There is a core section between Dalston Junction and Surrey Quays stations, where sixteen trains per hour (tph) shuttle passengers under the river in modern trains.
- In Increased Frequencies On The East London Line, I indicated that TfL are planning to increase this frequency to 20 tph.
- At the Northern end four dedicated platforms at two different termini; Dalston Junction and Highbury and Islington give passengers choices of onward routes.
- At the Southern end, there are four separate termini; Clapham Junction, Crystal Palace, New Cross and West Croydon.
- Three of the southern termini have excellent onward connections and if the Tramlink is sorted at West Croydon, then that would be improved.
- The line has excellent connections to the Victoria and Jubilee Lines of the Underground and other rail lines.
It has been a marvellous success.
The North London Line
The North London Line is not as radical in its design as the East London Line, as it effectively just a a simple line across North London, that carries up to eight trains per hour and a lot of freight.
It has been successful, but not as successful as the East London Line.
The Future Of The Overground In North And East London
The success of removing, third-rate trains on the North and East London Lines is now being repeated on the Gospel Oak to Barking Line, where two-car diesel trains are being replaced with four-car electric ones.
But this is only the start, as other plans are being put together in North London.
- Will electrification be completed in North London by wiring the Dudding Hill Line?
- New stations like Brent Cross Thameslink, Old Oak Common and Angel Road are being created to support development.
- In the Walthamstow area, new curves will improve services on the Chingford Branch.
- Chiltern Railways have plans for a Chiltern Metro to West Ruislip station.
- The Metropolitan Line is being extended to Watford Junction.
- Thameslink will integrate and expand the suburban services out of Kings Cross and St. Pancras.
But to use the well-known phase – “You ain’t seen nothing yet!”
South London In The Slow Lane
South London is very second-rate compared to the North with respect to railways.
My mother always told me to never go South of the River, as I’d get lost.
Look at the historic radial routes out of East, North and West London termini like Euston, Fenchurch Street, Kings Cross, Liverpool Street, Marylebone, Paddington and St. Pancras and the lines have a simple structure that the average child of ten could understand. The Underground also follows a simple structure.
But if you look at trains South of the River, there is not even any logic as to which terminus you use to get your train, with the exception perhaps of Waterloo. Only South London’s crazy rules would mean that going to East Kent would be from the most western Southern terminus at Victoria.
It is mainly down to the fact that much of the rail network South of the River were developed by companies, whose idea of co-operation was stopping the other companies from expanding.
My mother was so very right!
There are problems galore of inadequate infrastructure.
- Some stations are in desperate need of more platforms.
- Lines often cross each other in flat junctions, which severely limit capacity.
- Many of the lines have heavy peak-hour use from commuters and infrequent services in the off-peak.
- Any electrification is non-standard third-rail.
- The main lines don’t have enough capacity.
- Commuters are also often very vocal opponents of even the smallest change.
Even new lines like the Channel Tunnel Rail Link at Ebbsfleet International and Crossrail at Abbey Wood are only partly integrated into the existing network and don’t share a station.
The engineers are doing their best with innovative schemes like the Bermondsey Dive-Under, but the railways in South London need a whole new philosophy to meet the challenges of the twenty-first century.
North London may have a long list of projects in the pipeline, but after the upgrading of Thameslink and the Northern Line Extension to Battersea, South London’s future plan is very thin.
In some ways Crossrail 2 sums up the South. North London will be affected by this line’s construction, but all of the protests are from Chelsea, which can probably be ignored, and South London.
The Centre For London Proposals
In the June 2016 Edition of Modern Railways, there was an article entitled Turning South London Orange, which is a radical set of proposals from an organisation called the Centre for London, with the aim of improving rail services in South London.
This is a summary of their proposals, as they affect the lines across South London from Victoria to Peckham Rye, Herne Hill and Surrey Quays.
- A tunnel should be built from Battersea to South of Herne Hill under Brixton to remove fast services from Victoria to Kent from the area.
- The four-track South London Line should be reconfigured so that London Overground services use the Northern rather than the Southern pair of tracks.
- A new station is built at Battersea linking the Northern Line Extension to the South London Line.
One of the consequences of this, is that it would be possible to create three modern step-free stations at Wandsworth Road, Clapham High Street and Brixton, with the latter two connected to the Northern and Victoria Lines of the Underground using escalators and/or lifts.
A South London Metro
So what would a South London Metro look like?
I will assume the following.
- The fast line tunnel under Brixton is built.
- The South London Line is reconfigured to put the London Overground service on the Northern pair of tracks.
- A new interchange station is built at Battersea.
In the next few sections, I will look at the various parts of the South London Metro.
The Brixton Tunnel
Although not actually part of the South London Metro, the Brixton Tunnel must be built before the Metro can be created, as it removes all the fast Chatham Main Line services between Victoria and Kent, from the lines across South London.
Trains will use a tunnel between Battersea and South of Herne Hill.
So what Southeastern Mainline services, that serve Victoria could use the tunnel?
- 1 tph to Ramsgate via Chatham with a first stop at Bromley South.
- 1 tph to Dover via Chatham with a first stop at Bromley South.
- 1 tph to Dover via Chatham with a first stop at Orpington and a second at Bromley South.
- 1 tph to Canterbury West via Maidstone East with a first stop at Bromley South.
- 1 tph to Ashford International via Maidstone East with a first stop at Bromley South.
There are another nine trains per day running in the peak.
The question has to be asked, if extra services can be provided through a fast tunnel, as the current number of trains might even be within the capacity of a single-track tunnel.
But I suspect that for redundancy and safety reasons that the five-kilometre tunnel would probably be built as double track or a twin-bore tunnel.
At present non-stop services take sixteen minutes between Victoria and Bromley South stations, which is a distance of 20.4 kilometres, which gives a start-to-stop average speed of about 75 kph. At that speed the trains would take around four minutes to pass through the tunnel. So even if the Class 375 trains, that generally work the line went through at full speed of 160 kph, not much would be saved on the journey.
But given the transit time through the tunnel of four minutes or less and the generally low number of trains through the tunnel, I suspect that a single-track tunnel is under serious consideration.
But I would future-proof the line by providing a double-track tunnel.
As Bombardier have said, that the Class 375 trains could be retro-fitted with on-board energy storage, I suspect too that the tunnel could even be left without electrification, as an electrically-dead tunnel must be safer in the unlikely event of a train needing to be evacuated. Evacuation will probably be through the side doors of the trains onto a walkway, as is proposed for Crossrail.
I think that the developments in infrastructure creation and the powering of trains in the last few years could enable a very radical and affordable approach to building this tunnel.
I think there’s a chance we’ll see this five kilometre tunnel bored as a single bore, with either one or two tracks, but no electrification.
Remember that the Severn Tunnel, which is the longest main line rail tunnel in the UK and was built by the Victorians, is seven kilometres long.
London’s latest tunnel which is the Lee Tunnel for sewage is just under seven kilometres long, seven metres in diameter and at a depth of over seventy-five metres under East London. It is probably big enough for a third-rail electrified double-track railway. According to Wikipedia, the Lee Tunnel cost an estimated £635 million.
As we’re moving towards a Golden Age of Tunnelling, I think we’ll be seeing more tunnels proposed.
The Core Section
I would define the core section of the South London Metro as between Wandsworth Road and Peckham Rye stations, so it would also include the following intermediate stations.
- Clapham High Street
- Brixton
- Denmark Hill
If fast services from Victoria to Kent are in a tunnel under Brixton and Herne Hill, the Centre for London Report says that it would be possible for London Overground services to use the Northern pair of tracks rather than the Southern ones. Freight, empty stock movements and other non-stopping services would continue to use the Southern tracks.
At present there are just four tph each way on the Overground along the current line, but as the East London Line core is currently handling sixteen tph, I would think it possible, subject to some reorganisation of the tracks at the two ends of the core section, that all Metro and Overground services could share the Northern tracks and platforms.
Similar sharing has been done successfully between New Cross Gate and Norwood Junction on the Overground, since the East London Line was extended to West Croydon in 2010. On that existing route, the fast trains have their own separate tracks out of the way, just as under the Centre for London proposals, fast trains between Victoria and Kent will be separated in a tunnel under Brixton.
As to the ultimate capacity of the core section, who knows? Figures of 24 tph have been quoted as possible for the East London Line, but twenty through the core will do well for several years.
I suspect that as the only trains on the Northern pair of tracks through South London will be slow Overground/Metro trains, that any routing problems could be solved by simple flat junctions, of which there are many already.
So how would this affect the stations on the core section?
- Wandsworth Road would have two new Northern platforms. As the lines split for Victoria and Clapham Junction just after the station, would each pair of lines and platforms be for appropriate destinations?
- Clapham High Street would have two new Northern platforms for Metro/Overground services. As the Northern platforms are closer to Clapham North station, it might be sensible to create an escalator connection between the two stations and not generally use the Southern platforms.
- East Brixton is a station, that has been discussed for rebuilding.
- Brixton would have reopened Northern platforms for Metro/Overground services. Services via Herne Hill would still use the current platforms and as no trains on the high-level lines over the station would stop, providing step-free access between the Victoria Line and Metro/Overground services would be much easier.
- Many believe that Loughborough Junction station should be connected to the Overground. If Metro/Overground services are moved to the Northern tracks as they go over Loughborough Junction station, I believe that step-free connection between new Metro/Overground platforms and Loughborough Junction is now possible.
- Denmark Hill station would need some reorganisation, but it is already step-free.
- Peckham Rye station would need some reorganisation and it is on the list of being made step-free.
The list of projects to create a core section of the South London Metro would include.
- Build the Brixton Tunnel
- Add the extra platforms and station infrastructure at Wandsworth Road station.
- Add the extra platforms and station infrastructure at Clapham High Street station.
- Create an escalator/lift connection between Clapham High Street and the Northern Line at Clapham North station.
- Reopen the Northern platforms at Brixton station.
- Create an escalator/lift connection between the low-level platforms at Brixton with the Victoria Line.
- Add two high-level platforms at Loughborough Junction station on the Metro/Overground lines.
- Make Loughbrough Junction station fully step-free.
- Make various changes to the tracks, so that all required routes are possible.
There would obviously be other small projects, but I can’t see anything major except for the building of the Brixton Tunnel, that would be needed to create a sixteen train-per-hour route from Victoria across South London.
All projects and that includes the Brixton Tunnel could be carried out without large disruption of the existing train services, which in my view is a tribute to the Centre for London proposals.
I think that without any further major infrastructure after the Brixton Tunnel has been built, and some other smaller projects that are already being planned, the core section of the South London Metro could be a run of step-free stations interchanging with the Northern and Victoria Lines, Thameslink and other services out of Victoria and London Bridge.
Reversal Stations
I also wonder if any of the core stations could be created with an island platform, so that passengers can reverse direction without going up and down stairs. This can already be done at Queens Road Peckham station if say you are on a Dalston Junction to Clapham Junction train and want to go to South Bermondsey or London Bridge.
Never underestimate passengers’ ability to duck and dive!
Connectivity just encourages passengers to take more outrageous, faster and convenient routes.
The Western Termini
At present there are two western termini for the services along the South London Line; Victoria and Clapham Junction and Victoria.
There is probably not enough platforms, if it is desired to run sixteen tph or more through the core, as is done on the East London Line.
Clapham Junction As A Western Terminus
At present 4 tph run to Clapham Junction and as I wrote in Increased Frequencies On The East London Line, this will be increased to 6 tph in 2019.
I suspect that despite the rather unusual platform arrangements at Clapham Junction, which I call The Clapham Kiss, that 6 tph can be handled at the station.
So I think it will be very much Carry On Clapham!
Victoria As A Western Terminus
At present, the following services serve Victoria along the South London Line.
- 4 tph to Orpington, which turn off at Brixton.
- 2 tph to Dartford via Bexleyheath, which turn off at Peckham Rye.
Combined with the 6 tph from Clapham Junction, between Wandsworth Road and Brixton, there are 12 tph.
Given that Victoria is crowded and needs more platforms, would it be possible to handle the South London Metro from a dedicated platform or pair of platforms in Victoria?
Assigned platforms at Dalston Junction certainly helps passengers, as you know where your train to the various destinations will call.
- Through Platform 1 for Highbury and Islington
- Bay Platform 2 for New Cross
- Bay Platform 3 for Clapham Junction
- Through Platform 4 for Crystal Palace and West Croydon
This is certainly what is happening today as I write.
I think it would be a great advantage if you went to a particular platform or pair of platforms to pick up the South London Metro.
This mini sub-station concept is used at.
- Cheshunt for the Lea Valley Lines
- Clapham Junction for the East London Line.
- Crystal Palace for the East London Line.
- Liverpool Street for the Lea Valley Lines.
- Richmond for the North London Line.
- Stratford for the North London Line.
Usually, you just look for the orange!
Battersea As A Western Terminus
Given that Victoria is crowded and probably needs more platforms, an alternative terminus is probably needed.
Just as when Dalston Junction was rebuilt for the East London Line, two bay platforms were incorporated, could the same thing be done at the new Battersea station?
Certainly, the system works well at Dalston Junction, so why wouldn’t a similar arrangement work at Batttersea?
- Passengers needing to get to Victoria on a train terminating at Battersea would just walk across the platform and wait a couple of minutes for the train to Victoria.
- Passengers from Victoria on a train going to a wrong destination would only have to go to Wandsworth Road to get a train to any destination, including those served from Clapham Junction.
It is a system, where to do any journey you either do it direct, or with a single same-platform change.
Old Oak Common As A Western Terminus
Because of the capacity problems and the unusual layout at Clapham Junction station, it might also be possible to use somewhere on the West London Line as a Western terminus.
Old Oak Common station with its connections to the West Coast Main Line, HS2, Crossrail and the North London Line would be an obvious choice.
The Eastern Termini
At present services from Victoria and Clapham Junction, go although the South London Line to the following destinations.
- Dalston Junction – 4 tph from Clapham Junction – 6 tph from 2019
- Dartford – 2 tph from Victoria via Bexleyheath
- Orpington – 4 tph from Victoria
Even with Dartford services raised to 4 tph, that is probably still below the capacity of the core section of the line.
Dalston Junction As An Eastern Terminus
I would assume that the current Dalston Junction to Clapham Junction service will continue.
Currently there are 4 tph, but this will go to 6 tph in 2019 as I wrote about in Increased Frequencies On The East London Line.
As TfL’s predictions in the document I found for 2016 and 2017 have already happened, I would think the 6 tph is likely, if the new Class 710 trains are delivered to boost the fleet.
With the increase in service frequency, London Overground Syndrome means that the passengers using the service will increase.
Dartford As An Eastern Terminus
At present, 2 tph go between Victoria and Dartford via Bexleyheath.
But is Dartford, the best terminal in the area for the South London Metro?
Consider.
- A Crossrail extension to Gravesend has been safeguarded, which goes through Dartford.
- Crossrail surely should connect directly to HS2.
- If Crossrail served Dartford, some of the other services would be simplified.
- Dartford will probably come under TfL control.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see 4 tph service along a South London Metro to a Dartford station, where Crossrail calls to give a direct link to HS2 at Ebbsfleet International.
London Bridge As An Eastern Terminus
As London Bridge station used to be linked along the South London Line to Victoria, this important station must be added.
Especially, as there were a lot of passengers, who objected to losing the direct service along the South London Line between London Bridge and Victoria.
On the East London Line, there is a short 4 tph service between Dalston Junction and New Cross which is used as a short direct service through the core, perhaps to boost train frequencies there.
So could a service with a similar frequency be run on the South London Line between Victoria and London Bridge? It could call at.
- South Bermondsey
- Queen’s Road Peckham
- Peckham Rye
- Denmark Hill
- Loughborough Junction
- Brixton
- Clapham High Street
- Wandsworth Road
- Battersea
It would have step-free connections to the Northern and Victoria Lines and Thameslink, if the appropriate stations were upgraded.
Orpington As An Eastern Terminus
I think that Orpington has the greatest potential as a terminal.
This map from carto.metro.free.fr shows the route from Kent House station via Beckenham Junction and Bromley South to Orpington.
It has very good connectivity.
- Beckenham Junction connects to the Tramlink.
- Bromley South connects to Thameslink, the Chatham Main Line and the Maidstone East Line.
- Orpington connects to the South Eastern Main Line and the Hastings Line.
Because of all this connectivity, Bromley and Orpington might be able to provide enough passengers for more than four trains per hour going to Victoria and/or Battersea.
Remember there will still be the five fast trains per hour through the Brixton Tunnel in addition to the stopping ones of the Metro.
Bellingham As An Eastern Terminus
When the Overground took over the line, there was some discussion about a service between Victoria and Bellingham.
So could Bellingham station be a terminus?
This Google Map shows the area around Bellingham station.
There doesn’t seem to be much of importance in the area, except the leisure centre.
In addition.
- The station doesn’t seem to have a suitable bay platform, but there may be space to build one.
- The station would provide a link to Thameslink.
- It only handles a couple of trains an hour most of the day, so perhaps the terminating of trains was to be slipped in the large gaps.
Perhaps it was all to stimulate development in the area.
An HS1 to HS2 Link
If Old Oak Common is chosen as a Western Terminus with a 4 tph service down the West London Line and the core route of the South London Metro, what would be a suitable terminal in the East?
Given what I said about Dartford as an Eastern terminus, surely a four tph service across South London linking HS1 and HS2 must enter into the route planners’ thinking.
As Crossrail does the business linking HS1 and HS2 for North and Central London, a South London Metro could be configured to do a similar job for a whole swath of South and West London.
A Brockley Interchange
The Centre for London report proposes a new pair of platforms on the South London Line between Nunhead and Lewisham stations, providing interchange with the existing Brockley station.
I gave my views on Brockley station in A Report On The Bakerloo Line Extension, which I now repeat in an edited form.
This Google Map shows Brockley station.
The Bexleyheath Line between Nunhead and Lewisham stations crosses the East London Line and Brockley station at a high level.
I wrote A Four-Poster Station about connecting these two lines.
It would appear that Transport for London have advanced this project from one word in their 2050 Infrastructure Plan to a proposal.
If the South London Metro included the services to Dartford via Bexleyheath, then this interchange at Brockley station might make some passengers journeys a lot easier.
A Penge Interchange
The Centre for London report proposes an interchange between Penge East station on the Chatham Main Line with Penge West station on the East London Line.
This Google Map shows the lines and the two Penge stations.
The report suggests that it would be possible to reduce the walking distance between the two stations from 650 to 400 metres and there might be potential to move Penge West station to the North of the High Street.
As the walking appears substantially to be flat, I wonder if a section of travelator would be possible!
I recently walked from East to West station and took these pictures.
One of the station staff said that they need step-ladders to access the Crystal Palace line, that runs over the top.
The walk incidentally took me fifteen minutes, so if it decreases from 650 to 400 metres, by moving the station North of the High Street that should reduce the time to under ten minutes.
Will a travelator be added.
As with the extra platforms at Brockley station, this interchange has the potential to ease some passengers journeys.
My Proposed Schedule
I will give my view of the trains on a South London Metro.
- 6 tph between Dalston Junction and Clapham Junction.
- 4 tph between Dartford and Old Oak Common.
- 4 tph between Victoria/Battersea and London Bridge
- 6 tph between Victoria/Battersea and Orpington
This gives a total of 20 tph, which would be the same as the East London Line will be in 2019.
The Rolling Stock
Due to platform restrictions on the East London Line, I would envisage that the trains between Dalston Junction and Clapham Junction will probably still be the same five-car Class 378 trains.
The trains on the other destinations can probably be anything suitable and would include Class 375, Class 377 or even some new Class 710 trains.
But as there is no platform restrictions to the other destinations, the trains could probably be any desired formation between four and twelve cars.
Any new platforms would of course be built to accept twelve-car trains.
Getting To Heathrow
At the present time, getting to Heathrow can be a bit of a problem from some places in South London.
But after Crossrail and Old Oak Common station are opened, it would just be a matter of getting one of a 4 tph South London Metro train to Old Oak Common and changing for Crossrail.
It may of course be easier to use one of the other possible routes to Crossrail.
- Take the Northern Line to Tottenham Court Road from Battersea or Clapham North.
- Take Thameslink to Tottenham Court Road.
- Go via Whitechapel.
We’ll all develop our favourite routes.
Getting To Gatwick
At the present time, Thameslink haven’t published their full route yet, but anybody on the South London Metro should be able to do one of the following.
- Go to Clapham Junction and get a direct train.
- Go to Victoria and get Gatwick Express.
- Go to London Bridge and get Thameslink.
Unfortunately, it looks like I might lose my option of going to New Cross Gate and getting a direct train.
Conclusion
A South London Metro running 16 tph or more between Wandsworth Road and Peckham Rye stations, with multiple termini at either end, must be a feasible and affordable possibility, if the following is done.
- The Brixton Tunnel is built to give fast Victoria to Kent services a by-pass.
- The Overground/Metro services are moved to the Northern pair of tracks on the South London Line.
- Various station and track improvements are carried out.
It looks to me, that this project could transform South London and improve the lot of people like me, who live on the East London Line.
The Millwall Path
This path wasn’t here, the last time I walked this way. So I had to explore.
It eventually led to South Bermondsey station.
I think that this could become a popular walking route, as it links up to the path I took from Surrey Quays station, that goes to the still-to-br-built New Bermondsey station and on to Queens Road Peckham station.
It would appear that there is the possibility of opening another path through the arches close to the Millwall Path.
This would probably.
- Give good walking and cycling access between the development between the railway lines of the dive-under and South Bermondsey station.
- Open up more uses for the land between and the buildings under the dive-under.
- Create a direct walking route between the Surrey Quays area and Millwall Football Ground.
I think the whole area could make a very good designer shopping outlet or perhaps a high-technology or design cluster, as there are stations at each of the three corners of the site.
It is certainly a site with possibilities!
Walking Beneath The Dive-Under
I took these pictures, as I walked along the path beside the London Overground between Surrey Quays station and Millwall Football Ground.
The path is crossed by the massive arches and viaducts of the various tracks that form the Bermondsey Dive-Under.
If you look at A Tribute To Victorian Engineering, it shows the structure from a train on the last viaduct I walked under.
I was talking to a lorry driver, who was probably on standby with a powerful road-sweeper, in case the road got covered in mud. He said it was impressive from inside and that it looks like they are creating a lot of small business units.
He also speculated, that there might be cafes and some retail.
But whatever happens, it looks like London is getting an impressive railway structure, to rival some of the best in the world.
Up And Down On The East London Line
My memories if the East London Line don’t go back very far, as I probably only ever used the line once before I moved to Dalston in 2010. I think it must have been around 2000, when I was travelling from Brighton to my youngest son’s house in Bow. I changed trains at New Cross Gate to get to Whitechapel, from where I must have used the Metropolitan Line to Mile End, near to where he lived.
Comfortable and clean it wasn’t! The trains weren’t as bad as the travelling urinals of the North London Line, but the A Stock were forty years old and very tired.
I posted here about the step-free access improvements on the London Overground, so I thought I’d check them out.
The pictures show my route from Dalston Junction to New Cross, from where I walked to New Cross Gate for a train to Crystal Palace. After a refreshment stop at the excellent Brown and Green cafe at the flagship southern terminus of the East London Line, I retraced my steps stopping to look at the improvements at Honor Oak Park and Brockley.
Of the stations south of Surrey Quays on the New Cross and Crystal Palace branches only Sydenham will not be substantially step-free by early next year. At Sydenham though it is effectively two stations, one for each direction, which means with planning, difficult stairs can be avoided.
Several excellent new cafes and coffee stalls, seem to be setting up in the stations.
The future is definitely looking up on the East London Line.
A good start has definitely been made on bringing some of the stations in South London into the twenty-first century.
Lost In Millwall
I usually like going to the New Den to see a football match, as to get from Dalston Junction station to the ground is simple and it is a stadium with good viewing.
I knew that going yesterday wasn’t going to be easy, as South Bermondsey station, which is connected to the ground by a walkway was closed due to engineering works.
So I went the way I usually go, which is to take the Overground to Canada Water station and then get one of the single-decker buses to a stop named Millwall FC.
The bus was full, but the usually-friendly Millwall supporters were not bothering me. Sometimes, I think that their reputation is worse than the reality. But I arrived at the ground, as I intended, a few minutes before kick-off.
It should be said, that London’s talking buses make it easy to find your way in strange parts of London. Other cities should follow the example.
The match was probably Ipswich’s worst display of the season, with the spark of the previous Championship encounter against QPR completely missing. The only positive thing to say, is that Millwall played well enough to stay up, so that should be another easy away game to get to, next season.
After the match, my normal route home via South Bermondsey and London Bridge stations was not on, so I decided to walk to TfL’s recommended alternative of Surrey Quays station.
I got lost, as there were no maps in this part of London. Where I live in Hackney, there are liths and maps all over the place.
So in the end I got to the station by walking in a great circle.
As I suspect the works at South Bermondsey will be going for some time, something needs to be done.
The New Overground Line To Clapham Junction
I took these pictures today, whilst walking from Surrey Quays station to SELCHP.
Note.
- How the track for the new branch, runs between SELCHP and the fence along the route I walked.
- A couple of trains have been seen travelling along the line. One may have passed me, but I’m not sure.
- It would appear that the new bridge over Surrey Canal Road, has been designed to be incorporated into any proposed Surrey Canal Road station. I actually met a guy with his dalmatian by the station and he and/or a neighbour could remember Surrey Canal Road as the Grand Surrey Canal. The neighbour could also remember troop trains going by over the old line, that was dismantled in the 1960s or 1970s.
- The proximity of the New Den to the proposed station.
- The new line has an out of station interchange at Clapham High Street station with Clapham North station on the Northern line. It would make it easy for anybody in my area to get to the Tooting area, although I think that Clapham North station is not the best.
One thing that would appear to be certain, s that opening the line this year, is not an outrageous boast.
New Track for the London Overground
To connect the Overground from the two Peckham stations; Rye and Queen’s Road to Surrey Quays station, a new length of track has to be laid. These pictures show the Peckham end.
As the pictures were taken by a train going towards London Bridge, the new track is very much in the right background
This post shows the junction at the other end, where it joins the southern branches of the East London line.

















































































