High Speed Two Full-Size Trains « The Anonymous Widower

Will High Speed Two Lite Make Stafford An Important Station?

Stafford station is where the Trent Valley Line joins the West Coast Main Line and with the current proposals for High Speed Two, which I refer to as High Speed Two Light, it will also have to handle those High Speed Two services to and from Crewe.

Current Services Through Stafford Station

These are current services through Stafford station.

Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Blackpool North via Birmingham – 2 tpd – Stops at Wolverhampton, Stafford and Crewe
Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Glasgow Central via Birmingham – 5 tpd – Stops at Wolverhampton, Stafford and Crewe
Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Edinburgh via Birmingham – 7 tpd – Stops at Wolverhampton, Stafford and Crewe
Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Blackpool North via Trent Valley – 1 tpd – Stops at Stafford and Crewe
Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Glasgow Central via Trent Valley – 1 tph – Non-Stop
Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Holyhead via Trent Valley – 8 tpd – Stops at Stafford and Crewe
Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street via Trent Valley – 1 tph – Stops at Crewe
Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly via Trent Valley – 1 tph – Stops at Stafford and Crewe
CrossCountry – Birmingham New Street and Manchester via Wolverhampton and Stoke-on-Trent – 2 tph – Stops at Wolverhampton, Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent.
West Midlands – London Euston and Crewe via Trent Valley – 1 tph – Stops at Stafford and Crewe
West Midlands – Birmingham New Street and Crewe via Wolverhampton and Stoke-on-Trent – 1 tph – Stops at Wolverhampton, Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent and Crewe
West Midlands – Birmingham New Street and Liverpool Lime Street via Wolverhampton – 1 tph – Stops at Wolverhampton, Stafford and Crewe

Note.

tpd is trains per day.
tph is trains per hour.
Through Stafford station, there are totals of 23 tpd and 8 tph.
Along the Trent Valley Line, there are totals of 9 tpd and 4 tph.
North of Stafford on the West Coast Main Line, there are totals of 23 tpd and 4 tph.
South of Stafford on the West Coast Main Line, there are totals of 14 tpd and 4 tph.
Between Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent, there are totals of 3 tph.

Stafford is a very busy station.

Services have these frequencies from Stafford.

Crewe – 21 tpd and 3 tph.
Stoke-on-Trent – 3 tph.
London Euston – 23 tpd and 4 tph.
Wolverhampton – 13 tpd and 4 tph.

Could Stoke-on-Trent and Stafford do with a few extra services?

High Speed Two Services Through Stafford Station

This graphic shows High Speed Two services after Phase 2b is completed.

Note.

Services shown in blue are run by High Speed Two Full Size trains.
Services shown in yellow are run by High Speed Two Classic-Compatible trains.
Each of these trains will have a frequency of one tph.

These could be High Speed Two services through Stafford station, when High Speed Two Lite opens.

High Speed Two – London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street/Lancaster via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 1 tph – Stops at Crewe
High Speed Two – London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 1 tph – Stops at Crewe
High Speed Two – London Euston and Macclesfield via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 1 tph – Stops at Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent
High Speed Two – London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 3 tph
High Speed Two – London Euston and Glasgow/Edinburgh via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 2 tph
High Speed Two – Birmingham and Glasgow/Edinburgh via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 1 tph
High Speed Two – Birmingham and Manchester Piccadilly via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 2 tph

Note.

Through Stafford station, there are totals of 11 tph.
Along the Trent Valley Line, there are totals of 11 tph.
North of Stafford on the West Coast Main Line, there are totals of 11 tph.
Between Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent, there are totals of 1 tph.

There are a lot of trains to squeeze through. But remember that High Speed Two signalling is designed to handle 18 tph.

Combined Services Through Stafford Station

These could be the combined current High Speed Two services through Stafford station, when High Speed Two Lite opens.

Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Blackpool North via Birmingham – 2 tpd – Stops at Wolverhampton, Stafford and Crewe
Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Glasgow Central via Birmingham – 5 tpd – Stops at Wolverhampton, Stafford and Crewe
Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Edinburgh via Birmingham – 7 tpd – Stops at Wolverhampton, Stafford and Crewe
Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Blackpool North via Trent Valley – 1 tpd – Stops at Stafford and Crewe
Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Glasgow Central via Trent Valley – 1 tph – Non-Stop
Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Holyhead via Trent Valley – 8 tpd – Stops at Stafford and Crewe
Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street via Trent Valley – 1 tph – Stops at Crewe
Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly via Trent Valley – 1 tph – Stops at Stafford and Crewe
CrossCountry – Birmingham New Street and Manchester via Wolverhampton and Stoke-on-Trent – 2 tph – Stops at Wolverhampton, Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent.
West Midlands – London Euston and Crewe via Trent Valley – 1 tph – Stops at Stafford and Crewe
West Midlands – Birmingham New Street and Crewe via Wolverhampton and Stoke-on-Trent – 1 tph – Stops at Wolverhampton, Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent and Crewe
West Midlands – Birmingham New Street and Liverpool Lime Street via Wolverhampton – 1 tph – Stops at Wolverhampton, Stafford and Crewe
High Speed Two – London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street/Lancaster via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 1 tph – Stops at Crewe
High Speed Two – London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 1 tph – Stops at Crewe
High Speed Two – London Euston and Macclesfield via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 1 tph – Stops at Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent
High Speed Two – London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 3 tph
High Speed Two – London Euston and Glasgow/Edinburgh via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 2 tph
High Speed Two – Birmingham and Glasgow/Edinburgh via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 1 tph
High Speed Two – Birmingham and Manchester Piccadilly via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 2 tph

Note.

Through Stafford station, there are totals of 23 tpd and 19 tph.
Along the Trent Valley Line, there are totals of 9 tpd and 15 tph.
North of Stafford on the West Coast Main Line, there are totals of 23 tpd and 15 tph.
Between Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent, there are totals of 4 tph.

But there are duplicate services.

High Speed Two services to Liverpool, Manchester and Scotland, will replace Avanti West Coast services.

High Speed Two services between Birmingham and Manchester, will replace CrossCountry services.

Removing these current services gives.

Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Blackpool North via Birmingham – 2 tpd – Stops at Wolverhampton, Stafford and Crewe
Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Blackpool North via Trent Valley – 1 tpd – Stops at Stafford and Crewe
Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Holyhead via Trent Valley – 8 tpd – Stops at Stafford and Crewe
West Midlands – London Euston and Crewe via Trent Valley – 1 tph – Stops at Stafford and Crewe
West Midlands – Birmingham New Street and Crewe via Wolverhampton and Stoke-on-Trent – 1 tph – Stops at Wolverhampton, Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent and Crewe
West Midlands – Birmingham New Street and Liverpool Lime Street via Wolverhampton – 1 tph – Stops at Wolverhampton, Stafford and Crewe
High Speed Two – London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street/Lancaster via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 1 tph – Stops at Crewe
High Speed Two – London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 1 tph – Stops at Crewe
High Speed Two – London Euston and Macclesfield via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 1 tph – Stops at Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent
High Speed Two – London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 3 tph
High Speed Two – London Euston and Glasgow/Edinburgh via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 2 tph
High Speed Two – Birmingham and Glasgow/Edinburgh via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 1 tph
High Speed Two – Birmingham and Manchester Piccadilly via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 2 tph

Note.

Through Stafford station, there are totals of 11 tpd and 14 tph.
Along the Trent Valley Line, there are totals of 11 tpd and 12 tph.
North of Stafford on the West Coast Main Line, there are totals of 9 tpd and 12 tph.
South of Stafford on the West Coast Main Line, there are totals of 2 tpd and 2 tph.
Between Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent, there are totals of 2 tph.

With these frequencies, I suspect digital signalling will be needed.

Services have these frequencies from Stafford.

Crewe – 11 tpd and 5 tph.
Stoke-on-Trent – 2 tph.
London Euston – 11 tpd and 4 tph.
Wolverhampton – 3 tpd and 2 tph.

Note.

Stoke-on-Trent needs more trains.
There is virtually no trains on the West Coast Main Line to the South of Stafford.
The frequencies indicate digital signalling will be needed.

On this brief look, I think that High Speed Two Lite will open up a lot of possibilities.

October 7, 2023 Posted by AnonW | Transport/Travel | Avanti West Coast, CrossCountry Trains, Digital Signalling, High Speed Two, High Speed Two Classic-Compatible Trains, High Speed Two Full-Size Trains, High Speed Two Lite, Stafford Station, Stoke-on-Trent Station, Trent Valley Line, West Coast Main Line, West Midlands Trains, Wolverhampton Station | 4 Comments

Could The High Speed Two Link Between Lichfield And Crewe Still Be Built?

The original plan for High Speed Two included two routes between Lichfield and Crewe.

This map clipped from the High Speed Two web site, shows the two routes.

Note.

High Speed Two Phase 2a is shown in blue.
High Speed Two Phase 2b is shown in orange.
Crewe is in the North-West corner of the map, at the Southern end of the orange section.
The junction at Lichfield is in the South-East corner of the map.
The lighter blue route to the East, between the Lichfield junction and Crewe is the proposed new tracks of High Speed Two.
The darker blue route to the West, between the Lichfield junction and Crewe is the existing route of the Trent Valley Line and the West Coast Main Line.
The Trent Valley Line joins the West Coast Main Line at Stafford.

This second map clipped from the High Speed Two web site, shows the junction North of Lichfield, where High Speed Two connects to the Trent Valley Line through Stafford.

Note.

High Speed Two runs North-South across the map.
After the Junction by Fradley South, High Speed Two to Crewe and the North, is the branch to the East.
The other branch connects to the Trent Valley Line at Handsacre junction.
Trent Valley Line can be picked out North of Lichfield, where it passes through Lichfield Trent Valley station.

The Trent Valley Line is no Victorian double-track slow-speed bottleneck.

The route between Rugby and Crewe is generally three or four tracks, with only one short stretch of double track, through Shugborough tunnel.
The speed limit is generally 110 mph, with 90 mph at Shugborough.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see Avanti West Coast’s Class 390 and Class 807 trains could be running at up to 140 mph on the route, if digital signalling were to be installed.
This speed would probably be attained by High Speed Two trains.

London Euston and Stafford would only have under twenty miles of slower line and that could be 140 mph, so High Speed Two times on the route could be very fast.

Trains Between London And Stafford Before And After High Speed Two To Lichfield

Currently, Avanti West Coast trains take around one hour and seventeen minutes between London and Stafford.

The Wikipedia entry for High Speed Two gives these times between London and Stafford.

Fastest time before High Speed Two – one hour and seventeen minutes.
Time after Phase 2a of High Speed Two opens – fifty-five minutes.

Note.

That is a time saving of twenty-two minutes.
High Speed Two Trains will use the link between the junction at Lichfield and the Trent Valley Line.
High Speed Two will also add eighteen trains per hour (tph) to the capacity between London and Lichfield.

This would seem to mean that any trains going to or through Stafford will be twenty-two minutes faster, if they use High Speed Two between London and Lichfield.

Trains Between London And Crewe Before And After High Speed Two To Crewe

Currently, Avanti West Coast trains take around one hour and thirty minutes between London and Crewe.

The Wikipedia entry for High Speed Two gives these times between London and Crewe.

Fastest time before High Speed Two – one hour and thirty minutes.
Time after Phase 2a of High Speed Two opens – fifty-six minutes.

Note.

That is a time saving of thirty-four minutes.
High Speed Two Trains will use the direct line between Lichfield and Crewe.
High Speed Two will also add eighteen tph to the capacity between London and Crewe.

This would seem to mean that any trains going to or through Crewe will be thirty-four minutes faster, if they use High Speed Two between London and Crewe.

High Speed Two Between Lichfield And Crewe Only Saves An Extra Twelve Minutes

It appears that extending High Speed Two to Crewe only saves an extra twelve minutes.

But it will also have these benefits.

High Speed Two Full-Size trains will be able to run to Crewe.

High Speed Two will also add eighteen tph to the capacity between London and Crewe.

Savings From Scrapping High Speed Two Between Lichfield And Crewe

In addition to the savings of the scrapping of the line, I suspect that any modifications to Crewe station will be much simpler.

I wonder how much will be saved by not building High Speed Two to Crewe.

Could The High Speed Two Link Between Lichfield And Crewe Still Be Built?

This is the question I asked in the title.

We know the benefits of building High Speed Two and as time progresses we’ll know the costs and the disruption the building will cause with an increasing accuracy.

I also believe that even High Speed Two Lite will be a rip-roaring success, and other places will want their own High Speed Two service, which will need an increase in capacity North of Lichfield.

So there will come a point, when there is an overwhelming case to build the High Speed Two Link Between Lichfield and Crewe.

Because of that we must make sure, that any sales of land or properties, doesn’t compromise building the High Speed Two Link Between Lichfield and Crewe.

Conclusion

There will come a point, when the amount of traffic, will mean that it is worth building the High Speed Two Link Between Lichfield and Crewe.

My other conclusion is important and the route of the originally proposed High Speed Two Link Between Lichfield and Crewe, must not be compromised.

October 6, 2023 Posted by AnonW | Transport/Travel | Avanti West Coast, Class 390 Train, Class 807 Train, Crewe Station, Handsacre Junction, High Speed Two, High Speed Two Classic-Compatible Trains, High Speed Two Full-Size Trains, High Speed Two Lite, Stafford Station | 1 Comment

Is Six Platforms Enough At Euston For High Speed Two?

In this article in The Times, which is entitled What Is The New HS2 Route? The UK’s High-Speed Rail Network Mapped, this is said.

Sunak said a new six-platform station at Euston would save £6.5 billion compared with HS2’s vision of an 11-platform scheme.

But would it be possible to operate a full service with just six platforms?

This graphic shows High Speed Two services, as proposed by HS2 after Phase 2b opens.

Note.

Services shown in blue are run by High Speed Two Full Size trains.
Services shown in yellow are run by High Speed Two Classic-Compatible trains.
Each service will run once an hour.
There are seventeen services that terminate at Euston in every hour.
Eight are High Speed Two Full Size trains, which are 400 metres long.
Four are single High Speed Two Classic-Compatible trains, which are 200 metres long.
Five are pairs of High Speed Two Classic-Compatible trains, which are 400 metres long.

I have a few thoughts.

The Capacity of High Speed Two

High Speed Two has been designed to have a capacity of eighteen trains per hour (tph).

That means it should be able to handle the seventeen tph to and from Euston.

Six Platforms Would Mean That Each Platform Would Handle Three tph

That is just simple arithmetic.

But could each platform handle three tph?

There are several places in the UK, where a single platform handles three or even four tph.

But these are generally smaller stations handling smaller trains.

I believe that with passenger entry to the platforms from both ends, as there is at King’s Cross, London Bridge and Manchester Piccadilly, that twenty minutes between trains should be possible.

What Happens If It Goes Wrong?

Occasionally trains fail, platforms get blocked or something more serious happens, which in the case of the HS2 Euston station would reduce the number of platforms available to five.

One of these actions could be taken.

Some Trains Can Terminate At Old Oak Common Station

Old Oak Common station is proposed to have six high speed platforms, so four platforms could be used to terminate trains in cases of trouble.

Two Services Run Using Single High Speed Two Classic-Compatible Trains Could Share A Platform

This would work as the platforms are designed to accept a pair of these trains.

Platforms 17 And 18 At The Current Euston Station Could Be Used In An Emergency?

This map from OpenRailwayMap shows the tracks and platforms at Euston station.

Note.

Each red track is an electrified platform, with its number alongside.
Platforms 17 and 18 are on the Western side.
The pink tracks are London Underground lines.
The dotted red and grey track down the Western side is the High Speed Two tracks.

Would it be possible to connect the High Speed Two tracks to Platforms 17 and 18 for use in an emergency?

I think it would be.

Conclusion

I believe that it’s possible to design a six-platform station to handle all the High Speed Two traffic at Euston.

October 6, 2023 Posted by AnonW | Transport/Travel | Euston Station, High Speed Two, High Speed Two Classic-Compatible Trains, High Speed Two Full-Size Trains, High Speed Two Lite, Old Oak Common Station | 5 Comments

High Speed Two To Manchester

There has been a lot of speculation about the Northern end of High Speed Two, so I might as well add sort out a few facts and add a bit of speculation of my own.

The Current Manchester Piccadilly Services

Currently, there are three trains per hour (tph) between London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly.

The services stop as follows.

Milton Keynes Central, Rugby, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield and Stockport
Nuneaton, Stoke-on-Trent and Stockport
Stafford, Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport

Note.

One service goes via Crewe.
Two services go via Stoke-on-Trent.
All services go via Stockport.
A London and Manchester Piccadilly train could go via Milton Keynes Central, Nuneaton, Rugby, Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield and Stockport.
A London and Manchester Piccadilly train could go via Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport.

The two trains detailed would mean that Manchester wouldn’t lose any connectivity.

I would expect that Manchester Piccadilly needs at least three tph to and from London.

This graphic shows High Speed Two services after Phase 2b is completed.

Note.

Services shown in blue are run by High Speed Two Full Size trains.
Services shown in yellow are run by High Speed Two Classic-Compatible trains.
Full Size Services will only run to Manchester Airport and Manchester Piccadilly after Phase 2b is completed to Manchester Piccadilly.
Classic-Compatible Services will be able to run to to Manchester Piccadilly after Phase 2a is completed.
Two London and Manchester Piccadilly trains will call at just Old Oak Common and Manchester Airport.
A third London and Manchester Piccadilly train will call at Old Oak Common, Birmingham International and Manchester Airport.
Two Birmingham Curzon Street and Manchester Piccadilly trains will call at just Manchester Airport.
Despite Wilmslow and Stockport being shown in the list of stations on the left hand side of the graphic, no High Speed Two services appear to call at the two stations.

The graphic of High Speed Two services also shows these Full-Size services to Manchester Piccadilly.

Three tph to London Euston
Two tph to Birmingham Curzon Street

Some or all of these services will surely be run by High Speed Two Classic-Compatible trains.

What services will run to Manchester between the opening of Phase 2a and the opening of Phase 2b?

I will now give some possibilities for services.

London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Crewe, Wilmslow And Stockport

I shall look at the 07:33 train to Manchester Piccadilly on the 20th September 2023.

It was a service via Stafford, Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport
It was a nine-car Class 390 train or Pendolino, which left on time.
Euston and Manchester Piccadilly are 188.9 miles apart.
The train called at Crewe at 09:08 and left at 09:10.
The average speed between London Euston and Crewe is 70.7 mph.
The train arrived in Manchester Piccadilly on time at 09:44.
The journey took two hours and 11 minutes
The average speed was 86.5 mph.
The Crewe and Manchester Piccadilly section is 30.9 miles and the train is scheduled to take 34 minutes.
The average speed between Crewe and Manchester Piccadilly is 54.5 mph.
The example train slows past Crewe because of two stops at Wilmslow and Stockport.

When Phase 2a of High Speed Two opens a replacement for this service via Crewe, could operate as follows.

It could use High Speed Two between and Crewe.
It could use the current route between Crewe and Manchester Piccadilly.
It would probably use a 200 metre long High Speed Two Classic-Compatible trains.
I wouldn’t be surprised, that the current Pendolino service between Euston and Manchester Piccadilly via Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport was retired.
The new High Speed Two service could take over the path currently used by the current Pendolino service, between Crewe and Manchester Piccadilly.
The train could stop at Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport as required.
If it stopped at Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport, it would restore some of the connectivity to smaller places.

According to the Wikipedia entry for High Speed Two, these will be the timings.

London Euston and Crewe – 56 minutes
London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly Phase 2a – One hour and 30 minutes
London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly Phase 2b – One hour and 11 minutes

From these figures and the times of the 07:33, I can deduce these journey times for trains via Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport.

Currently, Crewe and Manchester Piccadilly takes 34 minutes.
High Speed Two after Phase 2a will also take 34 minutes.

I am surprised that sectional timings on this section of the West Coast Main Line are the same as current timings. Digital signalling and the faster acceleration and deceleration of the new trains, are quite likely to decrease times.

Because they are both 34 minutes, does that mean that services will stop at Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport?

London and Macclesfield Via Stafford And Stoke-on-Trent

This map of High Speed Two in North West England was captured from the interactive map on the High Speed Two web site.

Note.

The map dates from around October 2020.
The current West Coast Main Line (WCML) and Phase 2a of High Speed Two are shown in blue.
Phase 2b of High Speed Two is shown in orange.
The main North-South route, which is shown in blue, is the WCML passing through Crewe, Warrington Bank Quay and Wigan North Western as it goes North.
The Western Branch, which is shown in blue, is the Liverpool Branch of the WCML, which serves Runcorn and Liverpool.
High Speed Two, which is shown in orange, takes a faster route between Crewe and Wigan North Western.
The Eastern Branch, which is shown in orange, is the Manchester Branch of High Speed Two, which serves Manchester Airport and Manchester Piccadilly.
The route in the East, which is shown in blue, is the Macclesfield Branch of High Speed Two, which serves Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent and Macclesfield.

The route of Northern Powerhouse Rail between Manchester Airport and Liverpool has still to be finalised.

The London and Macclesfield service is as follows.

There will be one tph
There are intermediate stops at Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent.
Macclesfield has a long electrified bay platform, which looks like it will take a 200 m High Speed Two Classic-Compatible train.
Macclesfield Station And High Speed Two has pictures of the station.
Four tph operate between Stoke-on-Trent and Manchester Piccadilly via Macclesfield.
Timings from London would be 55 minutes to Stafford, 70 minutes to Stoke-on-Trent and 90 minutes to Macclesfield.

In some ways, I was surprised about this High Speed Two service.

But it does give an easy connection to Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent.

London and Manchester Piccadilly via Macclesfield, Stafford And Stoke-on-Trent

Currently, Avanti West Coast run a service between London and Manchester which runs as follows.

It calls at Milton Keynes Central, Rugby, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield and Stockport
It also passes through Watford Junction, Nuneaton, Tamworth and Lichfield Trent Valley.
It could pass through Stafford.
It would mean that Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent were served by 2 tph.
It is run by a Pendolino.
It has a frequency of 1 tph.
The current service takes two hours and 6 minutes.
A few minutes would be added for each extra stop.

I believe it could be a very useful service.

I wonder if it could be run as a complimentary service to High Speed Two to serve more places on the route.

A Second High Speed Two Service Between London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Crewe, Wilmslow And Stockport

So far, I have mapped out three possible services.

High Speed Two – London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Crewe, Wilmslow And Stockport – One hour and thirty minutes
High Speed Two – London and Macclesfield Via Stafford and Stoke – One hour and thirty minutes
Pendolino – London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Milton Keynes Central, Rugby, Nuneaton, Tamworth, Lichfield Trent Valley, Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield and Stockport – Two hours and 6 minutes plus 4 minutes for each extra stop.

I suspect that four tph could be a good frequency.

The simplest extra service would probably be another High Speed Two London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Crewe, Wilmslow And Stockport.

But it could be another Pendolino service to serve more places.

I believe a service pattern could be arranged with these features.

Major cities and towns between London and Manchester have at least two tph.
A larger number of towns and cities have at least one tph.

Note that many stations on the route already have Pendolino services.

Phase 2b Would Be The Ultimate Solution

Phase 2b which will involve a tunnel via Manchester Airport to new platforms in Manchester Piccadilly could be the ultimate solution.

Phase 2b is also needed so that full-size High Speed Two trains can be run to Manchester Piccadilly.

But it will be difficult, expensive and disruptive to build.

Conclusion

I believe it could be easy to plan four services between London and Manchester Piccadilly or Macclesfield.

High Speed Two Full-Size train – London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Crewe, Wilmslow And Stockport – One hour and eleven minutes
High Speed Two Classic-Compatible train – London and Macclesfield Via Stafford and Stoke – One hour and thirty minutes
High Speed Two Full-Size train – London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Crewe, Wilmslow And Stockport – One hour and eleven minutes
Pendolino – London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Milton Keynes Central, Rugby, Nuneaton, Tamworth, Lichfield Trent Valley, Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield and Stockport – Two hours and 6 minutes plus 4 minutes for each extra stop.

Note.

Services 1 and 3 are identical, but don’t need to be.

Service 4 could be run by a High Speed Two Classic-Compatible train.

High Speed Two To Crewe

High Speed Two To Holyhead

High Speed Two To Lancaster

High Speed Two To Liverpool

High Speed Two To Stoke-on-Trent

High Speed Two To Wigan

September 24, 2023 Posted by AnonW | Transport/Travel | Avanti West Coast, Class 390 Train, CrossCountry Trains, High Speed Two, High Speed Two Classic-Compatible Trains, High Speed Two Full-Size Trains, High Speed Two Lite, Macclesfield Station, Manchester Piccadilly Station, Stafford Station, Stoke-on-Trent Station | 10 Comments

Thoughts On High Speed Two

These are a few thoughts about High Speed Two, after the reports of major changes today.

This article on the BBC is entitled HS2 Line Between Birmingham And Crewe Delayed By Two Years.

This is the sub-heading.

The Birmingham to Crewe leg of high speed railway HS2 will be delayed by two years to cut costs.

These are the three opening paragraphs.

Some of the design teams working on the Euston end of the line are also understood to be affected.

Transport secretary Mark Harper blamed soaring prices and said it was “committed” to the line linking London, the Midlands and North of England.

HS2 has been beset by delays and cost rises. In 2010, it was expected to cost £33bn but is now expected to be £71bn.

Delivering The Benefits Of High Speed Two Early

It is my belief that with a large project taking a decade or more , it is not a bad idea to deliver some worthwhile benefits early on.

The Elizabeth Line opened in stages.

The new Class 345 trains started replacing scrapyard specials in 2017.
The rebuilt Abbey Wood station opened in 2017.
Paddington local services were transferred to the Elizabeth Line in 2019.
Outer stations reopened regularly after refurbishment from 2018.
The through line opened in May 2022.

There’s still more to come.

Some projects wait until everything is ready and everybody gets fed up and annoyed.

Are there any parts of High Speed Two, that could be completed early, so that existing services will benefit?

In 2020, the refurbishment of Liverpool Lime Street station and the tracks leading to the station was completed and I wrote about the station in It’s A Privilege To Work Here!, where this was my conclusion.

Wikipedia says this about Liverpool Lime Street station.

Opened in August 1836, it is the oldest still-operating grand terminus mainline station in the world.

I’ve used Lime Street station for fifty-five years and finally, it is the station, the city needs and deserves.

I’ve been to grand termini all over the world and Lime Street may be the oldest, but now it is one of the best.

Are there any stations, that will be served by High Speed Two, that should be upgraded as soon as possible to give early benefits to passengers, staff and operators?

Avanti West Cost have solved the problem of the short platforms at Liverpool South Parkway station, by ordering shorter Class 807 trains. Will High Speed Two lengthen the platforms at this station?

A good project manager will need to get all the smaller sub-projects in a row and work out what is the best time to do each.

Digital Signalling

I would assume, as this will be needed for High Speed Two services in the West Coast Main Line to the North of Crewe, this is surely a must for installing as early as possible.

If the existing trains could run for a hundred miles at 140 mph, rather than the current 125 mph, that would save five worthwhile minutes.

Trains could run closer together and there is the possibility of organising services in flights, where a number of trains run together a safe number of minutes apart.

Remove Bottlenecks On Classic Lines, That Could Be Used By High Speed Two

I don’t know the bottlenecks on the West Coast Main Line, but there are two on the East Coast Main Line, that I have talked about in the past.

Could ERTMS And ETCS Solve The Newark Crossing Problem?

Improving The North Throat Of York Station Including Skelton Bridge Junction

Hopefully, the digital signalling will solve them.

Any bottlenecks on lines that will be part of High Speed Two, should be upgraded as soon as possible.

Birmingham And Crewe

I will start by looking at the leg between Birmingham and Crewe.

This section of the HS2 map shows High Speed Two between Birmingham and Lichfield.

Note.

The blue circle on the left at the bottom of the map is Birmingham Curzon Street station.
The blue circle on the right at the bottom of the map is Birmingham Interchange station.
The High Speed Two to and from London passes through Birmingham Interchange station.
The branch to Birmingham Curzon Street station connects to the main High Speed Two at a triangular junction.
North of the triangular junction, High Speed Two splits.
The Eastern branch goes to East Midlands Parkway station.
The Northern branch goes to Crewe, Liverpool Lime Street, Manchester Piccadilly, Preston and Scotland.

At the top of the map, the Northern branch splits and lines are shown on this map.

Note.

The junction where the Northern and Eastern branches divide is in the South-East corner of the map.
To the North of Lichfield, the route divides again.
The Northern purple line is the direct line to Crewe.
The shorter Southern branch is a spur that connects High Speed Two to the Trent Valley Line, which is the current route taken by trains between London Euston and Crewe, Liverpool Lime Street, Manchester Piccadilly, Preston and Scotland.
Crewe station is in the North-West corner of the map.

The route between the junction to the North of Lichfield and Crewe is essentially two double-track railways.

High Speed Two with a routine operating speed of 205 mph.
The Trent Valley Line with a routine operating speed of 140 mph.
High Speed Two Classic-Compatible trains can run on all tracks.
High Speed Two Full-Size trains may be able to run on the Trent Valley Line at reduced speed.
Eighteen trains per hour (tph) is the maximum frequency of High Speed Two.

I feel in an emergency, trains will be able to use the other route.

Will This Track Layout Allow An Innovative Build?

Suppose the link to the Trent Valley Line was built first, so that High Speed Two trains from London for Crewe, Liverpool Lime Street, Manchester Piccadilly, Preston and Scotland, could transfer to the Trent Valley Line as they do now.

All lines used by High Speed Two services North of the junction, where High Speed Two joins the Trent Valley Line would be updated with digital signalling and 140 mph running. This will benefit current services on the line. For instance Euston and Liverpool/Manchester services could be under two hours.
The current services would be replaced by High Speed Two services run by High Speed Two Classic-Compatible trains.
The direct High Speed Two route between Lichfield and Crewe would now be built.
When this section of High Speed Two is complete, High Speed Two services would use it between Lichfield and Crewe.
As the direct route would be built later, this would delay the building of the Birmingham and Crewe high-speed route.

Currently, trains run the 41.8 miles between Lichfield and Crewe in 28 minutes, which is an average speed of 89.6 mph.

I can build a table of average speeds and times for Lichfield and Crewe.

100 mph – 25.1 minutes – 2.9 minutes saving
110 mph – 22.8 minutes – 5.2 minutes saving
120 mph – 20.9 minutes – 7.1 minutes saving
125 mph – 20.1 minutes – 7.9 minutes saving
130 mph – 19.3 minutes – 8.7 minutes saving
140 mph – 17.9 minutes – 10.1 minutes saving
160 mph – 15.7 minutes – 12.3 minutes saving
180 mph – 13.9 minutes – 14.1 minutes saving
200 mph – 12.5 minutes – 15.5 minutes saving

Note.

Even a slight increase in average speed creates several minutes saving.
Times apply for both routes.

I believe that a 125 mph average should be possible on the Trent Valley route, which may be enough for Euston and Liverpool/Manchester services to be under two hours.

Improving Classic Lines Used By High Speed Two North Of Lichfield

Real Time Trains shows these figures for a Glasgow Central to Euston service.

Glasgow and Lichfield Trent Valley is 298.2 miles.
Glasgow and Lichfield Trent Valley takes five hours.

This is an average speed of 59.6 mph.

Note.

The average speed is low considering the trains are capable of cruising at 125 mph and 140 mph with digital signalling.
High Speed Two services between Euston and Glasgow will use the classic network, to the North of Lichfield.

I can build a table of average speeds and times for Glasgow and Lichfield.

100 mph – 179 minutes – 121 minutes saving
110 mph – 163 minutes – 157 minutes saving
120 mph – 149 minutes – 151 minutes saving
125 mph – 143 minutes – 157 minutes saving
130 mph – 138 minutes – 162 minutes saving
140 mph – 128 minutes – 172 minutes saving

This table illustrates why it is important to improve all or as many as possible of classic lines used by High Speed Two to enable 140 mph running, with full digital signalling. Obviously, if 140 mph is not feasible, the speed should be increased to the highest possible.

Routes that could be updated include.

London Euston and Glasgow Central
London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street
London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly (all routes)
London Euston and Blackpool
London Euston and Holyhead
London Euston and Shrewsbury

Not all these routes will be served by High Speed Two, but they could be served by 140 mph trains.

What Times Would Be Possible?

The InterCity 225 was British Rail’s ultimate electric train and these two paragraphs from its Wikipedia entry, describe its performance.

The InterCity 225 was designed to achieve a peak service speed of 140 mph (225 km/h); during a test run in 1989 on Stoke Bank between Peterborough and Grantham, an InterCity 225 was recorded at a speed of 162 mph (260.7 km/h). Its high speed capabilities were again demonstrated via a 3hr 29mins non-stop run between London and Edinburgh on 26 September 1991. British regulations have since required in-cab signalling on any train running at speeds above 125 mph (201 km/h) preventing such speeds from being legally attained in regular service. Thus, except on High Speed 1, which is equipped with cab signalling, British signalling does not allow any train, including the InterCity 225, to exceed 125 mph (201 km/h) in regular service, due to the impracticality of correctly observing lineside signals at high speed.

The InterCity 225 has also operated on the West Coast Main Line (WCML). In April 1992, one trainset achieved a new speed record of two hours, eight minutes between Manchester and London Euston, shaving 11 minutes off the 1966 record. During 1993, trials were operated to Liverpool and Manchester in connection with the InterCity 250 project.

The fastest London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly services appear to be two hours and six minutes tomorrow, with stops at Nuneaton and Stoke-on-Trent.
The fastest London King’s Cross and Edinburgh service is four hours seventeen minutes tomorrow.

It does appear that British Rail’s 1980s-vintage InterCity 225 train did very well.

Trains that would be able to run at 140 mph with updated signalling include.

Alstom Class 390
Hitachi Class 800, 801, 802, 803, 805, 807 and 810
British Rail InterCity 225
High Speed Two Classic-Compatible.

All are electric trains.

Could High Speed Two, West Coast Main Line and East Coast Main Line Services Be Run By High Speed Two Classic-Compatible Trains?

I don’t see why not!

They would be able to use short stretches of High Speed Line like Lichfield and Crewe.
LNER and CrossCountry could also use the trains.
High Speed Two is providing the framework and it’s there to be used, provided the paths are available.

This graphic shows the preliminary schedule.

It only shows ten trains going through Crewe, so there could be up to eight spare high speed paths between Birmingham and Crewe.

Could High Speed Two Classic-Compatible Trains Be Used To Advantage On The East Coast Main Line?

I published this extract from the Wikipedia entry for the InterCity 225 earlier.

The InterCity 225 was designed to achieve a peak service speed of 140 mph (225 km/h); during a test run in 1989 on Stoke Bank between Peterborough and Grantham, an InterCity 225 was recorded at a speed of 162 mph (260.7 km/h). Its high speed capabilities were again demonstrated via a 3hr 29mins non-stop run between London and Edinburgh on 26 September 1991.

The London and Edinburgh run was at an average speed of around 112 mph.

I wonder what time, one of LNER’s Class 801 trains, that are all-electric could do, once the new digital signalling has been fully installed on the route? I suspect it would be close to three hours, but it would depend on how long the trains could run at 140 mph.

It should be noted that the Selby Diversion was designed for 160 mph, when it was built by British Rail in the 1980s.

In Are Short Lengths Of High Speed Line A Good Idea?, I look at the mathematics of putting in short lengths of new railway, which have higher speeds, where this was part of my conclusion.

I very much feel there is scope to create some new high speed sections on the current UK network, with only building very little outside of the current land used by the network.

I would love to know what some of Network Rail’s track experts feel is the fastest time possible between London and Edinburgh that can be achieved, by selective upgrading of the route.

If some of the trains were High Speed Two Classic-Compatible Trains, with a top speed of 205 mph, provided the track allowed it, there could be some interesting mathematics balancing the costs of track upgrades, new trains with what passengers and operators need in terms of journey times.

Could High Speed Two Classic-Compatible Trains Be Used To Advantage On The West Coast Main Line?

Much of what I said about the East Coast Main Line would apply to the West Coast Main Line.

But in addition, the West Coast Main Line will be a superb place to test the new High Speed Two Classic-Compatible Trains.

I believe, that before High Speed Two opens, we’ll see High Speed Two Classic-Compatible Trains, carrying passengers between Euston and Avanti West Coast’s destinations.

Could High Speed Two Be Split Into Two?

Consider.

Under earlier plans, the East Coast Main Line to the North of York, will be used by High Speed Two.
With digital signalling the East Coast Main Line will support continuous running at 140 mph for long sections of the route.
The East Coast Main Line has a recently-rebuilt large Southern terminal at King’s Cross with eleven platforms and good suburban services and excellent connections to the London Underground.
The East Coast Main Line has a very large Northern terminal at Edinburgh Waverley with twenty platforms and good local train connections.
There are large intermediate stations on the East Coast Main Line at Doncaster, Leeds, Newcastle, Peterborough and York. All these stations have good local train connections.
The East Coast Main Line has important branches to Cambridge, Harrogate, Huddersfield, Hull King’s Lynn, Lincoln, Middlesbrough, Nottingham, Scarborough, Sheffield, Skegness and Sunderland.

We are talking about an asset, that needs improving rather than sidelining.

Could High Speed Two Be A One-Nation Project?

Over three years ago, I wrote Could High Speed Two Be A One-Nation Project? and tried to answer the question in the title.

But now the core network is better defined, perhaps it is time to look at extending the High Speed network again.

The next few sections look at possible extensions.

Serving Chester And North Wales

I looked at this in Could High Speed Two Trains Serve Chester And North Wales?, which I have updated recently.

This was my conclusion.

It looks to me, that when High Speed Two, think about adding extra destinations, Chester and Holyhead could be on the list.

I also suspect that even without electrification and High Speed Two services, but with the new Class 805 trains, the route could be a valuable one for Avanti West Coast.

These are current and promised times for the two legs to Holyhead.

Euston and Crewe – 90 minutes – Fastest Class 390 train
Euston and Crewe – 55 minutes – High Speed Two Classic-Compatible train from Wikipedia
Crewe and Holyhead – 131 minutes – Fastest Class 221 train
Crewe and Holyhead – 70 minutes – 90 mph average speed
Crewe and Holyhead – 63 minutes – 100 mph average speed
Crewe and Holyhead – 57 minutes – 110 mph average speed
Crewe and Holyhead – 53 minutes – 120 mph average speed
Crewe and Holyhead – 45 minutes – 140 mph average speed

Note.

I have assumed that Crewe and Holyhead is 105.5 miles.
The operating speed of the North Wales Coast Line is 90 mph.
In the following estimates, I have assumed a change of train at Crewe, takes 6 minutes.

I think there are several options to run fast services to Chester and North Wales.

Pre-HS2 – Class 805 all the way