Train Lengths Between King’s Cross and Edinburgh
If you ask Google, what is the platform length at King’s Cross station, you get the following answers.
- Platform 0 – 305 metres
- Platform 1 – 304 metres
- Platform 2 – 285 metres
- Platform 3 – 289 metres
- Platform 4 – 290 metres
- Platform 5 – 270 metres
- Platform 6 – 288 metres
- Platform 7 – 288 metres
- Platform 8 – 289 metres
- Platform 9 – 276 metres
- Platform 10 – 276 metres
This OpenRailwayMap shows the tracks linking to the eleven platforms at King’s Cross.
Note.
- The red tracks are the electrified platforms in King’s Cross.
- The two pink tracks are the Piccadilly Line underneath the station.
- Platform 0 is on the right and Platform 10 is on the left.
- The platform number is shown alongside the track.
Platform 0 is the newest platform, which opened in 2010 and also the longest at 305 metres.
Many of the trains using the station are Hitachi Class 800, 801, 802 and 803 trains, which have cars of the following lengths.
- Driving car – 25.85 metres
- Intermediate car – 26 metres
These lengths mean that individual trains have the following lengths.
- Five-car – 129.7 metres
- Nine-car – 233.7 metres
- Ten-car – Pair of five-cars – 259.4 metres
Note.
- It would appear that nine- and ten-car trains can use all platforms 0-8 in the main station.
- Platform 5 may be short at 270 metres, but Real Time Trains shows it can handle nine- and ten-car trains.
Real Time Trains doesn’t seem to show any nine- and ten-car trains using Platforms 9 and 10. Is the approach just a bit tight?
These are some further thoughts.
LNER’s New Class 897 Trains
I asked Google how long will be LNER’s new ten-car Class 897 trains. This is the answer I received.
The Class 897 train will be 218.7 meters (717 ft 6 in) long, according to Wikipedia. These trains will be ten-car units.
Have these trains been designed, so they can fit in Platforms 9 and 10 at King’s Cross and other shorter platforms, that LNER serve?
Other train classes, that could use Platforms 9 and 10 at King’s Cross include.
- Five-car Class 800, 801, 802 and 803 trains – 129.7 metres
- Five-car Class 180 trains – 116.52 metres
- Five-car Class 222 trains – 116.16 metres
- Six-car Class 717 trains – 121.7 metres
- Eight-car Class 379/387 trains – 163.12 metres
- Eight-car Class 700/0 trains – 162 metres
- Twelve-car Class 700/1 trains – 242.6 metres
Real Time Trains or my eyes have observed all these trains, except for the twelve-car Class 700 trains in Platforms 9 and 10 at King’s Cross.
It does appear that the shorter ten-car Class 897 trains improve utilisation of the platforms at King’s Cross station.
Could Twelve-Car Class 800, 801, 802 and 803 Trains Run Into King’s Cross?
Consider.
- LNER and Lumo have both said, they want to win passengers from the airlines on Anglo-Scottish routes.
- Extra paths on the East Coast Main Line are at a premium and hard to come by.
In Do Class 800/801/802 Trains Use Batteries For Regenerative Braking?, I found this extract in a Hitachi document on their web site.
To simplify the rearrangement and management of train configurations, functions are provided for identifying the train (Class 800/801), for automatically determining the cars in the trainset and its total length, and for coupling and uncoupling up to 12 cars in
normal and 24 cars in rescue or emergency mode.
So if say LNER or Lumo wanted a twelve-car train, it would be possible. It also looks like one twelve-car train can rescue another.
Train lengths would be as follows.
- Five-car Class 800, 801, 802 and 803 trains – 129.7 metres
- Six-car Class 800, 801, 802 and 803 trains – 155.7 metres
- Nine-car Class 800, 801, 802 and 803 trains – 233.7 metres
- Twelve-car Class 800, 801, 802 and 803 trains – 311.7 metres
- Twelve-car – Pair of six-car Class 800, 801, 802 and 803 trains – 311.4 metres
As Platform 0 is 305 metres and Platform 1 is 304 metres, I suspect that King’s Cross station could accept twelve-car formations of Hitachi Class 800, 801, 802 or 803 trains, with fairly minor modifications.
But what about other stations?
Berwick-on-Tweed
Both platforms are around 233/234 metres, so twelve-car trains couldn’t call, unless the platforms were lengthened.
Bradford Forster Square
From the pictures, that I took in Bradford Forster Square Station – 20th May 2025, of a pair of LNER five-car trains, I suspect that the new Platform 0 and the extended Platform 1 will accept twelve-car trains, or could easily be modified.
Darlington
Both platforms, where LNER call are over 350 metres long, so Darlington can handle twelve-car trains.
Doncaster
Doncaster has four long platforms and I am fairly sure, the station could be easily modified to handle twelve-car trains.
Durham
Both platforms are over 260 metres, so twelve-car trains couldn’t call, unless the platforms were substantially lengthened.
Edinburgh Waverley
Platform 5 and 6 at Edinburgh Waverley station were both lengthened to 275 metres to accept ten-car LNER trains in 2016. I suspect more lengthening will be needed.
Leeds
Platforms 8 and 11 at Leeds station are both over 320 metres, so should be long enough to accept twelve car LNER trains.
Newark Northgate
Platforms 1 and 2 at Newark Northgate station are only 133 metres. Some platform lengthening would be needed for twelve-car trains to be able to call.
Newcastle
Platforms 2, 3 and 4 at Newcastle station are 362, 304 and 268 metres respectively. I believe with small improvements, that the station could be easily modified to handle twelve-car trains.
Northallerton
Both platforms are around 261/270 metres, so twelve-car trains couldn’t call, unless the platforms were lengthened.
Peterborough
Platforms 3, 4 and 5 at Peterborough station are only 265 metres. Some platform lengthening would be needed for twelve-car trains to be able to stop.
Wakefield Westgate
Both platforms at Wakefield Westgate station are only 255 metres. Some platform lengthening would be needed for twelve-car trains to be able to stop.
York
Four platforms at York station are over 315 metres.
Could A Twelve-Car Class 800, 801, 802 and 803 Trains Run Between King’s Cross And Edinburgh?
This would surely be the ultimate competition for the airlines.
Consider.
- It would use a single twelve-car Hitachi train or a pair of six-car trains.
- It could be fitted with batteries, so it could use the Great Northern and Great Eastern Joint Line diversion, through Lincoln, when there is engineering works or overhead wiring troubles.
- It would use either Platform 0 or Platform 1 at King’s Cross.
- It would use a lengthened platform at Edinburgh.
- Peterborough, Doncaster, York, Darlington and Newcastle could be possible stops.
- I estimate an LNER layout would carry 696 Standard Class and 86 First Class passengers.
- I estimate that a Lumo layout would carry 965 Standard Class passengers.
Note that an Airbus A321neo single-aislr airliner can carry 244 passengers.
Taking Pictures In Doncaster And Cleethorpes Today
My faith was restored a bit in UK railways today.
I had to go to Cleethorpes at the last minute to take some pictures for this blog.
I went with a change at Doncaster each way.
- I bought the single ticket to Doncaster from a person in King’s Cross for £28.55 on LNER.
- I bought the return ticket to Cleethorpes from a person in Doncaster for £20.55 on TransPennine Express.
- I bought the single ticket to King’s Cross from a person in Doncaster for £15.30 on Hull Trains.
I bought all tickets with my railcard on a walk up basis.
All four trains were on time.
The only problem was the weather in Cleethorpes and the pictures could have been better.
Flytipping At King’s Cross Station
To Emphasise the problems of fly-tipping on the railway, they were showing an art installation at King’s Cross station.
It’s an idea, but will it stop fly-fipping on the eailway?
Newcastle Fans Had Few Trains To London
Yesterday, I felt LNER and Lumo would be cashing in, with Newcastle United playing at Wembley.
The finalists were settled on the 6th of February, so that surely gave Network Rail time to reorganise any engineering works so that LNER and Lumo could be running the maximum number of Newcastle United supporters to London.
Lumo didn’t run at all to London on the Sunday and all LNER trains went via the Stadium of Light.
I would have thought, that Network Rail’s inflexibility cost LNER and Lumo a good publicity opportunity.
New Cut-Price Sheffield to London King’s Cross Train Service A Step Closer After Breakthrough
The title of this post, is the same as that of a story on The Star.
This is the sub-heading.
A new cut-price Sheffield to London train service has moved a step closer after a significant breakthrough.
These two paragraphs add detail to the story.
Hull Trains, which is part of FirstGroup, wants to launch a twice-daily return service between Sheffield and London King’s Cross, via Woodhouse, Worksop and Retford.
It says fares would be up to 30 per cent cheaper and the new route would provide more choice for passengers, especially for students and other people on a tighter budget.
I would assume the breakthrough is that the new East Coast Main Line timetable has been agreed.
The article confirms this.
The new East Coast Mainline timetable coming into operation later this year has been confirmed by Network Rail, making it easier to see how the new Sheffield-London trains would fit in around existing services.
Ever since I saw this proposed service, I wondered if by judicious splitting and joining at Retford, the Hull Trains services would effectively be only one ten car train on the East Coast Main Line.
Is Internet Security Sometimes Over Secure?
On Friday the 13th December, I received a Purchase Confirmation from eBay by e-mail.
As I get lots of spam e-mails, I decided it was just the usual spam and ignored it.
But then I got thinking.
- I have never bought anything on eBay.
- I sold a lot of surplus things, when I last moved house on eBay and was very satisfied with their service.
- The purchase was for a watch and I don’t wear one.
- It was also an Apple watch and as the company has given me so much grief on their non-standard co9mputer and file formats , when I was a programmer, I never buy or use any Apple products.
- It was also for £650, which is never the sort of sum, I ever would pay for a watch.
So I did all the safety checks on my bank accounts and credit cards and found everything was as it should be.
On the Purchase Confirmation from eBay is a 0204 phone number offering help . So I rang it on the Saturday.
My call was answered by a male operator with a slight accent, but speaking good English.
- After I gave him the Order ID, he said that eBay had closed my account because of inactivity.
- I have since found an e-mail from eBay saying they were closing my account and I remember answering it, but as I felt I didn’t need the account, I took no action.
- The operator, then said that someone had reactivated the account and told me that this needed documents like Council Tax to prove I lived at the house.
- He then asked if anybody lived with me. I told him no, as I’m a widower in perhaps a rather curt manner, as I don’t like being accused of a crime.
- I then realised that this was an inside job, from my experience of working with police forces, banks and consultants in stopping crime.
- I told him my thoughts in a quiet way.
He then said he’d close the account and the conversation ended.
On the Monday, I decided I wanted to go to see the new Northumberland Line on the Wednesday.
- So I decided to book online using Lumo to Newcastle.
- Before entering your bank/credit card number, Lumo ask for your name and address.
- I didn’t get past the name and address entry, probably because, I suspect eBay had put my name and address on a black-list!
In the end, I bought my tickets at the King’s Cross station ticket office using a credit card. At least they were the same as the on-line price.
It was a good trip and I wrote about it in London And Newcastle In A Day By Lumo and My First Trip On The Northumberland Line – 18th December 2024.
Conclusion
I have phoned Lumo, most of my banks and credit cards, Action Fraud, the BBC, the police and I still can’t find out how I get myself off this accursed black-list.
The only good thing, is that I have not had ay money taken out of my bank account.
I have also reported the fraud to the Metropolitan Police and got a crime number for it.
London And Newcastle In A Day By Lumo
On Monday, the weather for yesterday in the North-East seemed set fair, I was able to get tickets on Lumo both ways for a reasonable price and the new Northumberland Line had opened.
So I decided to go for it.
My outward journey was on the 10:45 and the return was on the 17:52, which gave me more than enough time to take a train to Ashington and back.
I took these pictures as I arrived in and changed cmy trains at Newcastle.
Note.
- The weather in Geordieland was gorgeous.
- Is there another station in the UK, with an approach with such a large number of bridges over a large river.
- I took the bridge pictures from the lobby of the train.
- The blue railway bridge is on the East side of the train.
- The modern road bridge is on the West side of the train.
- In The Bridges of Newcastle, there are more pictures of Newcastles’s bridges.
- To change trains, I had to cross from one side of the station to the other on a stiff bridge without lifts.
- The Northumberland Line trains run every thirty minutes.
These are some further thoughts on Newcastle station, which I will write later.
Timings Going North
The train left Kings Cross at 10:45½, which was just thirty seconds late.
It arrived in Newcastle at 13:48, which was four minutes late.
The journey time had been three hours and two and a half minutes.
Timings Going South
The train left Newcastle at 17:52, which was on time.
It arrived in Kings Cross at 21:17, which was thirty-three minutes late.
The thirty-three minute delay, must raise the possibility of delay repay.
It does!
Three Hours London Newcastle?
These timings must raise the possibility of a sub-three hour time. on the train, between London King’s Cross and Newcastle stations.
The digital signalling that is currently being installed, with perhaps a few timetable tweaks should do it for both Lumo and LNER.
Could The Trains Absorb The Airline Passengers?
Consider.
- In 2023, 437,735 passengers flew between London Heathrow and Newcastle airports.
- This is just 1,200 passengers per day.
- A five-car Class 803 train has 403 seats.
It would appear that a few extra trains and some targeted marketing, could convert London and Newcastle into an all-electric train route.
Seats
Train seats are a bone of contention to many rail passengers these days.
I first rode on Lumo to Scotland in 2021 and wrote about it in London To Edinburgh On Lumo, where I was fairly complimentary about the seats.
They certainly are better than some train seats I have ridden in.
Am I Tired Today?
Not particularly! But I wasn’t very energetic during my four hours in the North.
Tickets For Onward Journeys
The main purpose of my trip was to ride the Northumberland Line to Ashington.
I made the mistake of not buying my ticket for the second train in London, as I hadn’t realised that my train from London and the Ashington train used different sides of the station.
- It was a stiff walk for me between trains.
- In order to buy a ticket, you need to pass through the barriers twice to get to the ticket office or a machine.
- There was no ticket facilities on the far side of the station, where the Lumo train arrived.
- The ticket machines didn’t accept contactless cards.
- Information was lacking.
The outcome was that I nearly missed my train to Ashington.
So to be sure of catching your connection, if you are changing trains at Newcastle, make sure you buy your tickets before you leave your first station.
Matchday Travel Made Easy With Lumo
The title of this post, is the same as that as this new item from Gateshead FC.
These three paragraphs outline the partnership between Lumo and Gateshead FC.
Lumo, our official rail partner, continues to offer Gateshead fans the perfect means for travelling to London and back on away days.
Operating exclusively electric trains, Lumo’s fleet run at times convenient for football matches, allowing fans to travel to London from Newcastle train station in just under 3 hours and vice versa. Lumo is committed to delivering sustainable travel without compromising on comfort, convenience, or cost.
Discover the tips and offers from Lumo below to make planning your next trip to t Capital easier, more affordable, and completely hassle-free.
Two tips and offers are listed.
- Plan Ahead – Tickets Available Until Spring 2025.
- Stay Flexible With LumoFlex
I have a few thoughts and observations.
Lumo Is Faster Than AI
According to the September 2024 Edition of Modern Railways, Lumo holds the record of two hours and 33 minutes from King’s Cross to Newcastle.
- Google’s AI-enhanced search engine gives three minutes longer.
- Looks like a stupid computer to me.
If Lumo could keep their record pace going to Edinburgh, they’d be in the Scottish Capital in three hours 43 minutes after leaving King’s Cross.
There Are Eleven Teams In The Same Division Of The National League As Gateshead, That Can Be Reached Easily From London
The teams are.
- Aldershot Town – Train from Waterloo
- Barnet – Underground and Bus
- Braintree – Train from Liverpool Street
- Dagenham & Redbridge – Underground and Bus
- Eastleigh – Train from Waterloo
- Ebbsfleet United – Thameslink
- Maidenhead – Elizabeth Line
- Southend United – Train from Liverpool Street
- Sutton United – Thameslink
- Wealdstone – Underground
- Woking – Train from Waterloo
Note.
- Maidenhead and Sutton United are probably the easiest.
- Woking could be the most difficult.
- Thameslink and the Elizabeth Line are useful.
If Lumo bring a train-full of passengers to London, that is 400 passengers per train at £18 each way, if all supporters get the best price.
So each train could produce £14,400, if it was full. If Lumo can run ten-car instead of five-car trains, that doubles the revenue to £28,800.
I think Lumo see this as a nice little earner and they are going for it.
Conclusion
Train companies could support fans a lot better than they do.
‘UK-First’ Intercity Battery Trial Exceeds Expectations
The title of this post, is the same as that of this press release from Hitachi.
These three bullet points, act as sub-headings.
- Intercity battery train completes testing in the north of England, demonstrating superior performance and cost-effectiveness compared to diesel engines.
- Trial confirms single battery technology can reduce fuels costs between 35%-50% and enter and leave stations in zero-emission mode.
- Ahead of Railway 200 celebration, this new UK rail innovation is ready to reduce cost and emissions on the railways.
These are the first two paragraphs.
Today, Angel Trains, Hitachi Rail and TransPennine Express are celebrating the successful completion of the UK’s first intercity battery trial in the North of England.
The powerful 700kw battery technology met, and in some cases even surpassed, the key objectives of the trial, including:
- Fuel costs savings between 35%-50%, surpassing previous predictions of up to 30%.
- Just one battery has managed to power the train to speeds greater than 75mph, clearly demonstrating this technology can enter, alight and exit stations solely in zero-emission battery-mode to improve air quality and reduce noise pollution.
- Able to achieve all journey times and performance requirements so can meet operators timetable requirements.
- The battery matches the weight of a diesel engine and is installed in the same undercarriage space, ensuring no risk of track degradation and no impact on the passenger environment.
Note.
- I would expect, that most of the fuel cost savings are due to the use of regenerative braking to the battery.
- 75 mph might seem slow, but Hull Trains average slower speeds than this on their diesel sections.
- Running in a non-polluting mode in stations and sensitive areas, is not going to be disliked by anyone.
- The most powerful diesel engines in Class 800 and Class 802 trains are rated at 700 kW. So with the same weight and power, it is not surprising that the performance is the same.
It looks to me, that Hitachi have designed an efficient battery-electric electric train, that can extend services from electrified main lines onto branch lines without electrification.
The One Battery Test Train And Hull Trains
Hull Trains currently run one service to Hull and Beverley and have applied for another service to serve Worksop, Woodhouse and Sheffield, where the trains would leave the East Coast Main Line at Retford.
Hitachi’s current test train has two diesel engines and one battery pack.
An Electric Service Between London and Hull/Beverley
Distances for the Hull and Beverley service are.
- ECML and Hull – 58.1 km. – 3 stops
- Hull and Beverley – 13.2 km or 26.4 km both ways. – 1 stop
Note.
- Trains will be fully-charged, when they leave the ECML.
- Trains could be fully-charged, when they leave Hull station, if the platform they use has a charging system.
- All Hull Trains call in Platform 7 at Hull station.
- The Hitachi press release said “During a trial run, the battery’s impressive power enabled the train to operate solely in battery mode for 70km.” A speed of 75 mph is indicated.
- I would assume the Hitachi train used regenerative braking to help recharge the batteries, at the intermediate stops.
- Trains average around 57 mph between the ECML and Hull and 38 mph between Hull and Beverley.
- Much of the track between the ECML and Hull has a speed limit of 75 mph.
- Much of the track between Beverley and Hull has a speed limit of 70 mph or less.
Because of these figures and what Hitachi have said of the train’s performance on batteries, I am convinced that Hull Trains will use an electrified Platform 7 at Hull station to charge the trains.
These pictures show a Hull Trains’s Class 802 train in Platform 7 at Hull station.
Note.
- The blue Hull Train is in Platform 7 in the pictures.
- Hull station has a classic Victorian cast-iron roof.
- Many other similar platforms have been electrified in the UK.
I believe that this platform can be electrified relatively easily with 25 KVAC overhead wires.
An Electric Service Between London and Worksop/Sheffield
Distances for the Worksop and Sheffield service are.
- ECML and Worksop – 12.2 km. – 1 stop
- Worksop and Sheffield- 25.3 km or 50.6 km both ways. – 1 stop
Note.
1. A train from London will leave Retford with a full battery.
2. Retford and Sheffield is only 37.5 km. So the round trip is only 75 km.
3. A full battery will power the train at 75 mph for 70 km – According to Hitachi.
4. Much of the track between Retford and Sheffield is only 60 mph. So going slower will give an energy saving.
5. Slowing at Worksop, Woodhouse and Sheffield will give the batteries a small charge.
6. There are no bridges in the Workshop station area, so a mile or so of electrification could be easy.
7. It’s an easy level route.
8. I’ve read somewhere that Hitachi have a full route simulator.
I calculate, that a two minute charge at Worksop would probably be all the train would need to travel the 75 km. on batteries.
We don’t know if Hitachi have licenced some of Vivarail’s FastCharge technology from FirstGroup. This could enable them to extract the maximum value from each stop at Worksop.
The One Battery Test Train And Lumo
Hitachi’s current test train has two diesel engines and one battery pack.
It is likely that a train with this configuration could be used on Lumo’s new service to Rochdale.
As London Euston and Manchester Victoria is fully electrified, the only unelectrified section is the 16.7 km. between Manchester Victoria and Rochdale. This would mean, that to complete the trip, Lumo’s train would need the ability to do 33.4 km on battery power.
As Hitachi’s test train can do 70 km on a full charge, Lumo could use trains with the standard two diesel engine and one battery pack configuration. The battery would be charged on the electrified sections of the route, between London Euston and Manchester Victoria stations.
It looks to me, to be a superb demonstration of the capabilities of a battery-electric InterCity train with two diesel engines and one battery pack.
The One Battery Test Train And LNER
Hitachi’s current test train has two diesel engines and one battery pack.
It is likely that a train with this configuration could be used on several LNER services from King’s Cross.
- Bradford Forster Square – 21.9 km. from Leeds
- Cleethorpes – 102.5 km. from Newark
- Grimsby Town – 97.9 km. from Newark
- Harrogate – 29.4 km from Leeds
- Lincoln – 26.9 km. from Newark
- Middlesbrough – 35.2 km. from ECML
- Cleethorpes – 102.5 km. from ECML
- Scarborough – 67.8 km. from York
Note.
- Some services like those to Bradford Forster Square, Harrogate and Lincoln could be run by only charging on the East Coast Main Line.
- Some services like those to Middlesbrough and Scarborough could be run by charging at the destination.
- Other services would need more batteries and/or charging at the destination.
I haven’t put in the Scottish services as running them may be more complicated.
Running Longer Distances On Battery Power
This paragraph is from the original Hitachi press release.
This success demonstrates that Hitachi Rail is ready to deliver the next stage of a full intercity battery-electric train. Based on real-world data, such a train would have a range between 100-150km. These ranges can cover significant sections of non-electrified routes, eliminating the need for wires in tunnels or stations, and potentially saving hundreds of millions of pounds on electrification projects.
Note.
- I would assume that as many diesel engines as possible would be replaced with battery packs.
- On a typical three-battery Class 800 train, 802 train or Class 805 train, this could be up to three batteries.
- But on a four-battery Class 810 train, this could be up to four batteries.
A strategy would need to be developed for all routes and trains would be configured and allocated to the routes accordingly.
50% Increase For Northumberland Passengers Heading To London
The title of this post, is the same as that of this article on Rail Advent.
These two paragraphs introduce the article.
In the last two years, the number of customers travelling by Lumo‘s train services between Morpeth and London has increased by 50%.
According to Lumo, the increased demand for its services is due to leisure and business customers looking to travel more sustainably and the area’s tourism opportunities.
I don’t feel that the fifty percent increase is unexpected, as LNER now run seven trains per day (tpd) in both directions between Morpeth and London and Lumo now run five.
- Not all passengers travel between North of Morpeth and London.
- If you live in the Borderlands, you may find Morpeth a better alternative than driving to Edinburgh or Newcastle.
- Morpeth station has only 72 car parking spaces.
- Local buses and taxis may play a part.
- Car hire is available at Newcastle and Morpeth.
- Low fares will certainly play a part.
It will start to get interesting, when services start to run between Newcastle and Morpeth via the Northumberland Line.
The Anonymous Widower 