The Anonymous Widower

Is Six Platforms Enough At Euston For High Speed Two?

Will High Speed Two Lite Make Stafford An Important Station?

October 5, 2023 Posted by AnonW | Transport/Travel | High Speed Two, High Speed Two Lite | 6 Comments

High Speed Two To Stoke-on-Trent

Some of you out there might be a bit worried after Rishi Sunak’s speech today, when he announced he’d cancelled High Speed Two, as you might be losing a future high speed service.

Currently, Stoke-on-Trent is served by two trains per hour (tph), that run between London and Manchester Piccadilly.

One train calls at Milton Keynes Central, Rugby, Macclesfield and Stockport, and takes about 1:33 to Stoke and 2:12 to Manchester Piccadilly.
The other calls at Nuneaton and Stockport, and takes about 1:30 to Stoke and 2:06 to Manchester Piccadilly.
Trains are both 9-car and 11-car Class 390 trains or Pendolinos.
All trains go via Colwich.

This map shows the Colwich, Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent.

Note.

Electrified lines are shown in red.
The line across the South-West corner of the map is the West Coast Main Line.
Stafford is the Northern end of the Trent Valley Line, which runs East along the bottom of the map.
The Trent Valley Line, which is a by-pass of the West Coast Main Line, rejoins that line at Rugby.
Stoke-on-Trent is in the North-West corner of the map.
Colwich is in the South-East corner of the map and is marked by a blue arrow.
There are two routes between Stone-on-Trent and Colwich; the more-direct Northern route and a Southern route via Stafford.

The current services between London and Stoke-on-Trent use the more-direct Northern route, although they can take the Southern route via Stafford.

This must mean that as Stoke-on-Trent services take the Northern route, there are more paths through Stafford for West Coast Main Line services to and from Liverpool, Manchester and Scotland.

This graphic shows High Speed Two services after Phase 2b is completed.

Note.

Services shown in blue are run by High Speed Two Full Size trains.
Services shown in yellow are run by High Speed Two Classic-Compatible trains.
Each of these trains will have a frequency of one tph.

The third High Speed Two Classic-Compatible train from the left is a London and Macclesfield service, which will stop at Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent, has the following timings from London.

Stafford – 0:55 – 22 minutes faster
Stoke-on-Trent – 1:10 – 14 minutes faster
Macclesfield – 1:30 – 11 minutes faster

I have a few thoughts and questions.

How Does This High Speed Two Service Get To And From London?

The service goes through Stafford and then takes the Trent Valley Line to the South.

This map clipped from the HS2 site, shows the original layout of HS2 to the North and East of Lichfield.

Note.

High Speed Two runs North-South across the map.
After the Junction by Fradley South, the now-scrapped High Speed Two to Crewe and the North, is the branch to the East.
The other branch connects to the Trent Valley Line, which can be picked out North of Lichfield, where it passes through Lichfield Trent Valley station.
The Trent Valley Line goes North-West through Colwich to Stafford, where the line rejoins the West Coast Main Line.

As the Eastern branch North from the junction has been scrapped, all trains between London and North would go via this link between High Speed Two at Lichfield and Trent Valley Line through Stafford.

Can The Current Trains and the High Speed Two Classic-Compatible Trains Share Tracks?

The answer will be yes, as the High Speed Two Classic-Compatible trains have been designed to share tracks with existing trains.

Full digital signalling may be needed to enable 140 mph running and more paths on the classic lines.

Will There Be A Second High Speed Two Service To Stoke-On-Trent And Stafford?

One of the problems with High Speed Two is that it won’t call at stations in the Midlands that are currently served by Avanti West Coast.

Currently, stations with an Avanti call are Milton Keynes Central, Nuneaton and Rugby.
Avanti’s second Liverpool service will call at Tamworth and Lichfield Trent Valley.
In the June 2023 Edition of Modern Railways, Avanti’s Managing Director; Andy Mellors talks about the benefits the company accrues from stopping in the Midlands.

I believe that after High Speed Two opens, that a semi-fast service could run between London and Manchester.

It would be run by a Class 390 train or Pendolino.
It would use the route currently used by Manchester services via Stoke-on-Trent.
At the Southern end, it would terminate in London Euston.
It could call at Watford Junction, Milton Keynes Central, Rugby, Nuneaton, Lichfield Trent Valley, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield and Stockport.
,Station stops would be arranged as to need.
A one stop service to London takes 90 minutes from Stoke-on-Trent, with a two-stopper taking 93 minutes, so does each stop with a Pendolino add three minutes to the journey time?

Such a service could be developed to give stations like Stoke-on-Trent a second service to London.

The Lines Around Stafford

This map from OpenRailwayMap shows the lines around Stafford.

Note.

Red lines are electrified.
Black Lines are not.
Stafford is marked by the blue arrow.

Selective electrification could probably improve connectivity by a large margin.

This Google map shows Stafford station.

I feel that Stafford station could be developed into a major interchange between High Speed Two and local services.

Conclusion

It looks to me that Stoke-on-Trent will be well-served by High Speed Two.

October 5, 2023 Posted by AnonW | Transport/Travel | Avanti West Coast, Class 390 Train, High Speed Two, High Speed Two Classic-Compatible Trains, High Speed Two Lite, Rishi Sunak, Stafford Station, Stoke-on-Trent Station, Trent Valley Line, West Coast Main Line | 8 Comments

High Speed Two To Holyhead

Rishi Sunak has just announced that the North Wales Main Line will be electrified, along with the cancellation of further phases of High Speed Two.

I have written about this topic before in Could High Speed Two Serve Holyhead?.

In that post, I started with this question and answer.

Why?

It could be a way to create a zero- or low-carbon route between the islands of Great Britain and Ireland.

In Could High Speed Two Finish At Lichfield?, I discussed, what might happen if the Birmingham to Manchester leg of High Speed Two were to be scrapped.

This was my main conclusion.

I strongly believe that an upgraded Trent Valley Line linked to a shortened High Speed Two at Lichfield could improve journey times between London, Birmingham and the North.

As the current Holyhead services will pass this junction between the Trent Valley Line and High Speed Two, there is no reason, why they couldn’t take High Speed Two to and from London, if the service was run by High Speed Two Classic-Compatible Trains.

These are further thoughts.

Timings

These would be the times in hours:minutes.

Bangor – 2:42
Chester – 1:28
Holyhead – 3:10
Llandudno Junction – 2:24

Currently, Holyhead is three hours and forty-five minutes.

Would the Electrification Be Full Or Partial Between Crewe And Holyhead?

This question will be increasingly asked about electrification.

Consider.

CAF, Hitachi, Siemens and Stadler are all developing battery-electric technology for trains.
The UK’s first battery-electric train service goes into service tomorrow between Liverpool and Headbolt Lane station.
Freight locomotives are increasingly being ordered with both electric and diesel power.
Some of the castles, countryside and other monuments wouldn’t be enhanced, with lots of overhead electrification.

I think it is likely, that electrification will increasingly have gaps for visual, technical or heritage reasons.

Electrification of the North Wales Coast Line with other small improvements could probably reduce the journey time between London and Holyhead to around three hours.

Would There Be Enough Paths On The Trent Valley Line And High Speed Two?

This graphic shows High Speed Two services after Phase 2b is completed.

Note.

Services shown in blue are run by High Speed Two Full Size trains.
Services shown in yellow are run by High Speed Two Classic-Compatible trains.
There are a total of 23 train paths of which eleven would need to go along the Trent Valley Line.
The three London-Manchester services and the two Birmingham-Manchester services would have to be run by High Speed Two Classic-Compatible trains.
The second Liverpool train is only a single train, but it could be a pair, that split at Crewe, with one train going to Liverpool and the other to Chester and North Wales.
All the Avanti West Coast services, currently using the Trent Valley Line would probably be replaced by High Speed Two services.

There would have to be a bit of reorganising, but I suspect an hourly path could be found for a train between London and Holyhead.

A Fast Green Route To The Emerald Isle

Electrification of the North Wales Coast Line with other small improvements could probably reduce the journey time between London and Holyhead to around three hours.

This service could be paired with a fast zero-carbon ferry to the island of Ireland?

Conclusion

I am fairly sure that an HS2 service to Holyhead could be run, once the North Wales Coast Line is electrified.

October 4, 2023 Posted by AnonW | Transport/Travel | Avanti West Coast, Electrification, Green Route To Ireland, High Speed Two, High Speed Two Classic-Compatible Trains, High Speed Two Lite, Holyhead, Holyhead Station, Island Of Ireland, North Wales, North Wales Coast Line, Trent Valley Line | 9 Comments

Could High Speed Two Finish At Lichfield?

I wrote this post before Rishi Sunak made his speech.

I went to Manchester and Liverpool yesterday by train.

I took the 10:33 from Euston and this a summary of my journey.

The train left Euston half a minute early.
It arrived at Stafford (133.5 miles) at 11:50 and left at 11:52.
It arrived at Crewe (158.0 miles) at 12:08 and left at 12.10.
It arrived at Wilmslow (176.9 miles) at 12:25 and left at 12:27.
It arrived at Stockport (183.0 miles) at 12:35 and left at 12:37.
It arrived in Manchester Piccadilly (188.9 miles) at 12:46.
It was two minutes late into Manchester and more or less on time at the other stops.

Note.

The route was via the Trent Valley Line and the train passed through Nuneaton, Tamworth, Lichfield Trent Valley, Colwich and Stafford.
Euston and Manchester had been timetabled at two hours and eleven minutes.
This is an average speed of 86.5 mph.
The Wikipedia entry for High Speed Two gives the fastest time before High Speed Two opens as one hour and fifty-four minutes.
This will be an average speed of 99.4 mph.

Coming home, I took the 18:48 from Liverpool Lime Street and this a summary of my journey.

The train left Liverpool on time.
It arrived at Runcorn (13.2 miles) at 18:58 and left at 19:02.
It arrived at Crewe (35.8 miles) at 19:26 and left at 19:28.
It arrived at Milton Keynes (143.8 miles) at 20:27 and left at 20:29.
It arrived in Euston (183.6 miles) at 21:00.
It was five minutes late into Crewe and two minutes early at Euston.

Note.

The route was via the Trent Valley Line and the train passed through Stafford, Colwich, Lichfield Trent Valley, Tamworth and Nuneaton.
Liverpool and Euston had been timetabled at two hours and twenty minutes.
This is an average speed of 78.7 mph.
The Wikipedia entry for High Speed Two gives the fastest time before High Speed Two opens as two hours and three minutes.
This will be an average speed of 89.6 mph.

This map clipped from the High Speed Two web site, shows the junction North of Lichfield, where High Speed Two connects to the Trent Valley Line through Stafford.

Note.

High Speed Two runs North-South across the map.
After the Junction by Fradley South, High Speed Two to Crewe and the North, is the branch to the East.
The other branch connects to the Trent Valley Line at Handsacre junction.
Trent Valley Line can be picked out North of Lichfield, where it passes through Lichfield Trent Valley station.

The Trent Valley Line is no Victorian double-track slow-speed bottleneck.

The route between Rugby and Crewe is generally three or four tracks, with only one short stretch of double track, through Shugborough tunnel.
The speed limit is generally 110 mph, with 90 mph at Shugborough.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see Avanti West Coast’s Class 390 and Class 807 trains could be running at up to 140 mph on the route, if digital signalling were to be installed.
This speed would probably be attained by High Speed Two trains.

London Euston and Stafford would only have under twenty miles of slower line and that could be 140 mph, so High Speed Two times on the route could be very fast.

This second map clipped from the High Speed Two web site, shows between High Speed Two’s two Birmingham stations and Lichfield.

Note.

High Speed Two Phases 1 and 2a are shown in blue.
High Speed Two Phase 2b is shown in orange.
At the top of the map, can be seen the junction, where High Speed Two to the North splits, that was shown in the previous map.
The large blue dot in the West at the bottom of the map, is Birmingham Curzon Street station.
The other large blue dot is Birmingham International station.
The three sections of High Speed Two to London, Birmingham Curzon Street and the North meet at a triangular junction between the two Birmingham stations.
High Speed Two to the East Midlands, branches off to the East North of the triangular junction.

This third map clipped from the High Speed Two web site, shows between Lichfield and Crewe.

Note.

High Speed Two Phase 2a is shown in blue.
High Speed Two Phase 2b is shown in orange.
Crewe is in the North-West corner of the map, where at the South end of the orange section.
The junction at Lichfield is in the South-East corner of the map.
The lighter blue route to the East, between the Lichfield junction and Crewe is the new tracks of High Speed Two.
The darker blue route to the West, between the Lichfield junction and Crewe is the existing route of the Trent Valley Line and the West Coast Main Line.
The Trent Valley Line joins the West Coast Main Line at Stafford.

These are a few thoughts and questions.

How Will Trains Go Between Birmingham Curzon Street And London?

Trains will use the triangular junction shown in the second map to go between the two Birmingham stations and then head South,

How Will Trains Go Between Birmingham Curzon Street And The North?

Trains will use the triangular junction shown in the second map to turn North and then take one of the two routes to the North; High Speed Two or Trent Valley Line/West Coast Main Line.

How Will Trains Go Between Birmingham Curzon Street And The North If High Speed Two Between Birmingham And The North Is Scrapped?

If High Speed Two is scrapped from the Northern point of the triangular junction to the North, there will be no way that trains could go North from Birmingham Curzon Street.

The overcrowded Birmingham New Street station will still be the link to the North of England and Scotland for Birmingham.
How would trains connect to the future branch to East Midlands Parkway, which connects just North of the triangular junction?

I suspect that a short stub will be built North of the triangular junction to connect to the Trent Valley Line, which is currently, the main route of trains between London and the North through the West Midlands, for trains that don’t go through Birmingham.

Trains Between London And Stafford

Currently, Avanti West Coast trains take around one hour and seventeen minutes between London and Stafford.

The Wikipedia entry for High Speed Two gives these times between London and Stafford.

Fastest time before High Speed Two – one hour and seventeen minutes.
Time after Phase 2a of High Speed Two opens – fifty-five minutes.

Note.

That is a time saving of twenty-two minutes.

High Speed Two Trains will use the link between the junction at Lichfield and the Trent Valley Line.

How Many Avanti West Coast Services Use The Trent Valley Line?

These trains use the Trent Valley Line.

London and Holyhead – 8 tpd
London and Liverpool Lime Street – 1 tph, which is planned to increase to 2 tph
London and Manchester Piccadilly – 2 tph
London and Blackpool North – 1 tpd
London and Glasgow – 1 tph

Note.

tpd is trains per day
tph is trains per hour

This is roughly six tph.

Would It Be Possible To Finish High Speed Two At The Lichfield Junction And Connect It To The Trent Valley Line?

This is a repeat of the first map.

Note.

High Speed Two runs North-South across the map.
After the Junction by Fradley South, High Speed Two to Crewe and the North, is the branch to the East.
The other branch connects to the Trent Valley Line at Handsacre junction.
Trent Valley Line can be picked out North of Lichfield, where it passes through Lichfield Trent Valley station.

If the Eastern branch North from the junction were to be scrapped, all trains between London and North would go via Stafford.

As all these tracks are planned and must be at an advanced stage, that is ready for construction, I feel the route would be feasible.

It would have these benefits.

Birmingham Curzon Street services and the North-West of England and the West of Scotland would be possible.
Services between London and Stafford will be twenty-two minutes faster, than they are now.
Time savings will also apply to services from London to Liverpool, Macclesfield, Manchester, Stoke-on-Trent and all stations between Crewe and Glasgow.

The capacity of the Trent Valley Line would be the limiting factor.

Time Savings Between Crewe And Preston

According to the Wikipedia entry for High Speed Two, after Phase 2a of High Speed Two opens, these will be the fastest times to Crewe and Preston.

Crewe – 0:56
Preston 1:18

Note.

The fastest Preston service runs non-stop between Euston and Preston.
Crewe and Preston are 51 miles apart.

A time of 22 minutes between Crewe and Preston, means the average speed is 139 mph.

Does this mean that High Speed Two will improve between Crewe and Preston to allow 140 mph non-stop running?

But 22 minutes is certainly an improvement on the current time between Crewe and Preston for Scottish trains of 40 minutes.

Time Savings Between Crewe And Liverpool

The upgrading of the line between might save another couple of minutes between Crewe and Weaver junction.

What Times Would Be Possible Via High Speed Two And The Trent Valley Line?

These times are based on the following.

The twenty-two minute saving to Stafford, as all High Speed Two services to the North-West of England and the West of Scotland will go via Phase 1 of High Speed Two and Stafford.
A saving of eighteen minutes will be applied to Scottish services because of savings between Crewe and Preston.

This would give these times in hours:minutes.

Blackpool – 2:10
Carlisle – 2:35
Chester – 1:28
Crewe – 1:08
Glasgow – 3:50
Holyhead – 3:10
Lancaster – 2:03
Liverpool Lime Street – 1:41
Llandudno Junction – 2:24
Macclesfield – 1:30
Manchester Piccadilly via Crewe – 1:52
Oxenholme – 1:54
Preston – 1:46
Runcorn 1:31
Stafford – 0:55
Stockport – 1:35
Stoke-on-Trent – 1:10
Warrington – 1:22
Wigan 1:33
Wilmslow – 1:25

I have calculated extra services to Blackpool and North Wales.

Adding The Lichfield And Crewe Section

Consider.

My calculations indicate that London and Crewe will take 1:08.
The Wikipedia entry for High Speed Two, after Phase 2a of High Speed Two opens, gives the fastest time to Crewe as 0:56.

This indicates that adding the section of High Speed Two between Lichfield and Crewe will save a further twelve minutes.

Conclusion

I strongly believe that an upgraded Trent Valley Line linked to a shortened High Speed Two at Lichfield could improve journey times between London, Birmingham and the North.

There are certainly savings to be made.

See Also

October 4, 2023 Posted by AnonW | Transport/Travel | Avanti West Coast, Birmingham Curzon Street Station, Birmingham International Station, Class 390 Train, Class 807 Train, Euston Station, Handsacre Junction, High Speed Two, High Speed Two Classic-Compatible Trains, High Speed Two Lite, Lichfield Trent Valley Station, Liverpool Lime Street Station, Manchester Piccadilly Station, Nuneaton Station, Trent Valley Line | 11 Comments

High Speed Two To Lancaster

There has been a lot of speculation about the Northern end of High Speed Two, so I might as well add sort out a few facts and add a bit of speculation of my own.

The Current Lancaster Service

I shall look at the 07:30 train on the 29th September 2023.

It was a nine-car Class 390 train or Pendolino, which left on time.
Euston and Lancaster are 230 miles apart.
The train passed Crewe at 09:59
The train arrived at Warrington Bank Quay at 09:14 and left at 09:15.
The train arrived at Wigan North Western at 09:25 and left at 09:26.
The train arrived at Preston at 09:39 and left at 09:41.
The train arrived at Lancaster at 09:55 and left at 09:57.
The journey took two hours and 25 minutes
The average speed was 95.2 mph.
There is at least one train per hour (tph).

Lancaster Will Get Its Own High Speed Two Service

This graphic shows High Speed Two services after Phase 2b is completed.

Note.

Lancaster and Liverpool share a pair of High Speed Two Classic Compatible trains, that will split and join at Crewe.
The Lancaster service will stop at Warrington Bank Quay, Wigan North Western and Preston, to the North of Crewe.

The Wikipedia entry for High Speed Two gives these times for trains from London after Phase 2a opens to Crewe.

Crewe – 56 minutes
Warrington Bank Quay – One hour and 20 minutes
Wigan North Western – One hour and 34 minutes
Preston – One hour and 18 minutes
Lancaster – Two hours and 3 minutes
Oxenholme – One hour and 56 minutes
Carlisle – Two hours and 23 minutes

Note.

The Crewe, Warrington Bank Quay, Wigan North Western and Lancaster times will apply to the direct Lancaster service.
The Preston and Carlisle times apply to the non-stop Scottish service.
Oxenholme will be reached with a change from London.
Currently, Pendolinos travel between Crewe and Lancaster in an hour or a few minutes less.

I feel the Lancaster time is suspect and a better time would be around one hour and 52-56 minutes.

140 Mph Running Between Crewe And Preston

Consider.

London Euston and Crewe is 56 minutes
One hour and 18 minutes to Preston infers a time of 22 minutes between Crewe and Preston.
Crewe and Preston is 51 miles.

This implies an average speed of 139 mph.

As the West Coast Main Line was built for 140 mph, when digital signalling was installed, this would appear to be feasible, once the signalling is upgraded.

It may also mean, that faster times are possible in services to Warrington Bank Quay and Wigan North Western.

Crewe And Warrington Bank Quay

Consider.

The distance is 24.1 miles
HS2 will take 24 minutes with one acceleration and one deceleration, which probably take a maximum of 4 minutes in total.
I explain the four minutes in High Speed Two To Crewe.

This gives an average speed of 72.3 mph.

Warrington Bank Quay And Wigan North Western

Consider.

The distance is 11.7 miles
HS2 will take 14 minutes with one acceleration and one deceleration, which probably take a maximum of 4 minutes in total.

This gives an average speed of 70.2 mph.

Wigan North Western And Lancaster

Consider.

The distance is 36.1 miles
HS2 will take 29 minutes with two accelerations and two decelerations, which probably take a maximum of 8 minutes in total.
I will also allow a minute for the dwell time at Preston.

This gives an average speed of 108.3 mph.

Crewe And Lancaster

Consider.

The distance is 72 miles
HS2 will take 67 minutes with four accelerations and four decelerations, which probably take a maximum of 16 minutes in total.
I will also allow a minute for the dwell times at Warrington Bank Quay, Wigan and Preston.

This gives an average speed of 90.6 mph.

I now feel happier about two hours and three minutes between London and Lancaster.

Conclusion

The West Coast Main Line needs upgrading to full in-cab digital signalling as soon as possible.

Once working it would give journey time savings for everybody travelling on the line.

October 1, 2023 Posted by AnonW | Transport/Travel | Crewe Station, Digital Signalling, Eden Project Morecambe, High Speed Two, High Speed Two Classic-Compatible Trains, High Speed Two Lite, Lancaster Station, Preston Station, Warrington Bank Quay Station, Wigan North Western Station | 8 Comments

High Speed Two To Crewe

There has been a lot of speculation about the Northern end of High Speed Two, so I might as well add sort out a few facts and add a bit of speculation of my own.

Sample Times Between London And Crewe

These are selected times from the 27th September 2023.

07:30 – Glasgow Non-Stop – 1:29
07:33 – Manchester Piccadilly – 1:37 – Stops at Stafford
07:43 – Liverpool Lime Street – 1:40 – Stops at Milton Keynes
08:30 – Glasgow Non-Stop – 1:29
08:33 – Manchester Piccadilly – 1:37 – Stops at Stafford
08:43 – Liverpool Lime Street – 1:40 – Stops at Milton Keynes
09:02 – Holyhead – 1:40 – Stop at Stafford
15:02 – Chester – 1:40 – Stops at Tamworth, Lichfield Trent Valley and Stafford

Note.

The 07:30 and 08:30 Glasgow services appears to be pathed for one of the Class 390 Pendolino electric trains and were run by Pendolinos.
The 07:33 and 08:33 Manchester services appears to be pathed for one of the Pendolino electric trains and were run by Pendolinos.
The 07:43 and 08:43 Liverpool services appears to be pathed for one of the new Class 807 electric trains, but were run by Pendolinos.
The 15:02 Chester service appears to be pathed for one of the new Class 805 bi-mode trains.
All services except the Glasgow services stop at Crewe.
As London Euston and Crewe is 158 miles, the non-stop Glasgow services average 107 mph, the one-stop Manchester service averages 98 mph and the one-stop Liverpool service averages 95 mph.

I have some further thoughts.

How Long Does A Stop Take?

I’ve looked at some stops of Glasgow, Liverpool and Manchester services

Crewe

Looking at timings between Weaver Junction and Norton Bridge, I have found the following times.

Glasgow-Euston – 23 minutes
Liverpool-Euston – 28 minutes

Note.

Manchester services don’t go through Weaver Junction.
Weaver Junction and Norton Bridge are respectively North and South of Crewe.
The Liverpool service stops at Crewe, where it has a dwell time of two minutes.
The Glasgow service goes straight through Crewe.

The Crewe stop takes a total of 5 minutes of which 3 minutes are deceleration and acceleration to and from linespeed.

Stafford

Looking at timings between Norton Bridge and Colwich, I have found the following times.

Glasgow-Euston – 7½ minutes
Liverpool-Euston – 7½ minutes
Manchester -Euston – 14 minutes

Note.

Norton Bridge and Colwich are respectively North and South of Stafford.
The Manchester service stops at Stafford, where it has a dwell time of two minutes.
The Glasgow and Liverpool services go straight through Stafford.

The Stafford stop takes a total of 6½ minutes of which 4½ minutes are deceleration and acceleration to and from linespeed.

Milton Keynes

Looking at timings between Weedon and Bletchley, I have found the following times.

Glasgow-Euston – 11½ minutes
Liverpool-Euston – 16 minutes
Manchester -Euston – 12½ minutes

Note.

Weedon and Bletchley are respectively North and South of Milton Keynes.
The Liverpool service stops at Milton Keynes, where it has a dwell time of one minute.
The Glasgow and Manchester services go straight through Milton Keynes.

The Milton Keynes stop takes a total of 4 minutes of which 3 minutes are deceleration and acceleration to and from linespeed.

Average Speeds Between Crewe And London

London Ruston and Crewe is 158 miles according to Real Time Trains.

So what would times would various average speeds deliver?

100 mph – 95 minutes
110 mph – 86 minutes
120 mph – 79 minutes
125 mph – 76 minutes
130 mph – 73 minutes
140 mph – 68 minutes

Obviously, any average speed with over 125 mph running, will need full digital signalling.

Liverpool And London In Two Hours

Tucked away beside the Grand Union Sets Out Stirling Ambitions article in the December 2022 Edition of Modern Railways is a report on Avanti West Coast’s application for a second service between Euston and Liverpool.

This is said.

Avanti West Coast has applied for access rights for its second hourly Euston to Liverpool service, starting from December 2023, although a phased introduction of the new service is likely. This would make use of Avanti’s new fleet of 10×7-car Class 807 Hitachi EMUs, which are expected to enter service from Autumn 2023. The ‘807s’ would be deployed on the current hourly Liverpool service, on which a call at Liverpool South Parkway would be added. (provision is made for this in the December 2022 timetable.).

Pendolinos would then operate the second service each hour, calling at Lichfield Trent Valley and Tamworth.

A linespeed project is in progress to raise the permissible speed for non-tilting trains on the West Coast Main Line, and Avanti’s new Hitachi trains will take advantage of this.

I’ll take a quick look at the Crewe and Runcorn section.

It is 22.5 miles.
It takes 19 minutes.
That is an average speed of 71 mph.
Crewe and Weaver Junction has a speed limit of at least 110 mph
Runcorn and Weaver Junction has a speed limit of at least 90 mph for most of the way.
If with their superior performance, the new Class 807 trains could average 90 mph between Crewe and Runcorn, they would take 15 minutes.
Achieving the 90 mph average may need a bit of track realignment and some signaling changes.

The four minutes saved would be enough to handle the extra stop at Liverpool South Parkway.

Consider.

Currently, Pendolino trains do Liverpool and Crewe in 38 minutes, which includes the stop at Runcorn.
My calculation with the Class 807 trains, shows that with a bit of extra signalling, the new trains could do Liverpool and Crewe in 38 minutes with the two stops.
The stop at Crewe will subtract 5 minutes from the base journey time.
The stop at Milton Keynes will subtract 4 minutes from the base journey time.

This means the base journey time between Crewe and London will be 73 minutes.

This would indicate that the trains would be running at 130 mph to achieve the two hours.

But there are five accelerations and five decelerations on a journey between London and Liverpool and the new Class 807 trains are the Lotuses of Hitachi’s family of AT-300 trains; lightweight and powerful.

Suppose they could save thirty seconds for each acceleration and deceleration.

The base journey time between Crewe and London will be 78 minutes.

This would indicate that the trains would be running at over 120 mph to achieve the two hours.

I certainly feel, that Liverpool and London in two hours is certainly possible using the new Class 807 trains.

London and Crewe with two stops would be times at one hour and twelve minutes.

But what about the Pendolinos?

My last return trip from Liverpool did a practice call at Liverpool South Parkway and still arrived in London a few minutes early.
The Pendolinos will still benefit from any improvements, between Crewe and Runcorn, which could reduce the Liverpool and Crewe time from 38 minutes to 34 minutes.
The stop at Crewe will subtract 5 minutes from the base journey time.
The stops at Lichfield Trent Valley and Tamworth will both subtract 4 minutes from the base journey time.

This means the base journey time between Crewe and London will be 73 minutes, which is the same as for the Class 807 trains.

This would indicate that the trains would be running at 130 mph to achieve the two hours.

Could this average speed be achieved by the selective application of full digital signalling, perhaps on the Trent Valley Line?

But it does appear to me, that the Pendolinos can get very close to two hours between London and Liverpool.

London and Crewe with three stops would be times at one hour and sixteen minutes.

Crewe And London Non-Stop

Consider.

Pendolinos between London and Glasgow, go non-stop between London and Crewe.
I have calculated that Pendolinos between London and Liverpool, will take one hour and sixteen minutes with three stops between London and Crewe.
The three stops take a total of thirteen minutes.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see London and Glasgow Pendolinos take one hour and three minutes between London and Crewe.

This would knock twenty-six minutes off journey times between London and Glasgow.

Conclusion

I believe that with relatively minor improvements on the West Coast Main Line and the Liverpool branch, the following can be achieved.

Liverpool and London can be around two hours with new Class 807 trains or Pendolinos.
Liverpool and London services can increase their calls in the Midlands.
London and Glasgow services can be nearly half-an-hour faster.
The fastest London and Crewe services could be just over an hour using Pendolinos.

I also believe that the only serious infrastructure needed is some track realignment and some updated signalling.

September 30, 2023 Posted by AnonW | Transport/Travel | Avanti West Coast, Chester Station, Class 390 Train, Class 805 Train, Class 807 Train, Class AT-300 Train, Crewe Station, Euston Station, Glasgow Central Station, High Speed Two, High Speed Two Classic-Compatible Trains, High Speed Two Lite, Holyhead Station, Liverpool Lime Street Station, Manchester Piccadilly Station, Milton Keynes Central Station, Stafford Station, West Coast Main Line | 11 Comments

High Speed Two To Manchester

There has been a lot of speculation about the Northern end of High Speed Two, so I might as well add sort out a few facts and add a bit of speculation of my own.

The Current Manchester Piccadilly Services

Currently, there are three trains per hour (tph) between London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly.

The services stop as follows.

Milton Keynes Central, Rugby, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield and Stockport
Nuneaton, Stoke-on-Trent and Stockport
Stafford, Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport

Note.

One service goes via Crewe.
Two services go via Stoke-on-Trent.
All services go via Stockport.
A London and Manchester Piccadilly train could go via Milton Keynes Central, Nuneaton, Rugby, Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield and Stockport.
A London and Manchester Piccadilly train could go via Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport.

The two trains detailed would mean that Manchester wouldn’t lose any connectivity.

I would expect that Manchester Piccadilly needs at least three tph to and from London.

This graphic shows High Speed Two services after Phase 2b is completed.

Note.

Services shown in blue are run by High Speed Two Full Size trains.
Services shown in yellow are run by High Speed Two Classic-Compatible trains.
Full Size Services will only run to Manchester Airport and Manchester Piccadilly after Phase 2b is completed to Manchester Piccadilly.
Classic-Compatible Services will be able to run to to Manchester Piccadilly after Phase 2a is completed.
Two London and Manchester Piccadilly trains will call at just Old Oak Common and Manchester Airport.
A third London and Manchester Piccadilly train will call at Old Oak Common, Birmingham International and Manchester Airport.
Two Birmingham Curzon Street and Manchester Piccadilly trains will call at just Manchester Airport.
Despite Wilmslow and Stockport being shown in the list of stations on the left hand side of the graphic, no High Speed Two services appear to call at the two stations.

The graphic of High Speed Two services also shows these Full-Size services to Manchester Piccadilly.

Three tph to London Euston
Two tph to Birmingham Curzon Street

Some or all of these services will surely be run by High Speed Two Classic-Compatible trains.

What services will run to Manchester between the opening of Phase 2a and the opening of Phase 2b?

I will now give some possibilities for services.

London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Crewe, Wilmslow And Stockport

I shall look at the 07:33 train to Manchester Piccadilly on the 20th September 2023.

It was a service via Stafford, Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport
It was a nine-car Class 390 train or Pendolino, which left on time.
Euston and Manchester Piccadilly are 188.9 miles apart.
The train called at Crewe at 09:08 and left at 09:10.
The average speed between London Euston and Crewe is 70.7 mph.
The train arrived in Manchester Piccadilly on time at 09:44.
The journey took two hours and 11 minutes
The average speed was 86.5 mph.
The Crewe and Manchester Piccadilly section is 30.9 miles and the train is scheduled to take 34 minutes.
The average speed between Crewe and Manchester Piccadilly is 54.5 mph.
The example train slows past Crewe because of two stops at Wilmslow and Stockport.

When Phase 2a of High Speed Two opens a replacement for this service via Crewe, could operate as follows.

It could use High Speed Two between and Crewe.
It could use the current route between Crewe and Manchester Piccadilly.
It would probably use a 200 metre long High Speed Two Classic-Compatible trains.
I wouldn’t be surprised, that the current Pendolino service between Euston and Manchester Piccadilly via Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport was retired.
The new High Speed Two service could take over the path currently used by the current Pendolino service, between Crewe and Manchester Piccadilly.
The train could stop at Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport as required.
If it stopped at Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport, it would restore some of the connectivity to smaller places.

According to the Wikipedia entry for High Speed Two, these will be the timings.

London Euston and Crewe – 56 minutes
London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly Phase 2a – One hour and 30 minutes
London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly Phase 2b – One hour and 11 minutes

From these figures and the times of the 07:33, I can deduce these journey times for trains via Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport.

Currently, Crewe and Manchester Piccadilly takes 34 minutes.
High Speed Two after Phase 2a will also take 34 minutes.

I am surprised that sectional timings on this section of the West Coast Main Line are the same as current timings. Digital signalling and the faster acceleration and deceleration of the new trains, are quite likely to decrease times.

Because they are both 34 minutes, does that mean that services will stop at Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport?

London and Macclesfield Via Stafford And Stoke-on-Trent

This map of High Speed Two in North West England was captured from the interactive map on the High Speed Two web site.

Note.

The map dates from around October 2020.
The current West Coast Main Line (WCML) and Phase 2a of High Speed Two are shown in blue.
Phase 2b of High Speed Two is shown in orange.
The main North-South route, which is shown in blue, is the WCML passing through Crewe, Warrington Bank Quay and Wigan North Western as it goes North.
The Western Branch, which is shown in blue, is the Liverpool Branch of the WCML, which serves Runcorn and Liverpool.
High Speed Two, which is shown in orange, takes a faster route between Crewe and Wigan North Western.
The Eastern Branch, which is shown in orange, is the Manchester Branch of High Speed Two, which serves Manchester Airport and Manchester Piccadilly.
The route in the East, which is shown in blue, is the Macclesfield Branch of High Speed Two, which serves Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent and Macclesfield.

The route of Northern Powerhouse Rail between Manchester Airport and Liverpool has still to be finalised.

The London and Macclesfield service is as follows.

There will be one tph
There are intermediate stops at Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent.
Macclesfield has a long electrified bay platform, which looks like it will take a 200 m High Speed Two Classic-Compatible train.
Macclesfield Station And High Speed Two has pictures of the station.
Four tph operate between Stoke-on-Trent and Manchester Piccadilly via Macclesfield.
Timings from London would be 55 minutes to Stafford, 70 minutes to Stoke-on-Trent and 90 minutes to Macclesfield.

In some ways, I was surprised about this High Speed Two service.

But it does give an easy connection to Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent.

London and Manchester Piccadilly via Macclesfield, Stafford And Stoke-on-Trent

Currently, Avanti West Coast run a service between London and Manchester which runs as follows.

It calls at Milton Keynes Central, Rugby, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield and Stockport
It also passes through Watford Junction, Nuneaton, Tamworth and Lichfield Trent Valley.
It could pass through Stafford.
It would mean that Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent were served by 2 tph.
It is run by a Pendolino.
It has a frequency of 1 tph.
The current service takes two hours and 6 minutes.
A few minutes would be added for each extra stop.

I believe it could be a very useful service.

I wonder if it could be run as a complimentary service to High Speed Two to serve more places on the route.

A Second High Speed Two Service Between London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Crewe, Wilmslow And Stockport

So far, I have mapped out three possible services.

High Speed Two – London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Crewe, Wilmslow And Stockport – One hour and thirty minutes
High Speed Two – London and Macclesfield Via Stafford and Stoke – One hour and thirty minutes
Pendolino – London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Milton Keynes Central, Rugby, Nuneaton, Tamworth, Lichfield Trent Valley, Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield and Stockport – Two hours and 6 minutes plus 4 minutes for each extra stop.

I suspect that four tph could be a good frequency.

The simplest extra service would probably be another High Speed Two London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Crewe, Wilmslow And Stockport.

But it could be another Pendolino service to serve more places.

I believe a service pattern could be arranged with these features.

Major cities and towns between London and Manchester have at least two tph.
A larger number of towns and cities have at least one tph.

Note that many stations on the route already have Pendolino services.

Phase 2b Would Be The Ultimate Solution

Phase 2b which will involve a tunnel via Manchester Airport to new platforms in Manchester Piccadilly could be the ultimate solution.

Phase 2b is also needed so that full-size High Speed Two trains can be run to Manchester Piccadilly.

But it will be difficult, expensive and disruptive to build.

Conclusion

I believe it could be easy to plan four services between London and Manchester Piccadilly or Macclesfield.

High Speed Two Full-Size train – London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Crewe, Wilmslow And Stockport – One hour and eleven minutes
High Speed Two Classic-Compatible train – London and Macclesfield Via Stafford and Stoke – One hour and thirty minutes
High Speed Two Full-Size train – London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Crewe, Wilmslow And Stockport – One hour and eleven minutes
Pendolino – London and Manchester Piccadilly Via Milton Keynes Central, Rugby, Nuneaton, Tamworth, Lichfield Trent Valley, Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield and Stockport – Two hours and 6 minutes plus 4 minutes for each extra stop.

Note.

Services 1 and 3 are identical, but don’t need to be.

Service 4 could be run by a High Speed Two Classic-Compatible train.

September 24, 2023 Posted by AnonW | Transport/Travel | Avanti West Coast, Class 390 Train, CrossCountry Trains, High Speed Two, High Speed Two Classic-Compatible Trains, High Speed Two Full-Size Trains, High Speed Two Lite, Macclesfield Station, Manchester Piccadilly Station, Stafford Station, Stoke-on-Trent Station | 10 Comments

High Speed Two To Wigan

There has been a lot of speculation about the Northern end of High Speed Two, so I might as well add sort out a few facts and add a bit of speculation of my own.

The Current Wigan North Western Service

I shall look at the 08:30 train to Glasgow on the 20th September 2023.

It was an eleven-car Class 390 train or Pendolino, which left on time.
Euston and Wigan North Western are 193.8 miles apart.
Trains call at only Warrington Bank Quay
The train passed Crewe at 09:59
The train called at Warrington Bank Quay at 10:14 and left at 10:15.
The train arrived at Wigan North Western at 10:25 on time.
The journey took one hour and 55 minutes
The average speed was 101.1 mph.
The Crewe and Wigan North Western section is 35.8 miles and the train is scheduled to take 26 minutes.
The average speed between Crewe and Wigan North Western is 82.6 mph.

The train slows past Crewe because of the stop at Warrington Bank Quay.

London Euston And Wigan North Western After Phase 2a Of High Speed Two Opens

According to the Wikipedia entry for High Speed Two, these are the timings.

London Euston and Crewe – 56 minutes
London Euston and Warrington Bank Quay – One hour and 20 minutes
London Euston and Wigan North Western – One hour and 34 minutes

From these figures and the times of the 08:30, I can deduce these journey times.

Currently, Crewe and Warrington Bank Quay takes 16 minutes and High Speed Two will take 24 minutes
Currently, Warrington Bank Quay and Wigan North Western takes 10 minutes and High Speed Two will take 14 minutes
Currently, Crewe and Wigan North Western takes 26 minutes and High Speed Two will take 38 minutes

I am surprised that sectional timings on this short section of the West Coast Main Line are slower than current timings. Digital signalling and the faster acceleration and deceleration of the new trains, are more likely to decrease times, than increase them.

London Euston And Preston After Phase 2a Of High Speed Two Opens

According to the Wikipedia entry for High Speed Two, these are the timings.

London Euston and Crewe – 56 minutes
London Euston and Warrington Bank Quay – One hour and 20 minutes
London Euston and Wigan North Western – One hour and 34 minutes
London Euston and Preston – One hour and 18 minutes

This graphic shows High Speed Two services.

Note that Preston gets two non-stop services to and from London and another with stops at Warrington Bank Quay and Wigan North Western, and a train split/join at Crewe.

The one hour and 18 minutes surely applies to one or both of the non-stop services.

140 Mph Running Between Crewe And Preston

Consider.

London Euston and Crewe is 56 minutes
One hour and 18 minutes to Preston infers a time of 22 minutes between Crewe and Preston.
Crewe and Preston is 51 miles.

This implies an average speed of 139 mph.

As the West Coast Main Line was built for 140 mph, when digital signalling was installed, this would appear to be feasible, once the signalling is upgraded.

It may also mean, that faster times are possible in services to Warrington Bank Quay and Wigan North Western.

Consider.

Crewe and Wigan North Western is 35.8 miles
High Speed Two will take 38 minutes
The average speed between Crewe and Wigan North Western will be just 56.5 mph.

But if it could run at 140 mph mph between Crewe and Wigan North Western, the base time would be just over 15 minutes.

To this time must be added two full station stops and the time it takes to split or join.

With the superior acceleration and deceleration of the High Speed Two trains and their level of automation, these operations will not take 23 minutes.

I believe that this means that minutes can be saved on services to Lancaster, Liverpool Lime Street, Warrington Bank Quay and Wigan North Western.

London Euston And Wigan North Western After Phase 2b Of High Speed Two Opens

There will be no changes as the full-size High Speed Two trains are not planned to run to the North of Crewe.

High Speed Two Lancaster