Riding The Bakerloop BL1 – 28th September 2025
The Bakerloop BL1 is a new express bus route in London, that runs between Waterloo station and Lewisham Town Centre.
This article on the BBC, which is entitled New Bus Route Launches With Free Fares In Week One, announced the route.
This is the sub heading.
A new bus route that links parts of south-east London has launched with free fares for its first week of operation
These two paragraphs describe the service in more detail.
The Bakerloop will run between Waterloo station and Lewisham every 12 minutes during the day from Monday to Saturday and every 15 minutes in the evenings and on Sundays.
Electric double-decker BL1 services will operate between 05:00 BST and 00:30 along the proposed Bakerloo Tube line extension route, stopping at Elephant and Castle, New Cross Gate and Lewisham stations.
I took these pictures as I rode from Waterloo station to Lewisham Town Centre.
Note.
- The route starts at Stop D in Waterloo Road on the East side of Waterloo station.
- If you leave the station by Exit 2 and then cross Waterloo Road on the light-controlled crossing, then Stop D is less than thirty metres to your right.
- Pictures 15-24 were taken as the bus went over Bricklayers Arms flyover.
- Picture 23 is a close up of one of the trees along the route. Is it a London Plane.
- Despite the Summer, most trees seem to be in a reasonable condition.
- Crossing the roads and the information could be better in Lewisham Town Centre.
I have some further thoughts.
Trains And Bakerloop BL1 Compared
Consider.
- The bus takes a few minutes over half-an-hour.
- The train takes 19 minutes.
- The train runs twice an hour.
- The bus runs at least four times per hour.
The bus is probably the more affordable option, but the train is faster.
Is The Bakerloop BL1 Fast Enough?
Consider.
- The bus certainly takes almost twice as long as the trains.
- But then it is more frequent.
- The route doesn’t seem particularly hilly.
- The Alexander-Dennis bus didn’t seem slow.
- The bus would probably attract more passengers, if it was faster.
It will be interesting to see how this route develops.
Would Hydrogen Buses Help?
Two of the hydrogen buses, I have ridden have been on longer routes and they have used their undoubted extra power to accelerate and climb hills faster.
Their longer range probably allows them to work for much of a day, without refuelling.
So I wouldn’t rule out hydrogen buses on this route, at some point in the future, because of the route’s length.
Is Bakerloop The Right Name?
I don’t think so, as a certain class of tourist, will assume the bus goes to Baker Street and the Sherlock Holmes Museum.
Perhaps, it should have been called something descriptive like the Waterloo-Lewisham Express.
Is Bakerloop BL1 Being Used As A Pathfinder For The Bakerloo Line Extension To Lewisham?
I’ve read somewhere that it is.
It wouldn’t be a new idea and a properly structured trial could give valuable information about how many people would use the new rail route.
Surely, a similar approach could be taken to provide projections for passenger usage on the West London Orbital Railway.
Could Other Routes Use A Similar Philosophy?
In Riding Birmingham’s New Hydrogen-Powered Buses, I rode a route across Birmingham, that was run to a similar philosophy to the Bakerloop BL1 route, except thast it used hydrogen buses.
So I’m pretty sure the answer is in the affirmative.
Will Three-Axle Double-Deck Buses Be Useful For Routes Like BakerLoop BL1?
I asked Google AI, if three axle electric and hydrogen double-deck buses were being developed and received this reply.
Yes, Wrightbus and Wisdom Motor have developed and are producing three-axle zero-emission double-decker buses, including both battery-electric and hydrogen fuel-cell models. Wrightbus recently unveiled its 6×2 Streetdeck prototype, and Wisdom Motor partnered with Citybus to develop a three-axle hydrogen double-decker (DD12) for Hong Kong’s bus fleet.
I believe that a three-axle bus may have a greater payload, so for routes like Bakerloop BL1, they may be very useful, if only to carry bigger batteries.
Jobs, Homes And The Economy: Bakerloo Line Upgrade And Extension To Be Transformational For London
The title of this post, is the same as that of this article on Rail Technology Magazine.
This is the sub-heading.
The government has been urged to use the upcoming spring budget to commit to upgrading and extending the Bakerloo line after a new impact assessment found its effects could be transformational.
These three paragraphs introduce the article.
The impact assessment – commissioned by Central London Forward, a partnership of 12 central London boroughs – finds that such a move would boost the economy, unlock new homes, create new jobs, and more.
The upgrade would centre around new trains and signalling, while the extension would take the terminus to Lewisham in the first phase, and eventually to Hayes – adding 14 new stations.
The impact assessment concludes that the extension and upgrade of the Bakerloo line would create 9,700 jobs, 190,000 square metres of commercial floorspace, as well as generate £1.5bn of GVA.
The article is a must-read and eloquently puts the case for the Bakerloo Line Extension.
I have a few thoughts.
A Loop At Brixton For The Victoria Line
This has been proposed and the Wikipedia entry for the Victoria Line has this paragraph.
Proposals have been made to extend the line one stop southwards from Brixton to Herne Hill, a significant interchange in south London providing access to Kent, Blackfriars, London Bridge and Sutton. The latter station would be on a large reversing loop with a single platform removing a critical capacity restriction eliminating the need for trains to reverse at Brixton and provide a more obvious route for passengers who look for the nearest tube station before any other transport options.
I like this idea.
- It will make it easier to run the full frequency of 33 trains per hour (tph) between Brixton and Walthamstow Central stations.
- Loops at Heathrow and Liverpool seem to work very well.
- A single-platform with platform-edge doors has a high level of safety.
- Only one tunnel boring machine (TBM) would be needed.
- Large lifts could be used between the surface and the platform.
- It is a more affordable option.
But perhaps most importantly, I am sure, the loop could be built whilst other services at Brixton and Herne Hill were running almost without disruption, as services did at Kennington, whilst the Battersea Extension of the Northern Line was built.
A Loop At Elephant And Castle For The Bakerloo Line
I have spent forty years involved in project management, writing software for project managers and generally listening to some of the thoughts and experiences of some of the best engineers from all over the world.
One common thread, which is best illustrated by how the size of lift possible increased in the North Sea in the 1970s, is that as time has progressed machines have got bigger and more capable, and the techniques of using them has improved immeasurably.
The Crossrail tunnel boring machines (TBM) make those used on the Jubilee Line extension or the Channel Tunnel look like toys. But not only are the TBMs bigger and faster, they have all the precision and control to go through the eye of the smallest needle.
If we look at the proposals for the Bakerloo Line Extension, there have been several differing ideas. Some envisage going under Camberwell and in others the trains terminate on the Hayes line.
Transport for London (TfL), obviously know the traffic patterns, but do we really want to take the chance of say connecting the Hayes line to the Bakerloo and then finding that it’s not the best solution?
What we should do is augment the services in the area, by providing a good alternative transport route, that links to some of the traditional rail lines to give even more flexibility. We certainly shouldn’t repeat the grave mistake that was made at Brixton in the 1960s by not connecting the Victoria line to the surface rail lines.
This is Transport for London’s indicative map of the extension.
I have reason to believe that the Northern Line Extension may be being built as an extension to the Kennington Loop.
So could we design the Bakerloo Line Extension as a loop starting and finishing at Elephant and Castle calling at important stations?
A possible route could be.
- Elephant and Castle – Interchange with Northern Line and National Rail including Thameslink
- Old Kent Road 1 – Proposed on Map
- Old Kent Road 2 – Proposed on Map
- New Cross Gate – Interchange with London Overground and National Rail
- Lewisham – Interchange with Docklands Light Railway and National Rail including Hayes Line
- Catford Bridge – Interchange with Catford station and National Rail including Hayes Line and Thameslink
- Peckham Rye – Interchange with London Overground and National Rail
- Camberwell – Interchange with National Rail including Thameslink
- Elephant and Castle
The advantages of this simple design are.
- The tunnel would be excavated in one pass by a single TBM.
- The line could be deep under any existing infrastructure.
- Most stations would be simple one-platform affairs, with perhaps only large lifts and emergency stairs, to give unrivalled step-free access for all from the street to the train. Surely lifts exist, that are large and fast enough to dispense with escalators.
- For safety, passenger convenience and flows, and other reasons, the stations could have two entrances, at opposite ends of the platform.
- The simple station entrances would be much easier to position on the surface, as they wouldn’t need to be much bigger than the area demanded by the lifts.
- A single loop would only need half the number of platform edge doors.
- At stations like New Cross Gate, Lewisham, Catford and Peckham Rye the lifts would surface within the confines of the existing surface stations.
- The route has interchanges with the Brighton Main Line, East London Line, Hayes Link, Thameslink and other services, so this would give lots of travel possibilities.
- Trains do not need a terminal platform, as they just keep going on back to Elephant and Castle.
- The loop would be operationally very simple, with no points to go wrong. TfL have aspirations to run twenty-seven trains per hour on the Bakerloo and a simple reversing loop , which would mean the driver didn’t have to change ends, must certainly help this. It would probably be a lot more difficult to get this capacity at the northern end of the line,where Harrow and Wealdstone doesn’t have the required capacity and the only possibility for a reversing loop would be north of Stonebridge Park.
- Elephant and Castle would need little or no modification. Although it would be nice to have lifts to the Bakerloo Line.
- Somewhere over two billion pounds has been quoted for the extension. A single loop with simple stations must be more affordable.
The main disadvantage is that the loop is only one-way.
But making even part of the loop two-way would create all the operational difficulties of scheduling the trains. It would probably be better, less costly and easier to make the trains go round the loop faster and more frequently.
But if a passenger went round the loop the wrong way and changed direction at Elephant and Castle that would probably only take a dozen minutes or so.
Alternatively, I’m sure some New Routemasters would step up to the plate and provide service in the other direction between the stations.
Future Rolling Stock For The Bakerloo Line
This has a section in the Wikipedia entry for the Bakerloo Line, where this is said.
In the mid 2010s, TfL began a process of ordering new rolling stock to replace trains on the Piccadilly, Central, Bakerloo and Waterloo & City lines. A feasibility study into the new trains showed that new generation trains and re-signalling could increase capacity on the Bakerloo line by 25%, with 27 trains per hour.
In June 2018, the Siemens Mobility Inspiro design was selected.[ These trains would have an open gangway design, wider doorways, air conditioning and the ability to run automatically with a new signalling system.[35] TfL could only afford to order Piccadilly line trains at a cost of £1.5bn. However, the contract with Siemens includes an option for 40 trains for the Bakerloo line in the future. This would take place after the delivery of the Piccadilly line trains in the late 2020s.
A loop from Elephant and Castle with a train every 2¼ minutes, is not going to be short of passengers.
The Catford Interchange
Catford and Catford Bridge stations are not far apart.
In An Opportunity At Catford, I talked about what could be done to create a full step-free interchange, which could be connected to the Bakerloo Line loop underneath.
Would It Be Possible For The Bakerloo And Watford DC Lines To Use The Same Trains?
I answered this question in a post with the same name and this was my conclusion.
A common fleet used by the Bakerloo and Watford DC Line would appear to give advantages and it has been done successfully before.
But what the Bakerloo Line, the Watford DC Line, the Abbey Line and the Bakerloo Line Extension need is a good dose of holistic design.
The current trains on the Watford DC Line would be moved to the London Overground. They could be ideal for the future West London Orbital Railway.
Would There Be Advantages In Creating The West London Orbital Railway And Extending The Bakerloo Line As One Project?
Consider.
- The two lines will have an interchange station at Harlesden, which will need to be rebuilt.
- The current trains on the Watford DC Line could be cascaded to the West London Orbital Railway.
- As new trains are delivered to the Piccadilly Line, some of the current trains could be cascaded to the Bakerloo Line.
- Major work for the Bakerloo Link Extension includes a new tunnel, updated signalling and at least seven underground stations.
- Major work for the West London Orbital probably includes track refurbishment, new signalling and updated stations.
I believe that with good project management, that if these two lines were to be created together, this would be advantageous.
Conclusion
I have only outlined how the two projects might be done together.
But I am absolutely certain, that someone with full knowledge of both projects could build the two at a very affordable cost.
National Grid’s London Power Tunnels Breakthrough Completes £1 Billion Project’s Tunnelling Activity
The title of this post, is the same as that of this press release from National Grid.
These bullet points sum up the press release.
- Landmark moment for London Power Tunnels project as 140-tonne boring machine emerges at Eltham site following final subterranean journey
- Breakthrough marks the completion of 32.5km of tunnelling at depths of up to 60m under seven South London boroughs
- Due for completion in 2026, the project is rewiring the capital’s electricity network to boost resilience and future-proof supplies as demand grows
This is the seventh major tunnel in London in recent years to be completed.
- Elstree and St. John’s Wood Cable Tunnel – Electricity – 12 miles – 2005
- Lower Lea Valley Cable Tunnels – Electricity – 3.7 miles – 2008
- Lee Tunnel – Sewage – 4.3 miles – 2016
- New Cross and Finsbury Market Cable Tunnel – Electricity – 3.5 miles – 2017
- Northern Line Extension To Battersea – Rail – 2 miles – 2021
- Elizabeth Line – Rail – 26 miles – 2022
- Silvertown Tunnel – Road – 1 mile – Under Construction
- Thames Tideway Tunnel – Sewage – 16 miles – Under Construction
- Euston Tunnel – Rail – 4.5 miles – Under Construction
Note.
- It is likely that there will be CrossRail 2 and an extension to the Bakerloo Line.
- It certainly seems to have been a prudent decision to create Tunneling and Underground Construction Academy or TUCA to train more tunnellers, before the Elizabeth Line was built.
But I don’t believe that will be all the large tunnels that will be built in the capital.
Does The Elizabeth Line Offer Similar Benefits To The Bakerloo Line Extension?
This map shows the proposed Bakerloo Line extension.
Note.
- There are new or improved stations at Old Kent Road 1, Old Kent Road 2, New Cross Gate and Lewisham.
- New Cross Gate station has Overground and Southern services.
- Lewisham station has Docklands Light Railway and Southern services.
- The future potential option going South is to take over the Hayes Line.
Could we provide improvements along the line of the Bakerloo Line Extension in a less disruptive and more affordable manner?
I will look at the various stations.
New Cross Gate
New Cross Gate station is a fully-accessible station, as these pictures show.
The station, currently has the following services.
- Overground – Highbury & Islington and Crystal Palace – 4 tph
- Overground – Highbury & Islington and West Croydon – 4 tph
- Southern – London Bridge and Victoria via Sydenham – 2 tph
- Southern – London Bridge and Coulsdon Town via Sydenham – 2 tph
Note.
- tph is trains per hour.
- The Overground services provide an 8 tph service to the Elizabeth Line at Whitechapel station.
- TfL may well increase the frequency of the two Overground services to 5 tph.
I suspect that the easiest way between New Cross Gate and Harrow & Wealdstone will be with changes at Whitechapel and Paddington.
- New Cross Gate and Whitechapel – Overground – 13 minutes.
- Whitechapel and Paddington – Elizabeth Line – 14 minutes.
- Paddington Interchange – 15 minutes
- Paddington and Harrow & Wealdstone – Bakerloo Line – 29 minutes
This gives a total time of 71 minutes.
As Bakerloo Line trains go between Elephant & Castle and Harrow & Wealdstone, which is 24 stations and the journey takes 48 minutes, this gives a figure of two minutes per station.
- This seems to fit Irene’s Law, which I wrote about in Irene’s Law – Estimating Tube Journey Times.
- So it looks like a direct train on the extension would take 54 minutes.
- That time fits well with the 71 minutes via the Elizabeth Line if fifteen minutes is allowed for the walk at Paddington.
I will do the trip for real today.
Lewisham
There are two ways to get between Lewisham and the Elizabeth Line.
- Take the Dockland’s Light Railway to Canary Wharf. Estimated at 15 minutes.
- Take a train to Whitechapel, which needs a change of train at New Cross station. Estimated at 17 minutes minimum.
Neither are perfect.
I will try out these two trips soon.
Hayes
The Hayes Line is often talked about as the final destination of the Bakerloo Line.
In More Frequent Trains And A New Station For The London Overground, I put forward a plan for connecting the Hayes Line to the New Cross branch of the London Overground.
This map from carto.metro.free.fr shows the lines at New Cross station.
Note.
- The double-track East London Line, shown in orange, arrives from Surrey Quays station arrives in the North-Western corner of the map, becomes a single-track and then goes under the main lines before going into the bay platform D.
- Hayes Line services use Platform C going South and Platform A going North.
- Could the Overground going South divert into Platform C for Hayes?
- It would appear there used to be a line connecting Platform A to the East London Line of the Overground. Could this line be reinstated?
This Google Map shows the same area.
Note.
- The London Overground track is clearly visible.
- The needed connection certainly looks possible, without too much heroic engineering.
- Although, I suspect it could need digital signalling to get everything to work smoothly. But that will happen anyway!
The big advantage of this approach, is that all stations between Whitechapel and Hayes, would have a direct connection to the Elizabeth Line.
Hayes Line services would still continue to Victoria and Cannon Street, although the frequency might be reduced, depending on how many Overground services used the route.
Old Kent Road 1 And Old Kent Road 2
I think there are two ways to serve this important area.
- The first would be to run a high-frequency bus service between Elephant & Castle and the two stations at New Cross.
- I also suspect, it would be possible to have a short extension of the Bakerloo Line to a double-ended station at New Cross Gate and New Cross stations.
I went into the second way in More Frequent Trains And A New Station For The London Overground, where I came to these conclusions.
I am drawn to these two conclusions.
- The Bakerloo Line should be extended via two new Old Kent Road stations to a double-ended terminal station in New Cross with interchange to both New Cross Gate and New Cross stations.
- The New Cross branch of the London Overground should be extended through Lewisham to Orpington and/or Hayes.
My preferred destination for the London Overground service could be Hayes, as this would surely help to free up paths through Lewisham and London Bridge.
I also feel, that the scheme would be much more affordable if high-specification buses were used between Elephant & Castle and the two stations at New Cross.
Conclusion
There are certainly possibilities to create an alternative route, with the same objectives as the Bakerloo Line Extension.
Elizabeth Line – Paddington Bakerloo Line Link – 24th May 2022
These pictures show the Elizabeth Line end of the Paddington Bakerloo Line Link.
Note.
- This pedestrian tunnel connects the Elizabeth Line platforms and the Bakerloo Line platforms at Paddington station.
- The tunnel runs under the main pedestrian concourse of Paddington station from one side to the other.
- At the start of construction, I wrote about this tunnel in Paddington Bakerloo Line Link Project, London.
In Paddington Is Operational Again, I showed this image, that I found on the web.
I also said this.
It looks to be a very well thought out link.
- It is connected to the Crossrail station by escalators and lifts in the middle of the island platform at that station.
- The connection at the Bakerloo Line end, would appear to have lifts, stairs and escalators.
- Wll the lifts go direct to the surface as well?
- All routes seem to be direct to the central landing in the Bakerloo Line platforms.
- It may be a hundred and sixty five metres, but the design probably means most passengers will do it fairly fast.But I’m only speculating.
It will certainly be a very powerful interchange, as it will give a much needed connection to London’s least-developed Underground Line.
Having seen one end today, I agree with my statement in the previous post.
Walking The Paddington Bakerloo Line Link
On the 26th May, I walked the Paddington Bakerloo Line Link from the Elizabeth Line to the Bakerloo Line platforms.
Note.
- There are two escalators and a lift at both ends.
- It appears to be a level walk. Walking the contours around a hill is always easier.
- There are two seats at one third and two thirds distance. Do the seats have a mobile phone hotspot?
- The seats make each section fifty-five metres, as the tunnel is 165 metres long.
- According to this page on the BRE Group web site, it cost just £40 million.
- There is a handrail all the way in the middle of the link.
- Each direction, is wide enough for the largest pram, wheelchair or stretcher.
The Paddington Bakerloo Line Link has set a high gold standard for below ground pedestrian links.
- Both ends have escalators and lifts to provide step-free access between platforms and the tunnel.
- The tunnel is level.
- There is a handrail.
- The tunnel is wide.
- The tunnel has seats for those who need a rest.
- There are help points.
- Most importantly, at only £40 million it was not expensive.
Several other long pedestrian links in London, the UK, Europe and the world could borrow ideas from this link, which I would rate as the best I’ve ever seen.
Does The Paddington Bakerloo Line Link Make The Bakerloo Line A North-South Cross-Branch Of The Elizabeth Line?
The Elizabeth Line has these major North-South cross-branches.
- Jubilee Line at Bond Street station.
- Charing Cross Branch of the Northern Line at Tottenham Court Road station.
- Thameslink at Farringdon station.
- Bank Branch of the Northern Line at Moorgate station.
- East London Line of the Overground at Whitechapel station.
With the opening of the Paddington Bakerloo Line Link, another North-South cross-branch of the Elizabeth Line been added.
It could be argued that London has a new NW-SE high frequency link between Harrow & Wealdstone and Abbey Wood stations.
- Bakerloo Line – Harrow & Wealdstone and Paddington
- Paddington Bakerloo Line Link – 165 metre level step-free walk
- Elizabeth Line – Paddington and Abbey Wood via Whitechapel and Canary Wharf
The journey would appear to take 73 minutes from the National Rail journey planner, which allows fifteen minutes for the change at Paddington.
Is The Bakerloo Line Extension Still Needed?
So how long would it take for journeys from Harrow & Wealdstone to selected stations, that could be served by the Bakerloo Line Extension.
- New Cross Gate – 82 minutes – Change at Paddington and Whitechapel
- Lewisham – 93 minutes – Change at Paddington and Canary Wharf
- Hayes – 98 minutes – Change at Paddington, Whitechapel and New Cross
Note.
- Going South the Hayes train arrives at New Cross, just after the train from Dalston Junction has arrived.
- I also feel with some Northbound improvements on the Overground service times could be shortened.
- Locations on the Old Kent Road might be better served by frequent buses between Elephant & Castle and New Cross stations.
Improving the Overground and the fast link between Whitechapel and Paddington may allow the Bakerloo Line Extension to be kicked into the long grass.
Wi-Fi And 4G
This page on the TfL web site is entitled Everything You Need To Know About The Elizabeth Line, where this is said about Wi-Fi and 4G.
WiFi access within the tunnels will be introduced later in 2022. Customers on both trains and platforms will have access to 4G connectivity this year too.
Will passengers be more likely to take a route through London with Wi-Fi and 4G?
I very much feel they will and that this will draw more passengers to use the Elizabeth Line.
And once, they start to use it, they’ll keep with it, so long as they’re happy.
Conclusion
The Bakerloo Line Extension can be kicked into the long grass.
Bakerloo Line Extension | TfL Instructs Consultants To Work Up Tunnel Designs
The title of this post, is the same as that of this article on New Civil Engineer.
This project is the Mayor’s pet, as it is good for those that vote for him in South London.
But I believe that the West London Orbital Railway should have a higher priority as it serves an area that is in massive need of improvement in public transport and can be delivered quickly and for a lot less money.
TfL Moots Bakerloo Line To Hayes
The title of this post is the same as that of an article in the November 2019 Edition of Modern Railways.
There are various points in the article.
A More Direct Tunnel Between Lambeth North and Elephant & Castle Stations.
This map from carto.metro.free.fr shows the current routes between these two stations.
It appears that Transport for London (TfL) are proposing the following.
- A more direct route, between the two stations.
- A rebuilt Elephant & Castle station, handling both Underground lines.
- Step-free access between Bakerloo and Northern Lines.
- The station would be integrated with the new shopping centre.
Part of the plan appears to be to keep the current Bakerloo Line station open during construction.
Could the plan mean that the London Road depot will be closed?
This Google Map shows the London Road Depot and Lambeth North and Elephant & Castle stations.
Note.
- Lsmbeth North station is in the North West corner.
- Elephant & Castle station is in the South East corner.
- The London Road Depot is North of a point about half-way between the stations.
This second Google Map shows a close-up of the London Road Depot.
It appears to be quite a large site about a hundred metres along a long side.
Consider.
- It must be a development valuable site.
- It could be used as the site from which to dig the tunnels.
- The current Bakerloo Line skirts the site to the North.
So could the London Road Depot be closed and developed as the first part of the scheme, leaving a nice and handy tunnel in the basement?
- There already is a connection from the depot to Lambeth Noth station.
- It might even be possible to excavate much of the new tunnel by digging down, rather than by using a tunnel boring machine.
- Note that recently, the new Southbound tunnel of the Northern Line at Bank station has been dug using traditional methods.
- Moor House at Moorgate contains a ventilation and access shaft for Crossrail and was built some years rest of Crossrail.
Could this mean that the London Road Depot gets developed early in the project and London gets a lot of much-needed housing in a prime location?
But where do they stable the trains?
A Changed Tunnel Alignment Between Elephant & Castle and Lewisham Stations
The article also says this.
It (TfL) has also updated plans for the alignment of tunnels between Elephant & Castle and Lewisham, with the new direct tunnel alignment removing the need for one of the proposed tunnel shafts. A shaft would be builtbetween New Cross Gate and Lewisham, while plans for a shaft beyond Lewisham at the Wearside Road council depot site have been developed into proposals for train stabling.
This map from carto.metro.free.fr show the railway lines around Lewisham station.
Note.
- Current plans are for the Bakerloo Line to terminate under the current Lewisham station.
- There will be overrun tunnels under the Hayes Line, which runs through Ladywell station.
- These tunnels could at a future date be joined to the Hayes Line.
The Wearside Road depot is tucked into the South side of the junction, as this Google Map shows.
It looks to me, that TfL could be selling the site at London Road for development and using the Wearside Road depot, to replace the lost stabling.
It surely has advantages.
- It is further South.
- It could be easily connected to the overrun tunnel;s under the Hayes Line.
- It could be connected to the Hayes Line.
Could it be possible to build the new rail depot and put the council’s trucks on a second floor?
The picture shows Westbourne Park bus garage over stabling for Crossrail trains.
Hayes Line Takeover
TfL are now saying that extension to Hayes and Beckenham Junction stations offers the greatest benefit
Consider the following.
Development Of The Wearside Road Depot
Suppose the Wearside Road Depot were to be developed early.
- It could be developed as a double-deck depot, with trains underneath and the Council depot on top.
- Lewsisham is developing lots of tower blocks, so these would be an alternative topping.
- The rail depot could be built initially as a shell connected to the Hayes Line, with space for connections to the overrun tunnels at Lewisham station.
- It could be used as a transfer point for tunnelling spoil, if some digging towards Lewisham, were to be done from the site. Trains could access the site from Beckenham Junction.
It appears to me, that closing the London Road Depot is important in terms of financing, minimising disruption to passengers and construction, but the only way it can be done, is by providing an alternative depot. And the best way to do that is to connect the line in the first phase to the Hayes Line and use Wearside Road as a replacement depot.
Service Frequency
The current service frequency on the line is according to Wikipedia as follows.
The standard off-peak service is two trains per hour (tph) each way between London Charing Cross and Hayes, non-stop between London Bridge and Ladywell, and two tph between London Cannon Street and Hayes, calling at all stations via Lewisham.
So that is four trains per hour (tph), but only two tph call at Lewisham.
Currently, the Bakerloo Line frequency at Elephant & Castle station is 20-21 tph. As it appears there is no terminal platforms on the extension except for Hayes and Beckenham Junction stations, I would assume that their three platforms will be able to handle the full service.
The single platform at Beckenham Junction can probably handle six tph, which would leave the rest to be handled in the two platforms at Hayes station.
As the Victoria Line handles thirty-six tph with modern signally, I see no reason, why the Bakerloo Line wouldn’t be able to handle 30 tph with ultra-modern signalling.
Development Of An Interchange At Catford
In An Opportunity At Catford, I talked about the possibilities of developing an improved interchange between Catford and Catford Bridge stations, which are no more than a hundred metres apart. |Although, it is rather up and down.
The map from carto.metre.free.fr shows the layout of lines at the two stations.
Note that Catford Bridge station is on the Hayes Line and Catford station is on the Catford Loop Line.
It strikes me that there is scope for some advanced thinking, if an interchange is to be created between the two stations.
Could it be arranged that as part of the conversion of the Hayes Line to the Bakerloo Line, that the tracks be reorganised with the Bakerloo Lines on the outside of a single four-platform station, that would enable cross-platform interchange between the two lines?
Unfortunately, No! But it could have been safeguarded some years ago, but now there’s new housing in the way!
However, I do think there are other ways of making this interchange step-free and reasonably quick.
The Hayes And City Problem
Wikipedia says this about the takeover of the Hayes Line by the Bakerloo Line.
The driving force for this change is that Network Rail would like the train paths freed up for services mainly from the South Eastern Main Line. Transport for London prefer this route due to its being largely self-contained after Lewisham.
Currently, Off Peak services from Hayes station are as follows.
- Two trains per hour (tph) to Cannon Street
- Two tph to Charring Cross
These two services mean that there are also.
- Two tph to Lewisham
- Four tph to London Bridge
- Two tph to Waterloo East.;
There are also extra services in the Peak.
Will there be a problem for commuters to get between the Hayes Line and the City of London and Canary Wharf?
There will also be no First Class on the trains.
In practice Canary Wharf could be the easier, as it will just mean using the Docklands Light Railway from Lewisham.
This could also be quickest way to the City!
I think we we shall be hearing from some restless natives!
The Use Of
More Frequent Trains And A New Station For The London Overground
The title of this post, is the same as that of this article on IanVisits.
This is said.
In a statement, the government agreed to requests for £80.8 million from the GLA to support transport upgrades so that 14,000 homes can be built along the East London Line.
Upgrades include.
- New Bermondsey station, which was originally to be called Surrey Canal Road, will be built.
- A second entrance will be built at Surrey Quays station.
- Frequency between Dalston Junction and Clapham Junction stations will be increased from four trains per hour (tph) to six tph.
- Frequency between Highbury & Islington and Crystal Palace stations will be increased from four tph to six tph.
The frequency upgrades will mean twenty tph between Dalston Junction and Surrey Quays stations, or a train every three minutes as opposed to the current three minutes and forty-five seconds.
A few thoughts follow.
Surrey Quays Station Upgrade
Ian’s article says this about the new entrance at Surrey Quays station.
The very cramped Surrey Quays station gets a second entrance, which will run under the main road and be based on the north side, where the shopping centre car park is today. That avoids crossing two busy roads, which can take some time if you’re waiting for the lights to change.
This Google Map shows the station and the car park of the Shopping Centre.
These are my pictures, taken at and around the station.
Traffic is bad and the subway suggested by Ian’s wording will be very welcome.
Collateral Benefits At New Cross Gate
New Cross Gate station will be one of several stations along the East London Line to see benefits in service frequency and quality.
The train frequency on East London Line services will rise from eight tph to ten tph.
But this is not all that should or could happen.
- The service between Highbury & Islington and West Croydon stations could rise from four tph to six tph.
- This would mean that New Cross Gate would have a twelve tph service to and from Whitechapel, which in a year or so, will have Crossrail connections to Canary Wharf, Bond Street, Paddington and Heathrow.
- Southeastern should be getting new higher-capacity, higher-performance and possibly longer trains to replace their elderly trains into London Bridge.
- Charing Cross station is redeveloped into a higher-capacity, cross-river station, to allow more trains.
- Digital signalling, as used on Thameslink will be extended to cover all trains through New Cross and New Cross Gate.
- The Docklands Light Railway to Lewisham will get new and higher-capacity trains.
- Southeastern Metro services could go to the London Overground.
Could this all mean that the East London Line, Southeastern and Crossrail will more than hold the fort until it is decided to build the Bakerloo Line Extension?
The Bakerloo Line Extension
This map from TfL shows the route of the Bakerloo Line Extension.
If and when the Bakerloo Line Extension is built, New Cross Gate will surely become a major transport hub.
If you look at the current and proposed stations on the Southern section of an extended Bakerloo Line, you can say the following.
- Paddington will get a step-free pedestrian link between Crossrail and the Bakerloo Line.
- Charing Cross will benefit from more Southeastern Metro services into the main line station.
- Waterloo will benefit from more Southeastern Metro services through the attached Waterloo East station.
- Elephant & Castle station will benefit from more Thameslink services through the attached main line station.
- New Cross Gate will benefit from more Southeastern Metro and East London Line services through the station.
- Lewisham will benefit from more Southeastern Metro services through the station.
But there are no interim benefits for the blue-mauve area, that will be served by the proposed Old Kent Road 1 and Old Kent Road 2 stations.
In addition, is there a need to add capacity between the New Cross area and Lewisham? Southeastern improvements will help, but the Bakerloo Line Extension will do a lot more!
Except for these two stations, is there a reason to build an extension to the Bakerloo Line, as train services between Charing Cross, Waterloo East and New Cross and Lewisham will be significantly increased in frequency, reach and quality?
A Bakerloo Line Extension Redesign
Whatever happens to the Bakerloo Line, the following should be done.
- New walk-through trains running at a higher-frequency on the current route.
- Major access improvements and better connection to main line services at Elephant & Castle, Waterloo East, Charing Cross and Willesden Junction stations.
- A radical reorganisation North of Queen’s Park station, in conjunction with the Watford DC Line and the proposed West London Orbital Railway.
This would improve the current line, but it would do nothing for those living where the extension will go!
So why not do what is happening to the Northern Line at Battersea and create a short extension to the Bakerloo Line that serves the areas that need it and one that can be extended in the future?
- You could argue, that the extension to Lewisham is short and it could be extended to Hayes and other places.
- I also think, that the route goes via New Cross Gate, as that is one of the few sites in the area, from where a large tunnel could be built.
Ideally, what could be needed is a high-capacity public transport link from Elephant & Castle and Greenwich and/or Lewisham via the Old Kent Road, New Cross Gate and New Cross.
The Germans, the Dutch and others wouldn’t mess about and would run trams along the road, but that would go down with the locals like a lead West London Tram.
So it looks like some form of extension of the Bakerloo Line is the only way to go.
Consider.
- Two-platform terminal stations at Brixton and Walthamstow Central handle up to thirty-six tph on the Victoria Line.
- New Cross Gate and New Cross stations are about five hundred metres apart.
- Double-ended stations like Knightsbridge on the Piccadilly Line and Kings Cross on the Victoria Line work very well.
I would look at building a double-ended Bakerloo Line station deep underneath New Cross Road.
- It would be connected by escalators and lifts to the existing stations at New Cross Gate in the West and New Cross in the East.
- Provision would be made to extend the line further to either Greenwich or Lewisham.
- New Cross and Lewisham already have a high-frequency connection of six tph.
- The whole extension could be built from the single tunnelling location on the Sainsbury’s site at New Cross Gate.
- There would be no necessity for any works at Lewisham station.
It would probably need more services to be run between New Cross and Lewisham.
Current Services Between New Cross And Lewisham
Southeastern currently runs these services between New Cross and Lewisham.
- London Cannon Street and Slade Green via Sidcup
- London Cannon Street and Orpington via Grove Park
- London Cannon Street and Hayes
All services are two tph.
Extending The East London Line Service South From New Cross
New Cross is served by the only short service on the London Overground; the four tph between Dalston Junction and New Cross stations.
So could this East London Line service be extended South to serve Lewisham to increase services between New Cross and Lewisham?
This map from carto.metro.free.fr shows the lines at New Cross station.
Note how the double-track East London Line, shown in orange, arrives from Surrey Quays station arrives in the North-Western corner of the map, becomes a single-track and then goes under the main lines before going into the bay platform D.
This Google Map shows the same area.
The London Overground track is clearly visible.
Could extra track be added, to enable the following?
- Southbound trains could join the main line and stop in Platform C
- Northbound trains could leave the main line after stopping in Platform A and go towards Surrey Quays station.
If this is possible, then it would give a four tph service between Dalston Junction and Lewisham, with an important stop at Whitechapel to connect to Crossrail.
Lewisham doesn’t have the space for a terminal platform, but there would appear two possible terminals South of Lewisham.
- Hayes – Journey time to and from Dalston Junction would take around 53 minutes.
- Orpington – Journey time to and from Dalston Junction would take around 50 minutes.
Both stations would make ideal terminals.
- They have bay platforms for terminating the trains.
- Round trips would be a convenient two hours.
- Eight trains would be needed for the service.
- New Cross will have the same four tph to and from Dalston Junction as it does now!
- Lewisham and Dalston Junction would have a four tph service that would take 27 minutes.
The service could even be split with two tph to each terminal.
Will the Extended Services Need To Replace Other Services?
Currently Hayes has these current Off Peak services.
- Two tph to Cannon Street via London Bridge
- Two tph to Charing Cross via London Bridge
I would expect that if digital signalling is applied through the area, that the extra services could be added to Hayes and Orpington as decided.
An Improved Hayes Line
Transport for London and various commentators always assume that the Bakerloo Line will eventually take over the Hayes Line.
This will or could mean the following.
- Passengers used to a full-size train looking out on the countryside and back gardens through big windows, will have to get used to a more restricted view.
- Platforms on the Hayes Line will need to be rebuilt, so that two different size of train will be step-free between train and platform.
- The service could be slower.
- The ability to walk through an increasingly pedestrianised Central London to and from Cannon Street, Charing Cross and London Bridge will be lost.
- Loss of First Class seats. which will happen anyway!
I think that passengers could want to stick with the current service.
The only reason to allow the Bakerloo Line Extension to take over the Hayes Line, is that it would allow another four tph to run between Lewisham and London Bridge. But digital signalling could give the same benefit!
But what if the Overground muscled in?
The Hayes Line could take up to four tph between Dalston Junction and Hayes, via Lewisham and New Cross, which would give these benefits.
- Increased capacity on the Hayes Line.
- An excellent connection to Crossrail, which would give a better connection to the West End, Liverpool Street and Heathrow.
- Better connection to the Eastern side of the City of London and Canary Wharf.
- It could free up four tph between New Cross and London Bridge.
- Same-platform interchange between Southeastern and East London Line services at Lewisham and New Cross.
There would need to be these changes to the infrastructure.
- A new track layout at New Cross.
- Installation of digital signalling.
The latter will happen anyway.
Times To And From Crossrail
Times to and from Whitechapel, with its Crossrail connection are.
- Lewisham – 17 minutes
- Hayes – 44 minutes
- Orpington – 41 minutes
The current service between Orpington and Farrington, which also will connect to Crossrail, takes 52 minutes.
Penge Interchange
Although, this has not been funded, I think that this new interchange could be very much in Transport for London’s plans.
I discuss the possible Penge Interchange station in Penge Interchange.
It’s certainly something to watch out for, as it could improve connectivity by a large amount.
The View From The Dalston Omnibus
For decades, Dalston had a terrible reputation and then came the Overground, which changed everything.
There are now these combined devices from the two Dalston stations.
- Eight tph to Stratford
- Four tph to Richmond via Willesden Junction
- Four tph to Clapham Junction via Willesden Junction
- Four tph to Clapham Junction via Surrey Quays
- Four tph to Crystal Palace via Surrey Quays
- Four tph to New Cross via Surrey Quays
- Four tph to West Croydon via Surrey Quays
There is also a useful eight tph connecting service between Dalston Junction and Highbury & Islington.
In the next couple of years, these developments should happen.
- Services on the East London Line will be increased with an extra two tph to Clapham Junction and Crystal Palace.
- Services on the North London Line will be increased to cope with overcrowding. As the Dalston Junction and Highbury & Islington connecting service will be going to ten tph, it would seem logical that the North London Line service should match this frequency.
- Crossrail will open and Dalston will have a twenty tph connection to its services at Whitechapel.
Dalston needs better connections to either main line terminal stations or their interchanges a few miles out.
Currently, Dalston has very useful connections to the following main interchanges.
- Stratford for the Great Eastern Main Line.
- Clapham Junction for the South Western Railway and Southern services.
- Richmond for Windsor and Reading services.
- Whitechapel will provide a link to Crossrail.
- In addition the planned update at Norwood Junction will give better connection to services to Gatwick, Brighton and other services to the South of Croydon.
Better interchanges are needed with services to the North and the South East of London.
Extending the Dalston Junction and New Cross service to Hayes or Orpington via Lewisham could greater improve the train service from Dalston, by providing interchange to services fanning out into and beyond South East London.
Conclusion
I am drawn to these two conclusions.
- The Bakerloo Line should be extended via two new Old Kent Road stations to a double-ended terminal station in New Cross with interchange to both New Cross Gate and New Cross stations.
- The New Cross branch of the London Overground should be extended through Lewisham to Orpington and/or Hayes.
My preferred destination for the London Overground service could be Hayes, as this would surely help to free up paths through Lewisham and London Bridge.
Towers At Lewisham Station – 2nd February 2019
Lewisham station is becoming increasingly surrounded by tower blocks.
With the Bakerloo Line Extension planned to reach the new station around 2030, surely it is time to rebuild the station with more blocks over the tracks.
Connecting The Bakerloo Line Extension At Lewisham To The North Kent And Bexleyheath Line
This map from carto.metro.free.fr shows the lines in the area of Lewisham station.
Note.
- The multi-track line going North-West to South-East is the South Eastern Main Line .
- The double-track line going South-West to North-East is the Hayes Line.
- The double-track going East are the North Kent & Bexleyheath Lines
- I think it is quite likely that the overrun tunnels for the Bakerloo Line Extension will be under the Hayes Line.
The North Kent & Bexleyheath platforms are as follows.
- Platform 3 is the Up platform
- Platform 4 is the Down platform
Services running on the lines include.
- Dartford to London via Platform 3
- Slade Green to London via Platform 3
- London to Dartford via Platform 4
- London to Slade Green via Platform 4
In Connecting The Bakerloo Line Extension At Lewisham To The Hayes Line, I showed that it would be reasonably easy to connect the overrun tunnels for the Bakerloo Line to the Hayes Line.
So could the Bakerloo Line Extension be connected to the North Kent and Bexleyheath Lines?
If the Lewisham Underground station was deep under the current station, it might be possible to create a junction, which would enable the Underground trains to go in the direction of both the Hayes and Bexleyheath Lines.
But having been on a train between Lewisham and Bexleyheath stations, it would appear that there is little space for the Bakerloo Line to emerge from the ground and join the surface railway.
These pictures show the viaduct and other structures that support Platforms 1 and 2 at Lewisham station.
The pictures seem to confirm that linking to a line under Lewisham station would be extremely difficult and very expensive, and would require a long closure of the North Kent and Bexleyheath Lines through Lewsiham.
If this is the case, this must mean that the Hayes Line is the only place, where the Bakerloo Line can go.
The Anonymous Widower 