250,000 Seats A Day On The WCML?
The title of this post, is the same as that of this article on Rail Engineer.
These are the first three paragraphs.
In the Parliamentary debate on the cancellation of HS2 phase 2, Transport Minister Mark Harper claimed that what remains of HS2 will deliver “a massive increase in capacity to the West Coast Main Line (WCML)” by providing 250,000 seats a day. This figure was subsequently repeated by the Prime Minister and Rail Minister who advised that it applies “across the primary long-distance operator on the West Coast.”
Yet without HS2 phase 2a, there is to be no WCML capacity increase north of Lichfield. Furthermore, with no HS2 station in Manchester it will not be possible to run the planned two-unit 400-metre HS2 trains to the city. Instead, there can only be single 200-metre unit HS2 trains which are shorter than the current 265-metre Pendolino trains.
Furthermore, 250,000 seats a day is equivalent to running 17 x 605-seat Pendolinos an hour, 24 hours a day. This is clearly not credible.
Note.
- The writer’s assumptions about Manchester are correct.
- Liverpool Lime Street is already is already HS2-ready for trains between Crewe and London, after the recent upgrade.
- Liverpool Lime Street will certainly be able to take two London trains per hour (tph), which can only be single 200-metre unit HS2 trains.
- Liverpool Lime Street may be able to take a third London train per hour.
These are my thoughts.
Current Services
Current services include.
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Blackpool North via Birmingham New Street – 2 trains per day (tpd)
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Glasgow Central via Birmingham New Street – 5 tpd
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Edinburgh Waverley via Birmingham New Street – 7 tpd
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Birmingham New Street – 1 tph
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Holyhead – 10 tpd
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street – 1 tph – Increasing to 2 tph.
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly via Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield and Stockport – 1 tph
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly via Stoke-on-Trent and Stockport – 1 tph
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly via Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport – 1 tph
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Glasgow Central – 1 tph.
- West Midlands Trains – London and Birmingham New Street – 2 tph
- West Midlands Trains – London and Crewe – 1 tph
- West Midlands Trains – Birmingham New Street and Liverpool Lime Street – 1 tph
It looks like there are eight Avanti West Coast tph and two West Midlands Trains tph between Stafford and Crewe.
High Speed Two Services
This diagram shows High Speed Two services, as they were originally envisaged before Phase 2 was discontinued.
Note.
- Trains to the left of the vertical black line are Phase 1 and those to the right are Phase 2.
- Full-Size trains are shown in blue.
- Classic-Compatible trains are shown in yellow.
- The dotted circles are where trains split and join.
- In the red boxes routes alternate every hour.
- Was Lancaster chosen as it’s close to the new Eden Project Morecambe?
Click on the diagram to enlarge it.
The Author’s Assumption
The author has made these assumptions.
- Current West Coast Main Line capacity North of Lichfield; Avanti West Coast – 8 tph, West Midlands – 1 tph and freight trains – 4 tph
- HS2 offers no extra capacity North of Lichfield.
- Max capacity ; Old Oak Common – 8 tph and London Euston – 10 tph.
- 400-metre long trains North of Birmingham ; Min – 1 tph to Edinburgh/Glasgow
- 400-metre long trains North of Birmingham ; Max – plus 3 tph to Liverpool/Manchester
- Trains operate a maximum of 14 hours per day.
I would add.
- All pairs of 200-metre long trains split and join at Crewe.
- Birmingham Curzon Street has seven platforms.
- Lancaster and Macclesfield have long bay platforms, that can handle 200-metre trains
- Liverpool Lime Street and Manchester Piccadilly have two platforms, that can handle 200-metre trains.
- I suspect
- Liverpool Lime Street and Manchester Piccadilly could both handle four 200-metre trains tph hour – Three for London and one for Birmingham.
There is a surprising amount of capacity in the North.
The Author’s Minimum Plan For HS1 – Phase 1
I think his minimum plan is as follows.
- Old Oak Common and Birmingham Curzon Street – 400-metre long trains – 3 tph
- Old Oak Common and Liverpool Lime Street/Lancaster – 400-metre long trains – 1 tph – Splits at Crewe.
- Old Oak Common and Liverpool Lime Street – 200-metre long trains – 1 tph
- Old Oak Common and Macclesfield via Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent – 200-metre long trains – 1 tph
- Old Oak Common and Manchester Piccadilly – 200-metre long trains – 2 tph
- Old Oak Common and Edinburgh Waverley/Glasgow Central – 400-metre long trains – 1 tph – Splits at Crewe.
Note.
- 400-metre long trains are a pair of 200-metre long trains, that can split and join.
- This fulfils all the requirements of the original HS2 timetable for Phase 1.
- The total is nine tph and Old Oak Common can only handle 8 tph.
- Perhaps, the Liverpool Lime Street service could be a Liverpool Lime Street/Manchester Piccadilly service, that splits at Crewe?
I think it could work with London having the following services.
- Birmingham Curzon Street – 400-metre long trains – 3 tph
- Birmingham International – 400-metre long trains – 4 tph
- Carlisle – 200-metre long trains – 1 tph
- Crewe – 400-metre long trains – 3 tph
- Edinburgh Waverley – 200-metre long trains – 1 tph
- Glasgow Central – 200-metre long trains – 1 tph
- Lancaster – 200 metre long trains – 1 tph
- Liverpool Lime Street – 200-metre long trains – 2 tph
- Macclesfield – 200-metre long trains – 1 tph
- Manchester Piccadilly – 200-metre long trains – 2/3 tph
- Preston – 200-metre long trains – 2 tph
- Stafford – 200-metre long trains – 1 tph
- Stoke-on-Trent – 200-metre long trains – 1 tph
- Warrington Bank Quay – 200-metre long trains – 1 tph
- Wigan North Western – 200-metre long trains – 1 tph
Services care as good or better than the current services.
The Author’s Maximum Plan For HS1 – Phase 1
I think his maximum plan is as follows.
- London Euston and Birmingham Curzon Street – 400-metre long trains – 3 tph
- London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street/Lancaster – 400-metre long trains – 1 tph – Splits at Crewe.
- London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street/Manchester Piccadilly – 400-metre long trains – 1 tph – Splits at Crewe.
- London Euston and Macclesfield via Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent – 200-metre long trains – 1 tph
- London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly – 200-metre long trains – 2 tph
- London Euston and Edinburgh Waverley/Glasgow Central – 400-metre long trains – 1 tph – Splits at Crewe.
Note.
- 400-metre long trains are a pair of 200-metre long trains, that can split and join.
- This fulfils all the requirements of the original HS2 timetable for Phase 1.
- That is nine tph and London Euston can handle 10 tph.
- Perhaps, a tenth train could serve Edinburgh Waverley/Glasgow Central with a split at Crewe.
It should work.
Could High Speed Birmingham Curzon Street and Liverpool Lime Street And Manchester Piccadilly Services Be Provided With A Reverse At Birmingham Curzon Street?
A train would take this route.
- A 400 metre long train would leave London and go to Birmingham Curzon Street.
- At Birmingham Curzon Street the train would reverse and travel to Crewe.
- At Crewe the train would split with separate trains going to Liverpool Lime Street and Manchester Piccadilly.
Note.
- Automation could be used extensively to do the joining and splitting.
- The train would have an onboard team of drivers, so all joins, reverses and splits are performed as fast as possible.
- A local service could be paired with each train, so that intermediate stations on the Liverpool and Manchester branches had excellent connections to Birmingham and the South.
Suppose the maximum plan is now as follows.
- London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street/Manchester Piccadilly via Birmingham Curzon Street – 400 metre long trains – 3 tph – Reverses at Birmingham Curzon Street – Splits at Crewe.
- London Euston and Birmingham Curzon Street – 400 metre long trains – 1 tph
- London Euston and Lancaster – 200 metre long trains – 1 tph
- London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street – 200 metre long trains – 1 tph
- London Euston and Macclesfield via Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent – 200 metre long trains – 1 tph
- London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly – 200 metre long trains – 1 tph
- London Euston and Edinburgh Waverley/Glasgow Central – 400 metre long trains – 2 tph – Splits at Crewe.
Note.
- Birmingham Curzon Street, Liverpool Lime Street and Manchester Piccadilly would all get four tph to and from London.
- Birmingham Curzon Street, Liverpool Lime Street and Manchester Piccadilly would all get one tph to and from London, that could be non-stop and didn’t join, reverse or split.
- Birmingham Curzon Street and Liverpool Lime Street would have a three tph service.
- Birmingham Curzon Street and Manchester Piccadilly would have a three tph service.
- Lancaster, Edinburgh Waverley, Glasgow Central and other stations would get the originally-promised service to and from London.
- That is ten tph to and from London Euston and the station can handle that number of trains.
It should work.
Could High Speed Birmingham Curzon Street and Edinburgh Waverley and Glasgow Central Services Be Provided With A Reverse At Birmingham Curzon Street?
In the previous section, I showed how, three tph between London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street/Manchester Piccadilly could be provided with a reverse at Birmingham Curzon Street.
So could the fourth train between London and Birmingham Curzon Street take this route?
- A 400 metre long train would leave London and go to Birmingham Curzon Street.
- At Birmingham Curzon Street the train would reverse and travel to Crewe, or another station, where the split can be performed.
- The train would split with separate trains going to Edinburgh Waverley and Glasgow Central.
Note.
- They would use the current paths used by Avanti West Coast Birmingham and Scotland services along the West Coast Main Line.
- This would give a third train to both Edinburgh Waverley and Glasgow Central.
It certainly appears that by using a reverse at Birmingham Curzon Street, more capacity can be created on the West Coast Main Line/HS2 route.
Could High Speed Two Serve North Wales?
It finally looks like the North Wales Coast Lines will finally be electrified.
- Would this allow a 200 metre long train to run all the way to Holyhead for the boats to Ireland?
- There could be a join and split at Crewe with another train.
- Chester would also be served by HS2.
It would create a zero-carbon route to Ireland.
What Would Be The Daily Number Of Passengers Carried?
The maximum plan could now be as follows.
- London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street/Manchester Piccadilly via Birmingham Curzon Street – 400 metre long trains – 3 tph – Splits at Crewe.
- London Euston and Edinburgh Waverley/Glasgow Central via Birmingham Curzon Street – 400 metre long trains – 1 tph – Splits at Crewe.
- London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street/Lancaster – 400 metre long trains – 1 tph – Splits at Crewe.
- London Euston and Macclesfield via Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent – 200 metre long trains – 1 tph
- London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly/Holyhead – 400 metre long trains – 1 tph – Splits at Crewe.
- London Euston and Edinburgh Waverley/Glasgow Central – 400 metre long trains – 2 tph – Splits at Crewe.
Note.
- There are eight 400 metre long trains and one 200 metre long trains in both directions.
- A 200 metre long train hold 550 passengers.
- There are seventeen 200 metre long tph in both directions.
- Trains operate a maximum of 14 hours per day.
The number of passengers per day is 261,800.
Could Open Access Operators Use High Speed Two?
In Mayors Propose New Staffordshire To Manchester Rail Line, I suggested the Grand Union Trains might like to run their service between London Euston and Stirling via High Speed Two.
But would this be a feasible idea?
These are my thoughts.
What Is An Open Access Operator?
The Wikipedia entry for Open-Access Operator, provide this answer.
In rail transport, an open-access operator is an operator that takes full commercial risk, running on infrastructure owned by a third party and buying paths on a chosen route and, in countries where rail services run under franchises, are not subject to franchising.
It then lists fifty-four operators in fifteen countries.
As the companies, who provide the services take full commercial risk and don’t get a subsidy from the taxpayer, I don’t see why, that providing, the operator can get the paths, they should be allowed to operate.
If they fail, then that’s the operator’s problem.
Are Any Paths Available On High Speed Two?
These are High Speed Two services as originally planned.
Since the Eastern Leg was cancelled, the following has happened.
- There are only eleven trains per hour (tph) between London Euston and Birmingham Interchange.
- There are only ten tph between Birmingham and Crewe.
- There is one tph between Birmingham and Macclesfield via Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent.
Note.
The Trent Valley Line section between Stafford and Crewe is 24.3 miles.
The Trent Valley Line between Handsacre Junction and Crewe is nearly all four tracks.
Currently, this section carries these fast trains.
- Avanti West Coast – 1 tph – London Euston to Blackpool North, Edinburgh or Glasgow via Birmingham New Street.
- Avanti West Coast – 1 tph – London Euston to North Wales
- Avanti West Coast – 1 tph – London Euston to Liverpool Lime Street
- Avanti West Coast – 2 tph – London Euston to Manchester Piccadilly
- Avanti West Coast – 1 tph – London Euston to Scotland
- West Midlands Trains – 1 tph – London Euston to Crewe.
- West Midlands Trains – 1 tph – Stafford to Crewe.
- West Midlands Trains – 1 tph – Birmingham New Street to Liverpool Lime Street.
This totals nine tph and will be 10 tph, when a second London Euston to Liverpool Lime Street is added.
When High Speed Two opens between London Euston and Birmingham Curzon and Handsacre Junction, trains between London Euston and Liverpool, Manchester, the North and Scotland will switch to the Trent Valley Line at Handsacre Junction.
The Trent Valley Line section between Stafford and Crewe will carry these fast trains.
- Avanti West Coast – 1 tph – London Euston to North Wales
- High Speed Two – 2 tph – London Euston to Liverpool Lime Street
- High Speed Two – 3 tph – London Euston to Manchester Piccadilly
- High Speed Two – 2 tph – London Euston to Scotland
- High Speed Two – 1 tph – Birmingham Curzon Street to Scotland
- High Speed Two – 2 tph – Birmingham Curzon Street to Manchester Piccadilly
- West Midlands Trains – 1 tph – London Euston to Crewe.
- West Midlands Trains – 1 tph – Stafford to Crewe.
- West Midlands Trains – 1 tph – Birmingham New Street to Liverpool Lime Street
Note.
- This totals to ten tph for High Speed Two, 1 tph for Avanti West Coast and the tph for West Midlands Trains.
- There is no service to Blackpool.
- It looks to me that the London Euston to North Wales should, as soon as the North Wales Coast Line is electrified become a High Speed Two service.
- Should the Birmingham New Street to Liverpool Lime Street service be replaced with a High Speed Two from Birmingham Curzon Street to Liverpool Lime Street?
There is plenty of paths South of Handsacre Junction on High Speed Two to accommodate a few services to Blackpool and an open access operator like Grand Union Trains, who have been given permission to run a service to Stirling.
Conclusion
My rough calculation says that open access services could be fitted in on the latest variant of High Speed Two.
In Mayors Propose New Staffordshire To Manchester Rail Line, the two Andies; Burnham and Street proposed that the Handsacre Junction and Manchester Airport section of High Speed Two should be built.
If this should happen, then it would open up several possibilities for open access services for the North.
Mayors Propose New Staffordshire To Manchester Rail Line
The title of this post, is the same as that of this article on Greater Birmingham Chambers of Commerce.
These five paragraphs introduce the article.
The mayors of the West Midlands and Greater Manchester have set out proposals for a new railway line between Staffordshire and Manchester Airport in a bid to improve connections to the north.
Work commission by West Midlands mayor Andy Street and Greater Manchester mayor Andy Burnham has concluded the new line is the preferred option to tackle congestion on the West Coast Mainline, following the government’s decision to curtail HS2 beyond Birmingham.
A private sector group – chaired by infrastructure expert Sir David Higgins – had been looking at three potential options to improve connectivity between Birmingham and Manchester.
The options included undertaking significant engineering upgrades to the West Coast Main Line, building bypasses at the pinch points on the line and building a new railway between Handsacre and Manchester Airport.
The group, convened by the mayors, is led by global engineering firm Arup with input from over 60 partners from six other firms – Arcadis, Addleshaw Goddard, EY, Dragados, Mace and Skanska.
This paragraph gives the conclusion.
The group has provisionally concluded that a new line – running approximately 70 miles between HS2 at Handsacre and Northern Powerhouse Rail at High Legh – is likely to offer the best combination of costs and benefits.
It looks to me, that this professional approach has led to a sensible answer.
I will now look at the route.
This Open Railway Map shows the tracks to the South of Handsacre.
Note.
- The blue arrow in the North-West corner of the map, indicates the location of the former Armitage station, which had the village of Handsacre to its North-East.
- The red line through Armitage station is the Trent Valley Line.
- Lichfield Trent Valley station is at the bottom of the map.
- The line drawn with large dashes from the South-East corner of the map is the proposed line of High Speed Two. Red indicates under construction and black indicates proposed.
High Speed Two splits into two.
One branch goes North-West to join the Trent Valley Line, whilst the other just stops after about a kilometre.
- All trains for Liverpool, Manchester, North Wales, The North and Scotland will take the Trent Valley Line, when High Speed Two opens.
- Trains for Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield and some to Manchester will leave the Trent Valley Line at Colwich Junction.
- All other trains, will take the same route as now and proceed to Crewe via Stafford.
The red dotted line leading from the cancelled branch of High Speed Two shows where the original fast line to Crewe was planned to go.
This Open Railway Map shows the tracks around Crewe.
Note.
- Crewe is the important junction station towards the North-West corner of the map.
- The orange line going South is the West Coast Main Line to The South and London.
- The red dotted line running along the West side of the West Coast Main Line was the proposed route of High Speed Two from Birmingham, London and the South.
This Open Railway Map shows the originally proposed direct route of High Speed Two between Crewe and Handsacre.
Note.
- Crewe is in the North-West corner of the map.
- The blue arrow in the South-East corner of the map, indicates the location of the former Armitage station, which had the village of Handsacre to its North-East.
- The dotted red line was the originally proposed route of High Speed Two.
I feel that this route between Handsacre and Crewe has advantages if it were to be chosen as part of a route between Handsacre and Northern Powerhouse Rail, as recommended by the Mayors and their consultants.
- The route seems to stay well clear of large conurbations.
- A lot of the design work has been at least started and major problems will be known.
- Crewe is the only station on the route, which will need to be upgraded.
- Services to Liverpool, Manchester, North Wales, The North and Scotland will be speeded up.
- With Crewe, Liverpool and North Wales, times could be as High Speed Two promised in the first place.
I feel that building the Handsacre and Crewe section, as originally envisaged, will score high in a benefit/cost analysis
This OpenRailwayMap shows the originally proposed route of High Speed Two between Crewe and Manchester Airport.
Note.
- Crewe is towards the South-West corner of the map.
- Manchester Airport is in the North-East corner of the map.
- The red line going North from Crewe is the West Coast Main Line.
- The dotted red line was the originally proposed route of High Speed Two, between the West Coast Main Line and Manchester Airport.
Northern Powerhouse Rail will go West from Manchester Airport towards Warrington and Liverpool and will join with High Speed Two at a junction at High Legh.
Northern Powerhouse Rail is currently being planned, but surely, if High Speed Two and Northern Powerhouse Rail share a line from High Legh to Manchester Airport and Manchester Piccadilly, this will be a more affordable project.
Services To Crewe
In Could The High Speed Two Link Between Lichfield And Crewe Still Be Built?, which I wrote after much of High Speed Two was chopped in 2023, I said this.
Currently, Avanti West Coast trains take around one hour and thirty minutes between London and Crewe.
The Wikipedia entry for High Speed Two gives these times between London and Crewe.
- Fastest time before High Speed Two – one hour and thirty minutes.
- Time after Phase 2a of High Speed Two opens – fifty-six minutes.
Note.
- That is a time saving of thirty-four minutes.
- High Speed Two Trains will use the direct line between Lichfield and Crewe.
- High Speed Two will also add eighteen tph to the capacity between London and Crewe.
This would seem to mean that any trains going to or through Crewe will be thirty-four minutes faster, if they use High Speed Two between London and Crewe.
If the Handsacre and Crewe direct line is built, it looks like London and Crewe will be the full High Speed Two time of 56 minutes.
Services To Liverpool
Consider.
- Liverpool Lime Street was originally planned to get two trains per hour (tph) to and from London using High Speed Two.
- The approaches into Liverpool were improved a few years ago.
- No more improvements are planned between Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street stations.
- Between Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street stations currently takes 38 minutes.
- There could be time savings on the 16.3 miles between Crewe and Weaver Junction, which currently takes 21 minutes.
It looks like a time of one hour and 34 minutes could be possible, with under one hour and 30 minutes not being impossible.
Services To Manchester
Consider.
- Manchester was originally planned to get three tph to and from London using High Speed Two.
- No improvements are planned between Crewe and the Manchester stations.
- Between Crewe and Manchester Piccadilly stations currently takes 34 minutes.
It looks like a time of one hour and 30 minutes could be possible.
But there is still the option of building a new line between Crewe and Northern Powerhouse Rail at High Legh.
I showed this OpenRailwayMap earlier and it shows the originally proposed route of High Speed Two between Crewe and Manchester Airport.
Note.
- Crewe is towards the South-West corner of the map.
- Manchester Airport is in the North-East corner of the map.
- The red line going North from Crewe is the West Coast Main Line.
- The dotted red line was the originally proposed route of High Speed Two, between the West Coast Main Line and Manchester Airport.
Northern Powerhouse Rail is currently being planned. and will go West from Manchester Airport towards Warrington and Liverpool and will be built first.
A junction at High Legh will be built to link the West Coast Main Line to Northern Powerhouse Rail.
Services To North Wales
Why Not? With the cancellation of the Eastern Leg of High Speed Two, there must be a path available for North Wales.
Consider.
- The North Wales Main Line has been promised electrification.
- As Holyhead and Crewe is only 105.5 miles, it could even be in battery high speed train range in a few years.
- All times to and from Crewe are assumed to be as Avanti West Coast achieve now.
- As Crewe and Chester currently takes 23 minutes, London and Chester would take 1 hour and 19 minutes.
- As Crewe and Llandudno Junction currently takes 1 hour and 22 minutes, London and Llandudno Junction would take 2 hours and 18 minutes.
- As Crewe and Holyhead currently takes 2 hours and 7 minutes, London and Holyhead would take 3 hours and 3 minutes.
Could this open up a fast zero-carbon route between London and Dublin?
Services To Blackpool, Lancaster, Preston, Warrington And Wigan
Why Not, Blackpool? With the cancellation of the Eastern Leg of High Speed Two, there must be an extra path available, if it is needed.
Cpnsider.
- All routes are electrified.
- All times to and from Crewe are assumed to be as Avanti West Coast achieve now.
- As Crewe and Blackpool currently takes 1 hour and 20 minutes, London and Blackpool would take 2 hour and 16 minutes.
- As Crewe and Lancaster currently takes 60 minutes, London and Lancaster would take 1 hour and 56 minutes.
- As Crewe and Preston currently takes 40 minutes, London and Preston would take 1 hour and 36 minutes.
- As Crewe and Warrington Bank Quay currently takes 22 minutes, London and Warrington Bank Quay would take 1 hour and 18 minutes.
- As Crewe and Wigan North Western currently takes 33 minutes, London and Wigan North Western would take 1 hour and 29 minutes.
Note.
- Lancaster in under two hours will help the Eden Project Morecambe.
- For some areas of the North West, it might be more convenient to change at Crewe, Warrington Bank Quay, Wigan North Western or Preston.
Improvements to track and signalling could probably bring benefits.
Services To Carlisle And Central Scotland
Cpnsider.
- All routes are electrified.
- All times to and from Crewe are assumed to be as Avanti West Coast achieve now.
- As Crewe and Carlisle currently takes 1 hour and 55 minutes, London and Carlisle would take 2 hours and 51 minutes.
- As Crewe and Lockerbie currently takes 2 hours and 6 minutes, London and Lockerbie would take 3 hours and 1 minute.
- As Crewe and Motherwell currently takes 2 hours and 45 minutes, London and Motherwell would take 3 hours and 41 minutes.
- As Crewe and Edinburgh currently takes 3 hours and 9 minutes, London and Edinburgh would take 4 hours and 5 minutes.
- As Crewe and Glasgow Central currently takes 3 hours and 3 minutes, London and Glasgow Central would take 3 hours and 59 minutes.
Note.
- Just under four hours to Glasgow Central would please the Marketing Department.
- Selective splitting and joining could increase the number of destinations.
Improvements to track and signalling could probably bring benefits.
Services To Stirling
In ORR: Open Access Services Given Green Light Between London And Stirling, I wrote about Grand Union Trains’s new open access service to Stirling.
There has been good feedback on this service, so perhaps one of the spare paths on High Speed Two could be allocated to Open Access Operators, so that more of the country could have a high speed service to London Euston and Birmingham Curzon Street stations.
In the related post, I showed that London Euston and Stirling takes forty five minutes longer than a London Euston and Motherwell service.
This would mean that a London Euston and Stirling service via High Speed Two would take four hours and 26 minutes.
Services Between Birmingham Curzon Street and the North West
Under the plans for High Speed Two, the following services would have run North from Birmingham Curzon Street.
- One tph to Edinburgh or Motherwell and Glasgow via Wigan North Western, Preston, Lancaster, Oxenholme, Penrith, Carlisle, Lockerbie and Carstairs.
- Two tph to Manchester Airport and Manchester Piccadilly.
But there are now spare paths South of Crewe, so Could a one tph Birmingham Curzon Street and Liverpool Lime Street service be squeezed in?
Could The Line Be Privately Financed?
I suspect that building the section between Handsacre and Crewe could be financed in perhaps a similar way, to the Chiltern improvements or the M6 Toll Road were financed.
- The Handsacre and Crewe section is just a simple stretch of rail, with a number of trains passing along it.
- The number of trains passing through, is likely to increase.
- Every train passing through would pay a track charge, just as they do to Network Rail.
- Those with lots of money to lend, like simple projects like wind farms or road tunnels, but think very hard about anything complicated like nuclear power stations or High Speed Two’s station at Euston.
Certainly, my late and very good friend, David, who dealt with the finance of some of London’s largest projects and was on the top table of London’s bankers, would have found a way. It might though have been unorthodox.
But then David was a rogue. But a rogue on the side of the angels.
Conclusion
I have come to these conclusions.
- Building the direct route between Handsacre and Crewe could be good value as it improves all routes that will pass through Crewe.
- Combining High Speed Two and Northern Powerhouse Rail could substantially cut the costs of both routes to the centre of Manchester.
- London and Crewe times should be 56 minutes.
- London and Liverpool Lime Street times could be under one hour and thirty minutes.
- London and Manchester Piccadilly times could start at one hour and thirty minutes and reduce when Northern Powerhouse Rail is built and linked to the West Coast Main Line.
- London and Holyhead could be just over three hours and could open up a fast zero-carbon route between London and Dublin.
- London and Lancaster in under two hours could help the Eden Project Morecambe.
It’s certainly not a bad plan and it should be looked at in more detail.
My First Ride In A Class 397 Train – 15th November 2023
I took these pictures during my first ride in a Class 397 train, between Wigan North Western and Liverpool Lime Street stations.
Note.
- Reading the plates, the total weight of the train is 188.4 tonnes.
- There are 268 seats.
- The ride wasn’t bad at all.
- Seats were comfortable.
Build quality was about the same as a Hitachi train.
Could Train Services At Liverpool Lime Street Station Be Made Carbon-Free?
This map from OpenRailwayMap shows Liverpool Lime Street station.
Note.
- There are ten platforms, which are arranged in two sets of five.
- Electrified tracks are shown in red.
- The lilac track is the loop of the underground Wirral Line.
It would appear that the station is fully electrified.
Services To And From Liverpool Lime Street
These services currently run to and from Liverpool Lime Street station.
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston – 1 tph – Electric
- East Midlands Railway – Norwich – 1 tph – Diesel – Electrified to Liverpool South Parkway – 25.2 miles to electrification at Trafford Park.
- London Northwestern Railway – Birmingham New Street – 1 tph – Electric
- Northern – Blackpool North – 1 tph – Electric
- Northern – Manchester Airport – 1 tph – Electric
- Northern – Manchester Oxford Road – 1 tph – Diesel – Electrified to Liverpool South Parkway – 25.2 miles to electrification at Trafford Park.
- Northern – Warrington Central – 1 tph – Diesel – Electrified to Liverpool South Parkway – 12.7 miles to Warrington Central.
- Northern – Wigan North Western – 2 tph – Electric
- TransPennine Express – Cleethorpes – 1 tph – Electric – Electrified to Liverpool South Parkway – 25.2 miles to electrification at Trafford Park.
- TransPennine Express – Glasgow – 2 tpd – Electric
- TransPennine Express – Hull – 1 tph – Electric
- TransPennine Express – Newcastle – 1 tph – Electric
- Transport for Wales – Chester – 1 tph – Diesel – Electrified to Runcorn – 13.9 miles to Chester.
Note.
- tpd is trains per day
- tph is trains per hour
- There are nine electric services and four diesel services.
It looks to me, that by using battery-electric trains on the four diesel services, Liverpool Lime Street station can be made carbon-free.
Distances on battery power for each service would be as follows.
- East Midlands Railway – Norwich – Both ways – 25.2 miles between Liverpool South Parkway and Trafford Park with charging at both ends.
- Northern – Manchester Oxford Road – Both ways – 25.2 miles between Liverpool South Parkway and Trafford Park with charging at both ends.
- Northern – Warrington Central – Both ways – 12,7 miles between Liverpool South Parkway and Warrington Central with charging between Liverpool Lime Street and Liverpool South Parkway.
- Transport for Wales – Chester – Both ways – 13.9 miles between Runcorn and Chester with charging between Liverpool Lime Street and Runcorn.
Note the flexibility of battery-electric trains allows a variety of charging regimes.
Conclusion
Liverpool Lime Street Station can be made carbon-free
Could High Speed Two Finish At Lichfield?
I wrote this post before Rishi Sunak made his speech.
I went to Manchester and Liverpool yesterday by train.
I took the 10:33 from Euston and this a summary of my journey.
- The train left Euston half a minute early.
- It arrived at Stafford (133.5 miles) at 11:50 and left at 11:52.
- It arrived at Crewe (158.0 miles) at 12:08 and left at 12.10.
- It arrived at Wilmslow (176.9 miles) at 12:25 and left at 12:27.
- It arrived at Stockport (183.0 miles) at 12:35 and left at 12:37.
- It arrived in Manchester Piccadilly (188.9 miles) at 12:46.
- It was two minutes late into Manchester and more or less on time at the other stops.
Note.
- The route was via the Trent Valley Line and the train passed through Nuneaton, Tamworth, Lichfield Trent Valley, Colwich and Stafford.
- Euston and Manchester had been timetabled at two hours and eleven minutes.
- This is an average speed of 86.5 mph.
- The Wikipedia entry for High Speed Two gives the fastest time before High Speed Two opens as one hour and fifty-four minutes.
- This will be an average speed of 99.4 mph.
Coming home, I took the 18:48 from Liverpool Lime Street and this a summary of my journey.
- The train left Liverpool on time.
- It arrived at Runcorn (13.2 miles) at 18:58 and left at 19:02.
- It arrived at Crewe (35.8 miles) at 19:26 and left at 19:28.
- It arrived at Milton Keynes (143.8 miles) at 20:27 and left at 20:29.
- It arrived in Euston (183.6 miles) at 21:00.
- It was five minutes late into Crewe and two minutes early at Euston.
Note.
- The route was via the Trent Valley Line and the train passed through Stafford, Colwich, Lichfield Trent Valley, Tamworth and Nuneaton.
- Liverpool and Euston had been timetabled at two hours and twenty minutes.
- This is an average speed of 78.7 mph.
- The Wikipedia entry for High Speed Two gives the fastest time before High Speed Two opens as two hours and three minutes.
- This will be an average speed of 89.6 mph.
This map clipped from the High Speed Two web site, shows the junction North of Lichfield, where High Speed Two connects to the Trent Valley Line through Stafford.
Note.
- High Speed Two runs North-South across the map.
- After the Junction by Fradley South, High Speed Two to Crewe and the North, is the branch to the East.
- The other branch connects to the Trent Valley Line at Handsacre junction.
- Trent Valley Line can be picked out North of Lichfield, where it passes through Lichfield Trent Valley station.
The Trent Valley Line is no Victorian double-track slow-speed bottleneck.
- The route between Rugby and Crewe is generally three or four tracks, with only one short stretch of double track, through Shugborough tunnel.
- The speed limit is generally 110 mph, with 90 mph at Shugborough.
- I wouldn’t be surprised to see Avanti West Coast’s Class 390 and Class 807 trains could be running at up to 140 mph on the route, if digital signalling were to be installed.
- This speed would probably be attained by High Speed Two trains.
London Euston and Stafford would only have under twenty miles of slower line and that could be 140 mph, so High Speed Two times on the route could be very fast.
This second map clipped from the High Speed Two web site, shows between High Speed Two’s two Birmingham stations and Lichfield.
Note.
- High Speed Two Phases 1 and 2a are shown in blue.
- High Speed Two Phase 2b is shown in orange.
- At the top of the map, can be seen the junction, where High Speed Two to the North splits, that was shown in the previous map.
- The large blue dot in the West at the bottom of the map, is Birmingham Curzon Street station.
- The other large blue dot is Birmingham International station.
- The three sections of High Speed Two to London, Birmingham Curzon Street and the North meet at a triangular junction between the two Birmingham stations.
- High Speed Two to the East Midlands, branches off to the East North of the triangular junction.
This third map clipped from the High Speed Two web site, shows between Lichfield and Crewe.
Note.
- High Speed Two Phase 2a is shown in blue.
- High Speed Two Phase 2b is shown in orange.
- Crewe is in the North-West corner of the map, where at the South end of the orange section.
- The junction at Lichfield is in the South-East corner of the map.
- The lighter blue route to the East, between the Lichfield junction and Crewe is the new tracks of High Speed Two.
- The darker blue route to the West, between the Lichfield junction and Crewe is the existing route of the Trent Valley Line and the West Coast Main Line.
- The Trent Valley Line joins the West Coast Main Line at Stafford.
These are a few thoughts and questions.
How Will Trains Go Between Birmingham Curzon Street And London?
Trains will use the triangular junction shown in the second map to go between the two Birmingham stations and then head South,
How Will Trains Go Between Birmingham Curzon Street And The North?
Trains will use the triangular junction shown in the second map to turn North and then take one of the two routes to the North; High Speed Two or Trent Valley Line/West Coast Main Line.
How Will Trains Go Between Birmingham Curzon Street And The North If High Speed Two Between Birmingham And The North Is Scrapped?
If High Speed Two is scrapped from the Northern point of the triangular junction to the North, there will be no way that trains could go North from Birmingham Curzon Street.
- The overcrowded Birmingham New Street station will still be the link to the North of England and Scotland for Birmingham.
- How would trains connect to the future branch to East Midlands Parkway, which connects just North of the triangular junction?
I suspect that a short stub will be built North of the triangular junction to connect to the Trent Valley Line, which is currently, the main route of trains between London and the North through the West Midlands, for trains that don’t go through Birmingham.
Trains Between London And Stafford
Currently, Avanti West Coast trains take around one hour and seventeen minutes between London and Stafford.
The Wikipedia entry for High Speed Two gives these times between London and Stafford.
- Fastest time before High Speed Two – one hour and seventeen minutes.
- Time after Phase 2a of High Speed Two opens – fifty-five minutes.
Note.
That is a time saving of twenty-two minutes.
High Speed Two Trains will use the link between the junction at Lichfield and the Trent Valley Line.
How Many Avanti West Coast Services Use The Trent Valley Line?
These trains use the Trent Valley Line.
- London and Holyhead – 8 tpd
- London and Liverpool Lime Street – 1 tph, which is planned to increase to 2 tph
- London and Manchester Piccadilly – 2 tph
- London and Blackpool North – 1 tpd
- London and Glasgow – 1 tph
Note.
- tpd is trains per day
- tph is trains per hour
This is roughly six tph.
Would It Be Possible To Finish High Speed Two At The Lichfield Junction And Connect It To The Trent Valley Line?
This is a repeat of the first map.
Note.
- High Speed Two runs North-South across the map.
- After the Junction by Fradley South, High Speed Two to Crewe and the North, is the branch to the East.
- The other branch connects to the Trent Valley Line at Handsacre junction.
- Trent Valley Line can be picked out North of Lichfield, where it passes through Lichfield Trent Valley station.
If the Eastern branch North from the junction were to be scrapped, all trains between London and North would go via Stafford.
As all these tracks are planned and must be at an advanced stage, that is ready for construction, I feel the route would be feasible.
It would have these benefits.
- Birmingham Curzon Street services and the North-West of England and the West of Scotland would be possible.
- Services between London and Stafford will be twenty-two minutes faster, than they are now.
- Time savings will also apply to services from London to Liverpool, Macclesfield, Manchester, Stoke-on-Trent and all stations between Crewe and Glasgow.
The capacity of the Trent Valley Line would be the limiting factor.
Time Savings Between Crewe And Preston
According to the Wikipedia entry for High Speed Two, after Phase 2a of High Speed Two opens, these will be the fastest times to Crewe and Preston.
- Crewe – 0:56
- Preston 1:18
Note.
- The fastest Preston service runs non-stop between Euston and Preston.
- Crewe and Preston are 51 miles apart.
A time of 22 minutes between Crewe and Preston, means the average speed is 139 mph.
Does this mean that High Speed Two will improve between Crewe and Preston to allow 140 mph non-stop running?
But 22 minutes is certainly an improvement on the current time between Crewe and Preston for Scottish trains of 40 minutes.
Time Savings Between Crewe And Liverpool
The upgrading of the line between might save another couple of minutes between Crewe and Weaver junction.
What Times Would Be Possible Via High Speed Two And The Trent Valley Line?
These times are based on the following.
- The twenty-two minute saving to Stafford, as all High Speed Two services to the North-West of England and the West of Scotland will go via Phase 1 of High Speed Two and Stafford.
- A saving of eighteen minutes will be applied to Scottish services because of savings between Crewe and Preston.
This would give these times in hours:minutes.
- Blackpool – 2:10
- Carlisle – 2:35
- Chester – 1:28
- Crewe – 1:08
- Glasgow – 3:50
- Holyhead – 3:10
- Lancaster – 2:03
- Liverpool Lime Street – 1:41
- Llandudno Junction – 2:24
- Macclesfield – 1:30
- Manchester Piccadilly via Crewe – 1:52
- Oxenholme – 1:54
- Preston – 1:46
- Runcorn 1:31
- Stafford – 0:55
- Stockport – 1:35
- Stoke-on-Trent – 1:10
- Warrington – 1:22
- Wigan 1:33
- Wilmslow – 1:25
I have calculated extra services to Blackpool and North Wales.
Adding The Lichfield And Crewe Section
Consider.
- My calculations indicate that London and Crewe will take 1:08.
- The Wikipedia entry for High Speed Two, after Phase 2a of High Speed Two opens, gives the fastest time to Crewe as 0:56.
This indicates that adding the section of High Speed Two between Lichfield and Crewe will save a further twelve minutes.
Conclusion
I strongly believe that an upgraded Trent Valley Line linked to a shortened High Speed Two at Lichfield could improve journey times between London, Birmingham and the North.
There are certainly savings to be made.
See Also
High Speed Two To Crewe
There has been a lot of speculation about the Northern end of High Speed Two, so I might as well add sort out a few facts and add a bit of speculation of my own.
Sample Times Between London And Crewe
These are selected times from the 27th September 2023.
- 07:30 – Glasgow Non-Stop – 1:29
- 07:33 – Manchester Piccadilly – 1:37 – Stops at Stafford
- 07:43 – Liverpool Lime Street – 1:40 – Stops at Milton Keynes
- 08:30 – Glasgow Non-Stop – 1:29
- 08:33 – Manchester Piccadilly – 1:37 – Stops at Stafford
- 08:43 – Liverpool Lime Street – 1:40 – Stops at Milton Keynes
- 09:02 – Holyhead – 1:40 – Stop at Stafford
- 15:02 – Chester – 1:40 – Stops at Tamworth, Lichfield Trent Valley and Stafford
Note.
- The 07:30 and 08:30 Glasgow services appears to be pathed for one of the Class 390 Pendolino electric trains and were run by Pendolinos.
- The 07:33 and 08:33 Manchester services appears to be pathed for one of the Pendolino electric trains and were run by Pendolinos.
- The 07:43 and 08:43 Liverpool services appears to be pathed for one of the new Class 807 electric trains, but were run by Pendolinos.
- The 15:02 Chester service appears to be pathed for one of the new Class 805 bi-mode trains.
- All services except the Glasgow services stop at Crewe.
- As London Euston and Crewe is 158 miles, the non-stop Glasgow services average 107 mph, the one-stop Manchester service averages 98 mph and the one-stop Liverpool service averages 95 mph.
I have some further thoughts.
How Long Does A Stop Take?
I’ve looked at some stops of Glasgow, Liverpool and Manchester services
Crewe
Looking at timings between Weaver Junction and Norton Bridge, I have found the following times.
- Glasgow-Euston – 23 minutes
- Liverpool-Euston – 28 minutes
Note.
- Manchester services don’t go through Weaver Junction.
- Weaver Junction and Norton Bridge are respectively North and South of Crewe.
- The Liverpool service stops at Crewe, where it has a dwell time of two minutes.
- The Glasgow service goes straight through Crewe.
The Crewe stop takes a total of 5 minutes of which 3 minutes are deceleration and acceleration to and from linespeed.
Stafford
Looking at timings between Norton Bridge and Colwich, I have found the following times.
- Glasgow-Euston – 7½ minutes
- Liverpool-Euston – 7½ minutes
- Manchester -Euston – 14 minutes
Note.
- Norton Bridge and Colwich are respectively North and South of Stafford.
- The Manchester service stops at Stafford, where it has a dwell time of two minutes.
- The Glasgow and Liverpool services go straight through Stafford.
The Stafford stop takes a total of 6½ minutes of which 4½ minutes are deceleration and acceleration to and from linespeed.
Milton Keynes
Looking at timings between Weedon and Bletchley, I have found the following times.
- Glasgow-Euston – 11½ minutes
- Liverpool-Euston – 16 minutes
- Manchester -Euston – 12½ minutes
Note.
- Weedon and Bletchley are respectively North and South of Milton Keynes.
- The Liverpool service stops at Milton Keynes, where it has a dwell time of one minute.
- The Glasgow and Manchester services go straight through Milton Keynes.
The Milton Keynes stop takes a total of 4 minutes of which 3 minutes are deceleration and acceleration to and from linespeed.
Average Speeds Between Crewe And London
London Ruston and Crewe is 158 miles according to Real Time Trains.
So what would times would various average speeds deliver?
- 100 mph – 95 minutes
- 110 mph – 86 minutes
- 120 mph – 79 minutes
- 125 mph – 76 minutes
- 130 mph – 73 minutes
- 140 mph – 68 minutes
Obviously, any average speed with over 125 mph running, will need full digital signalling.
Liverpool And London In Two Hours
Tucked away beside the Grand Union Sets Out Stirling Ambitions article in the December 2022 Edition of Modern Railways is a report on Avanti West Coast’s application for a second service between Euston and Liverpool.
This is said.
Avanti West Coast has applied for access rights for its second hourly Euston to Liverpool service, starting from December 2023, although a phased introduction of the new service is likely. This would make use of Avanti’s new fleet of 10×7-car Class 807 Hitachi EMUs, which are expected to enter service from Autumn 2023. The ‘807s’ would be deployed on the current hourly Liverpool service, on which a call at Liverpool South Parkway would be added. (provision is made for this in the December 2022 timetable.).
Pendolinos would then operate the second service each hour, calling at Lichfield Trent Valley and Tamworth.
A linespeed project is in progress to raise the permissible speed for non-tilting trains on the West Coast Main Line, and Avanti’s new Hitachi trains will take advantage of this.
I’ll take a quick look at the Crewe and Runcorn section.
- It is 22.5 miles.
- It takes 19 minutes.
- That is an average speed of 71 mph.
- Crewe and Weaver Junction has a speed limit of at least 110 mph
- Runcorn and Weaver Junction has a speed limit of at least 90 mph for most of the way.
- If with their superior performance, the new Class 807 trains could average 90 mph between Crewe and Runcorn, they would take 15 minutes.
- Achieving the 90 mph average may need a bit of track realignment and some signaling changes.
The four minutes saved would be enough to handle the extra stop at Liverpool South Parkway.
Consider.
- Currently, Pendolino trains do Liverpool and Crewe in 38 minutes, which includes the stop at Runcorn.
- My calculation with the Class 807 trains, shows that with a bit of extra signalling, the new trains could do Liverpool and Crewe in 38 minutes with the two stops.
- The stop at Crewe will subtract 5 minutes from the base journey time.
- The stop at Milton Keynes will subtract 4 minutes from the base journey time.
This means the base journey time between Crewe and London will be 73 minutes.
This would indicate that the trains would be running at 130 mph to achieve the two hours.
But there are five accelerations and five decelerations on a journey between London and Liverpool and the new Class 807 trains are the Lotuses of Hitachi’s family of AT-300 trains; lightweight and powerful.
Suppose they could save thirty seconds for each acceleration and deceleration.
The base journey time between Crewe and London will be 78 minutes.
This would indicate that the trains would be running at over 120 mph to achieve the two hours.
I certainly feel, that Liverpool and London in two hours is certainly possible using the new Class 807 trains.
London and Crewe with two stops would be times at one hour and twelve minutes.
But what about the Pendolinos?
- My last return trip from Liverpool did a practice call at Liverpool South Parkway and still arrived in London a few minutes early.
- The Pendolinos will still benefit from any improvements, between Crewe and Runcorn, which could reduce the Liverpool and Crewe time from 38 minutes to 34 minutes.
- The stop at Crewe will subtract 5 minutes from the base journey time.
- The stops at Lichfield Trent Valley and Tamworth will both subtract 4 minutes from the base journey time.
This means the base journey time between Crewe and London will be 73 minutes, which is the same as for the Class 807 trains.
This would indicate that the trains would be running at 130 mph to achieve the two hours.
Could this average speed be achieved by the selective application of full digital signalling, perhaps on the Trent Valley Line?
But it does appear to me, that the Pendolinos can get very close to two hours between London and Liverpool.
London and Crewe with three stops would be times at one hour and sixteen minutes.
Crewe And London Non-Stop
Consider.
- Pendolinos between London and Glasgow, go non-stop between London and Crewe.
- I have calculated that Pendolinos between London and Liverpool, will take one hour and sixteen minutes with three stops between London and Crewe.
- The three stops take a total of thirteen minutes.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see London and Glasgow Pendolinos take one hour and three minutes between London and Crewe.
This would knock twenty-six minutes off journey times between London and Glasgow.
Conclusion
I believe that with relatively minor improvements on the West Coast Main Line and the Liverpool branch, the following can be achieved.
- Liverpool and London can be around two hours with new Class 807 trains or Pendolinos.
- Liverpool and London services can increase their calls in the Midlands.
- London and Glasgow services can be nearly half-an-hour faster.
- The fastest London and Crewe services could be just over an hour using Pendolinos.
I also believe that the only serious infrastructure needed is some track realignment and some updated signalling.
See Also
Could High Speed Two Finish At Lichfield?
High Speed Two To Liverpool
There has been a lot of speculation about the Northern end of High Speed Two, so I might as well add sort out a few facts and add a bit of speculation of my own.
The Current Liverpool Service
I shall look at the 08:43 train on the 18th September 2023.
- It was a nine-car Class 390 train or Pendolino, which left on time.
- Euston and Liverpool Lime Street are 193.7 miles apart.
- The train called at Milton Keynes Central, Crewe and Runcorn
- The train arrived at Crewe at 10:24 and left at 10:26.
- The train arrived at Runcorn at 10:43 and left at 10:44.
- The train arrived at Liverpool Lime Street at 11:04 on time.
- The journey took two hours and 21 minutes
- The average speed was 82.4 mph.
- The Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street section is 39.7 miles and the train is scheduled to take forty minutes.
- The average speed between Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street is almost exactly 60 mph.
- The slower average speed is because the train is slowing for a gradual stop in Liverpool and the only fast section is the 110 mph section between Crewe and Weaver Junction, where the Liverpool Branch leaves the West Coast Main Line.
- There is one train per hour (tph).
There are probably only limited ways that time can be saved between Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street.
- The West Coast Main Line between Crewe and Weaver Junction takes twelve minutes and has an operating speed of 110 mph, so saving a few minutes might be possible, by upgrading the speed on this line with digital signalling to allow 140 mph running.
- It might be possible to save a couple of minutes at the Runcorn stop by using the superior performance of the new Class 807 or High Speed Two trains.
- The slowing down into and accelerating out of Liverpool might be improved by digital signalling and trains with better performance.
It should be noted that Liverpool Lime Street station was recently remodelled to improve operation of the station and the tracks connecting it to Runcorn.
I would be fairly sure that Network Rail and Avanti West Coast have got Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street times to a minimum. As this route will become part of High Speed Two, I suspect that Network Rail/Avanti have done extensive computer simulations of the route, to make sure they get it as quick and efficient as possible.
The New Class 807 Trains
The Class 807 trains, which enter service this year or early next, are the Lotuses in Hitachi’s AT 300 family of high speed trains.
- They are electric only and have no heavy diesel engines or traction batteries.
- They don’t even have emergency batteries for when the catenary fails.
- They have a redesigned nose. Is it more aerodynamic?
- As with all the other Hitachi high speed trains, they are capable of 125 mph, or 140 mph if the signalling permits.
These trains will undoubtedly have faster acceleration and deceleration and could probably knock minutes off the timings at all the stops.
A Second Hourly Train To Liverpool
Tucked away beside the Grand Union Sets Out Stirling Ambitions article in the December 2022 Edition of Modern Railways is a report on Avanti West Coast’s application for a second service between Euston and Liverpool.
This is said.
Avanti West Coast has applied for access rights for its second hourly Euston to Liverpool service, starting from December 2023, although a phased introduction of the new service is likely. This would make use of Avanti’s new fleet of 10×7-car Class 807 Hitachi EMUs, which are expected to enter service from Autumn 2023. The ‘807s’ would be deployed on the current hourly Liverpool service, on which a call at Liverpool South Parkway would be added. (provision is made for this in the December 2022 timetable.).
Pendolinos would then operate the second service each hour, calling at Lichfield Trent Valley and Tamworth.
A linespeed project is in progress to raise the permissible speed for non-tilting trains on the West Coast Main Line, and Avanti’s new Hitachi trains will take advantage of this.
Note.
- The current Liverpool service stops at Milton Keynes Central, Crewe and Runcorn.
- Liverpool South Parkway station is too short for the longest Pendolinos or Class 390/1 trains.
- When the second service is implemented will it stop at Milton Keynes Central, Crewe, Runcorn and Liverpool South Parkway?
- Will the Pendolinos only stop at Lichfield Trent Valley and Tamworth?
Will Avanti West Coast use the trains to take advantage of their strengths?
- The new lighter Class 807 trains will use their superior acceleration and deceleration to execute fast stops at more stations.
- The shorter Class 807 trains will call at Liverpool South Parkway.
- The current Pendolinos will use their tilt to run as fast as possible between London Euston and Liverpool.
I also suspect that Avanti West Coast will adjust the stopping pattern to attract passengers. I read somewhere, that a stop at Nuneaton to connect to Leicester, Peterborough, Cambridge and Stansted Airport, was a possibility.
More Details Of A Second Hourly Train To Liverpool – 30th September 2023.
Real Time Trains is now showing the details of the second service between London Euston and Liverpool.
These are the future timings of the 09:13 train from Liverpool.
- Liverpool – Leave at 09:13
- Runcorn – Arrive at 09:28 and leave at 09:29½
- Crewe – Arrive at 09:49 and leave at 09:56
- Stafford – Arrive at 10:14½ and leave at 10:16½
- Lichfield Trent Valley – Arrive at 10:29½ and leave at 10:31½
- Tamworth – Arrive at 10:36½ and leave at 10:38½
- Nuneaton – Arrive at 10:49 and leave at 10:51
- Milton Keynes Central – Arrive at 11:21 and leave at 11:23
- Euston – Arrive at 11.59
Note.
- This service has not been activated yet.
- It is pathed for a Class 80x train.
- There are seven stops.
- It will take two hours and 46 minutes.
- Liverpool and Crewe will take 36 minutes.
- There are two other inactivated services like this running through Birmingham and Northampton.
Could these services have been timetabled to test connectivity?
High Speed Two Classic Compatible Trains
These High Speed Two Classic Compatible trains are to be built for High Speed Two.
- They will be able to run on both High Speed Two and current high speed lines like the East Coast Main Line and the West Coast Main Line.
- They will have an operating speed of 205 mph on High Speed Two.
- They will be able to operate at appropriate speeds on existing high speed lines. Typically, that is 125 mph, but with full digital signalling that is 140 mph.
- They are two hundred metres long and are sixty metres shorter than an eleven-car Pendolino.
- They are being built by a Hitachi-Alstom joint venture.
This document on the Government web site is the Train Technical Specification for High Speed Two Classic-Compatible Trains.
Introducing The High Speed Two Classic Compatible Trains Into Service
Consider.
- London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street services can be run by eleven-car Pendolinos.
- It looks like after the introduction of the second service between London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street is introduced, it will be run by Pendolinos and it could be a two-stop service.
- The High Speed Two Classic Compatible trains should be able to run any service currently run by an eleven-car Pendolino.
So will Avanti West Coast use this second hourly London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street service to introduce the new High Speed Two Classic Compatible trains into public service?
- It would make sure the trains and existing track and signals were fully debugged.
- It would inform the public that High Speed Two is on its way.
- It would be good marketing for High Speed Two.
- They might shave a few minutes off journey times.
- It could use all the existing infrastructure.
- It will provide work for Alstom in Derby.
I feel Avanti West Coast just might!
London Euston And Liverpool Lime Street Before Phase 2a Of High Speed Two Opens
According to the Wikipedia entry for High Speed Two, these are the fastest timings.
- London Euston and Crewe – One hour and 30 minutes
- London Euston and Runcorn – One hour and 53 minutes
- London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street – Two hours and 3 minutes
Currently, the fastest London and Liverpool Lime Street trains take two hours and 21 minutes, so are the Class 807 trains going to be eighteen minutes faster?
From these figures and the times of the 0843, I can deduce these journey times.
- Currently, Crewe and Runcorn takes 17 minutes and the Class 807 train will take 23 minutes
- Currently, Runcorn and Liverpool Lime Street takes 20 minutes and the Class 807 train will take 10 minutes
- Currently, Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street takes 38 minutes and the Class 807 train will take 33 minutes
It looks like there may be slight problems with Wikipedia’s figures. But they were published before Avanti West Coast had run a Class 807 train between Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street. I think we’ll have to wait and see what turns up on Saturday, the 9th of December 2023, when the timetables change.
But I do feel now that the Class 807 trains will achieve London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street in two hours and three minutes.
London Euston And Liverpool Lime Street After Phase 2a Of High Speed Two Opens
According to the Wikipedia entry for High Speed Two, these are the timings.
- London Euston and Crewe – 56 minutes
- London Euston and Runcorn – One hour and 14 minutes
- London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street – One hour and 32 minutes
From these figures and the times of the 0843, I can deduce these journey times.
- Currently, Crewe and Runcorn takes 17 minutes and High Speed Two will take 18 minutes
- Currently, Runcorn and Liverpool Lime Street takes 20 minutes and High Speed Two will take 18 minutes
- Currently, Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street takes 38 minutes and High Speed Two will take 36 minutes
There doesn’t seem to be much of a saving between today’s Pendolino and High Speed Two between Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street.
Could it be that the work to improve Liverpool Lime Street station and its approaches a few years ago sorted out a lot of problems and Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street is now almost to the standard needed for High Speed Two?
If savings are made anywhere by High Speed Two, it could be between Runcorn and Liverpool Lime Street.
Looking at the operating speeds on OpenRailwayMap, there appears to be a 30 mph section of track for a couple of miles out of Liverpool Lime Street, which includes a sharp curve.
This Google Map shows the approaches to Lime Street station.
Note.
- The tracks across the top of the map are the main electrified Liverpool and Manchester tracks.
- The building in the middle is Alstom Traincare’s Liverpool Depot.
- The line to Runcorn enters the map in the South-East corner and curves around the depot to join the tracks into Lime Street station.
- The operating speed gradually reduces from 30 mph on this map to less than 15 mph in Lime Street station.
Perhaps, this 30 mph section is to be improved to gain the couple of minutes.
I also think, that savings could be possible at Runcorn station.
If when the second service starts, the Pendolinos don’t stop at Runcorn, that would save a few minutes.
The Class 807 and the High Speed Two Classic Compatible trains with their superior acceleration and deceleration could save a couple of minutes in the stop at Runcorn.
I very much feel that as the Pendolinos manage to achieve Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street in 38 minutes, that Pendolinos on the second service, Class 807 and the High Speed Two Classic Compatible trains, will all manage 36 minutes or less on the route.
London Euston And Liverpool Lime Street After Phase 2b Of High Speed Two Opens
There will be no changes as the full-size High Speed Two trains are not planned to run into Liverpool Lime Street.
Conclusion
It looks to me, that the Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street leg of High Speed Two is more or less complete.
Times between London and Liverpool will be as follows.
- Before High Speed Two Phase 2a – 2 hours and 3 minutes
- After High Speed Two Phase 2a – 1 hour and 32 minutes
- After High Speed Two Phase 2b – 1 hour and 32 minutes
I believe that for many this will be fast enough, especially as it’s nearly complete.
See Also
Could High Speed Two Finish At Lichfield?
Liverpool Lime Street And Newcastle By Battery-Electric Class 802 Train
After my visit to Morley station, which I wrote about in Morley Station – 17th August 2023, in this post, I look at how a battery-electric Class 802 train might run between Liverpool Lime Street And Newcastle stations.
These are the various sections of the route.
- Liverpool Lime Street and Manchester Victoria – 31.6 miles – 36 minutes – Electrified
- Manchester Victoria and Huddersfield – 25.7 miles – 30 minutes – Not Electrified
- Huddersfield and Dewsbury – 8 miles – 7 minutes – Currently Being Electrified
- Dewsbury and Leeds – 9.1 miles – 14 minutes – Not Electrified
- Leeds and York – 25.8 miles – 30 minutes – Currently Being Electrified
- York and Newcastle – 80.2 miles – 58 minutes – Electrified
Note.
- Liverpool Lime Street and Manchester Victoria, Leeds and York and York and Newcastle are all long enough to fully charge a battery-electric train.
- There is electrification of both ends of the route.
- Manchester Victoria and York is a distance of 68.6 miles.
- The total route length is a distance of 180.4 miles.
In the August 2023 Edition of Modern Railways, there is an article, which is entitled GWR Seeks Opportunities To Grow.
This is the sub-heading.
Managing Director Mark Hopwood tells Philip Sherratt there is plenty of potential to increase rail’s economic contribution.
This is a paragraph.
Meanwhile, GWR had announced plans with Eversholt Rail to trial the replacement of a diesel generator unit with batteries on a Class 802 IET. However, Mr. Hopwood says this would not be useful for GWR and so the trial is not proceeding; instead, a TransPennine Express Class 802 will be the subject of a battery trial.
Could the trial be conducted on TransPennine Express’s Liverpool Lime Street And Newcastle route?
- The total route length is a distance of 180.4 miles.
- The two electrified sections at the ends of the route; Liverpool Lime Street and Manchester Victoria and York and Newcastle are both long enough to fully charge a battery-electric train.
- The central section between Manchester Victoria and York is not overly long at 68.6 miles.
- The route is convenient for Hitachi’s headquarters at Newton Aycliffe.
It looks like, the Liverpool Lime Street And Newcastle route would make an ideal test route for battery-electric Class 802 trains.
Manchester Piccadilly And Newcastle By Battery-Electric Class 802 Train
This is a very similar route to the Liverpool Lime Street And Newcastle route with a different Western terminal.
These are the various sections of the route.
- Manchester Piccadilly and Huddersfield – 25.5 miles – 42 minutes – Not Electrified
- Huddersfield and Dewsbury – 8 miles – 10 minutes – Currently Being Electrified
- Dewsbury and Leeds – 9.1 miles – 14 minutes – Not Electrified
- Leeds and York – 25.8 miles – 30 minutes – Currently Being Electrified
- York and Newcastle – 80.2 miles – 58 minutes – Electrified
Note.
- Turnround time at Manchester Piccadilly and York and Newcastle are all long enough to fully charge a battery-electric train.
- There is electrification of both ends of the route.
- Manchester Piccadilly and York is a distance of 68.4 miles.
- The total route length is a distance of 148.5 miles.
Like the Liverpool Lime Street And Newcastle route, I believe the Manchester Piccadilly And Newcastle route would make an ideal test route for battery-electric Class 802 trains.
Could East Midland Railway’s Leicester And Lincoln Service Be Extended To Burton On Trent?
After my trip to Lincoln and Cleethorpes earlier this week, I got to thinking about how train services could be improved in the area.
Cleethorpes As A Battery-Electric Train Hub Station
In Cleethorpes Station – 28th June 2023, this was my last sentence.
Cleethorpes station could be at the centre of its own battery-electric train network, with all trains powered by just 3.3 miles of single-track electrification.
Services running to Cleethorpes station could be.
- East Midlands Railway – Barton-on-Humber and Cleethorpes via Barrow Haven, New Holland, Goxhill, Thornton Abbey, Ulceby, Habrough, Stallingborough, Healing, Great Coates, Grimsby Town, Grimsby Docks and New Clee, which currently runs two-hourly, but probably should run hourly. Barton-on-Humber and Grimsby Town is not electrified and is 19.6 miles or 39.2 miles for a round trip.
- East Midlands Railway – Leicester and Cleethorpes via Syston, Sileby, Barrow-upon-Soar, Loughborough, East Midlands Parkway, Attenborough, Beeston, Nottingham, Newark Castle, Collingham, Swinderby, Hykeham, Lincoln, Market Rasen, Barnetby, Habrough and Grimsby Town which currently runs two-hourly, but probably should run hourly. Nottingham and Grimsby Town is not planned to be electrified and is 77.8 miles.
- LNER – London King’s Cross and Cleethorpes via Stevenage, Peterborough, Grantham, Newark Northgate, Lincoln, Market Rasen, Barnetby, Habrough and Grimsby Town, which would run at least two trains per day (tpd). Newark Northgate and Grimsby Town is not electrified and is 60.6 miles.
- TransPennine Express – Liverpool Lime Street and Cleethorpes via Liverpool South Parkway, Warrington Central, Birchwood, Manchester Oxford Road, Manchester Piccadilly, Stockport, Sheffield, Meadowhall, Doncaster, Scunthorpe, Barnetby, Habrough and Grimsby Town, which runs hourly. Hazel Grove and Grimsby Town is not electrified and is 101.4 miles.
Note.
- All services to Cleethorpes could be run using a battery-electric train, with the range of a Stadler FLIRT Akku, which is 139 miles.
- Cleethorpes station will soon have four terminal platforms. Could it be one platform for each service?
- The 3.3 miles of single-track electrification would be between Cleethorpes and Grimsby stations.
- I am assuming that all services should be at least hourly, except London King’s Cross.
- If the frequency of services to London King’s Cross, were to be increased, the extra services would take-over paths of the East Midlands Railway services between Lincoln and Cleethorpes.
- I am also assuming that the Midland Main Line electrification has been completed through Leicester to Nottingham, as is currently planned.
Cleethorpes will become a very well-connected station.
Collateral Benefits Of Cleethorpes As A Fossil Fuel-Free Station
If all services to Cleethorpes are run by battery-electric trains, then there will be collateral benefits.
- All passenger train services in North-East Lincolnshire will be zero-carbon.
- TransPennine Express’s Southern route between Liverpool Lime Street and Cleethorpes via Manchester, Sheffield and Doncaster will be zero-carbon.
- LNER’s services to London King’s Cross from Lincolnshire will be zero carbon.
Manchester and Sheffield will be linked by an hourly electric service, just as it was between 1953 and 1981.
The Ivanhoe Line
I wrote about the Ivanhoe Line in Reinstatement Of The Ivanhoe Line.
- There is a proposed reinstatement of passenger services between Leicester and Burton-on-Trent stations.
- I estimate it’s a distance of around 37 miles.
- There would be some new stations on the route.
In the Wikipedia entry for the Ivanhoe Line, there is a section called Future, where this is said.
The intermediate stations are capable of taking only a two-coach train, which has led to overcrowding on some services, especially now that the service is extended to Nottingham and Lincoln. The latest Route Utilisation Strategy for the East Midlands makes recommendations for platform lengthening.
East Midlands Parkway railway station has now been built on the route. The Borough of Charnwood’s local plan of 2004 anticipates a station at Thurmaston.
In 2022 the closed section of the line was one of nine schemes chosen to undergo a feasibility scrutiny by Network Rail as part of the government’s Restoring Your Railway programme. If approved, work could start in 2024 and the line reopened in 2026
Note.
- The first paragraph refers to the existing section of the Ivanhoe Line, to the North of Leicester.
- I went to Burton once for the football and it’s a difficult place to get to from North London by train.
- Burton-on-Trent station was fully refurbished in 2011.
- Burton-on-Trent station has hourly services from CrossCountry trains.
It seems that a creditable plan is emerging.
Service Frequency Between Burton-on-Trent And Leicester
As Burton-on-Trent station has hourly services, I suspect that this will be the initial frequency between Burton-on-Trent and Leicester.
But I could see this frequency being increased, if there were long waits during interchange at Burton-on-Trent.
Average Speed Of The Service And Estimate For A Time Between Cleethorpes And Burton-on-Trent
The current Grimsby Town and Leicester service is over a route of 105.3 miles and a direct service takes two hours and thirty-seven minutes.
This is an average speed of 40.24 mph.
I can now give an estimate for a Cleethorpes and Burton-on-Trent service.
The distance will be 105.3+3.3+37, which is 145.6 miles.
An estimate of the time using a speed of 40.24 mph is three hours and thirty-seven minutes.
But seeing that a good proportion of the route has a 110 mph operating speed, I suspect that a 100 mph train could do the trip faster.
Could Cleethorpes And Burton-on-Trent Be Worked By A Battery-Electric Train?
The route could be effectively four sections.
- Cleethorpes and Grimsby Town – 3.3 miles – Electrified
- Grimsby Town and Nottingham – 77.8 miles – Not Electrified
- Nottingham and Leicester – 27.5 miles – Being Electrified
- Leicester and Burton-on-Trent – 37 miles – Not Electrified
Note.
- In a round trip, there are two sections of 77.8 miles and two consecutive sections of 37 miles.
- Battery-electric trains would be charged on the electrified section of the route.
I am sure that a battery-electric train with a range of greater than 77.8 miles would handle the service.
The Anonymous Widower 