Should Number 10 North Have Good Rail Connections To London?
The answer to this question must be Yes! But it must also have good rail connections to the rest of the UK.Heron House
The current Number 10 North is at Heron House, which is shown on this OpenRailwayMap.
Note.
- The green lines are Manchester’s Metrolink.
- Piccadilly Gardens with its tram stop is in the North-East corner of the map.
- The tram lines going South-East from Piccadilly Gardens go to Manchester Piccadilly station.
- The tram lines going North-East from Piccadilly Gardens go to Manchester Victoria station.
- In the middle of the map, there is St. Peter’s Square tram stop, which are within a five-minute walk to the circular Manchester Central Library and the triangular Manchester Town Hall.
- Heron House is on the opposite side of Albert Square to Manchester Town Hall.
Andy Burnham has obviously chosen a location he knows well from his nine years as the Mayor of Greater Manchester.
Long-term there are plans to move Number 10 North to the Manchester Digital Campus in Great Ancoats Street, Ancoats, Manchester, when construction is completed around 2032.
This Google Map shows the location of Great Ancoats Street with respect to Manchester City Centre.
Note.
- Great Ancoat’s Street appears to be part of Manchester’s Inner Ring Road.
- Google placed the red arrow, but I suspect Number 10 North could be somewhere near the arrow.
- Manchester Piccadilly station is not marked on the map, but is about a 0.8 mile South-West of the red arrow, at the end of the rail line going South-East from the map.
- Number 10 North should be about a 5 to 10 minute walk from Manchester Piccadilly station.
- Currently, there is no tram running in this direction.
- The two stations in the South-West corner of the map are Deansgate in the West and Manchester Oxford Road in the East.
- The fourth station in Manchester City Centre is Manchester Victoria in the North-West corner of the map, by the AO Arena and Manchester Cathedral.
- Located between Deansgate, Oxford Road and Victoria stations is a white triangle, which is Manchester Town Hall, with the current location of Number 10 North at Heron House to its West.
- There don’t appear to be any trams on Great Ancoat’s Street, but there are buses between Manchester Victoria and Great Ancoat’s Street, which take about 11-20 minutes.
- As an alternative between Manchester Victoria and Great Ancoat’s Street, you can take a tram to New Islington and walk.
This brief look seems to indicate, that to get to Great Ancoat’s Street, you either walk from Manchester Piccadilly or take trams or buses and a short walk from Manchester Victoria.
This OpenRailwayMap shows Manchester Piccadilly, Manchester Victoria and New Islington.
Note.
- Manchester Victoria station is indicated by a blue arrow.
- Manchester Piccadilly station is towards the bottom of the map.
- New Islington tram stop is North-West of Manchester Piccadilly on the green tram line to the Etihad Stadium and Ashton-Under-Lyme tram stops.
- The Etihad Stadium can be seen three tram stops on from New Islington at the Eastern edge of the map.
- Passengers going between Manchester Victoria and New Islington would change trams at Picadilly Gardens tram stop.
I believe that the Future Number 10 North will be within easy walking distance of the New Islington tram stop.
Current London And Manchester Services
Avanti West Cost currently run three hourly trains between Euston and Manchester Piccadilly.
- 1 train per hour (tph) stops at Milton Keynes Central, Rugby, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield, Stockport
- 1 tph stops at Nuneaton, Stoke-on-Trent, Stockport
- 1 tph stops atStafford, Crewe, Wilmslow, Stockport
I don’t think this gives a wide enough coverage of stations.
Lumo’s Proposed London And Manchester Services
Lumo want to run six daily trains between between Euston and Rochdale.
These will stop at Warrington Bank Quay, Newton-le-Willows, Eccles and Manchester Victoria.
Note.
- This could be a fast service, as it is proposed to be non-stop between Euston and Warrington Bank Quay.
- It will probably be only five-cars, which would give no problems terminating at Euston and Rochdale stations.
- Eccles and Rochdale are in Greater Manchester.
- Currently, Warrington Bank Quay, Newton-le-Willows, Eccles and Manchester Victoria don’t have direct trains to London.
- I can see this service appealing to thrifty Yorkshire folk, as Rochdale has 3 tph to Hebden Bridge and Leeds, 2 tph to Halifax and Bradford Interchange, and 1 tph to Brighouse and Dewsbury.
- It could be a low-cost service.
I can see it being successful.
The Former Unilever Site At Warrington – 6th May 2026
I went past this site twice yesterday on my way to and from Blackpool.
I took these pictures going Northwards.
And I took these pictures going Southwards.
A quick search of the Internet on my phone revealed.
- It was a former soap works, that had previously been owned by Unilever.
- The site was now going to be developed as a data centre.
This OpenRailwayMap shows the railways through the area.
Note.
- Warrington Bank Quay station is indicated by the blue arrow in the middle of the map.
- The Unilever site is to its North-West.
- Warrington Bank Quay station is a major station on the West Coast Main Line and will probably be on High Speed Two, which will share tracks with the West Coast Main Line.
- The two East-West lines are not electrified.
- Warrington West is a relatively new station, that I wrote about in 2020, in The New Warrington West Station.
This OpenRailwayMap shows the railway lines between Liverpool and the coast in the West and the West Coast main Line in the East.
Note.
- The Merseyrail third rail network shown in lilac.
- Electrified tracks shown in red.
- Tracks without electrification shown in black.
- Warrington Bank Quay station indicated by the blue arrow.
- The West Coast Main Line (WCML) runs North-South at the Eastern edge of the map.
- Wigan North Western station is in the North East corner of the map.
- Wigan North Western and Warrington Bank Quay stations are both on the WCML.
Five lines connect the Liverpool local network to the WCML.
- The top unelectrified line connects the new Headbolt Lane station to Wigan Wallgate station.
- The most Northerly electrified line connects Liverpool Lime Street and Wigan North Western stations via Huyton station.
- The second electrified line connects Liverpool Lime Street and Manchester via Newton-le-Willows station.
- The most Northerly of the bottom pair of unelectrified lines connects Liverpool Lime Street and Manchester via Warrington Central station.
- The final line is a freight line between Liverpool and Manchester along the Mersey. This line runs under the WCML
The last line is likely to be upgraded to become Northern Powerhouse Rail between Liverpool Lime Street and Manchester via Manchester Airport.
This picture shows a freight train passing under Warrington Bank Quay station.
This OpenRailway Map shows how the lines cross to the South of Warrington Bank Quay station.
Note.
- The electrified North-South line is the West Coast Main Line (WCML).
- There is quite a good amount of space.
Could the junction be designed, so that HS2 trains could go between Manchester and London?
3rd October 2024 – A Day In Liverpool
A Three-Leg Journey North
This is the second time, I’ve bought one of there journeys North and they are a pain, unless you want to guarantee seats.
I suppose, I should buy my tickets earlier, but if I can buy my rickets on the day on other train companies, I would prefer to do it on Avanti West Coast.
Avanti West Coast’s problem is that they haven’t got their new Class 807 trains into service yet, which will double the services to Liverpool.
T arrived at Warrington Bank Quay on time and the transfer to Newton-le-Willows went smoothly, but then, I waited thirty minutes for my train to Liverpool Lime Street.
This OpenRailwayMap shows the route I took.
Note.
- Liverpool Lime Street station is at the Western side of the map.
- Newton-le-Willows station is marked by the blue arrow in the top right corner of the map.
- Warrington Bank Quay station is in the bottom right corner of the map.
It does seem a round about route, But I got there. Although, I was late.
Hopefully, in a couple of years, you’ll be able to take a local train between Liverpool Lime Street and Newton-le-Willows stations to link up with FirstGroup’s low-cost Lumo Open Access service between Euston and Rochdale.
A Single Journey Home
I was booked home on the 18:43 train from Lime Street, but as you can often do, I asked and was allowed to board the 17:43.
A Crowded And Crazy Euston
I arrived back at Euston at 20:00, but it was crowded, as the station is very much a building site for High Speed Two.
I felt I would treat myself to a taxi, but I couldn’t find any.
So I took a 205 bus along Euston Road to King’s Cross, where I jumped on the the Circle Line for Moorgate.
From there I took my usual 141 bus home.
A friendly station guy at Moorgate, indicated, there might not be any taxis at Euston.
I’d also found earlier, that there were no escalators to the Underground.
Perhaps more than ever, care should be taken at Euston, when getting to and from the station.
It Looks To Me That High Speed Two Has Got Their Planning Wrong At Euston
The big problem at Euston is getting to and from the National Rail station from East or West,
Compare Euston in this respect with Liverpool Street, King’s Cross, St. Pancras or Paddington.
In The New Step-Free Entrance At Euston Square Station, I show the plans for step-free access to the sub-surface lines.
This new entrance to Euston station, should be built first.
All the dithering about High Speed Two seems to have delayed it!
FirstGroup’s Lumo Seeks To Launch Rochdale – London Open Access Service
The title of this post, is the same as that of this article on Railway Gazette.
These two paragraphs outline the service.
FirstGroup has applied to operate Rochdale – London open access passenger trains, more than 20 years after a short-lived through service ran between the two destinations.
On May 17 FirstGroup said that it had applied to the Office of Rail & Road to launch six Lumo-branded return journeys per day linking London Euston and Rochdale via the West Coast Main Line. The trains would call at Warrington Bank Quay, Newton-le-Willows, Eccles and Manchester Victoria.
These are my thoughts.
The Route Isn’t Fully-Electrified
The route is electrified between London Euston and Manchester Victoria stations, but the 10.4 miles between Manchester Victoria and Rochdale is not electrified.
In Extra Luggage Racks For Lumo, I also talk about the possibility of fitting traction batteries to Lumo’s Class 803 trains, so they could handle the 88.5 mile diversion on the East Coast Main Line via Lincoln.
Trains with a traction battery, with an 88.5 mile range, would be able to travel between Manchester Victoria and Rochdale and return.
How Long Would London Euston And Rochdale Take?
Consider.
- The fastest London Euston and Warrington Bank Quay services take 1 hour and 44 minutes
- The fastest Warrington Bank Quay and London Euston services take 1 hour and 47 minutes
- Northern’s Class 195 trains take between 44-51 minutes Rochdale and Warrington Bank Quay with three stops.
- Northern’s Class 195 trains take between 29-32 minutes Manchester Victoria and Warrington Bank Quay with two stops.
- I will add two minutes for the extra stop.
These are my estimates for overall journey times.
- London Euston and Manchester Victoria – 2 hours and 15 minutes
- London Euston and Rochdale – 2 hours and 29 minutes
- Manchester Victoria and London Euston – 2 hours and 21 minutes
- Rochdale and London Euston – 2 hours and 40 minutes
The fastest direct Avanti West Coast services between London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly take 2 hours and 6 minutes.
Could The Service Be Extended To Leeds?
For my timings between Rochdale and Warrington Bank Quay, I used Northern’s Leeds and Chester service.
This service goes between Manchester Victoria and Leeds calling at Rochdale, Todmorden, Hebden Bridge, Halifax, Bradford Interchange, New Pudsey and Bramley.
I estimate it would take about 3 hours 32 minutes.
When Bradford has a new through station, I wouldn’t be surprised if a train operator looked at this route between London Euston and Leeds.
As Leeds and Manchester Victoria is only 49.8 miles, Lumo’s battery electric trains, with 88.5 mile batteries sized for the Lincoln diversion on the East Coast Main Line, would have no difficulty serving Leeds, where they would charge before return.
Could Lumo Run Pairs Of Five-Car Trains Between London Euston and Manchester Victoria?
As I said in Ten-Car Hull Trains, Lumo’s sister company; Hull Trains, runs the occasional ten-car service.
Perhaps for a big football match or other event, Lumo might like to run ten-car trains between Manchester Victoria and London Euston.
I suspect they could do it if the platforms were long enough, but they wouldn’t be able to run a 260 metre ten-car train to Rochdale, as that station only has a 135 metre long platform.
Warrington Bank Quay Station Will Get Six Extra Non-Stop Trains To And From London
This would provide real competition to Avanti West Coast over this route.
Newton-le-Willows Station Is Only A Few Miles From The Town Of St. Helen’s
Newton-le-Willows station has 400 parking spaces and 32 disabled parking spaces.
Note.
- The parking is all free!
- There are regular local trains to Chester, Leeds, Liverpool Lime Street, Manchester Airport and Wigan North Western.
A six trains-per-day service to and from London, will help fill up the parking spaces.
Eccles Station Is Within Walking Distance Of Eccles Interchange
This OpenRailwayMap shows Eccles station and Eccles Interchange.
Note.
- The mauve tracks are the Manchester Metrolink.
- They terminate in the South-West at Eccles Interchange.
- The red tracks are the Liverpool-Manchester lines.
- Eccles station is a Northerly walk from Eccles Interchange.
This connection must be useful to more than a few.
I suspect if you’re going between London and Media City UK, Salford Quays or Piccadilly Gardens, you may be better to change to the Metrolink at Eccles.
Will Lumo’s Rochdale Service Run As A Flight With Avanti’s Glasgow Service?
Flighting is where two or more trains going on the same route run a few minutes apart.
- Every hour, on the half hour, an Avanti West Coast service for leaves London Euston for Glasgow Central.
- As with Lumo’s Rochdale service, the first stop is Warrington Bank Quay station.
- The Lumo service would leave London Euston a few minutes after Avanti’s Glasgow service.
- The distance between the two trains would be such, that if the first train stopped, the second train could stop safely.
- Digital signalling as is being installed on UK rail lines would make it easier to ensure safe separation.
But the benefit would be that both trains ran fast to Warrington Bank Quay station.
A Day-Trip To Manchester
If I’m right about the 2 hours and 15-21 minutes between London Euston and Manchester Victoria, then a day-trip would certainly be feasible.
Last Trains
This is a table of the last train times for Lumo between Newcastle and London.
- Weekdays – 20:27 21:35
- Saturdays – 18:27 19:22
- Sundays – 19:24 20:21
Note.
- The first time is the last Northbound departure.
- The second time is the last Southbound departure.
- Are these late enough for football matches?
I shall be interested to see the proposed last train times for the Manchester route.
- Will they be timed so you can get a tram from the Etihad or Old Trafford stadium after an evening match, that allowed you to get the last train back to London from Manchester Victoria?
- Taylor Swift gave the Manchester Arena a lot of favours with her concerts. Would you have been able to see her concert and get the last train back to London?
A few extra full trains wouldn’t hurt Lumo’s finances.
Conclusion
It looks like, this could be a very worthwhile service.
