Train Lengths Between King’s Cross and Edinburgh
If you ask Google, what is the platform length at King’s Cross station, you get the following answers.
- Platform 0 – 305 metres
- Platform 1 – 304 metres
- Platform 2 – 285 metres
- Platform 3 – 289 metres
- Platform 4 – 290 metres
- Platform 5 – 270 metres
- Platform 6 – 288 metres
- Platform 7 – 288 metres
- Platform 8 – 289 metres
- Platform 9 – 276 metres
- Platform 10 – 276 metres
This OpenRailwayMap shows the tracks linking to the eleven platforms at King’s Cross.
Note.
- The red tracks are the electrified platforms in King’s Cross.
- The two pink tracks are the Piccadilly Line underneath the station.
- Platform 0 is on the right and Platform 10 is on the left.
- The platform number is shown alongside the track.
Platform 0 is the newest platform, which opened in 2010 and also the longest at 305 metres.
Many of the trains using the station are Hitachi Class 800, 801, 802 and 803 trains, which have cars of the following lengths.
- Driving car – 25.85 metres
- Intermediate car – 26 metres
These lengths mean that individual trains have the following lengths.
- Five-car – 129.7 metres
- Nine-car – 233.7 metres
- Ten-car – Pair of five-cars – 259.4 metres
Note.
- It would appear that nine- and ten-car trains can use all platforms 0-8 in the main station.
- Platform 5 may be short at 270 metres, but Real Time Trains shows it can handle nine- and ten-car trains.
Real Time Trains doesn’t seem to show any nine- and ten-car trains using Platforms 9 and 10. Is the approach just a bit tight?
These are some further thoughts.
LNER’s New Class 897 Trains
I asked Google how long will be LNER’s new ten-car Class 897 trains. This is the answer I received.
The Class 897 train will be 218.7 meters (717 ft 6 in) long, according to Wikipedia. These trains will be ten-car units.
Have these trains been designed, so they can fit in Platforms 9 and 10 at King’s Cross and other shorter platforms, that LNER serve?
Other train classes, that could use Platforms 9 and 10 at King’s Cross include.
- Five-car Class 800, 801, 802 and 803 trains – 129.7 metres
- Five-car Class 180 trains – 116.52 metres
- Five-car Class 222 trains – 116.16 metres
- Six-car Class 717 trains – 121.7 metres
- Eight-car Class 379/387 trains – 163.12 metres
- Eight-car Class 700/0 trains – 162 metres
- Twelve-car Class 700/1 trains – 242.6 metres
Real Time Trains or my eyes have observed all these trains, except for the twelve-car Class 700 trains in Platforms 9 and 10 at King’s Cross.
It does appear that the shorter ten-car Class 897 trains improve utilisation of the platforms at King’s Cross station.
Could Twelve-Car Class 800, 801, 802 and 803 Trains Run Into King’s Cross?
Consider.
- LNER and Lumo have both said, they want to win passengers from the airlines on Anglo-Scottish routes.
- Extra paths on the East Coast Main Line are at a premium and hard to come by.
In Do Class 800/801/802 Trains Use Batteries For Regenerative Braking?, I found this extract in a Hitachi document on their web site.
To simplify the rearrangement and management of train configurations, functions are provided for identifying the train (Class 800/801), for automatically determining the cars in the trainset and its total length, and for coupling and uncoupling up to 12 cars in
normal and 24 cars in rescue or emergency mode.
So if say LNER or Lumo wanted a twelve-car train, it would be possible. It also looks like one twelve-car train can rescue another.
Train lengths would be as follows.
- Five-car Class 800, 801, 802 and 803 trains – 129.7 metres
- Six-car Class 800, 801, 802 and 803 trains – 155.7 metres
- Nine-car Class 800, 801, 802 and 803 trains – 233.7 metres
- Twelve-car Class 800, 801, 802 and 803 trains – 311.7 metres
- Twelve-car – Pair of six-car Class 800, 801, 802 and 803 trains – 311.4 metres
As Platform 0 is 305 metres and Platform 1 is 304 metres, I suspect that King’s Cross station could accept twelve-car formations of Hitachi Class 800, 801, 802 or 803 trains, with fairly minor modifications.
But what about other stations?
Berwick-on-Tweed
Both platforms are around 233/234 metres, so twelve-car trains couldn’t call, unless the platforms were lengthened.
Bradford Forster Square
From the pictures, that I took in Bradford Forster Square Station – 20th May 2025, of a pair of LNER five-car trains, I suspect that the new Platform 0 and the extended Platform 1 will accept twelve-car trains, or could easily be modified.
Darlington
Both platforms, where LNER call are over 350 metres long, so Darlington can handle twelve-car trains.
Doncaster
Doncaster has four long platforms and I am fairly sure, the station could be easily modified to handle twelve-car trains.
Durham
Both platforms are over 260 metres, so twelve-car trains couldn’t call, unless the platforms were substantially lengthened.
Edinburgh Waverley
Platform 5 and 6 at Edinburgh Waverley station were both lengthened to 275 metres to accept ten-car LNER trains in 2016. I suspect more lengthening will be needed.
Leeds
Platforms 8 and 11 at Leeds station are both over 320 metres, so should be long enough to accept twelve car LNER trains.
Newark Northgate
Platforms 1 and 2 at Newark Northgate station are only 133 metres. Some platform lengthening would be needed for twelve-car trains to be able to call.
Newcastle
Platforms 2, 3 and 4 at Newcastle station are 362, 304 and 268 metres respectively. I believe with small improvements, that the station could be easily modified to handle twelve-car trains.
Northallerton
Both platforms are around 261/270 metres, so twelve-car trains couldn’t call, unless the platforms were lengthened.
Peterborough
Platforms 3, 4 and 5 at Peterborough station are only 265 metres. Some platform lengthening would be needed for twelve-car trains to be able to stop.
Wakefield Westgate
Both platforms at Wakefield Westgate station are only 255 metres. Some platform lengthening would be needed for twelve-car trains to be able to stop.
York
Four platforms at York station are over 315 metres.
Could A Twelve-Car Class 800, 801, 802 and 803 Trains Run Between King’s Cross And Edinburgh?
This would surely be the ultimate competition for the airlines.
Consider.
- It would use a single twelve-car Hitachi train or a pair of six-car trains.
- It could be fitted with batteries, so it could use the Great Northern and Great Eastern Joint Line diversion, through Lincoln, when there is engineering works or overhead wiring troubles.
- It would use either Platform 0 or Platform 1 at King’s Cross.
- It would use a lengthened platform at Edinburgh.
- Peterborough, Doncaster, York, Darlington and Newcastle could be possible stops.
- I estimate an LNER layout would carry 696 Standard Class and 86 First Class passengers.
- I estimate that a Lumo layout would carry 965 Standard Class passengers.
Note that an Airbus A321neo single-aislr airliner can carry 244 passengers.
Lumo To Expand Scotland’s Rail Network With New London-Stirling Rail Route From Spring 2026
The title of this post is the same as this news item from Lumo.
These three bullet points act as sub-headings.
- Lumo has secured a new route connecting Stirling with London Euston, launching as early as Spring 2026, offering passengers five daily affordable services.
- The announcement comes as Lumo hosted a special event at Holyrood attended by MSPs and Scotland’s MPs, spotlighting Lumo’s contribution to enhancing rail connectivity for previously underserved communities in Scotland.
- The route will provide first-ever direct services to London for Whifflet, Greenfaulds, and Larbert, further boosting economic opportunities and travel options in Scotland.
This first paragraph adds some more details.
Lumo, the UK’s leading Open Access rail operator, today announced it has secured five Class 222 six-car trains for its forthcoming route between London Euston and Stirling, beginning as early as Spring 2026. This expansion aims to enhance travel choice and connectivity for passengers along the central belt of Scotland both to England and to Stirling, offering five daily services with the operator renowned for affordability and efficiency.
I have some thoughts.
What Is The Complete Route?
This is the complete route.
Lumo’s new route will link London Euston directly to Stirling, also calling at Milton Keynes, Nuneaton, Crewe, Preston, Carlisle, Lockerbie, Motherwell, Whifflet (serving Coatbridge), Greenfaulds (serving Cumbernauld) and Larbert.
It is fully-electrified and can support 125 mph running most, if not all, of the way.
There Are No Six-Car Class 222 Trains
Consider.
- Currently, five-car Class 222 trains seat 192 in Standard Class and 50 in First Class.
- Currently, seven-car Class 222 trains seat 236 in Standard Class and 106 in First Class.
- Lumo’s five-car Class 803 trains set 402 in Standard Class.
- Lumo’s trains have no First Class.
I estimate that a six-car Class 222 train, with all Standard Class seating would accommodate not far off the 402 seats of one of Lumo’s bog-standard Class 803 trains.
Having identical numbers of passengers on the two fleets, must surely bring operational advantages.
- A six-car Class 222 train could replace a five-car Class 803 train or vice-versa, if Lumo were short of trains.
- Class 222 trains are able to take the Great Northern and Great Eastern Joint Line and other diversions during times of engineering works.
- The Class 222 trains would be able to run between Euston and Rochdale.
- The Class 222 trains might be useful for developing services on routes without electrification.
In the future, a six-car Class 222 train could be directly replaced in Lumo’s fleet by a five-car battery-electric Class 803 train.
The Class 222 Trains Are Diesel-Powered
All the noise and vibration could be a problem, but if I am right about the interchangeability of the two fleets, then this gives some advantages too.
- Earlier delivery of Class 222 trains, than new Class 803 trains, may enable Lumo to start services between Euston and Stirling at an earlier date.
- Earlier delivery of Class 222 trains, may allow selective withdrawal of Class 803 trains for updating.
- A mixed fleet of diesel and electric trains may be able to run more services during engineering works, by using diversion routes without electrification.
- Short route extensions to Dundee or Perth could be tried to assess demand.
There could be some good reasons to get the Class 222 trains into service sooner rather than later.
Will The Diesel Class 222 Trains Be Replaced By Battery-Electric Class 803 Trains?
Although London And Edinburgh By Lumo Using the Joint Line Diversion, was also about Lumo’s proposed Euston and Rochdale service, it was mainly about using battery power to use the Great Northern and Great Eastern Joint Line to avoid engineering works or wiring problems.
Both train types have the following abilities.
- Ability to go between Stirling and Euston via the West Coast Main Line.
- Ability to go between Rochdale and Euston via the West Coast Main Line.
- Ability to go between Stirling and King’s Cross via the East Coast Main Line.
- Ability to go between Edinburgh and King’s Cross via the East Coast Main Line.
- Ability to handle the Great Northern and Great Eastern Joint Line on their own power.
- Ability to handle diversions of up to around a hundred miles on their own power.
As Lumo’s new battery-electric Class 803 trains are delivered, Lumo’s two Anglo-Scottish routes and the one to Rochdale can go all-electric.
Can Lumo Trains Run As Pairs?
I’ve not seen or heard if Lumo have done this, but as I wrote in Ten-Car Hull Trains, I’ve seen Lumo’s sister company Hull Trains run ten-car trains.
As Wikipedia says that both Class 222 and Class 803 trains can run in multiple formations with other trains from the same class, I have to assume it is possible, providing the Fat Controller agrees to the practice.
Has Heidi Alexander Really Said Yes?
After the launch at Holyrood, in front of MSPs and Scottish MPs, it would now be difficult to say No!
But then there’s a by-election to the Scottish Parliament in Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse on Thursday.
Is Lumo’s new route an easy drive from the constituency? A Scot, who has worked in the area said Yes!
Conclusion
I like FirstGroup’s plan to create a diesel fleet to introduce new services and back up their current ones, until the new battery-electric Class 803 trains are delivered.
The Lack Of Information At Edinburgh Waverley Cost Me £55.10
The ongoing works at Edinburgh Waverley ruined my day. I had intended to come up to the city to take some photographs for this blog and see an old friend, who like me is widowed.
I also wanted to take a train to Leven to see the new stations.
I have a very unusual skin and on some days I can’t use ticket machines, so I need to use a human in a ticket office.
Today was one of those days and to complicate matters, I couldn’t find the ticket office.
I also wasted more time finding platform 17 for Leven.
Going back to London, where I live, my friend advised me to take the escalators from Princes Street to get into the station, which I have used many times before.
But they were shut and I missed the 16:13 Lumo to London by about a minute.
To get home, I had to buy another ticket on LNER for £55.10.
If there had been more information, perhaps in leaflets or from real people around the station, I would have had a much better day.
A Day Trip To Leven From London
On Thursday, the 15th of May, I shall be taking a day trip by train from London King’s Cross to Leven in Fife.
I shall be doing it for the following reasons.
- To see the new Levenmouth Rail Link and its two new stations : Cameron Bridge and Leven.
- To prove that it is possible to do trips like these.
- To prove that it is still possible for me to do trips like these.
- To see a couple of old friends, who live North of the Border.
- I shall probably also ride the new section of the Edinburgh Tram.
I shall be leaving London on the Lumo service at 05:48 and returning on the 16:13, which gives me around six hours in Scotland.
Does Innovation Get Mr. Ed Miliband Better Prices To Doncaster?
The East Coast Main Line has ticketing unlike any other in the UK.
Turn up at any LNER station to go to any station that is served by trains from that station and you will be given a choice of the best prices at the ticket machines or at the booking office.
Effectively, you are sold your choice of the cheapest Advance tickets for your journey, at the time of booking.
In the last few months, I have taken three trips from London to Doncaster. All were priced between £20 and £25, with one trip on each of Grand Central, Hull Trains and LNER.
Some might argue it is because of the three Open Access operators on the route, that good value is available. But I would argue that it is down to the fact that because of the Open Access operators there is more seats on the route.
This ticketing model should be adopted on the West Coast Main Line and the Midland Main Line.
The ticketing has certainly modified my behaviour.
If I want to go to Sheffield, I go to Doncaster, as it’s a lot cheaper, then get a local train between Doncaster and Sheffield.
Ed Miliband Is A Doncaster MP
When he is going between his Doncaster North constituency and London, does he use last minute ticketing?
FirstGroup Makes Last-Minute Open Access Plea
The title of this post, is the same as that of this article on Railnews.
The article is definitely worth a full read.
A little bit of competition never hurt anybody, unless they weren’t very good.
I have already decided to give Great Socialist Railways a miss, unless I have a desperate need.
Newcastle Fans Had Few Trains To London
Yesterday, I felt LNER and Lumo would be cashing in, with Newcastle United playing at Wembley.
The finalists were settled on the 6th of February, so that surely gave Network Rail time to reorganise any engineering works so that LNER and Lumo could be running the maximum number of Newcastle United supporters to London.
Lumo didn’t run at all to London on the Sunday and all LNER trains went via the Stadium of Light.
I would have thought, that Network Rail’s inflexibility cost LNER and Lumo a good publicity opportunity.
Now That’s What I Call A Station!
Newsham station on the Northumberland Line opens on Monday and I was alerted to the design of the station, by this page on the Northumberland Chronicle.
I clipped this drone view of the station from the page.
Note.
- It almost looks like two stations, one for the Northbound line and one for the Southbound.
- There appears to be a by-pass for those not wanting to visit the station.
- There is a traditional step-free bridge with lifts.
- Each half-station appears to have bus stops, car parking, disabled car-parking and a drop-off lane.
- There is a well-marked walking route to bring travellers to the station.
This Google map shows the layout of the station.
To say it’s different is an understatement. But I like it and I can’t wait to jump on a Lumo to go and see it, in all its new reality.
I hope all those connected with the design and architecture have got evening wear, as given the awards they’re going to win, they’ll need them.
DfT Objects To Eight Open Access Applications
The title of this post is the same as that of an article in the March 2025 Edition of Modern Railways.
Surprise! Suprise! There are no prizes for innovation and risk, to be given out by Starmer’s Government Of All The Lawyers.
- Alliance Rail – Cardiff and Edinburgh – opposed
- Grand Central – London and York – opposed
- Hull Trains – London and Hull – opposed
- Hull Trains – London and Sheffield – opposed
- Lumo – London and Glasgow – opposed
- Lumo – London and Rochdale – opposed
- Virgin Trains – London and Liverpool – opposed
- Virgin Trains – London and Glasgow – opposed
Wrexham, Shropshire and Midlands Railway – London and Wrexham – supported.
Splitting And Joining Of Trains
Several of the objections, seem to be on grounds of capacity.
So why not pair up some services and split and join at a convenient station?
Hull Trains – A Hull and a Sheffield service could start together in London and split in Retford.
Lumo – A Newcastle and an Edinburgh service could start together in London and split in Newcastle.
Lumo – An Edinburgh and a Glasgow service could start together in London and split in Edinburgh.
Virgin Trains – A Liverpool and a Glasgow service would start together in London and split in Crewe.
A Bad Decision
I believe the Government’s decision is a very bad one.
At the weekend I wrote Sutton Station To Gatwick Airport By Hydrogen-Powered Bus, about my trip in a hydrogen-powered bus to Gatwick-Airport.
- The quality, performance and roadholding of this new zero-carbon bus was superb.
- I can’t wait to try out Wrightbus’s new hydrogen-powered coach in the next twelve months.
- In the future, I can see high speed hydrogen coaches steaming along the motorways of the UK and Ireland.
Hydrogen-powered coaches will do for cheap travel on the roads of these islands, what Ryanair and easyJet for did above our heads.
Sutton Station To Gatwick Airport By Hydrogen-Powered Bus
In Central London and Gatwick Airport For Free On A Freedom Pass, I indicated it was possible to go to Gatwick Airport for nothing, if you had a Freedom Pass, which is also a free bus pass for England.
This morning I took public transport to Gatwick Airport by this route.
- I took a 43 bus to London Bridge station.
- This bus terminates in the bus station in front of the train station, so it was a simple step-free entry into the part of the station, where Southern Trains terminate.
- I took a Southern Train to Sutton station.
- I then took a Metrobus 420 bus from Sutton station to Gatwick Airport.
These pictures show the journey.
Note.
- The bus stop is directly outside the entrance to Sutton station.
- Sutton station is step-free.
- The information on the Metrobus’s buses at Sutton station is poor.
- The bus had a 74 number plate, so was registered after September 1st, 2024.
- The bus said it was a hydrogen bus.
- The seats were comfortable with leather facings.
- The route was mainly through rural Surrey.
- There were sections of dual-carriageway road with continuous 40 mph running.
- There were a number of steep hills.
- Previously, I have been told by a Bradford Councillor, that the City of Bradford is going for hydrogen-powered buses , as the city has lots of steep hills.
- The unusual Reigate and Redhill War Memorial on the A25.
- The route goes past Hadworth, Reigate and Redhill stations.
- Just before Gatwick Airport, the bus called at East Surrey Hospital.
I have some thoughts.
Does This Hydrogen Bus Have Almost The Quality Passengers Would Expect From A Coach?
Consider.
- I was very impressed with the quality of the bus and its fittings.
- But its biggest assets were the ride and mouse-quiet noise and being vibration-free.
- It was certainly up there, with the best British buses on UK roads.
- Strangely, I never rode in any of London’s Green Line coaches of the 1950s and 1960s.
But as Wrightbus are selling hydrogen-powered single-decker buses to the Germans, the quality must be of a certain standard.
The Performance Of The Bus
I would sum up the bus as follows.
- The bus didn’t hang around and it was well-driven.
- On much of the dual-carriageway, the bus appeared to be at the maximum speed limit of 40 mph
- Ride and seats were comfortable.
- There was virtually no vibration.
- At times, you almost felt you were in a top-of-the-range coach.
- The running gear is from German company ZF, which certainly doesn’t hinder the ride.
- The journey from Sutton to Gatwick Airport is twenty miles and took about ninety minutes.
I would feel that if Wrightbus design their CoachH2 chassis to the same standard of this bus, they’ll have a difficulty to meet sales demand.
Wrightbus Hydrogen Buses For My Local Bus Route 141
Consider.
- The 141 bus route is my local bus, which gets me to Moorgate, Bank, London Bridge and Manor House.
- The length of the full route is twenty miles and it takes about an hour to go from London Bridge station to Palmers Green.
- The route is currently run by older Wrightbus hybrid diesel-electric buses.
- I suspect that modern hydrogen buses could last almost all day on one fill of hydrogen, with perhaps a top-up at lunchtime.
They would have no difficulty handling the route and would greatly increase the customers current rock-bottom satisfaction.
Hydrogen Buses In Leafy Suburbs
- Where I live, is not particularly leafy or a suburb.
- But I seems to remember, when I moved here, that some of my neighbours complained about the noise of the 76 bus route.
- So Transport for London put on some quieter buses.
I would expect, that Metrobus might use the mouse quieter hydrogen buses in post areas, to avoid annoyance.
Hydrogen Buses As Route Extenders
Effectively, the Metrobus route 420 is acting as a route extender for Southern and Thameslink services coming South from London.
As it is a quality bus, that gets a move on, I suspect that some travellers, who previously took a train to Sutton, Tadworth, Reigate, Redhill or other stations and were then picked up, may take a hydrogen bus to a more convenient bus stop.
Because of the long range of a hydrogen bus or coach, zero-carbon performance, should be achieved without any range anxiety for passengers, driver or bus company.
Onward From Oakhampton Parkway Station
Consider.
- In 2014, storms destroyed the railway at Dawlish in Devon.
- As there was no alternative route, the storms cut everything west of Dawlish off from the rest of the UK.
- It is now likely, that a Park-and-Ride station will be built close to Okehanpton, which commuters would use for travel to Exeter.
- The main road to the South-West ; the A 30 will pass nearby.
It would appear, that Okehampton Interchange station could be used, if Nepture decided to show his power again.
Hopefully, the emergency plan will scare Nepture away.
Lumo To The Scottish Borders
Consider.
- Lumo have applied to extend some of their Edinburgh services to Glasgow.
- Talking to a friend in the Scottish Borders, they said, that travelers drive to Newcastle or Morpeth to catch Lumo for London.
- Four or five Lumo services every day stop in each direction at Morpeth station.
- So would it be sensible to run a bus or coach through the Scottish Borders to connect with the Lumo services?
This Google Map shows Morpeth in relation to the Border towns.
Note.
- Morpeth is marked by the red arrow in the South-East corner of the map.
- Galashiels, Galashiels, Hawick, Jedburgh, Peebles, Saint Boswells and Selkirk can be picked out on the map.
- The coach service would probably terminate at Galashiels, as it has a large bus terminal and and a railway station.
- Click the map to show it to a larger scale.
Morpeth to Galashiels is 69 miles and it should take about an hour and a half.
Hydrogen Buses As Rail Replacement Buses
Consider.
- I have had Rail Replacement Coaches as opposed to buses a few times in the UK.
- Once on the East Coast Main Line but usually on the Great Eastern Main Line to Ipswich or Norwich.
- They are generally more suited to their task. as they are faster and more luxurious.
- Many of our major rail lines run alongside trunk roads or motorways or fast dual carriageways.
So because hydrogen buses and coaches a have superior performance, than their diesel cousins, will hydrogen be the better fuel for a Rail Replacement Bus.
Metrobus’s Hydrogen Buses
This press release on the Metrobus web site is entitled Hydrogen Buses.
This is the sub-heading.
Our commitment to Zero Emissions
As part of our commitment to reducing emissions, twenty new hydrogen fuelled buses will operate on Fastway routes 10 & 20. These new buses demonstrate an ongoing commitment to reducing our local emissions. They deliver against science-based targets set by Metrobus and its parent company, The Go-Ahead Group, of becoming a net zero business by 2045 and decarbonising our bus fleet by 2035.
Conclusion
This bus is the best I’ve ridden in.























































