An Extreme Day Out – Bradford Forster Square Station
It seems to be the fashion to go and visit somewhere far away in a day. So why not?
For my first trip in this vein, I decided on the spur of the moment to go to Bradford Forster Square station.
Why Did I Choose Bradford Forster Square Station?
There are three main reasons.
- A new platform has just opened at the station to handle the longest LNER trains.
- LNER are now running a seven trains per day (tpd) service via Leeds.
- I wanted to see how LNER’s walk-up ticketing performed on the route.
In addition, I wanted to see how the service performed, now that Bradford is this year’s UK City of Culture.
King’s Cross To Bradford Forster Square Station For £43.00 With A Railcard
I just missed the 11:03, so I booked the 13:03 for £43.00 with my Senior Railcard, from one of the numerous ticket machines in King’s Cross.
The train arrived on time in two hours 47 minutes for the 199.4 miles, which was an average speed of 72 mph.
In What Will Be The Fastest Times Possible Between London King’s Cross And Leeds?, I predicted this.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see with full digital signalling and a 125 mph average between London King’s Cross and Leeds.
- 125 mph Base Time – 89 minutes.
- Four Acceleration/Deceleration sections at 6 minutes each – 24 minutes.
- Three Dwell Times at 2 minutes each – 6 minutes
This would mean a total time of one hour and 59 minutes.
As my Bradford service took two hours and 28 minutes between London King’s Cross And Leeds, that would mean, that a time close to two hours and fifteen minutes could be possible between London King’s Cross and Bradford Forster Square stations.
There Weren’t Many Passengers Between Leeds And Bradford Forster Square Stations
These pictures show the nearly empty train and the small numbers, who alighted at Bradford Forster Square station.
But I don’t think three in the afternoon is a time, when many passengers will need to go between Leeds and Bradford Forster Square stations.
Bradford Forster Square Station
I described that station, with its new Platform 0 in Bradford Forster Square Station – 20th May 2025, where I said the station needed these additions.
The station needs a few additions, like a proper coffee shop, a better shop, ticket machines and toilets.
But it’s not been open very long.
Bradford Forster Square Station To King’s Cross For £25.70 With A Railcard
I bought this ticket from a Yorkshire Lass in the Ticket Office.
There Weren’t Many Passengers Between Bradford Forster Square And King’s Cross Stations
Only about a dozen passengers boarded the train at Bradford Forster Square and some got out at Leeds.
In fact the train wasn’t very busy all the way to London with perhaps twenty passengers in my carriage, when we arrived in King’s Cross.
Will This Service Develop Into A Two-Hourly London King’s Cross And Leeds Or Bradford Forster Square Service With A Trans-Yorkshire Service Tacked On?
Currently, it is the following.
- An express service between King’s Cross and Leeds with stops at Peterborough, Doncaster and Wakefield Westgate.
- An express service between King’s Cross and Bradford Forster Square with stops at Peterborough, Doncaster, Wakefield Westgate and Leeds.
- A local service between Doncaster and Bradford Forster Square with stops at Wakefield Westgate and Leeds.
- Additional calls on some services are at Stevenage, Grantham, Retford and Shipley.
In addition the following would be possible.
- Pairs of trains could split at Leeds, with one train going to Bradford Forster Square and the other train to somewhere like Harrogate, Huddersfield or Skipton.
- Additional stops could be added between Leeds and Bradford Forster Square without slowing services between Leeds and King’s Cross.
But then where does this fit with LNER buying ten CAF tri-mode trains?
Surely they would get better flexibility, if they’d bought more Azumas, which could run on the electrification all the way to Bradford Forster Square, Huddersfield and Skipton. If some had batteries, they could run all the way to Harrogate.
LNER’s Disabled-Unfriendly Refreshments System
I am not disabled, but I only have one fully-working hand, as the school bully broke my left humerus and I have difficulty doing certain things with my left hand, due to the quality of the care I received in Highlands Hospital in Winchmore Hill.
Having a left-sided stroke didn’t help either.
One of the things, I can’t do is take pictures on my mobile phone, so I always carry a proper camera. Because of the injury, I have also never read a QR code with my phone.
On LNER’s trains to get a drink, you either have to order it by reading a QR code or walking to the buffet.
As on the train going North, the buffet was closed, I went thirsty.
In future, if I have a choice of trains, I’ll choose one with a trolly service.
Are The CAF Tri-Mode Trains Part Of A Plan To Drive Open Access Operators Out Of Yorkshire?
This is possibly the only scenario that makes sense.
The ten-car tri-mode trains would be used to take over Grand Central’s services to Bradford Interchange and Sunderland, and Hull Trains services to Hull.
After Monday, LNER are now running more daily services to Bradford Forster Square, than Grand Central are to Bradford Interchange.
If like my return to London on Tuesday, you can buy a walk-up ticket on LNER, then why would you travel on Grand Central.
Conclusion
£68.70 is not a bad price for what is in effect a walk-up day return to Bradford Forster Square.
I’ve just looked how much, I would be charged for an advance ticket on Friday, using the trains I used on Tuesday.
I could get a ticket for £25.70 going North and £28.95 going South or a total of £54.65. All are with my Senior Railcard.
But it does look to me, that LNER and the Government are trying to drive Grand Central off the Bradford route.
If I am right and Hull Trains and Lumo will be next in LNER’s sights, then what was Starmer and other Government ministers doing at the launch of orders for new trains for Grand Central, Hull Trains and Lumo?
New £24m Platform To Boost City Train Services
The title of this post is the same as that of this article on the BBC.
These are the first three paragraphs.
Bradford’s Forster Square station is to get a new £24m platform to boost rail services in the city.
Rail Minister Huw Merriman said the government-funded scheme would futureproof the station for generations to come.
It could lead to five more trains to London each day, the Department for Transport said.
There are positive comments from Bradford Council leader Susan Hinchcliffe and LNER.
These are my thoughts.
Where Will The New Platform Be Built?
This OpenRailway Map sows the layout of the current three platforms at Bradford Forster Square station.
The Wikipedia entry for Bradford Forster Square station, says this about platform usage.
During off-peak hours most trains use platforms 1 (for Skipton) and 2 (Leeds and Ilkley) – platform 3 is mainly used during weekday peak periods and in the evening, though a spare set is usually stabled here between 09.00 and 16.00 each weekday.
This picture was taken on the only time I visited the station in 2017.
Note.
- The middle platform is numbered 2b.
- As Bradford Forster Square station is a terminal station, I must have taken this picture from the Southern end of the station.
- From Network Rail’s plan of the station, it looks like Platform 1 is on the right or East and Platform 3 is on the left or West.
This page on the EnglandRover web site confirms that Platform 3 is the Western platform.
This article on the Bradford Argus is entitled Work On New Platform To Begin In Spring After £24m Boost.
This is a paragraph.
The extra platform will be built at the side of the station closest to Forster Square Retail Park. It means the station will expand outwards by a few metres, and the platform construction will require Network Rail to purchase a strip of land from retail park owners British Land.
This Google Map shows where the platform will be placed.
Note.
- The Forster Square Retail Park is in the North-East corner of the map.
- The glazed roof covers Platforms 1 and 2.
- There are trains in Platforms 1 and 3.
- Fitting in the new platform could be a bit tight.
Will the platforms be renumbered or will the new platform be called Platform 0?
Project Management Considerations
Consider.
- Bradford will be the UK City of Culture in 2025.
- British Land will want to have minimal disruption to the operation of their retail park.
For these reasons, all parties will want an early completion.
But as the site should have good access through the retail park, I could envisage that an early completion can be delivered by good project management.
How Many Platforms Will LNER Need?
Consider on the 1st of February 2024, four LNER trains visited the station.
- All trains were Class 801 trains.
- One train was a nine-car train and the others were a pair of five-car trains.
- Two trains used each of Platforms 1 and 2.
- LNER are planning to add five more trains per day (tpd), which will be a total of fourteen movements per day.
I suspect under normal operation, LNER could manage with one platform, as LNER’s movements are less than one per hour.
Conclusion
This new platform seems to be a good plan, that adds much-needed capacity for the short term and provides capacity for more services in the future.
The Long Platforms At Liverpool Street Station
I was on Liverpool Street station today and I took these pictures.
It got me thinking.
- I was standing On Platform 1 and on Platform 2 was a pair of five-car Class 720 trains coupled together.
- The pair of five-car Class 720 trains would be 244 metres long, which mean that the platforms could handle nine-car Class 800 or Class 345 trains.
- There would appear to be plenty of platform space in Liverpool Street station.
- In Azuma Test Train Takes To The Tracks As LNER Trials Possible New Route, I talked about how LNER were checking an Azuma train could use the route to Cleethorpes.
- In London North Eastern Railway Runs Trial Train To Liverpool Street, I talked about how LNER had ran a train into Liverpool Street.
The general consensus seems to be, that points 3 and 4, are about several things.
Adding Grimsby and Cleethorpes to LNER’s list of destinations.
Possibly adding Spalding, Sleaford, Market Rasen and Barnetby to LNER’s list of destinations.
Providing a faster service between London and Grimsby/Cleethorpes.
Providing a diversion route because of engineering or blockades on the East Coast Main Line.
Nearly twenty years ago, I used to play real tennis, with a guy, who was on a committee, that planned the future of the Cambridge region.
- One of the things he said was that Cambridge was full and there is not enough lab space, factories and housing.
- He felt that Peterborough would make an excellent satellite for Cambridge.
- However, transport links and especially the trains are not the best between Cambridge and Peterborough.
- I wonder, if Cambridge’s overcrowding is spreading the Cambridge Effect into Lincolnshire and the number of rail passengers between Lincoln and Cambridge is growing.
So have LNER taken the bull by the horns and are planning to run a London Liverpool Street and Cleethorpes service via Cambridge?
- It might perhaps run at least six trains per day (tpd) in both directions.
- Stops could include Stratford, Cambridge South, Cambridge, Cambridge North, Ely, March, Peterborough, Spalding, Sleaford, Lincoln, Market Rasen, Barnetby and Grimsby Town.
- Trains could be a five-car Class 800 train.
- The route is fully-electrified between London and Ely.
Note.
- The London King’s Cross and Lincoln service could be discontinued.
- Connection between Cambridge and Lincolnshire is much improved.
- The developing energy powerhouse in North-East Lincolnshire gets a connection to Cambridge and London.
- There could be same-platform interchange at Peterborough for passengers between Cambridge and the North.
- By going via Cambridge, one less train needs to use the bottleneck over the Digswell viaduct.
LNER are trying to get the most out of the new December 2024 East Coast Main Line timetable and I do wonder if a London Liverpool Street and Cleethorpes servce is part of that exercise.
Northumberland Council To Campaign For Better Rural Train Services
The title of this post is the same as that of this article on Rail Advent.
These are the first three paragraphs.
In response to the reduction in the number of trains serving Morpeth and Berwick in the new East Coast Main Line timetable, Northumberland County Council has pledged to continue campaigning hard for improved rail services for communities along the line and beyond.
Councillor Glen Sanderson said the new timetable “Sacrifices the North east’s rail connectivity in order to improve it for the rest of the country.”
The new timetable was due to be introduced last May 2023, but was deferred after the North East Joint Transport Committee said that it was wholly unacceptable. However, the new timetable shows very little improvement from the original. Although more frequent trains will operate between London and Edinburgh, not all of them will stop at Morpeth or Berwick, which are the services the council has been fighting hard for as they are key population centres.
The problems are that between Newcastle and Edinburgh are.
- The railway is only double-track all of the way, with a passing loop South of Berwick.
- The maximum speed is 125 mph for about 40 % of the track, 100/110 mph for another 30 %, with the rest slower.
- Berwick, Morpeth and the new stations at East Linton and Reston are only two platform stations.
The capacity needs to be increased, so that more trains can use the line.
These are my thoughts.
Install Digital Signalling
It has been claimed that digital signalling will add another train per hour (tph) between Stevenage and Doncaster.
So if it was able to do the same between Newcastle and Edinburgh, it might be the first solution to try.
All Passenger Trains Capable Of Running At 125 mph
In Call For ETCS On King’s Lynn Route, I outlined the problem with fast services to Cambridge, Ely and Kings Lynn, where the rains will need 125 mph capability to keep out of the way of LNER’s Azumas on the East Coast Main Line.
There will be a similar problem between Newcastle and Edinburgh.
Improve The Tracks
This would improve more sections of 125 mph running and perhaps better turnbacks at Morpeth and Berwick.
Conclusion
Quite a bit of work will need to be done to get the timetable to the standard the customers require.
Are LNER Going To Take On The Airlines?
Nine years ago, I wrote Edinburgh – Plane Or Train?, after a trip to Scotland, where I took easyJet up and came back in First Class by train.
- Both trips were about five hours door-to-door.
- The flight was about six quid more,
- But I got free food and drink on the train.
- Security on the plane was a pain.
- I had to take my passport for identification at Stansted.
I haven’t flown internally in Great Britain since, although, I have flown to Belfast.
For shorter flights the market is going towards rail, as these posts seem to suggest.
- 2.7M Tonnes Of Co2 Could Be Saved Per Year If UK Domestic Flights Went Electric
- Air Travellers To Be Hit By Carbon Charge On All Tickets
- Climate Change ‘May Curb Growth In UK Flying’
- France Bans Short-Haul Flights To Cut Carbon Emissions
- KLM Replaces Plane With High Speed Train
- Lumo Carbon Data Shows Its Trains Are 22 Times Greener Than Flying
- Next Time I’ll Go By Train
- Ryanair One Of Europe’s Top Polluters, EU Data Suggests
- Stop Taking Internal Flights And Go Green, Says Lib Dem Contender Davey
The climate seems to be turning against flying short-haul.
This is a paragraph, in this press release from LNER, which is entitled First Tri-Mode Long Distance Trains For The East Coast Main Line.
This new fleet of trains will keep LNER on track to reduce its emissions by 67 per cent by 2035 and be net zero by 2045. LNER has already reduced carbon emissions by 50 per cent compared with 2018/19. Per mile, LNER trains produce 15 times less carbon emissions than a domestic flight.
Are LNER building a number of climate-based sticks, with which to beat the airlines on the routes, where they compete?
These are my thoughts on the various routes, where LNER compete with airlines.
Newcastle
Newcastle is an interesting one.
- Newcastle station is in the city centre and is on the Tyne and Wear Metro.
- London King’s Cross is one of London’s major Underground hubs.
- There are lots of buses and local trains within walking distance of both stations.
- There are three trains every two hours and an additional eight trains per day (tpd) between the two London King’s Cross and Newcastle stations.
- Lumo also run five tpd on the route.
- There are generally no security delays at rail stations.
- London King’s Cross is laid out to maximise passenger flows. If it gets busy, everybody just walks out into King’s Cross Square.
- I’ve never had a problem at Newcastle station with overcrowding.
Perhaps, if you live near one of the airports, flying is more convenient.
LNER’s weapons against the airlines between London King’s Cross and Newcastle will be convenience and journey times.
Convenience is all about the location of the stations, their excellent local transport networks and good walking routes around the station.
Journey times will only get better, as the magic of digital in-cab signalling, allows the Azumas, the new CAF tri-mode long distance trains and the few remaining InterCity 225s to show what they were designed to do.
Dalton-on-Tees, where the first phase of the digitally signalling will end, is 39.8 miles South of Newcastle, so once the Newcastle train is passes Dalton-on-Tees on the East Coast Main Line, it will be a digital-signalled electrified railway all the way to Woolmer Green.
- Dalton-on-Tees is 39.8 miles South of Newcastle
- Woolmer Green is 244.8 miles South of Newcastle.
- Dalton-on-Tees and Woolmer Green is 205 miles.
- Newcastle and Dalton-on-Tees takes 37 minutes.
- Woolmer Green and King’s Cross takes 18 minutes
- Trains take typically an average three hours and nine minutes between London and Newcastle.
- A typical train time by LNER between Dalton-on-Tees and Woolmer Green is two hours and 14 minutes.
- This is an average speed of 91.8 mph between Dalton-on-Tees and Woolmer Green.
- Between London King’s Cross and Newcastle is fully-electrified.
I can build a table of timings and savings at various average speeds.
- 120 mph – 103 minutes – two hours and 38 minutes – 31 minutes
- 125 mph – 98 minutes – two hours and 33 minutes – 36 minutes
- 130 mph – 95 minutes – two hours and 30 minutes – 39 minutes
- 135 mph – 91 minutes – two hours and 26 minutes – 43 minutes
- 140 mph – 88 minutes – two hours and 23 minutes – 46 minutes
Note.
- The first field is the average speed between Dalton-on-Tees and Woolmer Green.
- The second field is the time between Dalton-on-Tees and Woolmer Green.
- The third field is the time between London and Newcastle.
- The fourth field is the saving over current timings.
- The London and Newcastle time is calculated by adding the times for the three sections together.
I have regularly timed trains at a very constant 125 mph, so with digital signalling, I suspect an average of 130 mph is possible.
This would mean, times of a few minutes under two hours and thirty minutes could be possible between London and Newcastle.
Edinburgh
Edinburgh builds on the improvements South of Newcastle.
Edinburgh station Waverley is a well-connected station.
- There are lots of buses, local trains and the Edinburgh Tram within walking distance of Edinburgh Waverley station.
- There are three trains every two hours and an additional seven tpd between the London King’s Cross and Edinburgh Waverley stations.
- Lumo also run five tpd on the route.
- Trains take typically an average four hours and thirty minutes between London and Edinburgh Waverley.
- Any savings because of the digital in-cab signalling between London and Newcastle can be applied to London and Edinburgh Waverley services.
As my calculations showed that averaging 130 mph between Dalton-on-Tees and Woolmer Green could save 39 minutes on journey times, I am fairly sure than a sub-four hour journey time will be possible between London and Edinburgh Waverley.
It should also be noted that that the power supply has been improved between Newcastle and Edinburgh Waverley.
- The distance between Newcastle and Edinburgh Waverley is 124.2 miles
- Newcastle and Edinburgh Waverley takes around one hour and 30 minutes.
- This is an average speed of 82.8 mph between Newcastle and Edinburgh Waverley.
- Between London King’s Cross and Edinburgh Waverley is fully-electrified.
As the record time for between London King’s Cross and Edinburgh Waverley was set by an InterCity225 train in 1993 at three hours and twenty-nine minutes, I suspect that with more digital signalling and some track improvements, that there are more journey time improvements to be squeezed out.
I certainly believe that a time of three hours and fifty minutes between London and Edinburgh Waverley will be regularly achieved. This is a journey time saving of around forty minutes.
Dundee
Dundee has an airport and a station on the East Coast Main Line.
Trains between London King’s Cross and Dundee take around five hours and 45 minutes.
LNER run three trains per day to and from London King’s Cross and one tpd to and from Leeds.
CrossCountry also run services.
Loganair has two flights per day to Heathrow.
Aberdeen
Aberdeen builds on the improvements South of Edinburgh.
The four direct tpd between London and Aberdeen take around seven hours and ten minutes.
This should come down to around six hours and thirty minutes with the journey time savings between London King’s Cross and Edinburgh Waverley.
Will this tempt travellers from the airlines?
Battery-Electric Trains To Dundee And Aberdeen
One thing that will help, is that Edinburgh and Aberdeen is to be partially electrified.
InPiling Work To Get Underway To Electrify Line To Fife, I included this Network Rail map of the electrification.
This map has been downloaded from the Network Rail web site.
The electrification is split into four phases.
- Haymarket and Dalmeny – 25 km
- Kirkcaldy and Thornton North – 25 km.
- Lochgelly and Thornton North – 20 km.
- Thornton North and Ladybank – 34 km.
Note.
- The last three phases of electrification connect to Thornton North.
- The new rail link to Leven will also be electrified. and connected to Thornton North.
- The Forth Bridge is not to be electrified.
As Ladybank station is just 91.4 miles from Aberdeen, I suspect LNER will use Hitachi Intercity Battery Hybrid Trains to serve Aberdeen.
If these trains haven’t got the range, then I suspect LNER’s new CAF Tri-Mode Trains could handle the route.
Inverness
Inverness has a problem.
Zero-carbon trains will be unlikely to get to the city without full electrification of the Highland Main Line.
- Dunblane is the nearest electrified station to Inverness, but it is 146.2 miles away over a route with lots of steep climbs.
- I doubt that a battery-electric train could handle that route.
One solution would be for LNER to run the new CAF Tri-Mode Trains to Inverness using HVO or biodiesel.
Glasgow
Glasgow is the only other Scottish city with an airport and good rail connections to the South.
I am sure that Avanti West Coast will target airline passengers, if LNER prove it is a successful policy.
Other Factors
These are other factors, that will come into a traveller’s choice.
First Class
Some travellers like a bit more comfort and service.
Ability To Work
Some travellers like to work on a train.
You Don’t Get Tables On a Plane
I like to open a paper or magazine flat, which is difficult on a plane.
Views Tend To Be Better On a Train
Providing you get a window!
Parking Tends To Be Better At An Airport
But it may be more expensive!
Security Is Less Hassle On A Train
At the moment!
You Don’t Need To Prove Your Identity On A Train
Not in the UK! Yet!
Conclusion
It looks like LNER can offer the airlines to four of our major Northern cities serious zero-carbon competition.
The Data Sheet For Hitachi Battery Electric Trains
Was I just slow to spot this data sheet or has it only just been released?
You can download a copy from this page on the Hitachi web site.
In a section on the page, which is entitled Intercity Battery Trains, this is said.
A quick and easy application of battery technology is to install it on existing or future Hitachi intercity trains. Adding just one battery reduces emissions by more than 20% and offers cost savings of 20-30%.
Our intercity battery powered trains can cover 70km on non-electrified routes, operating at intercity speeds at the same or increased performance. Hitachi Rail’s modular design means this can be done without the need to re-engineer or rebuild the train and return them to service as quickly as possible for passengers.
These are my initial thoughts.
Plug-and-Play
It looks like the train is plug-and-play.
A diesel engine will be swapped for a battery-pack and the train’s computer controls the power sources accordingly.
Hitachi’s Battery Philosophy Explained
This is said on the data sheet.
Battery technology has the potential to play a significant role in the future of sustainable rail mobility, setting
the rail industry on the path to full intercity decarbonisation by 2050.
Installing batteries on intercity trains can complement electrification and provide a low emission alternative
to domestic air travel.Our retrofit solution for intercity trains offers phased replacement of diesel engines at the time that they would
have been due for their regular heavy maintenance overhaul, replacing each engine in turn until trains are fully battery electric. The solution delivers fuel cost savings and lowers CO2 emissions by at least 20% for every engine replaced, and a 20% reduction in whole life maintenance costs – well within the battery’s life span of 8-10 years.
Performance On Battery Power
The data sheet gives these bullet points.
- 750kW peak power
- Weight neutral.
- At least 20% lower CO2 emissions
- 70km on non-electrified routes
- 20% reduction in whole life maintenance costs
- Up to 30% fuel cost savings
- Zero emissions in and out of stations
- Charge on the move
- 10 year life span
Note.
- 750 kW peak power, is around the power of the diesel-engine, that will be replaced.
- I wouldn’t be surprised that powerwise, the battery pack looks like a diesel engine.
- Weight neutral means that acceleration, performance and handling will be unchanged.
- Batteries are easier to maintain than diesels.
- It is stated that a train can be fully-decarbonised.
I have a feeling these trains are no ordinary battery-electric trains.
Seventy Kilometre Range On Battery
Seventy kilometres is 43.5 miles.
This may not seem much, but the data sheet says this.
Our battery hybrid trains can cover 70km on non-electrified routes, operating at intercity speeds at the same
or increased performance. By identifying the routes with short non-electrified sections of 70km or less, we could
see the replacement of existing diesel trains with fully battery-operated trains on those routes within a year.
And, using battery power to avoid electrifying the hardest and most expensive areas, such as tunnels and bridges,
enables flexibility on electrification, minimising passenger disruption during upgrades.
Note.
- It looks like the trains can operate at 125 mph on battery power, where the track allows it. But then the rolling restistance of steel wheel on steel rail, is much lower, than that of rubber tyres on tarmac.
- Hitachi seem to have developed a philosophy on how the trains will be used.
- Hitachi’s pantographs, go up and down with all the alacrity of a whore’s drawers. They will be ideal for a short length of electrification.
I think these LNER routes could be immediately decarbonised.
- LNER – London and Harrogate , where only 18.3 miles is unelectrified. Trains may not need charging, as a full battery could handle both ways.
- LNER – London and Hull, where 36.1 miles is unelectrified. A short length of electrification to charge trains would be needed at Hull.
- LNER – London and Lincoln, where only 16.7 miles is unelectrified. Trains would not need charging, as a full battery could handle both ways.
- LNER – London and Middlesbrough, where only 20.3 miles is unelectrified. Trains would not need charging, as a full battery could handle both ways.
Note.
- It looks like some services could start fairly soon, once batteries are available.
- Hull Trains could use the 70 km batteries and charging at Hull, as it passed through. This would decarbonise Hull Trains passenger operations.
- Services to Aberdeen, Cleethorpes and Inverness would be out of range of the initial Hitachi trains.
Could the last point, partially explain the purchase of the CAF tri-mode trains, which I wrote about in First Tri-Mode Long Distance Trains For The East Coast Main Line?
We shall see what we shall see.
But having a choice of battery-electric or tri-mode trains will enable route development and decarbonisation.
What Is The Size Of The Battery Pack?
In How Much Power Is Needed To Run A Train At 125 Or 100 mph?, I estimated that to maintain 125 mph, a Class 801 train has a usage figure of 3.42 kWh per vehicle mile.
If a five-car Class 800 can run 70 km or 43.5 miles at 125 mph, as indicated by Hitachi, then the battery size can be calculated.
3.42 * 5 * 43.5 = 743.85 kWh
As the battery pack can supply 750 kW according to the data sheet, this looks like this will run the train for an hour.
Is that coincidence or a design criteria?
What Battery Capacity Would Be Needed For A Hundred Miles?
For a five-car train, this is the energy needed for a hundred miles.
3.42 *5 * 100 = 1710 kWh or three batteries.
For a nine-car train, this is the energy needed for a hundred miles.
3.42 *9 * 100 = 3078 kWh or five batteries.
It looks like all diesel engines will be replaced by batteries.
Will Class 801 Trains Swap Their Single Diesel Engine For a Battery Power Pack?
Consider.
- Class 801 trains have a single diesel engine for emergency power.
- Lumo’s Class 803 trains, are all-electric with a battery-pack for emergency hotel power only.
- Hitachi must have full details on the performance of Lumo’s trains.
- The East Coast Main Line is notorious for the wires to come tumbling down.
- The diesel engine and the battery pack appear to weigh the same.
- Batteries cost less to maintain than diesels.
I can’t see why the single diesel engine can’t be replaced by a standard battery pack, without loosing any functionality.
What Would Be The Range Of A Fully Battery-Electric Train?
This is a paragraph from a data sheet.
Our retrofit solution for intercity trains offers phased replacement of diesel engines at the time that they would
have been due for their regular heavy maintenance overhaul, replacing each engine in turn until trains are fully battery electric. The solution delivers fuel cost savings and lowers CO2 emissions by at least 20% for every engine replaced, and a 20% reduction in whole life maintenance costs – well within the battery’s life span of 8-10 years.
Note.
- It looks like Hitachi are expecting operators to replace engines in turn.
- Replacing engines with batteries saves the operators money.
As a five-car Class 800 train has three diesel engines and a nine-car train has five engines, does this mean that the range of fully-batteried Class 800 train is 70 km or 210 km?
- A fully-batteried Class 800 train will weigh the same as the current diesel.
- One battery can drive the train for 70 km at 125 mph according to Hitachi.
- There are no branches of electrified lines that are 125 mph lines without electrification.
- I would assume that the train can use regenerative braking to recharge the batteries.
- 210 kilometres is 130 miles.
I don’t know much about the electrical systems of Hitachi’s trains, but it is likely that there will be an electrical bus to distribute power from one end of the train to the other.
So a five-car Class 800 train with three fully-charged battery packs could have over 2 MWh of electricity on board, that could be used for traction.
- Applying the usage figure of 3.42 kWh per vehicle mile, gives a range for the five-car train of at least 117 miles.
- The equivalent figure for a nine-car train will be at least 121 miles.
These distances would open up routes like these on the East Coast Main Line.
- LNER – London King’s Cross and Aberdeen – 91.4 miles – Charge before return.
- LNER/Hull Trains – London King’s Cross and Beverley via Temple Hirst junction – 44.3 miles – No Charging needed before return.
- Grand Central – London King’s Cross and Bradford Interchange via Shaftholme junction – 47.8 miles – No Charging needed before return.
- LNER – London King’s Cross and Cleethorpes via Newark and Lincoln – 63.9 miles – Charge before return.
- LNER – London King’s Cross and Harrogate via Leeds – 18.3 miles – No Charging needed before return.
- LNER – London King’s Cross and Inverness– 146.2 miles – Charge before return.
- LNER/Hull Trains – London King’s Cross and Hull via Temple Hirst junction – 36.1 miles – No Charging needed before return.
- LNER – London King’s Cross and Middlesbrough via Northallerton – 20.3 miles – No Charging needed before return.
- LNER – London King’s Cross and Scarborough via York – 42.1 miles – No Charging needed before return.
- LNER/Grand Central – London King’s Cross and Sunderland via Northallerton – 47.4 miles – No Charging needed before return.
Note.
- The miles are the longest continuous distance without electrification.
- Only Aberdeen, Cleethorpes and Inverness would need to charge trains before return.
- Inverness may be too far. But is it in range of LNER’s new CAF tri-mode trains?
The battery range would also allow LNER to use the Lincoln diversion on the Joint Line.
Why Didn’t LNER Buy More Azumas?
This puzzles me and I suspect it puzzles other people too.
Surely, an all Azuma fleet will be easier to manage.
But in this article on Modern Railways, which is entitled LNER Orders CAF Tri-mode Sets, this is said.
Modern Railways understands the new fleet will be maintained at Neville Hill depot in Leeds and, like the ‘225’ sets, will be used predominantly on services between London and Yorkshire, although unlike the ‘225s’ the tri-modes, with their self-power capability, will be able to serve destinations away from the electrified network such as Harrogate and Hull.
Note.
- Hull would possibly need work to provide some form of charging for battery-electric Azumas, but Harrogate is close enough to be served by a one-battery Azuma.
- The CAF Tri-mode sets would certainly handle routes like Cleethorpes, Middlesbrough and Sunderland, but would they really need a ten-car train.
- Ten-car trains would also be busy on the Leeds route.
- The UK is going to need more 125 mph trains for Cross Country, Grand Central, Grand Union, TransPennine Express and possibly other train companies.
- Has Hitachi got the capacity to build the trains in the UK?
So has the Government given the order to CAF to create a level of competition?
Conclusions
These are my conclusions about Hitachi’s battery packs for Class 80x trains, which were written in November 2023.
- The battery pack has a capacity of 750 kWh.
- A five-car train needs three battery-packs to travel 100 miles.
- A nine-car train needs five battery-packs to travel 100 miles.
- The maximum range of a five-car train with three batteries is 117 miles.
- The maximum range of a nine-car train with five batteries is 121 miles.
As battery technology gets better, these distances will increase.
Hitachi have seen my figures.
They also told me, that they were in line with their figures, but new and better batteries would increase range.
In July 2025, I wrote Batteries Ordered For Grand Central Inter-City Trains, which mentions the following.
- Grand Central’s trains will be electric-diesel-battery hybrid inter-city trainsets.
- The trains will have lithium ion phosphate batteries.
- The trains will be delivered in 2028.
- The batteries will be smaller and more powerful, than current batteries.
This is also said about safety, hazards and cybersecurity.
The Safety Integrity Level 2 and IEC 61508 compliant battery management system will detect and mitigate hazards and meet the IEC 62243 cybersecurity standard.
These batteries would appear to give Hitachi and Grand Central Trains everything they want and need.
It looks like the new battery chemistry, will give Hitachi extra range.
Yorkshire To See More LNER Services And Longer Trains
The title of this post, is the same as that of this article on Rail UK.
These are the two introductory paragraphs.
London North Eastern Railway (LNER) is meeting an increase in demand from leisure travellers by adding more services and thousands more seats on trains between Yorkshire and London every Sunday.
Sundays are now one of the most popular days for journeys with 30% more customers travelling across the 956-mile LNER network than in 2019.
From December 2023, three new services and longer trains will be introduced on Sundays between London and Yorkshire.
Derby Alstom Train Factory Jobs Fear As Orders Dry Up
The title of this post, is the same as that of this article on the BBC.
This is the sub-heading.
Derby City Council is seeking talks with train builder Alstom over reports it could be about to lay off workers.
These two paragraphs introduce the story.
The firm’s Litchurch Lane site is the only UK train factory able to design, build, engineer and test trains for domestic and export markets.
About 2,000 people work at the factory but the firm says its current order book only runs until early 2024.
This could be another serious problem for High Speed Two.
Could LNER Use High Speed Two Classic-Compatible Trains?
In LNER Seeks 10 More Bi-Modes, I discuss how LNER are needing ten more bi-mode trains to expand their services.
Consider.
- One of LNER’s predecessors used to run Eurostar trains between Kings Cross and Leeds
- A High Speed Two Classic-Compatible trains are 200 metres long, as against the 233.7 metres of a nine-car Class 801 train.
- High Speed Two Classic-Compatible trains will run on the East Coast Main Line, when High Speed Two fully opens.
- London to Doncaster, Edinburgh, Leeds, Newcastle and York are all fully electrified routes.
So if all these fully-electric routes, were to be run using High Speed Two Classic-Compatible trains, this would release a number of Class 800 and Class 801 trains, which could be converted to bi-modes or battery-electric variants.
London and Edinburgh In Three-And-A-Half Hours
This is a paragraph from the Wikipedia entry for the InterCity 225 train.
The InterCity 225 was designed to achieve a peak service speed of 140 mph (225 km/h); during a test run in 1989 on Stoke Bank between Peterborough and Grantham, an InterCity 225 was recorded at a speed of 162 mph (260.7 km/h). Its high speed capabilities were again demonstrated via a 3hr 29mins non-stop run between London and Edinburgh on 26 September 1991. British regulations have since required in-cab signalling on any train running at speeds above 125 mph (201 km/h) preventing such speeds from being legally attained in regular service. Thus, except on High Speed 1, which is equipped with cab signalling, British signalling does not allow any train, including the InterCity 225, to exceed 125 mph (201 km/h) in regular service, due to the impracticality of correctly observing lineside signals at high speed.
If in-cab digital signalling were to be installed between London and Edinburgh, I believe that the three-and-a-half hour timing can be regularly achieved by a High Speed Two Classic-Compatible train.
I also believe that at least one train per hour (tph) between London and Edinburgh could achieve the three-and-a-half hour timing.
High Speed Two are promising a 3:48 time between London and Edinburgh.
It could be a Lumo-squasher!
A one tph service would need eight trains, but would release eight nine-car Class 801 trains.
Euston and Glasgow
This might be another route, where High Speed Two Classic-Compatible trains could be used.
Conclusion
LNER gets some more trains and Derby gets more work.
But the biggest benefits would be that, the trains would get a thorough testing before High Speed Two opens and passengers would get a view of the shape of things to come.
London North Eastern Railway Runs Trial Train To Liverpool Street
The title of this post, is the same as that of this article on Rail Advent.
These two paragraphs, describe why this was done.
In an effort to mitigate the effect on passengers during disruption to services, London North Eastern Railway (LNER) ran one of its Azuma trains from Finsbury Park to London Liverpool Street during the early hours of this morning, Friday, 14th July.
The trial run took place to determine the long-term feasibility of diverting services during periods of planned disruption or when significant engineering works were taking place.
There doesn’t seem to have been any problems.
- The route in from Finsbury Park station went through Canonbury, Dalston Kingsland, Hackney Central, Homerton, Hackney Wick, Stratford and Bethnal Green stations, which was a distance of 9.6 miles.
- The route out to Finsbury Park station went through Bethnal Green, Cambridge Heath, London Fields, Dalston Kingsland and Canonbury, what was a distance of 5.8 miles.
Note.
- Two different routes were checked.
- The Class 800 train had five cars.
- Platform 4 at Liverpool Street station was used, which is normally used by London Overground and Cambridge services.
As this comes so soon after the test run to Cleethorpes, that I wrote about in Azuma Test Train Takes To The Tracks As LNER Trials Possible New Route, I wonder if Network Rail and the train operating companies are planning for some worst case scenario, where the two or more of the West Coast Main Line, Midland Main Lone and East Coast Main Line are blocked.
LNER and Network Rail have shown the following.
- Azumas can use Cleethorpes station.
- Azumas can use Liverpool Street station.
We also know that Cleethorpes has a direct TransPennine train service across the North of England to Doncaster, Sheffield, Manchester and Liverpool.
So if say Euston has to be shut for perhaps fourteen days during the construction of High Speed Two, a service between Liverpool Street and Cleethorpes via Colchester, Ipswich, Cambridge, Peterborough and Lincoln could be used to get some passengers to and from the North.
The other big problem is the removal of the problems of the Newark Crossing, which if it results in a long blockade of the East Coast Main Line, might need services to go into an alternative London terminal.
The Powerhouse In The East
Consider.
- The importance of Cambridge to the economy of the UK is growing fast.
- The city suffers from a shortage of commercial premises, housing and staff at all levels.
- I have just looked at the non-passenger traffic on the West Anglia Main Line for all of yesterday and there were just six freight trains through Bishop’s Stortford.
I wonder, if it would be possible to run a Liverpool Street and Cleethorpes service via Cambridge, Ely, Peterborough, Spalding, Sleaford, Lincoln, Market Rasen, Barnetby and Grimsby Town?
- The service avoids the East Coast Main Line, except through Peterborough, where it would use the separate Werrington lines.
- Liverpool Street is in the heart of one of the world’s major financial centres.
- Liverpool Street is on the Elizabeth Line.
- The service could call at Stansted Airport, but a reverse would be needed.
- Peterborough is sometimes promoted in Cambridge as a city, that could be developed, to provide support for Cambridge.
- A reverse would be needed at Lincoln.
- Lincoln is developing as a university city with character.
- Grimsby and Cleethorpes are close to the fast expanding Humberside renewable energy and hydrogen cluster.
The service could be paired with a Liverpool Street and Norwich service, via Ely, Thetford, Attleborough and Wymondham.
The services could alternate every half hour or perhaps leave London as a pair and split and join at Cambridge.
Platform Availability At Kings Cross And Liverpool Street
Consider.
- Digital signalling on the East Coast Main Line will increase the number of possible trains between London and the North.
- LNER have said they want to increase services to the North and have identified a possible service to Cleethorpes.
- Grand Central would like to increase services to Bradford.
- Lumo have started services to Newcastle and Edinburgh from Kings Cross.
- The Elizabeth Line now runs less services into Liverpool Street station.
- The Elizabeth Line connects to Liverpool Street, but doesn’t connect to King’s Cross.
- Liverpool Street is to undergo a major refurbishment, which should increase the overall passenger capacity of the station.
Would it be sensible to move a small number of services from King’s Cross to Liverpool Street?
Surely, the logical service to move to Liverpool Street would be the new Cleethorpes service.
- It would route via Cambridge, Cambridge North, Ely, Peterborough, Spalding, Sleaford, Lincoln, Market Rasen, Barnetby and Grimsby Town.
- It would use the Werrington Lines through Peterborough.
- It would not need a path on the East Coast Main Line.
- The service would provide a much needed direct link between Cambridge and Lincoln via Peterborough.
- The service could also be hourly or two-hourly.
I also believe that a Liverpool Street and Cleethorpes service could be run by a battery-electric Azuma.
- The route is electrified between Liverpool Street and Ely and through Peterborough.
- Ely and Peterborough is 30 miles.
- Peterborough and Lincoln is 56.9 miles.
- Lincoln and Cleethorpes is 47.2 miles.
- There would need to be a charging station or a few miles of electrification at Cleethorpes.
- There may be 134.1 miles of unelectrified track, but there can be a Splash and Dash at Peterborough.
A Stadler Akku would be able to handle this route, so I suspect that a similar-sized battery-electric Azuma should also be able to handle the route.
What Will Be The Range Of A Hitachi Class 800 Battery Train?
I feel now, I have enough information to make an educated, at what the distance a five-car Class 800 or Class 802 train will travel on batteries.
Previous Battery-Electric Trains
These are examples of previous distances.
- A Bombardier engineer told me eight years ago, that the battery-electric Class 379 had a range of sixty miles.
- Stadler’s FLIRT Akku has a Guinness world record of 139 miles on one battery charge. See this page on the Stadler web site.
- Even Stadler’s Class 777 trains for Merseyrail have a range of 84 miles on battery power. See New Merseyrail Train Runs 135 km On Battery.
It does appear that five-car battery-electric trains will have ranges in excess of a hundred miles.
Engineering Ambition
Several times in my life, I’ve got fired up about engineering or software projects and I like to think, I’ve produced the best and fastest solution.
For this reason, I believe that Hyperdrive Innovation, who are now part of Turntide Technologies, and Hitachi will set themselves three objectives with the design of the the battery packs for the Class 800 or Class 802 train.
- The battery-electric Class 802 will outperform the Stadler FLIRT Akku in terms of speed and distance.
- The battery packs will be plug-compatible with the diesel engines, so there will only be minor software modification to the trains.
- The train will be able to be handle all Great Western Railway’s routes without using diesel.
- I wouldn’t be surprised that on many routes the train will cruise at over 110 mph on batteries.
I also suspect they want the Akku’s Guinness world record, which will mean the range will be in excess of 139 miles.
More On LNER’s Ten New Bi-Modes
I wrote about these trains in LNER Seeks 10 More Bi-Modes.
This was my conclusion.
There is a lot of scope to develop LNER’s services.
I think it is likely that the order will go to Hitachi.
But as I indicated, I do believe that there is scope for a manufacturer to design a zero-carbon train, that was able to serve Aberdeen and Inverness.
- I suspect a fleet of ten trains would be sufficient.
- Trains would use the 25 KVAC overhead electrification, where it exists and hydrogen or battery power North of the wires.
The trains would also be capable of being upgraded to higher speeds, should the East Coast Main Line be turned into a High Speed Line.
I also think, that whatever trains are bought, there will be a large upgrading of the existing Hitachi fleet, which will add batteries to a lot of trains.
In the July 2023 Edition of Modern Railways, there is an article, which is entitled LNER Embraces Pioneering Spirit, which takes the form of an interview with LNER’s Managing Director; David Horne.
In a section, which is entitled ‘225’ Replacement, this is said.
Meanwhile, Mr Horne is looking to what might replace the InterCity 225 fleet, now smartly repainted in a scheme which pays homage to the original ‘Swallow’ livery. While there were fears this fleet may be withdrawn as an economy measure, the ‘225s’ are now on lease until at least next summer.
But Mr Horne says obsolescence issues are a real challenge and LNER will struggle to maintain the fleet beyond 2025, and from the May 2023 timetable change the number of daily diagrams was reduced from five to four to conserve the fleet’s mileage. Much of the heavy maintenance work had previously been carried out at Wabtec’s Doncaster site, but this facility is no longer available, and while a recent reliability improvement programme is bearing fruit, the challenges remain. The crunch point comes with the transition to ETCS at the southern end of the ECML as part of the East Coast Digital Programme – Mr Horne says LNER does not want to fit cab signalling on the ‘225s’.
The solution to this issue is to procure additional trains to run alongside the 65 Azumas, and LNER went out to tender in October 2020 for a fleet of 10 trains with self-power capability.
While a preferred bidder has been identified, the business case to proceed with the procurement is awaiting approval, but Mr Horne is still hopeful this project can be progressed.
The current plan envisages the new trains broadly replacing the ‘225s’ on Leeds and York diagrams, but a major benefit with the new fleet would be during engineering work – at present LNER has to withdraw services to places such as Harrogate and Hull to concentrate its bi-mode Azumas on services using non-electrified diversionary routes, and having more stock with self-power capability would ease the issue.
Currently, LNER has these Azumas and InterCity 225s in its fleet.
- Five-car bi-mode Class 800 trains – 10
- Nine-car bi-mode Class 800 trains – 13
- Five-car electric Class 801 trains – 12
- Nine-car electric Class 801 trains – 30
- Nine-car electric ImterCity 225 trains – 8
Note.
- There are 23 bi-mode trains and 50 electric trains.
- There are 167 bi-mode carriages and 302 electric carriages.
- Currently 31.5 % of the trains are bi-mode.
- With ten new bi-mode trains and no InterCity 225 trains, 44 % of the fleet will be bi-mode.
Is this increase in the percentage of the fleet, that are bi-mode acceptable?
LNER’s Two Needs
Let’s look at LNER’s needs, which are actually two separate sub-needs.
- There is a need for ten new trains to replace the InterCity 225 trains.
- There is a need to increase the size of the bi-mode fleet to be able to use the Great Northern and Great Eastern Joint Line and other non-electrified routes to by-pass engineering works.
Note.
- I suspect that as Mr Horne explained, there are only five or possibly four InterCity 225s diagrammed on a particular day, then perhaps ten five-car bi-mode Class 800 trains, might be able to cover for the retirement of the InterCity 225s.
- These trains would work as pairs to Leeds and York to replace the InterCity 225 capacity.
- If required they could split and join at Leeds and York to serve other destinations.
- The diversion route of the Great Eastern Joint Line has an unelectrified distance of 93.7 miles and the route is electrified at both ends.
- Would a battery-electric Class 800 train handle this distance? I suspect if Stadler can do it, then Hitachi and Turntide Technology will be able to do it too!
LNER will have replaced the InterCity 225s and acquired ten new five-car blockade runners.
As an order for ten new five-car battery-electric trains, is not to be sneezed at, I suspect Hitachi will make sure that their new battery-electric variants have enough range.
So this would mean that the range of a five car battery-electric Class 800 train, should be in excess of 93.7 miles.
Advantages Of Converting Class 800 and Class 802 Trains To Battery-Electric Operation
It should be noted that the five-car and nine-car Class 800 and Class 802 trains have specific advantages when it comes to converting them to battery-electric operation.
- They are modern trains, that are still in production, so every bit of information about the train is known down to the last nut, bolt and plastic clip.
- Like most modern trains, hey have a sophisticated computer system controlling the train.
- They have spaces for three, four or maybe even five diesel engines under the floor, which could be used for a battery-pack in every car designed to hold a diesel engine.
- The train has an electric bus between nose and tail.
- As is shown, when the trains change between diesel and electric, the pantograph can go up and down with all the alacrity of a whore’s drawers.
- The trains can be converted between bi-mode and electric, by adding or removing diesel packs. I doubt this feature will be removed, as batteries replace diesels.
With my Electrical and Control Engineer’s hard hat on, I doubt there is anything to stop a Class 800 or Class 802 train being fitted with three or more batteries to create a 125 mph train, with a range approaching two hundred miles on battery power.
The initial name of these Hitachi trains was the Hitachi Super Express. Is this train the Hitachi Super Battery Express?
But it would appear, that for their initial needs, LNER, just need a range to handle the near hundred miles of the Great Northern and Great Eastern Joint Line.
Inverness and Aberdeen will come later.
Conclusion
The first version of the battery-electric train will have a range of around a hundred miles, so that they can handle the Great Northern and Great Eastern Joint Line diversion, which is 93.7 miles on battery power.
But fairly soon after introduction into service, I will be very surprised if they don’t claim the Guinness world record by running farther than the Stadler FLIRT Akku’s 139 miles.
No-one likes being second!
The Anonymous Widower 