Manchester To London Train To Run Without Passengers
The title of this post, is the same as that of this article on the BBC.
This is the sub-heading.
A train service taking commuters from Manchester to London is to run empty for around five months following a decision by the rail regulator.
These three paragraphs add more detail.
A decision by the Office of Rail and Road (ORR), means the 07:00 GMT service operated by Avanti West Coast from Manchester Piccadilly to London will still run but will only be used to carry staff from mid-December.
An Avanti West Coast spokesperson said they were “disappointed” with the decision, which would “clearly impact those customers who already use these services”.
An ORR spokesperson said the decision was made on “robust evidence” from Network Rail to guard against possible service disruption on the West Coast Main Line.
It is a long article on the BBC and I suspect, it is one of those, that should be fully-read before commenting.
I looked up last Friday’s service and found this.
- It was an eleven-coach Class 390 train.
- The train goes via Macclesfield, Stoke-on-Trent and Stafford, but only stops to pick up passengers at Stockport.
- It left on time at 07:00.
- It arrived in London at 09:20, which was twenty-one minutes late.
I think, I’ll see this train arrive on Monday.
Could Avanti West Coast Be Planning A Fast Service From Both Liverpool and Manchester?
Consider.
- Manchester Piccadilly has a 07:00 train to Euston, that takes two hours via Stoke-on-Trent.
- The train also stops at Stockport.
- The Manchester Piccadilly train is an eleven-car Class 390 train, that is 265.3 metres long.
- Liverpool Lime Street has a 06:43 train to Euston, that takes two hours and 11 minutes via Crewe, that stops at Runcorn.
- The Liverpool Lime Street train is a seven-car Class 807 train, that is 182 metres long.
Note.
- I wonder, if at some time in the future, these two services could both be run by seven-car Class 807 trains, that joined at Crewe.
- This might not have been possible with Class 390 trains, as the pair of trains would have been very long.
- Class 390 trains may not be able to split and join.
- I don’t think any extra paths would be needed.
This would give Crewe, Liverpool, Manchester, Runcorn and Stockport, a fast early train to Euston.
Managing Earthworks In A Changing Environment
This image shows the train derailment at Shap at 06:10 on Monday.
The BBC and others were talking about the cause of the derailment being a landslide.
So it was perhaps appropriate that the latest edition of Rail Engineer had a sponsorsed feature with a title of Managing Earthworks In A Changing Environment.
It is well-worth a full read.
Could London And Central Scotland Air Passengers Be Persuaded To Use The Trains?
How Many Passengers Fly Between London And Edinburgh?
Wikipedia gives these figures for 2024 for passengers from Edinburgh to London
- London City – 334,873
- London Gatwick – 476,152
- London Heathrow – 1,148,634
- London Luton – 338, 729
- London Stansted – 693,953
This gives a total of 2,992,341.
As Wikipedia doesn’t give complete figures for from London to Edinburgh, for the purpose of this analysis, I’ll assume they are the same.
How Many Passengers Fly Between London And Glasgow?
Wikipedia gives these figures for 2024 for passengers from Glasgow to London
- London City – 208,405
- London Gatwick – 456,002
- London Heathrow – 954,027
- London Luton – 255,095
- London Stansted – 225,110
This gives a total of 2,098,639.
As Wikipedia doesn’t give complete figures for from London to Glasgow, for the purpose of this analysis, I’ll assume they are the same.
How Many Passengers Fly Between London And Scotland’s Central Belt?
Adding the two figures gives 5,090,980. in both directions.
Which is an average of 97,903 per week or 13,948 per day.
How Many Train Seats Run Between London And Scotland’s Central Belt?
These figures are for Friday the 1st of August.
- Aventi West Coast – London Euston and Glasgow Central – 5 x 9-car Class 390 train – 2,345 seats
- Aventi West Coast – London Euston and Glasgow Central – 16 x 11-car Class 390 train – 6,677 seats
- LNER – London King’s Cross and Edinburgh – 26 x 9-car Class 801 train – 15,886 seats
- Lumo – London King’s Cross and Edinburgh – 5 x 5-car Class 803 train – 2,010 seats
Note.
- All services are all-electric.
- All services are fairly new or have recently been refurbished,
This gives a total of 26,918 train seats.
Adding Lumo’s Service To Glasgow
In Lumo Will Extend Its King’s Cross And Edinburgh Service To Glasgow, I suggested that the Glasgow service would be run as follows from December 2025.
- Two existing Lumo services will leave London as pairs of five-car trains.
- The pairs will split at Edinburgh.
- The leading train will go on to Glasgow Queen Street calling at Edinburgh Haymarket and Falkirk High stations.
- The trailing train will return to London King’s Cross.
- At the end of the day, the two trains in Glasgow will do a fast run back to London King’s Cross as a pair of 5-car trains.
This will add 804 seats per day between London and Glasgow Queen Street in both directions.
The daily total would now total 27,722 train seats, which compares with a daily average of 13,948 passengers per day, who travel by air.
Adding Lumo’s Service To Stirling
In Lumo To Expand Scotland’s Rail Network With New London-Stirling Rail Route From Spring 2026, I talk about Lumo’s new service to Stirling.
- There will be five trains per day (tpd) in each direction.
- Lumo’s new route will link London Euston directly to Stirling, also calling at Milton Keynes, Nuneaton, Crewe, Preston, Carlisle, Lockerbie, Motherwell, Whifflet (serving Coatbridge), Greenfaulds (serving Cumbernauld) and Larbert.
- The service will use 6-car Class 222 trains, which in the linked post, I estimate will have a similar one-class capacity to the Class 803 trains between London King’s Cross and Edinburgh.
- If the capacity of the two train types is similar, this should give operational advantages and allow some more Class 803 trains to run the Euston and Stirling route.
This second Scottish route will add 2010 train seats per day between London Euston and Stirling in both directions.
The daily total would now total 29,732 train seats, which compares with a daily average of 13,948 passengers per day, who travel by air.
Could More Capacity Be Added Between London And Scotland’s Central Belt?
I believe some of the Lumo services between London King’s Cross and Edinburgh could be doubled up to a pair of trains.
There would have to be no platform length issues at London King’s Cross, Stevenage, Newcastle and Morpeth stations.
If three trains could be doubled up, that would add 1,206 train seats per day between London and Edinburgh in both directions.
The daily total would now total 30,938 train seats, which compares with a daily average of 13,948 passengers per day, who travel by air.
I also suspect, that some of the Stirling services could be doubled up.
Connectivity Of England’s Northern Airports To London And Central Scotland
Birmingham Airport
Consider.
- There are easyJet flights to Edinburgh and Glasgow
- There are 1.5 trains per hour (tph) between Birmingham New Street and Edinburgh.
- There are 6 tpd between Birmingham New Street and Glasgow.
You would make your choice and pay the money.
East Midlands Airport
There are no flights or trains to Edinburgh and Glasgow.
Leeds Airport
Consider.
- There are no flights to Edinburgh or Glasgow.
- There is one tph between Leeds and Edinburgh
- There is one tpd between Leeds and Glasgow
Could Leeds and Glasgow get better connectivity?
Liverpool Airport
Consider.
- There are no flights to Edinburgh or Glasgow.
- There is one tph between Liverpool Lime Street and Edinburgh
- There is three tpd between Liverpool Lime Street and Glasgow
The Liverpool area is well connected to Crewe, Warrington Bank Quay, Wigan North Western and Preston stations on the West Coast Main Line for alternative services to Glasgow.
Manchester Airport
Consider.
- There are no flights to Edinburgh or Glasgow.
- There is one tph between Manchester Airport and Scotland via Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Oxford Road, which alternates between Edinburgh and Glasgow.
The Manchester area is well connected to Crewe, Warrington Bank Quay, Wigan North Western and Preston stations on the West Coast Main Line for alternative services to Glasgow.
Omio gives this summary of flights between Heathrow and Manchester airports.
Flights from Manchester Airport to London Heathrow Airport depart on average 8 times per day, taking around 1h 6m. Cheap flight tickets for this journey start at £63 but you can travel from only £16 by coach.
Wrightbus and others will be producing mouse-quiet hydrogen-powered coaches in a couple of years. I suspect these will give short flights a good kicking.
Newcastle Airport
Consider.
- There are no flights to Edinburgh or Glasgow.
- There is three tph between Newcastle and Edinburgh with an additional 5 tpd from Lumo.
- There is two tpd between Newcastle and Glasgow.
- There is one tpd between Newcastle and Stirling.
- From December 2025, Lumo will add two tpd from Newcastle to Glasgow and one tpd from Glasgow to Newcastle.
- In Lumo Will Extend Its King’s Cross And Edinburgh Service To Glasgow, I stated that I believe that Lumo’s Glasgow to Newcastle service will be a late evening ten-car train, so travellers can have a long day in Glasgow, Edinburgh and Newcastle and still return to London.
Lumo would appear to fill in the gap between Newcastle and Glasgow.
Google AI gives this summary of flights between Heathrow and Newcastle airports.
There are usually 5-6 direct flights per day between Newcastle and Heathrow airports. These flights are operated by British Airways. The average flight time is around 1 hour and 10 minutes.
Note.
- In 2024, 497, 469 passengers flew between between Heathrow and Newcastle airports, which is an average of 681 passengers in each direction every day.
- This was an increase of 13.6 % on 2023.
- From December Lumo will be running extra London King’s Cross and Newcastle services, with each train having 402 seats.
- The improvements in rail services in and around Newcastle in recent months, will surely bring more passengers to use trains from Newcastle station.
- Will Lumo also target adverts at airline passengers?
London and Newcastle could be another route for mouse-quiet hydrogen-powered coaches.
Conclusion
These numbers summarise my calculations.
- Currently an average of 13,948 passengers per day fly between London and Central Scotland.
- Currently, there are 26,918 train seats available per day between London and Central Scotland.
- In December 2025, Lumo will add another 804 low-cost train seats between London King’s Cross and Glasgow Queen Street.
- In Spring 2026, Lumo will add 2010 low-cost train seats between London Euston and Stirling.
- From Spring 2026, there will be 29,732 train seats available per day between London and Central Scotland.
- This represents a 10 % increase of seats on the trains between London and Central Scotland.
How many passengers, who normally fly, will switch to using the train?
- Lumo may only offer one class, but you get a trolley and can order food from M & S and others to be delivered to your seat.
- Both LNER and Lumo accept dogs. I don’t know about Avanti.
- All services will be all-electric, when Lumo gets its new electric trains for Stirling, in a few years.
- It looks to me like Lumo could be offering a late train back to London from Edinburgh and Glasgow.
- Digital signalling on the East Coast Main Line should speed up services.
If Lumo to Glasgow and Stirling works out, it could also cut the total carbon footprint of travel between London and Central Scotland.
Farage Wants HS2 Scrapped
The title of this post, is the same as a sub-title in this article on The Times. which is entitled HS2: Labour confirms delay until 2033.
This is the sub-heading.
Nigel Farage has called for the whole HS2 project to be scrapped.
These two paragraphs give NF’s view.
The Reform UK leader told the Commons: “Has the moment not come, rather than having another reset, to recognise this is a failure?
“Let’s scrap HS2, let’s use the tens of billions of pounds we can save in the next decade to upgrade railway lines across the entirety of the United Kingdom to the benefit of many millions and spend the rest on other national priorities in these financially straitened times.”
Farage’s simplistic plan will appeal to his disciples, but the major thing that is needed, is more capacity between South and North. Or North and South depending on where you live!
HS2 will provide an extra seventeen paths between London and a large triangular junction in the West Midlands.
If HS2 Is Not Built There Will Be More Cars And Trucks On The Roads
In Footage Released Of East West Rail’s First Commercial Freight Train, I wrote about the SEGRO Logistics Park Northampton (SLPN), which would generate lots of road and rail traffic. Without developments like HS2, the roads will just get clogged up.
High Speed Two’s Originally Proposed Service Pattern
This graphic shows the original service pattern for High Speed Two.
Note.
- There are seventeen paths terminating in the South at Euston station.
- Six of these paths go to Leeds, Newcastle or York.
- As the Eastern leg has been abandoned, that means six extra trains can run between London and the large triangular junction in the West Midlands.
Six extra trains running to the West side of England and Scotland could give a substantial improvement of services.
High Speed Yorkshire
HS2 needs to be paired with High Speed Yorkshire, which would mainly be an upgrading of the East Coast Main Line running at up to 160 mph to serve Lincolnshire, Yorkshire, the North-East and East Scotland.
Note.
- British Rail built the Selby Diversion in the 1980s to run at 160 mph.
- Digital signalling is currently being installed on this route and this will allow trains to speed through the two bottlenecks of the Digswell Viaduct and the Newark Crossing.
- Times of three-and-a-half hours between King’s Cross and Edinburgh, should be possible.
These times should give the airlines a good kicking on London-Newcastle and London-Scotland routes.
Fast services would run on High Speed Yorkshire to Alnwick, Barnetby, Barnsley, Beverley, Berwick, Bradford, Brough, Cleethorpes, Darlington, Doncaster, Durham, Edinburgh, Goole, Grantham, Grimsby, Harrogate, Huddersfield, Hull, Leeds, Lincoln, Middlesbrough, Newcastle, Peterborough, Pontefract, Retford, Rotherham, Scarborough, Scunthorpe, Sheffield, Skipton, Stevenage, Sunderland, Wakefield, Worksop and York.
Most of these towns and cities are already served by Hitachi or other high speed trains from King’s Cross.
A high proportion of the services to Yorkshire destinations will be under two hours from London.
When the current trains need replacing, they could be replaced by High Speed Two Classic-Compatible trains.
Onward From Handsacre Junction
Services to the North-West and Scotland will join the Trent Valley Line at Handsacre junction.
This OpenRailwayMap shows the Trent Valley Line between Crewe station and Handacre junction.
Note.
- The proposed route of High Speed Two is shown as a dotted line, running diagonally across the map.
- The red track to its West is the Trent Valley Line, which is a section of the West Coast Main Line.
- Handsacre junction is in the South-East corner of the map.
- The blue arrow indicates Stafford station on the West Coast Main Line.
- The main High Speed Two tracks will not connect to Stafford or Stoke-on-Trent stations.
- Crewe station is in the North-West corner of the map.
- Crewe station and Handsacre junction are 37.6 miles apart.
With the exception of the 6 mile twin-track section between Stafford Trent Valley and Colwich junctions, it appears that Crewe station and Handsacre junction is all quadruple track.
This OpenRailwayMap shows the Trent Valley Line between Stafford stationand Colwich junction.
Note.
- The Trent Valley Line, which is a section of the West Coast Main Line, runs across the map.
- The arrow in the North-West corner of the map indicates Stafford station.
- Colwich junction is in the South-East corner of the map.
- About three-quarters of the way across, the track is shown in cream. This is the twin-track Shugborough Tunnel, which is around a half-mile long.
- The Shugborough Tunnel has a 100 mph maximum speed.
- The portals of Shugborough Tunnel are Grade II Listed and the Wikipedia entry for the tunnel is certainly worth a read.
How Many High Speed Two trains per hour (tph) will use the Trent Valley Line route?
The original proposal in the graphic earlier shows these trains.
- 4 – London to Lancaster/Liverpool Lime Street – Splits at Crewe
- 5 – London to Liverpool Lime Street
- 6 – London to Stafford, Stoke -on-Trent and Macclesfield
- 7 – London and Birmingham Interchange to Manchester Airport and Manchester Piccadilly
- 8 – London to Manchester Airport and Manchester Piccadilly
- 9 – London to Manchester Airport and Manchester Piccadilly
- 10 – London and Birmingham Interchange to Preston, Carlisle, Edinburgh Haymarket and Edinburgh Waverley/Glasgow Central – Splits at Carlisle
- 11 – London Euston to Preston, Carlisle, Edinburgh Haymarket and Edinburgh Waverley/Glasgow Central – Splits at Carlisle
- 12 – Birmingham Curzon Street to Wigan North Western, Preston, Lancaster, Oxenholme, Penrith, Carlisle, Edinburgh Haymarket and Edinburgh Waverley Or Wigan North Western, Preston, Lancaster, Carlisle, Lockerbie, Motherwell and Glasgow Central- Services alternate.
- 13 – Birmingham Curzon Street to East Midlands Hub, Manchester Airport and Manchester Piccadilly
- 14 – Birmingham Curzon Street to East Midlands Hub, Manchester Airport and Manchester Piccadilly
Note.
- It looks like there will be eleven High Speed Two tph on the Trent Valley Line.
- As East Midlands Hub will not be built, I will assume trains 13 and 14 will be Birmingham Curzon Street to Manchester Airport and Manchester Piccadilly.
- Other trains will need to use the route.
- I suspect that freight trains, that couldn’t maintain 100 mph would not be allowed.
I believe that digital signalling can handle all the trains between Handsacre Junction and Crewe.
- Trains 10 and 11 would run every thirty minutes to give two tph between London and Glasgow Central and two tph between London and the two Edinburgh stations.
- Each of these trains would lead a flight of trains behind them through the Trent Valley Line.
- The last trains going North in the flights, would be trains 4 and 6, as they stop on the Trent Valley Line section.
I have written a lot of scheduling algorithms in the last fifty years and I wouldn’t be surprised if flights could be up to 7 or 8 trains, running 3 or 4 minutes apart.
It would be an impressive sight.
What Timings Would Be Possible On High Speed Two Using Handsacre Junction And The Trent Valley Line?
In Where Is Handsacre Junction? I calculated some times on High Speed Two to various destinations, using Handsacre junction and the Trent Valley Line. This is a more comprehensive table.
- London and Blackpool North – 205 mph – 1:55
- London and Blackpool North – 140 mph – 2:12
- London and Carlisle – 205 mph – 2:45
- London and Carlisle – 140 mph – 3:01
- London and Crewe – 205 mph – 1:03
- London and Crewe – 140 mph – 1:19
- London and Edinburgh Waverley – 205 mph – 4:14
- London and Edinburgh Waverley – 140 mph – 4:30
- London and Glasgow Central – 205 mph – 4:22
- London and Glasgow Central – 140 mph – 4:38
- London and Handsacre junction – 205 mph – 0:35
- London and Handsacre junction – 140 mph – 0:51
- London and Lancaster – 205 mph – 1:50
- London and Lancaster – 140 mph – 2:06
- London and Liverpool Lime Street – 205 mph – 1:46
- London and Liverpool Lime Street – 140 mph – 2:02
- London and Manchester Piccadilly – 205 mph – 1:41
- London and Manchester Piccadilly – 140 mph – 1:57
- London and Preston – 205 mph – 1:31
- London and Preston – 140 mph – 1:47
- London and Stafford – 205 mph – 0:45
- London and Stafford – 140 mph – 1:01
- London and Stoke-on-Trent – 205 mph – 0:55
- London and Stoke-on-Trent – 140 mph – 1:11
- London and Wigan North Western – 205 mph – 1:17
- London and Wigan North Western – 140 mph – 1:33
Note.
- 205 mph could be the average speed between London Euston and Handsacre junction for High Speed Two Classic-Compatible trains.
- 140 mph could be the average speed between London Euston and Handsacre junction for Class 390 trains.
- Times are in hh:nn.
- For times North of Handsacre junction are typical Class 390 times.
A typical timing between London Euston and Handsacre junction for Class 390 trains is 71 minutes, so if High Speed Two services were run using Class 390 trains, twenty minutes would be saved on all services via Handsacre junction compared to current Avanti West Coast services.
I have some other thoughts.
Using Class 390 Trains Is Not My Idea
This article on Rail nBusiness UK is entitled Viewpoint: Buy tilting trains and finish Delta Junction to salvage HS2, says Gibb.
This is the sub-heading.
UK: Procurement of a fleet of tilting trains and a focus on Birmingham – Manchester services are key to making the most the descoped High Speed 2 scheme, former Virgin Trains executive Chris Gibb tells Rail Business UK.
Chris Gibb has the right experience. and has been used as a go-to man, when projects are in trouble.
The major points of his plan are as follows.
- Connect High Speed Two to the Trent Valley Line to go North from the Midlands.
- Initially, use Class 390 trains or Pendelinos on Liverpool, Manchester and Scottish services.
- Run Class 390 trains at 140 mph between Euston and Handsacre junction.
- When the Pendelinos need to be retired, buy a new set of tilting trains.
- Complete the North-to-West leg of High Speed Two’s triangular junction, so that trains can run between Birmingham Curzon Street and Manchester.
- Gibb proposes a Blackpool service, that splits and joins with a Liverpool service. I assume he means train 5.
Gibb feels a fundamental review of the operating principles and fleet requirements is now needed.
It is a well-thought out viewpoint and very much a must-read.
Lancaster Station – 23rd May 2025
I finally got to Lancaster station today, after my failure that I wrote about in An Annoying Day.
I took these pictures.
I shall deal with the features of the station in separate sub-sections.
The Original High Speed Two Schedule Through Lancaster Station
This diagram shows High Speed Two services, as they were originally envisaged before Phase 2 was discontinued.
Note.
- Trains to the left of the vertical black line are Phase 1 and those to the right are Phase 2.
- Full-Size trains are shown in blue.
- Classic-Compatible trains are shown in yellow.
- Blue circles are shown, where trains stop.
- The dotted circles are where trains split and join.
- In the red boxes routes alternate every hour.
Click on the diagram to enlarge it.
If I look at the trains counting from the left of the diagram, I see the following trains passing or terminating at Lancaster station.
- Train 4 is a pair of classic-compatible trains, that split and join at Crewe, with one train going to Lancaster and the other to Liverpool Lime Street.
- Trains 10 and 11 are pairs of classic-compatible trains going between London and Scotland.
- Train 12 is a single classic-compatible train going between Birmingham and Scotland.
Only the Lancaster portion of Train 4 stops in Lancaster station.
The Track Layout
This OpenRailwayMap shows the track layout through the station.
Note.
- Tracks shown in red are electrified and tracks in black or not.
- In the North-West corner of the map the two bay platforms 1 and 2, that are used for local services can be seen.
- Platform 3 is a long platform on the Western side of the station, which is generally for Northbound through stopping trains, that can take 265 metre long eleven-car Class 390 trains.
- Paired with the track through Platform 3, there is a Northbound avoiding line, that allows faster trains to overtake trains stopped in the station.
- Platform 4 is a long platform on the Western side of the island platform on the Eastern side of the station, which is generally for Southbound through stopping trains, that can take 265 metre long eleven-car Class 390 trains.
- Paired with the track through Platform 4, there is a Southbound avoiding line, that allows faster trains to overtake trains stopped in the station.
- Platform 5 is a long platform on the Eastern side of the island platform on the Eastern side of the station, that is over two hundred metres long.
- All through tracks have a 75 mph maximum speed, except for Platform 5, which is just 30 mph.
Click on the diagram to enlarge it.
How Will High Speed Two Operate At Lancaster Station?
I would expect that the three High Speed Two services to and from Scotland will go through Lancaster station on the avoiding lines, which will mean that each avoiding line will handle one High Speed Two classic-compatible train every twenty minutes.
The train, that terminates at Lancaster has a few options.
- It could terminate from London in any of platforms 3, 4 or 5.
- It could leave for London from any of the platforms 3, 4 or 5.
Note.
- All three platforms are long enough to accept a single High Speed Two classic-compatible train, which is only 200 metres long.
- There would probably need to be some works to the tracks so that trains could terminate in platforms 4 or 5.
- There might need to be some works to the tracks so that trains could leave from London from platform 3.
The logical way to terminate the train would probably for the train to arrive and leave in Platform 5, but then this would need improvements to the tracks and also to the passenger footbridge across the tracks.
Eden Project Morecambe And The Morecambe Branch
In a few years time, both the Eden Project Morecambe and High Speed Two will be open and I suspect, a day out could be to take High Speed Two to Lancaster and the local train to Morecambe for a day at the Eden Project Morecambe.
This paragraph from the Eden Project Morecambe web site, describes the current status of the project.
Eden Project Morecambe, previously known as Eden Project North, has been awarded £50m in the second round of the UK Government’s Levelling Up Fund. The funding allows the project to move into its next phase and begin the process of finalising the remaining funds required from private and philanthropic sources identified as part of the bidding process.
I had intended to take a train to Morecambe to have a look round, but the train, that I would have needed to catch to get back to London at a reasonable hour, didn’t run due to lack of train crew.
As High Speed Two will provide connections at Lancaster to Birmingham, Carlisle, Crewe, Edinburgh, Glasgow, London, Preston, Warrington and Wigan and other trains will provide connections to Leeds, Liverpool and Manchester, the Eden Project Morecambe will be well connected to those who might like to visit by rail.
A day out with the kids, could involve a trip on High Speed One to Lancaster, a trip on a battery-electric shuttle train to Morecambe and a day out at the Eden Project Morecambe.
The Eden Project Morecambe could be a big money earner for High Speed Two and other rail companies.
I would envisage, that you would be able to buy an All-in-One ticket to the Eden Project Morecambe, which included your rail tickets.
The Passenger Footbridge
There is a lift on the Southbound side, but on the Northbound and bay platform side, there are only steps.
If substantial numbers of passengers visit the station and need to cross the tracks on the footbridge, as you would from arriving in Platforms 4 or 5 and wanting to go to Eden Project Morecambe, the footbridge is totally inadequate.
Lancaster Station Architecture
Lancaster station is Grade II Listed and you can see why from the pictures.
Work appears to be ongoing to refurbish the station.
The stonework appeared immaculate and very much High Speed Two-ready.
These picture shows part of the Costa coffee shop.
It was not what I expected.
Could High Speed Two Serve Blackpool North?
Consider.
- Blackpool North station is electrified and will have an electrified route to London Euston HS2 and Birmingham Curzon Street stations, when High Speed Two opens.
- Yesterday, both 11-car and 9-car Class 390 trains, which are longer than single High Speed Two classic-compatible trains, used Blackpool North station.
- Blackpool is noted for fresh air and fun.
- Blackpool needs leveling-up. Surely High Speed Two will help with this?
- Blackpool has a unique Modern and Ancient tramway to bring residents and visitors to High Speed Two.
I am fairly sure, that single High Speed Two class-compatible trains could use Blackpool North station.
But could another High Speed Two service have a path between London and Preston to serve Blackpool?
Because of the cancellation of Phase 2 of High Speed 2, there are spare paths on High Speed Two between London and the West Midlands.
If the core section of High Speed Two is extended Northwards to Crewe, as advocated by Dyan Perry of the High Speed Rail Group, that I wrote about in The Future Of HS2 Could Lie In Its Original Vision, this would create extra paths to Crewe.
It looks to me, that the tricky part of the route is between Crewe and Preston.
This diagram shows High Speed Two services, as they were originally envisaged before Phase 2 was discontinued.
Note.
- Trains to the left of the vertical black line are Phase 1 and those to the right are Phase 2.
- Full-Size trains are shown in blue.
- Classic-Compatible trains are shown in yellow.
- Blue circles are shown, where trains stop.
- The dotted circles are where trains split and join.
- In the red boxes routes alternate every hour.
Click on the diagram to enlarge it.
Note that if Phase 1 were to be completed to Crewe, there would be five full-size and five classic-compatible trains using the West Midlands and Crewe section of the High Speed Two route, of which five trains would terminate at Manchester Piccadilly HS2 station and two classic-compatible trains would terminate at Liverpool Lime Street.
So just three Scottish trains and one to Lancaster would go North of Warrington Bank Quay station, which would be an average of one train every fifteen minutes.
High Speed Two will be fully digitally signalled and I’m sure that trains could run as flights of two or more trains, a couple of minutes apart.
This would mean that a London and Blackpool North service could run say two minutes behind one of the London and Scotland services to Preston
- Between London and the West Midlands, there would be twelve trains per hour (tph).
- Between the West Midlands and Crewe, there would be also be twelve tph.
- Between Crewe and Preston, there would be five tph.
I believe it would be possible for High Speed Two to run a London and Blackpool North service, provided that the London Euston to Crewe core of High Speed Two is completed soon after Phase 1 is completed.
It should also be noted, that I believe the second Scottish service from London could also have a flight with another service. So could Barrow or Blackburn have a High Speed Two service from London?
Arriving In Liverpool Lime Street Station – 10th May 2025
Liverpool Lime Street station has one of the more spectacular approaches of British railway stations, as these pictures show.
These sections describe the approach.
Crossing The Mersey
You cross the Mersey at Runcorn on the Ethelfreda or Britannia Bridge, which is described in this Wikipedia entry.
It was completed in 1868 and hopefully in a few years, it will be carrying High Speed Two trains between London and Liverpool.
On your right as you cross the Mersey to Liverpool is the Silver Jubilee road bridge, which is a through arch bridge that opened in 1961 to replace a historic transporter bridge. I am just a little bit too young to have seen the transporter bridge.
Further to your right, you can see the Mersey Gateway Bridge, which is a cable-stayed bridge, that opened in 2017 and is described in this Wikipedia entry.
Drax’s Biomass
As you approach Lime Street station, you pass through Edge Hill, where there are the GB Railfreight sidings, where the biomass trains for Drax power station are marshalled for their journey across the Pennines. These Drax trains seem to be one of the few freight trains in the UK, that carry advertising. Tesco trains also do, but their’s is just big letters.
In Do Cummins And Stadler Have a Cunning Plan?, I talked about the possible conversion at some date in the future of GB Railfreight’s new electro-diesel Class 99 locomotives to electro-hydrogen locomotives. These locomotives will surely be ideal for hauling Drax’s biomass trains across the Pennines.
I do believe that these Class 99 locomotives are the future of heavy freight trains in the UK. In Iarnród Éireann Looks At Diesel Loco Replacement Options, I write about speculation, that Stadler may build a version for the Irish.
Through The Edge Hill Cutting
From Edge Hill a deep cutting through the sandstone takes you into Lime Street station.
It looked good in the sun, but the first time I arrived in the city to start my studies at Liverpool University, it was chucking it down and the cutting was very dark and wet.
It was a very different welcome to that, which I got yesterday.
My Train Arrived In Platform 10
Liverpool Lime Street has two cast iron train sheds.
- The Western shed has platform 1 to 5 and generally handles trains from the East.
- The Eastern shed has platform 6 to 10 and generally handles trains from the South.
Note.
- Changing between trains is just a step-free walk across the station concourse.
- Both sections have their own taxi rank and full-size clock.
- The Ticket Office is in the Western train shed.
I just walked from my train to the Ticket Office, bought a Lancashire Day Ranger ticket and then walked fifty metres to my next train.
How many stations have such an easy change of trains?
Is Liverpool Lime Street Station Ready For High Speed Two?
Consider.
- I travelled North in an 11-car Class 390 train, which is 265.3 metres long and can carry 607 passengers.
- As the last pictures show, the train fitted easily into platform 10.
- High Speed Two plans to send 200 metre classic-compatible trains to Liverpool Lime Street, with each having a capacity of up to 528.
It looks to me, that these High Speed Two classic-compatible trains will fit into Liverpool Lime Street station, at any platform that currently accepts an eleven-car Class 390 train.
Looking on Real Time trains over the last few days, I’ve found eleven-car Class 390 trains using platforms 9, 10 and 6.
It seems that Network Rail’s engineers have done a superb job to turn the Grade II Listed station, into one of the best operationally.
Avanti West Coast Increases Liverpool – London Services With Launch Of Electric Evero Trains
The title of this post, is the same as that of this article on Railway Gazette.
This is the sub-heading.
Avanti West Coast officially launched the Class 807 electric only-version of its Hitachi-built Evero trainsets into service on November 11. This enables the operator to offer an additional weekday return service between Liverpool Lime Street and London Euston.
On the 14th of November 2024, these services were run by new Class 807 trains.
- 3F79 – 807001 – 2100 – Northampton to Liverpool Lime Street
- 3F80 – 807001 – 0023 – Liverpool Lime Street to Edge Hill Depot
- 5A99 – 807001 – 0836 – Edge Hill Depot to Liverpool Lime Street
- 1A99 – 807001 – 0901 – Liverpool Lime Street to London Euston – 02:40
- 1F12 – 807003 – 0743 – London Euston to Liverpool Lime Street – 03:07
- 1A28 – 807003 – 1043 – Liverpool Lime Street to London Euston – 02:20
Note,
- I have shown all Class 807 movements that happened. Some possibly didn’t!
- There appear to be extra services, which I’ve marked with their times.
- Time seems to be available to go to Edge Hill Depot if needed.
- I suspect an open return ticket can be used on any train, that’s running.
Services seem to be slow, but they can be booked.
Avanti Are Ramping Up The Service
I suspect that as they add more trains, times will come down and a stop at Liverpool South Parkway will be added.
The Class 390 trains currently used on the Liverpool route are too long for Liverpool South Parkway station.
But seven-car Class 807 trains would fit easily.
The shorter and lighter seven-car Class 807 trains may well have faster acceleration and deceleration than the nine- or eleven-car Class 390 trains with their heavy tilting mechanism.
Could this extra performance mean that the Class 807 trains could still meet the timetable with extra stops?
In Is Liverpool Going To Get High Speed One-Point-Five?, I discussed various options for the London and Liverpool service.
I believe that a practical timetable like this could work.
- Eleven-car Class 390 train – one tph – Non-stop or perhaps a single stop in the Midlands – Under two hours
- Seven-car Class 807 train – one tph – Stopping at Nuneaton, Stafford, Crewe, Runcorn and Liverpool South Parkway – Current time or better
Note.
- An hourly service between London and Liverpool in under two hours would surely be a passenger magnet.
- Two tph would be a 43 % hourly increase in the number of seats between London and Liverpool.
- There would be better connections between Liverpool Lime Street and the East Midlands.
The Railway Gazette article also says this.
From the December timetable change AWC will supplement the current hourly Liverpool – London service with an extra two trains each way every weekday and a third service on Saturdays.
In the short term, AWC will not be delivering the long-standing plan for a half-hourly service on the route, but further services are to be introduced over the next year.
One constraint relates to the power supply. Network Rail has identified two locations where additional electric services cannot currently be accommodated, and discussions over a resolution are ongoing.
A fast service could also be applied to one of the London and Manchester services.
It should be noted, that the two hours and eight minutes record between Manchester and London Euston was set by an InterCity 225 in 1992, so perhaps a seven-car Class 807 could do better than a Class 390 train.
Could A Pair Of Class 807 Trains Leave Euston For Liverpool And Manchester, And Split At Crewe?
Train lengths are as follows.
- Seven-car Class 807 train – 182 metres.
- Fourteen-car Class 807 train – 364 metres.
- Nine-car Class 390 train – 217.5 metres.
- Eleven-car Class 390 train – 365.3 metres.
- Caledonian Sleeper – 374 metres.
I suspect with perhaps a small amount of platform lengthening, a pair of Class 807 could be fitted into all stations, where they would need to call.
This might be a way of adding extra capacity and faster services to Manchester, without needing an extra path on the West Coast Main Line.
Could A Single Class 807 Train Call At Manchester Airport Station?
The platforms at Manchester Airport station are 192 metres long, so a single Class 807 train should fit.
This would allow an hourly service from Manchester Airport to the South, without a change at Manchester Piccadilly or Crewe.
To save paths, it could split and join with the second Liverpool service at Crewe.
Conclusion
The new Class 807 trains could increase performance to between London Euston and both Liverpool Lime Street and Manchester Piccadilly.
Rochdale Station – 12th November, 2024
Yesterday, I went to Rochdale station, to ascertain, the suitability of running a Lumo service between Euston and Rochdale stations.
Note.
- The building in the style of a mosque, is actually a Catholic church.
- The island tram platform is at right angles to the railway lines through the station.
- The tram takes you a short distance to the North to the town centre.
This map shows the station and the tram stop.
Note.
- The station has four platforms and two tram platforms.
- The two outer train platforms are quite long.
- The West-facing bay platform could probably take a five-car Lumo train.
- The tram platform runs North from the station.
- There is a co-working space by the tram-stop.
- There is a cafe in the station.
- There is a manned ticket office.
- Car parking is free.
- There are sixteen bicycle spaces.
With some tidying up, this could be a neat interchange.
These are my thoughts.
Will Rochdale Station Accommodate One Of Lumo’s Five-Car Trains?
The Wikipedia entry for Rochdale station, says this about the Bay Platform 4, that was used for the Cltheroe train.
In 2015, construction on a fourth railway platform began. The 135m-long bay platform was completed in 2016 and is used to relieve congestion at Manchester Victoria, where terminating trains would otherwise occupy the through platforms; numerous services now continue on to Rochdale as opposed to terminating at Victoria. It is located at the south end of the main island platform, with the southbound through line having been re-aligned slightly further east to accommodate the new terminating line and is used by the half-hourly stopping service from Blackburn/Clitheroe via Bolton and Victoria.
A 135 metre platform should be able to accommodate a five-car train with 27 metre carriages, so it looks like a 5-carriage Lumo train with 26-metre cars would fit in the bay platform 4.
Will Rochdale Station Accommodate A Pair Of Lumo’s Five-Car Trains?
Consider.
- Lumo’s Hitachi trains, like all their siblings can run in pairs. As I reported in Ten-Car Hull Trains, Hull Trains do it regularly.
- Rochdale station may or may not be able to accommodate a pair of five-car trains, but say if one of Manchester’s Premier League clubs was playing in the FA Cup Final, I’m sure they would find a way to run a ten-car train to London.
- It looks like Warrington Bank Quay, Newton-le-Willows, Eccles and Manchester Victoria could all take 10-car trains.
- Euston probably can as well, as 9-car and 11-car Class 390 trains are 217.5 and 265.3 metres respectively long respectively and a 10-car Lumo train would only be 260 metres.
Perhaps, one train can start at Rochdale and the other at Manchester Victoria, before they join at Victoria and go to London as a pair.
Could The Lumo Service Be Extended Across The Pennines?
Distances Along the Calder Valley Line to Leeds are as follows.
- Rochdale 10.4 miles –
- Hebden Bridge – 23.6 miles
- Halifax – 32.7 miles
- Low Moor – 37.5 miles
- Bradford Interchange – 40.4 miles
- Leeds – 49.8 miles
Note.
- The 70 km. rang of a Lumo train will be 43.5 miles.
- The train can be charged at both end stations and will be fully charged, when it leaves Manchester Victoria and Leeds.
- There are short lengths of electrification at Manchester Victoria and Leeds.
- There may be extra electrification between Bradford Interchange and Leeds, in the next few years.
I am fairly certain, that a battery-electric Lumo Class 803 train will be able to provide a London Euston and Leeds service.
How Long Will Services Take?
Timings on the extended route from London Euston to Manchester Victoria, Rochdale, Bradford and Leeds would take.
- London-Euston – Warrington Bank Quay – One hour and forty-four minutes – Current Avanti timings.
- Warrington Bank Quay – Newton-le-Willows -Eleven minutes – Current Northern timings.
- Newton-le-Willows – Eccles -Ten minutes – Current Northern timings.
- Eccles – Manchester Victoria – Ten minutes – Current Northern timings.
- Manchester Victoria – Rochdale – Fourteen minutes – Current Northern timings.
- Rochdale – Hebden Bridge – Sixteen minutes – Current Northern timings.
- Hebden Bridge – Halifax – Fifteen minutes – Current Northern timings.
- Halifax – Low Moor – Six minutes – Current Northern timings.
- Low Moor – Bradford Interchange -Ten minutes – Current Northern timings.
- Bradford Interchange – Leeds – Nineteen minutes – Current Northern timings.
Totals.
- London and Manchester Victoria – Two hours and fifteen minutes.
- London and Rochdale – Two hours and twenty-nine minutes.
- London and Bradford – Three hours and six minutes.
- London and Leeds – Three hours and twenty-five minutes.
I suspect times could be speeded up a bit.
Proposed Developments Of Manchester Metrolink
This sub-title has its own Wikipedia entry.
Developments that would be beneficial to a Lumo service might include.
A station at Cop Road on the Oldham and Rochdale Line, that would support new housing.
Tram-trains between Oldham and Heywood On the Calder Valley Line.
These two developments will directly bring more passengers to the Lumo service, but because the Lumo service has links with the Metrolink at Eccles, Manchester Victoria and Rochdale any Metrolink improvements should benefit the Lumo service.
3rd October 2024 – A Day In Liverpool
A Three-Leg Journey North
This is the second time, I’ve bought one of there journeys North and they are a pain, unless you want to guarantee seats.
I suppose, I should buy my tickets earlier, but if I can buy my rickets on the day on other train companies, I would prefer to do it on Avanti West Coast.
Avanti West Coast’s problem is that they haven’t got their new Class 807 trains into service yet, which will double the services to Liverpool.
T arrived at Warrington Bank Quay on time and the transfer to Newton-le-Willows went smoothly, but then, I waited thirty minutes for my train to Liverpool Lime Street.
This OpenRailwayMap shows the route I took.
Note.
- Liverpool Lime Street station is at the Western side of the map.
- Newton-le-Willows station is marked by the blue arrow in the top right corner of the map.
- Warrington Bank Quay station is in the bottom right corner of the map.
It does seem a round about route, But I got there. Although, I was late.
Hopefully, in a couple of years, you’ll be able to take a local train between Liverpool Lime Street and Newton-le-Willows stations to link up with FirstGroup’s low-cost Lumo Open Access service between Euston and Rochdale.
A Single Journey Home
I was booked home on the 18:43 train from Lime Street, but as you can often do, I asked and was allowed to board the 17:43.
A Crowded And Crazy Euston
I arrived back at Euston at 20:00, but it was crowded, as the station is very much a building site for High Speed Two.
I felt I would treat myself to a taxi, but I couldn’t find any.
So I took a 205 bus along Euston Road to King’s Cross, where I jumped on the the Circle Line for Moorgate.
From there I took my usual 141 bus home.
A friendly station guy at Moorgate, indicated, there might not be any taxis at Euston.
I’d also found earlier, that there were no escalators to the Underground.
Perhaps more than ever, care should be taken at Euston, when getting to and from the station.
It Looks To Me That High Speed Two Has Got Their Planning Wrong At Euston
The big problem at Euston is getting to and from the National Rail station from East or West,
Compare Euston in this respect with Liverpool Street, King’s Cross, St. Pancras or Paddington.
In The New Step-Free Entrance At Euston Square Station, I show the plans for step-free access to the sub-surface lines.
This new entrance to Euston station, should be built first.
All the dithering about High Speed Two seems to have delayed it!
The Anonymous Widower 