ORR: Open Access Services Given Green Light Between London And Stirling
The title of this post is the same as that of this press release from the Office of Rail and Road.
This is the sub-heading.
The latest access decision by the Office of Rail and Road (ORR) provides more services for rail passengers travelling between London and central Scotland.
These five paragraphs detail the ORR’s decision.
ORR has today (7 March) given the go-ahead for Grand Union Trains, an open access operator, to start a new train service between London and the city of Stirling, from June 2025. ORR’s decision will offer more choice to passengers, bring private sector investment to the railway and increase competition.
Grand Union Trains will introduce four new return services per day between London Euston and Stirling stations. These services will also call at Milton Keynes Central, Nuneaton, Crewe (subject to agreement between Grand Union Trains and Network Rail), Preston, Carlisle, Lockerbie, Motherwell, Whifflet, Greenfaulds and Larbert. Larbert, Greenfaulds and Whifflet will receive their first direct services to London.
ORR found that the proposed services would increase choice for passengers, significantly increasing direct journey opportunities to and from London and central and southern Scotland, while making use of existing capacity on the network.
The new services will be the first run by an open access operator on the West Coast Mainline. Open access operators run services independently of government funding as they do not have a franchise agreement with government.
Following ORR’s decision to approve new Grand Union Trains services between Carmarthen in south Wales and London Paddington in 2022, ORR has now approved open access services on three of Britain’s major routes.
Note.
- The Grand Union service appears to be running into London Euston. Earlier plans had it terminating at Queen’s Park station.
- Larbert, Greenfaulds and Whifflet will receive their first direct services to London.
- London Euston and Stirling is electrified all the way.
- The third open access service, that the ORR has approved is the Lumo service between King’s Cross and Edinburgh via the East Coast Main Line.
I have a few thoughts.
Stirling Is An Ideal Place To Explore Central Scotland By Train
In Stirling, I give the reasons, why I spent a couple of days in Stirling, when I wanted to visit several places in Central Scotland.
Note.
- Stirling has direct services to Aberdeen, Dundee, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Inverness and Perth.
- Aberdeen is one hour and 15 minutes away.
- Dundee is just 63 minutes away.
- Edinburgh is just 48 minutes away.
- Glasgow is just 39 minutes away.
- Inverness is two hours and 46 minutes away.
Stirling has about a dozen affordable hotels and guest houses within walking distance of the station, as this map shows.
Stirling would appear to have got Central Scotland covered.
Could The Train Serve Gleneagles?
Gleneagles is about twenty minutes North of Stirling and is served by the Caledonian Sleeper from London.
This Google Map shows the area around Gleneagles station.
Note.
- Gleneagles station is at the bottom of the map.
- The red arrow indicates the famous Gleneagles hotel.
- The pink dots are other hotels.
- Airbnb lists several very splendid properties in the varea.
Not everybody, who goes to the Gleneagles area will be exceedingly rich and I could see the Gleneagles area generating substantial business for Grand Union Trains. I suspect the best way to serve Gleneagles would be a zero-emission coach from Stirling.
Along The Motherwell And Cumbernauld Line
Between Motherwell and Stirling, a lot of the route used is on the Motherwell and Cumbernauld Line.
- The line is fully-electrified.
- It is only 28.9 miles between Motherwell and Stirling.
- \cumbernaukd and Motherwell takes 20 minutes.
I do wonder, if extra stops might be worthwhile.
Motherwell Has Good Connections To Edinburgh And Glasgow
As well as Stirling, Motherwell has good connections to both Edinburgh and Glasgow, so some passengers might find their most convenient route involves a change at Motherwell.
Nuneaton And Scotland Would Get A New Service
Nuneaton has been named by Avanti West Coast, as a place that needs more trains, as it connects with the service between Birmingham and Stansted Airport, via Coleshill Parkway, Leicester, Peterborough, March, Ely and Cambridge.
I suspect that, Nuneaton will become an interchange, between East Anglia and, the North West and West Scotland.
Milton Keynes And Scotland Should Get An Improved Service
Consider.
- It appears that all Avanti West Coast services between Milton Keynes and Scotland, go via Birmingham.
- I suspect that Grand Union’s route using the Trent Valley Line could be faster with similar trains.
- Creating a new route between Milton Keynes and Stirling could be a good move, as it gives one-change access to much of Central Scotland.
- Milton Keynes has good local connections to places like Northampton, Rugby, Tring and Watford Junction.
- Milton Keynes will be a stop on the new East-West Railway.
- From many stations, it will be quicker to go via Milton Keynes rather than Euston.
I suspect Milton Keynes could be a nice little earner.
Will Grand Union’s Trains Be Fitted With Digital Signalling?
Consider.
- At some point in the next ten years the West Coast Main Line will be fitted with digital signalling, to enable trains to run at 140 mph on selected parts of the route.
- Digital signalling will allow extra services between London Euston and Motherwell.
- Motherwell and London Euston is 388 miles.
I suspect, that Grand Union’s Trains will need to be fitted with digital signalling, so they can save time on services and possibly add in a few more.
It will add costs, although the faster speed will surely attract passengers.
Will Grand Union’s Trains Be Electric?
There are these train services going between England and Scotland.
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston to Edinburgh Waverley via Birmingham New Street – 7 tpd – Class 390 – Electric
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston to Glasgow Central via Birmingham New Street – 5 tpd – Class 390 – Electric
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston to Glasgow Central via Trent Valley – 1 tph – Class 390 – Electric
- CrossCountry – Plymouth to Edinburgh Waverley – 1 tph – Class 220/221 – Diesel – Uses diesel all the time
- LNER – London King’s Cross/Leeds to Aberdeen – 4 tpd – Class 800 – Bi-mode – Uses diesel North of Edinburgh
- LNER – London King’s Cross to Inverness – 1 tpd – Class 800 – Bi-mode – Uses diesel North of Stirling
- LNER – London King’s Cross to Edinburgh Waverley – 3p2h – Class 800 – Bi-mode or Class 801 – Electric
- LNER – London King’s Cross to Glasgow Central – 1 tpd – Class 801 – Electric
- LNER – London King’s Cross to Stirling – 1 tpd – Class 801 – Electric
- Lumo – London King’s Cross to Edinburgh – 5 tpd – Class 803 – Electric
- TransPennine Express – Newcastle to Edinburgh Waverley – 7 tpd – Class 802 – Bi-mode
- TransPennine Express – Liverpool Lime Street to Glasgow Central – 2 tpd – Class 397 – Electric
- TransPennine Express – Manchester Airport to Edinburgh Waverly – 1 tp2h – Class 397 – Electric
- TransPennine Express – Manchester Airport to Glasgow Central – 1 tp2h – Class 397 – Electric
Note.
- tpd is trains per day.
- tph is trains per hour.
- tp2h is trains per two hours.
- LNER services to Glasgow and Stirling are likely to be dropped.
- Some Lumo services are likely to be extended from Edinburgh to Glasgow.
- Many services South from Stirling to Edinburgh Waverley and Glasgow Queen Street are electric.
The current two tpd direct trains to Stirling are electric and if you change at Edinburgh Waverley or Glasgow, it is likely to be an all-electric service.
For marketing reasons, I would recommend, that Grand Union Trains ran electric trains between London Euston and Stirling, as they are competing against an all-electric service.
Although to meet service dates it might be necessary to run something like a diesel Class 222 train to get the service started.
What Trains Will Grand Union Use?
The Wikipedia entry for Grand Union Trains, says this for their London Euston and Stirling service.
In 2023 Grand Union revised its proposal changing its planned rolling stock to Class 22x units, at the same time the start date for this service was changed to June 2025.
I would suspect they will put in the order for new electric trains fairly sharpish.
The new trains could be.
- A variant of Hitachi’s Class 800 trains.
- A variant of CAF’s Class 397 trains.
Would they have an emergency battery un case of overhead line failure?
How Long Will A Service Take?
The service can be divided into two sections.
- London Euston and Motherwell – 388 miles.
- Motherwell and Stirling – 28.9 miles.
Note.
- The 08:30 train from Euston to Motherwell takes 4 hours and 17 minutes with six stops via Nuneaton.
- The Grand Union Trains service will also have six stops and go via Nuneaton.
I would expect with today’s signalling and electric trains, that Euston and Motherwell would take a maximum of 4 hours and 17 minutes.
- The twenty minute time to Cumbernauld could be added.
- The twenty-five minute time between Cumbernauld and Stirling could be added.
It looks the time would be just over five hours.
I doubt there would be much scope for increasing speed North of Motherwell, but could there be savings made to the South of Motherwell?
Consider.
- London Euston and Motherwell is 388 miles.
- Four hours and 17 minutes is 257 minutes.
- Motherwell is on the main London Euston and Glasgow Central route.
This is an average speed between London Euston and Motherwell of 90.6 mph.
By comparison.
- London King’s Cross and Edinburgh is 392.6 miles.
- Journeys can take four hours and 20 minutes or 260 minutes.
This is an average speed between London King’s Cross and Edinburgh of 90.6 mph.
In the next decade, there will be improvements on both the East and West Coast Main Lines.
- King’s Cross and Edinburgh is currently being digitally signalled.
- London Euston and Glasgow Central is likely to be an early priority for digital signalling after London King’s Cross and Edinburgh is completed.
- When High Speed Two opens to Birmingham and Lichfield, High Speed Two trains between London Euston and Glasgow Central will use the West Coast Main Line to the North of Lichfield.
- I wouldn’t be surprised to see some track realignment and modifications to improve speeds on the West Coast Main Line to the North of Lichfield.
I can build a table of times between London Euston and Motherwell against average speed.
- 90 mph – 4 hours 19 minutes
- 100 mph – 3 hours 53 minutes
- 110 mph – 3 hours 32 minutes
- 120 mph – 3 hours 14 minutes
- 125 mph – 3 hours 6 minutes
- 130 mph – 2 hours 59 minutes
Note.
- Adding 15 minutes gives a London Euston and Glasgow Central time.
- Adding 45 minutes gives a London Euston and Stirling time.
- Averaging 120 mph would give London Euston and Glasgow Central or Stirling times of under four hours.
It strikes me, that to improve Anglo-Scottish relations and to make rail a better alternative to flying, a priority for all West Coast services is to improve the West Coast Main Line and install digital signalling, so that a 120 mph average is possible between London Euston and Motherwell.
What Difference Will High Speed Two Make?
High Speed Two is claiming it will knock thirty minutes off times between London Euston and Glasgow Central, when it opens to Birmingham and Lichfield.
But Grand Union Trains are not expected to use the new line between London Euston and Lichfield, as High Speed Two will, as it will make calling at Milton Keynes and Nuneaton impossible, as they are bypassed by High Speed Two.
Conclusion
This train service is going to be good for Milton Keynes, Nuneaton and Stirling and all the towns in Central Scotland.
But they must make full use of the available electrification.
First Tri-Mode Long Distance Trains For The East Coast Main Line
The title of this post, is the same as that of this press release from LNER.
This is the sub-heading.
London North Eastern Railway (LNER) is pleased to confirm that CAF has been named as the successful bidder to deliver a fleet of 10 new tri-mode trains for LNER. Porterbrook has been chosen as the financier of the new fleet. The trains will be able to operate in electric, battery or diesel mode.
These are the first two paragraphs.
Benefits of tri-mode trains range from a reduction in emissions, particulates, noise and vibration pollution, lower maintenance and operating costs and upgradeable technology, with an expected increase in range and performance as technology develops further. Battery power reduces the need to use diesel traction in areas where overhead powerlines are not available.
Complementing the modern Azuma fleet of 65 trains, the new ten-coach trains will help LNER achieve its vision of becoming the most loved, progressive and trusted train operator in the UK, delivering an exceptional service for the customers and communities served along its 956-mile network.
I have a few thoughts.
Will The Trains Have Rolls-Royce mtu Diesel Engines?
Consider.
- CAF’s Class 195, 196 and 197 Civity trains for the UK all have Rolls-Royce mtu diesel engines.
- Porterbrook are headquartered in Derby.
- Rolls-Royce are headquartered in Derby.
- In Rolls-Royce And Porterbrook Agreement Will Drive Rail Decarbonisation, I talked about how the two companies were planning to decarbonise trains using techniques like mtu Hybrid PowerPacks and hydrogen fuel cells.
I would think it very likely that the new trains will have Rolls-Royce mtu engines.
Will The Trains Have Rolls-Royce mtu Hybrid PowerPacks?
It was in 2018, that I first wrote about mtu Hybrid PowerPacks in Rolls-Royce And Porterbrook Launch First Hybrid Rail Project In The UK With MTU Hybrid PowerPacks.
- Examples of these power packs are now running in Germany, Ireland and the UK.
- The mtu Hybrid PowerPack how has its own web site.
- There is also this YouTube video.
- If CAF use off-the-shelf mtu Hybrid PowerPacks in their Civity trains, there is one big massive plus – They don’t have to develop the complicated control software to get a combination of diesel engines and batteries to perform as immaculately as Busby Berkeley’s dancers or a Brigade of Guards.
- The mtu Hybrid PowerPacks also have a big plus for operators – The batteries don’t need separate charging infrastructure.
- In Rolls-Royce Releases mtu Rail Engines For Sustainable Fuels, I talk about how mtu engines can run on sustainable fuels, such as biodiesel or HVO.
I think it is extremely likely that CAF’s new trains for LNER will be powered by mtu Hybrid PowerPacks.
Class 800 And Class 397 Trains Compared
The Class 800 train is LNER’s workhorse to Scotland from London.
The Class 397 train used by TransPennine Express, is a 125 mph Civity train.
Differences include.
- The Class 800 train can run at 140 mph, where the signalling allows, but is the Class 397 train only capable of 125 mph?
- The Class 397 train accelerate at 0.92 m/s², whereas the Class 800 train can only manage 0.7 m/s².
- The Hitachi train has 14 % more seats, 36 First and 290 Standard as opposed to 22 First and 264 Standard in five-car trains.
I will add to this list.
Will The New Trains Be Capable Of 140 mph Running?
As the East Coast Main Line is being fully digitally signalled to allow 140 mph running of the numerous Hitachi expresses on the route, I wouldn’t be surprised to see, that the new CAF trains will be capable of 140 mph.
In this article on Modern Railways, which is entitled LNER Orders CAF Tri-mode Sets, this is said.
The new fleet will be equipped with CAF Signalling’s European Rail Traffic Management System digital signalling. This will align with the East Coast Digital Programme, which aims to introduce European Train Control System (ETCS) on the southern stretch of the East Coast main line from King’s Cross to Stoke Tunnel by 2029.
Later in the article this is said.
LNER has retained 12 ‘91s’ hauling eight rakes of Mk 4s, and the rollout of ETCS is another reason the operator has sought to order the replacement fleet. LNER’s passenger numbers have rebounded more quickly than other operators post-Covid, which has helped make the case for confirming the order.
This does seem sensible.
What Will Be The Range Of The CAF Trains Without Electrification?
The longest LNER route without electrification is the Northern section of the Inverness service between Inverness and Dunblane, which is 146.1 miles. There are also eight stops and some hills.
In Edinburgh to Inverness in the Cab of an HST, there’s a video of the route.
I’m sure that even, if they don’t normally run the new trains to Inverness, being able to do so, could be useful at some point.
It should be noted that the Guinness World Record for battery-electric trains is 139 miles, which is held by a Stadler Akku.
I am left with the conclusion that London and Inverness needs a tri-mode train or lots of electrification. Did this rule out Hitachi?
The Number Of Trains Ordered
The Modern Railways article says this about the number of trains.
The contract includes an eight-year maintenance services agreement with an option to extend; CAF says the order value, including maintenance, exceeds €500 million. When the tender was published the intention was to include an option for five additional sets; LNER confirmed to Modern Railways there is an option to purchase additional sets on top of the base order of 10.
Can we assume this means that other trains will be ordered, if the trains are a success?
Can These New CAF Trains Be Made Net Zero?
This is a paragraph, in the LNER press release.
This new fleet of trains will keep LNER on track to reduce its emissions by 67 per cent by 2035 and be net zero by 2045. LNER has already reduced carbon emissions by 50 per cent compared with 2018/19. Per mile, LNER trains produce 15 times less carbon emissions than a domestic flight.
As the new CAF trains will probably have a service life of at least forty years, there must be some way, that these new trains can be made net zero.
Consider.
- I am absolutely certain, that the new CAF trains will have Rolls-Royce mtu diesel engines.
- LNER’s existing Class 800 and 801 trains have Rolls-Royce mtu diesel engines.
Rolls-Royce mtu according to some of Rolls-Royce’s press releases appear to be developing net zero solutions based on hydrogen or net zero fuels.
This press release from Rolls-Royce is entitled Rolls-Royce Successfully Tests mtu Engines With Pure Hydrogen, suggests that Rolls-Royce mtu are working on a solution.
Routes They Will Serve
The Modern Railways article says this about the routes to be served.
Modern Railways understands the new fleet will be maintained at Neville Hill depot in Leeds and, like the ‘225’ sets, will be used predominantly on services between London and Yorkshire, although unlike the ‘225s’ the tri-modes, with their self-power capability, will be able to serve destinations away from the electrified network such as Harrogate and Hull.
Note.
- This surprised me, as I’d always expected the Yorkshire routes will be served by Hitachi battery-electric trains.
- But it does look that both Harrogate and Hull stations, have long enough platforms to hold a ten-car train.
- With their tri-mode technology, it also looks like the CAF trains won’t be needed to be charged before returning to London.
The last point would enable them to try out new routes.
These are distances from the electrification of the East Coast Main Line of the destinations that LNER served, where there is not full electrification.
- Aberdeen via Ladybank – 91.4 miles
- Carlisle via Skipton – 86.8 miles
- Cleethorpes via Newark and Lincoln – 63.9 miles
- Harrogate via Leeds – 18.3 miles
- Huddersfield via Leeds – 17.2 miles
- Hull via Temple Hirst junction – 36.1 miles
- Inverness via Dunblane – 146.1 miles
- Lincoln via Newark – 16.7 miles
- Middlesbrough via Northallerton – 22.2 miles
- Scarborough via York – 42.1 miles
- Sunderland via Northallerton – 47.4 miles
Note.
- The first place after the ‘via’ is where the electrification ends.
- Carlisle could be a possibility during High Speed Two upgrading of the West Coast Main Line or for an enthusiasts’ special or tourist train.
- Cleethorpes is a possible new service for LNER. I wrote about this in LNER To Serve Cleethorpes.
- Scarborough must be a possible new service for LNER.
- All stations can take ten-car trains, with the possible exception of Middlesbrough, which is currently being upgraded.
- Huddersfield and Leeds is being electrified under the TransPennine Upgrade.
This would appear to show that LNER need enough bi-mode or tri-mode trains to run services to Aberdeen, Cleethorpes, Harrogate, Hull, Inverness, Lincoln, Middlesbrough and Sunderland.
But.
- It would appear that the initial batch of trains, will not be serving the North of Scotland.
- Aberdeen and Inverness could be served, when there is enough electrification at the Southern end.
I am also fairly sure, that no significant infrastructure is required.
Do Hitachi Have A Problem?
I am starting to wonder, if Hitachi are having trouble with the designing and building of their battery packs.
- It’s not like Hitachi to allow someone to run off with a €500 million contract from under their nose.
- Are they short of capacity to build the trains at Newton Aycliffe?
But then they’re probably up to their elbows in work on the High Speed Two Classic-Compatible trains.
Are There Any Other Routes, Where The New CAF Trains Could Be Employed?
The trains would certainly be suitable for these routes.
- Chiltern – InterCity services.
- CrossCountry Trains – Fleet replacement
- Grand Central Trains – Fleet replacement
- Grand Union Trains – For Carmarthen and Stirling open access services.
- Great Western Railway – Replacing Castles in the South West.
- ScotRail – Replacing Inter7City trains.
- South Western Railway – Basingstoke and Exeter St. Davids and other routes.
Note.
- CAF could sell a lot of trains.
- I estimate that fleet replacement for Grand Central Trans would cost around €350 million
- The specification would vary according to the route.
Could CAF have got the LNER order, because they have the capacity in the Newport factory?
Conclusion
It looks like CAF have done a good job in designing the trains.
I’m also fairly sure that CAF are using Rolls-Royce mtu PowerPacks.
Will High Speed Two Lite Make Stafford An Important Station?
Stafford station is where the Trent Valley Line joins the West Coast Main Line and with the current proposals for High Speed Two, which I refer to as High Speed Two Light, it will also have to handle those High Speed Two services to and from Crewe.
Current Services Through Stafford Station
These are current services through Stafford station.
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Blackpool North via Birmingham – 2 tpd – Stops at Wolverhampton, Stafford and Crewe
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Glasgow Central via Birmingham – 5 tpd – Stops at Wolverhampton, Stafford and Crewe
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Edinburgh via Birmingham – 7 tpd – Stops at Wolverhampton, Stafford and Crewe
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Blackpool North via Trent Valley – 1 tpd – Stops at Stafford and Crewe
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Glasgow Central via Trent Valley – 1 tph – Non-Stop
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Holyhead via Trent Valley – 8 tpd – Stops at Stafford and Crewe
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street via Trent Valley – 1 tph – Stops at Crewe
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly via Trent Valley – 1 tph – Stops at Stafford and Crewe
- CrossCountry – Birmingham New Street and Manchester via Wolverhampton and Stoke-on-Trent – 2 tph – Stops at Wolverhampton, Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent.
- West Midlands – London Euston and Crewe via Trent Valley – 1 tph – Stops at Stafford and Crewe
- West Midlands – Birmingham New Street and Crewe via Wolverhampton and Stoke-on-Trent – 1 tph – Stops at Wolverhampton, Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent and Crewe
- West Midlands – Birmingham New Street and Liverpool Lime Street via Wolverhampton – 1 tph – Stops at Wolverhampton, Stafford and Crewe
Note.
- tpd is trains per day.
- tph is trains per hour.
- Through Stafford station, there are totals of 23 tpd and 8 tph.
- Along the Trent Valley Line, there are totals of 9 tpd and 4 tph.
- North of Stafford on the West Coast Main Line, there are totals of 23 tpd and 4 tph.
- South of Stafford on the West Coast Main Line, there are totals of 14 tpd and 4 tph.
- Between Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent, there are totals of 3 tph.
Stafford is a very busy station.
Services have these frequencies from Stafford.
- Crewe – 21 tpd and 3 tph.
- Stoke-on-Trent – 3 tph.
- London Euston – 23 tpd and 4 tph.
- Wolverhampton – 13 tpd and 4 tph.
Could Stoke-on-Trent and Stafford do with a few extra services?
High Speed Two Services Through Stafford Station
This graphic shows High Speed Two services after Phase 2b is completed.
Note.
- Services shown in blue are run by High Speed Two Full Size trains.
- Services shown in yellow are run by High Speed Two Classic-Compatible trains.
- Each of these trains will have a frequency of one tph.
These could be High Speed Two services through Stafford station, when High Speed Two Lite opens.
- High Speed Two – London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street/Lancaster via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 1 tph – Stops at Crewe
- High Speed Two – London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 1 tph – Stops at Crewe
- High Speed Two – London Euston and Macclesfield via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 1 tph – Stops at Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent
- High Speed Two – London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 3 tph
- High Speed Two – London Euston and Glasgow/Edinburgh via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 2 tph
- High Speed Two – Birmingham and Glasgow/Edinburgh via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 1 tph
- High Speed Two – Birmingham and Manchester Piccadilly via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 2 tph
Note.
- Through Stafford station, there are totals of 11 tph.
- Along the Trent Valley Line, there are totals of 11 tph.
- North of Stafford on the West Coast Main Line, there are totals of 11 tph.
- Between Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent, there are totals of 1 tph.
There are a lot of trains to squeeze through. But remember that High Speed Two signalling is designed to handle 18 tph.
Combined Services Through Stafford Station
These could be the combined current High Speed Two services through Stafford station, when High Speed Two Lite opens.
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Blackpool North via Birmingham – 2 tpd – Stops at Wolverhampton, Stafford and Crewe
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Glasgow Central via Birmingham – 5 tpd – Stops at Wolverhampton, Stafford and Crewe
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Edinburgh via Birmingham – 7 tpd – Stops at Wolverhampton, Stafford and Crewe
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Blackpool North via Trent Valley – 1 tpd – Stops at Stafford and Crewe
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Glasgow Central via Trent Valley – 1 tph – Non-Stop
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Holyhead via Trent Valley – 8 tpd – Stops at Stafford and Crewe
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street via Trent Valley – 1 tph – Stops at Crewe
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly via Trent Valley – 1 tph – Stops at Stafford and Crewe
- CrossCountry – Birmingham New Street and Manchester via Wolverhampton and Stoke-on-Trent – 2 tph – Stops at Wolverhampton, Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent.
- West Midlands – London Euston and Crewe via Trent Valley – 1 tph – Stops at Stafford and Crewe
- West Midlands – Birmingham New Street and Crewe via Wolverhampton and Stoke-on-Trent – 1 tph – Stops at Wolverhampton, Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent and Crewe
- West Midlands – Birmingham New Street and Liverpool Lime Street via Wolverhampton – 1 tph – Stops at Wolverhampton, Stafford and Crewe
- High Speed Two – London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street/Lancaster via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 1 tph – Stops at Crewe
- High Speed Two – London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 1 tph – Stops at Crewe
- High Speed Two – London Euston and Macclesfield via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 1 tph – Stops at Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent
- High Speed Two – London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 3 tph
- High Speed Two – London Euston and Glasgow/Edinburgh via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 2 tph
- High Speed Two – Birmingham and Glasgow/Edinburgh via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 1 tph
- High Speed Two – Birmingham and Manchester Piccadilly via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 2 tph
Note.
- Through Stafford station, there are totals of 23 tpd and 19 tph.
- Along the Trent Valley Line, there are totals of 9 tpd and 15 tph.
- North of Stafford on the West Coast Main Line, there are totals of 23 tpd and 15 tph.
- Between Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent, there are totals of 4 tph.
But there are duplicate services.
High Speed Two services to Liverpool, Manchester and Scotland, will replace Avanti West Coast services.
High Speed Two services between Birmingham and Manchester, will replace CrossCountry services.
Removing these current services gives.
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Blackpool North via Birmingham – 2 tpd – Stops at Wolverhampton, Stafford and Crewe
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Blackpool North via Trent Valley – 1 tpd – Stops at Stafford and Crewe
- Avanti West Coast – London Euston and Holyhead via Trent Valley – 8 tpd – Stops at Stafford and Crewe
- West Midlands – London Euston and Crewe via Trent Valley – 1 tph – Stops at Stafford and Crewe
- West Midlands – Birmingham New Street and Crewe via Wolverhampton and Stoke-on-Trent – 1 tph – Stops at Wolverhampton, Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent and Crewe
- West Midlands – Birmingham New Street and Liverpool Lime Street via Wolverhampton – 1 tph – Stops at Wolverhampton, Stafford and Crewe
- High Speed Two – London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street/Lancaster via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 1 tph – Stops at Crewe
- High Speed Two – London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 1 tph – Stops at Crewe
- High Speed Two – London Euston and Macclesfield via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 1 tph – Stops at Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent
- High Speed Two – London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 3 tph
- High Speed Two – London Euston and Glasgow/Edinburgh via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 2 tph
- High Speed Two – Birmingham and Glasgow/Edinburgh via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 1 tph
- High Speed Two – Birmingham and Manchester Piccadilly via High Speed Two and Trent Valley Line – 2 tph
Note.
- Through Stafford station, there are totals of 11 tpd and 14 tph.
- Along the Trent Valley Line, there are totals of 11 tpd and 12 tph.
- North of Stafford on the West Coast Main Line, there are totals of 9 tpd and 12 tph.
- South of Stafford on the West Coast Main Line, there are totals of 2 tpd and 2 tph.
- Between Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent, there are totals of 2 tph.
With these frequencies, I suspect digital signalling will be needed.
Services have these frequencies from Stafford.
- Crewe – 11 tpd and 5 tph.
- Stoke-on-Trent – 2 tph.
- London Euston – 11 tpd and 4 tph.
- Wolverhampton – 3 tpd and 2 tph.
Note.
- Stoke-on-Trent needs more trains.
- There is virtually no trains on the West Coast Main Line to the South of Stafford.
- The frequencies indicate digital signalling will be needed.
On this brief look, I think that High Speed Two Lite will open up a lot of possibilities.
Could Manchester Airport Be Accessed From The West By A Tunnel Under The M56?
This OpenRailwayMap shows the railways of East London between Dalston Junction and Stratford International stations.
Note.
- Dalston Kingsland station is marked with an arrow in the West of the map.
- Stratford International station is marked by the blue lettering in the East of the map.
- The orange line between them is the North London Line.
- There are also two pink lines, which indicate High Speed One, which is dug several metres below the North London Line.
It can’t be much different to dig a high speed railway underneath a motorway. Has anybody done this?
This OpenRailwayMap shows the railways leading to Manchester Airport.
Note.
- Junctions 5 and 6 of the M56 motorway are on the Western edge of the Airport.
- The red tracks are the Styal Line.
- The mauve tracks are the Metrolink.
- It should be noted that railway lines pass under Heathrow Airport’s runways.
Point 4 makes me sure, that Manchester Airport can have a station connected to the West by a railway under the M56.
This OpenRailwayMap shows the railways around Weaver Junction on the West Coast Main Line, where the trains branch off to Liverpool.
Note.
- The West Coast Main Line goes down the Eastern side of the map.
- Warrington Bank Quay is the next station to the North.
- The Liverpool Branch goes off to the West.
- The M56 tuns diagonally across the map from the North-East corner crossing both both branches of the West Coast Main Line.
This Google Map shows where the M56 crosses over the West Coast Main Line to Warrington Bank Quay.
Note.
- The M56 motorway is obvious.
- The Eastbound motorway goes to Manchester Airport and Manchester.
- The junction is numbered 11.
- The railway runs down the Western side of the map.
I believe that it would be possible to connect a railway running East under the motorway to the West Coast Main Line.
This Google Map shows where the M56 crosses over the Liverpool branch of the West Coast Main Line.
Note.
- There is no motorway junction here.
- The North-East bound motorway goes to Manchester Airport and Manchester.
- The railway runs slightly diagonally across the bottom of the map.
- The Westbound railway goes to Runcorn and Liverpool.
- The Eastbound railway goes to Weaver Junction, Crewe and the South.
There would only need to be a connection between Liverpool and the railway under the motorway going to and from Manchester Airport.
I have some further thoughts and questions.
This Is Just My First Thought
I am happier about the connection to the Liverpool branch than the Northern connection.
But then I feel there are several routes at both junctions, some of which will take a wider route.
How Long Will The Tunnels Be?
Between Junctions 11 and 6 on the M56 is 16 miles.
At What Speed Would The Trains Run?
I suspect that once on the straight section between Junctions 11 and 6, speeds of up to 90 or 100 mph should be possible, but speeds would probably be lower at the junctions to the West Coast Main Line.
How Would It Connect To Manchester Piccadilly?
The tunnel would continue the other side of the Airport and it’s a further 9.4 miles to under Manchester Piccadilly.
In The Rival Plans For Piccadilly Station, That Architects Say Will ‘Save Millions’, I wrote about Weston Williamson’s plan for Manchester Piccadilly station.
This was their visualisation.
Note.
- In the visualisation, you are observing the station from the East.
- The existing railway lines into Piccadilly station are shown in red.
- Stockport and Manchester Airport are to the left, which is to the South.
- Note the dreaded Castlefield Corridor in red going off into the distance to Oxford Road and Deansgate stations.
- The new high speed lines are shown in blue.
- To the left they go to Manchester Airport and then on to London, Birmingham and the South, Warrington and Liverpool and Wigan, Preston, Blackpool, Barrow-in-Furness, the North and Scotland.
- To the right, they go to Huddersfield, Bradford, Leeds, Hull and the North East, and Sheffield, Doncaster and the East.
- Between it looks like a low-level High Speed station with at least four tracks and six platforms.
- The high speed lines could be oriented so they ran East-West, rather than North-South in this visualisation.
- The Manchester Metrolink is shown in yellow.
The potential for over-site development is immense. If the Station Square Tower was residential, the penthouses would be some of the most desirable places to live in the North.
Onward From Manchester Piccadilly
I would hope that a connection could be made to the Huddersfield Line to the East of Manchester Piccadilly station, so that trains could use the TransPennine Upgrade all the way to Leeds.
High Speed Two To Stoke-on-Trent
Some of you out there might be a bit worried after Rishi Sunak’s speech today, when he announced he’d cancelled High Speed Two, as you might be losing a future high speed service.
Currently, Stoke-on-Trent is served by two trains per hour (tph), that run between London and Manchester Piccadilly.
- One train calls at Milton Keynes Central, Rugby, Macclesfield and Stockport, and takes about 1:33 to Stoke and 2:12 to Manchester Piccadilly.
- The other calls at Nuneaton and Stockport, and takes about 1:30 to Stoke and 2:06 to Manchester Piccadilly.
- Trains are both 9-car and 11-car Class 390 trains or Pendolinos.
- All trains go via Colwich.
This map shows the Colwich, Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent.
Note.
- Electrified lines are shown in red.
- The line across the South-West corner of the map is the West Coast Main Line.
- Stafford is the Northern end of the Trent Valley Line, which runs East along the bottom of the map.
- The Trent Valley Line, which is a by-pass of the West Coast Main Line, rejoins that line at Rugby.
- Stoke-on-Trent is in the North-West corner of the map.
- Colwich is in the South-East corner of the map and is marked by a blue arrow.
- There are two routes between Stone-on-Trent and Colwich; the more-direct Northern route and a Southern route via Stafford.
The current services between London and Stoke-on-Trent use the more-direct Northern route, although they can take the Southern route via Stafford.
This must mean that as Stoke-on-Trent services take the Northern route, there are more paths through Stafford for West Coast Main Line services to and from Liverpool, Manchester and Scotland.
This graphic shows High Speed Two services after Phase 2b is completed.
Note.
- Services shown in blue are run by High Speed Two Full Size trains.
- Services shown in yellow are run by High Speed Two Classic-Compatible trains.
- Each of these trains will have a frequency of one tph.
The third High Speed Two Classic-Compatible train from the left is a London and Macclesfield service, which will stop at Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent, has the following timings from London.
- Stafford – 0:55 – 22 minutes faster
- Stoke-on-Trent – 1:10 – 14 minutes faster
- Macclesfield – 1:30 – 11 minutes faster
I have a few thoughts and questions.
How Does This High Speed Two Service Get To And From London?
The service goes through Stafford and then takes the Trent Valley Line to the South.
This map clipped from the HS2 site, shows the original layout of HS2 to the North and East of Lichfield.
Note.
- High Speed Two runs North-South across the map.
- After the Junction by Fradley South, the now-scrapped High Speed Two to Crewe and the North, is the branch to the East.
- The other branch connects to the Trent Valley Line, which can be picked out North of Lichfield, where it passes through Lichfield Trent Valley station.
- The Trent Valley Line goes North-West through Colwich to Stafford, where the line rejoins the West Coast Main Line.
As the Eastern branch North from the junction has been scrapped, all trains between London and North would go via this link between High Speed Two at Lichfield and Trent Valley Line through Stafford.
Can The Current Trains and the High Speed Two Classic-Compatible Trains Share Tracks?
The answer will be yes, as the High Speed Two Classic-Compatible trains have been designed to share tracks with existing trains.
Full digital signalling may be needed to enable 140 mph running and more paths on the classic lines.
Will There Be A Second High Speed Two Service To Stoke-On-Trent And Stafford?
One of the problems with High Speed Two is that it won’t call at stations in the Midlands that are currently served by Avanti West Coast.
- Currently, stations with an Avanti call are Milton Keynes Central, Nuneaton and Rugby.
- Avanti’s second Liverpool service will call at Tamworth and Lichfield Trent Valley.
- In the June 2023 Edition of Modern Railways, Avanti’s Managing Director; Andy Mellors talks about the benefits the company accrues from stopping in the Midlands.
I believe that after High Speed Two opens, that a semi-fast service could run between London and Manchester.
- It would be run by a Class 390 train or Pendolino.
- It would use the route currently used by Manchester services via Stoke-on-Trent.
- At the Southern end, it would terminate in London Euston.
- It could call at Watford Junction, Milton Keynes Central, Rugby, Nuneaton, Lichfield Trent Valley, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield and Stockport.
- ,Station stops would be arranged as to need.
- A one stop service to London takes 90 minutes from Stoke-on-Trent, with a two-stopper taking 93 minutes, so does each stop with a Pendolino add three minutes to the journey time?
Such a service could be developed to give stations like Stoke-on-Trent a second service to London.
The Lines Around Stafford
This map from OpenRailwayMap shows the lines around Stafford.
Note.
- Red lines are electrified.
- Black Lines are not.
- Stafford is marked by the blue arrow.
Selective electrification could probably improve connectivity by a large margin.
This Google map shows Stafford station.
I feel that Stafford station could be developed into a major interchange between High Speed Two and local services.
Conclusion
It looks to me that Stoke-on-Trent will be well-served by High Speed Two.
See Also
Could High Speed Two Finish At Lichfield?
High Speed Two To Crewe
There has been a lot of speculation about the Northern end of High Speed Two, so I might as well add sort out a few facts and add a bit of speculation of my own.
Sample Times Between London And Crewe
These are selected times from the 27th September 2023.
- 07:30 – Glasgow Non-Stop – 1:29
- 07:33 – Manchester Piccadilly – 1:37 – Stops at Stafford
- 07:43 – Liverpool Lime Street – 1:40 – Stops at Milton Keynes
- 08:30 – Glasgow Non-Stop – 1:29
- 08:33 – Manchester Piccadilly – 1:37 – Stops at Stafford
- 08:43 – Liverpool Lime Street – 1:40 – Stops at Milton Keynes
- 09:02 – Holyhead – 1:40 – Stop at Stafford
- 15:02 – Chester – 1:40 – Stops at Tamworth, Lichfield Trent Valley and Stafford
Note.
- The 07:30 and 08:30 Glasgow services appears to be pathed for one of the Class 390 Pendolino electric trains and were run by Pendolinos.
- The 07:33 and 08:33 Manchester services appears to be pathed for one of the Pendolino electric trains and were run by Pendolinos.
- The 07:43 and 08:43 Liverpool services appears to be pathed for one of the new Class 807 electric trains, but were run by Pendolinos.
- The 15:02 Chester service appears to be pathed for one of the new Class 805 bi-mode trains.
- All services except the Glasgow services stop at Crewe.
- As London Euston and Crewe is 158 miles, the non-stop Glasgow services average 107 mph, the one-stop Manchester service averages 98 mph and the one-stop Liverpool service averages 95 mph.
I have some further thoughts.
How Long Does A Stop Take?
I’ve looked at some stops of Glasgow, Liverpool and Manchester services
Crewe
Looking at timings between Weaver Junction and Norton Bridge, I have found the following times.
- Glasgow-Euston – 23 minutes
- Liverpool-Euston – 28 minutes
Note.
- Manchester services don’t go through Weaver Junction.
- Weaver Junction and Norton Bridge are respectively North and South of Crewe.
- The Liverpool service stops at Crewe, where it has a dwell time of two minutes.
- The Glasgow service goes straight through Crewe.
The Crewe stop takes a total of 5 minutes of which 3 minutes are deceleration and acceleration to and from linespeed.
Stafford
Looking at timings between Norton Bridge and Colwich, I have found the following times.
- Glasgow-Euston – 7½ minutes
- Liverpool-Euston – 7½ minutes
- Manchester -Euston – 14 minutes
Note.
- Norton Bridge and Colwich are respectively North and South of Stafford.
- The Manchester service stops at Stafford, where it has a dwell time of two minutes.
- The Glasgow and Liverpool services go straight through Stafford.
The Stafford stop takes a total of 6½ minutes of which 4½ minutes are deceleration and acceleration to and from linespeed.
Milton Keynes
Looking at timings between Weedon and Bletchley, I have found the following times.
- Glasgow-Euston – 11½ minutes
- Liverpool-Euston – 16 minutes
- Manchester -Euston – 12½ minutes
Note.
- Weedon and Bletchley are respectively North and South of Milton Keynes.
- The Liverpool service stops at Milton Keynes, where it has a dwell time of one minute.
- The Glasgow and Manchester services go straight through Milton Keynes.
The Milton Keynes stop takes a total of 4 minutes of which 3 minutes are deceleration and acceleration to and from linespeed.
Average Speeds Between Crewe And London
London Ruston and Crewe is 158 miles according to Real Time Trains.
So what would times would various average speeds deliver?
- 100 mph – 95 minutes
- 110 mph – 86 minutes
- 120 mph – 79 minutes
- 125 mph – 76 minutes
- 130 mph – 73 minutes
- 140 mph – 68 minutes
Obviously, any average speed with over 125 mph running, will need full digital signalling.
Liverpool And London In Two Hours
Tucked away beside the Grand Union Sets Out Stirling Ambitions article in the December 2022 Edition of Modern Railways is a report on Avanti West Coast’s application for a second service between Euston and Liverpool.
This is said.
Avanti West Coast has applied for access rights for its second hourly Euston to Liverpool service, starting from December 2023, although a phased introduction of the new service is likely. This would make use of Avanti’s new fleet of 10×7-car Class 807 Hitachi EMUs, which are expected to enter service from Autumn 2023. The ‘807s’ would be deployed on the current hourly Liverpool service, on which a call at Liverpool South Parkway would be added. (provision is made for this in the December 2022 timetable.).
Pendolinos would then operate the second service each hour, calling at Lichfield Trent Valley and Tamworth.
A linespeed project is in progress to raise the permissible speed for non-tilting trains on the West Coast Main Line, and Avanti’s new Hitachi trains will take advantage of this.
I’ll take a quick look at the Crewe and Runcorn section.
- It is 22.5 miles.
- It takes 19 minutes.
- That is an average speed of 71 mph.
- Crewe and Weaver Junction has a speed limit of at least 110 mph
- Runcorn and Weaver Junction has a speed limit of at least 90 mph for most of the way.
- If with their superior performance, the new Class 807 trains could average 90 mph between Crewe and Runcorn, they would take 15 minutes.
- Achieving the 90 mph average may need a bit of track realignment and some signaling changes.
The four minutes saved would be enough to handle the extra stop at Liverpool South Parkway.
Consider.
- Currently, Pendolino trains do Liverpool and Crewe in 38 minutes, which includes the stop at Runcorn.
- My calculation with the Class 807 trains, shows that with a bit of extra signalling, the new trains could do Liverpool and Crewe in 38 minutes with the two stops.
- The stop at Crewe will subtract 5 minutes from the base journey time.
- The stop at Milton Keynes will subtract 4 minutes from the base journey time.
This means the base journey time between Crewe and London will be 73 minutes.
This would indicate that the trains would be running at 130 mph to achieve the two hours.
But there are five accelerations and five decelerations on a journey between London and Liverpool and the new Class 807 trains are the Lotuses of Hitachi’s family of AT-300 trains; lightweight and powerful.
Suppose they could save thirty seconds for each acceleration and deceleration.
The base journey time between Crewe and London will be 78 minutes.
This would indicate that the trains would be running at over 120 mph to achieve the two hours.
I certainly feel, that Liverpool and London in two hours is certainly possible using the new Class 807 trains.
London and Crewe with two stops would be times at one hour and twelve minutes.
But what about the Pendolinos?
- My last return trip from Liverpool did a practice call at Liverpool South Parkway and still arrived in London a few minutes early.
- The Pendolinos will still benefit from any improvements, between Crewe and Runcorn, which could reduce the Liverpool and Crewe time from 38 minutes to 34 minutes.
- The stop at Crewe will subtract 5 minutes from the base journey time.
- The stops at Lichfield Trent Valley and Tamworth will both subtract 4 minutes from the base journey time.
This means the base journey time between Crewe and London will be 73 minutes, which is the same as for the Class 807 trains.
This would indicate that the trains would be running at 130 mph to achieve the two hours.
Could this average speed be achieved by the selective application of full digital signalling, perhaps on the Trent Valley Line?
But it does appear to me, that the Pendolinos can get very close to two hours between London and Liverpool.
London and Crewe with three stops would be times at one hour and sixteen minutes.
Crewe And London Non-Stop
Consider.
- Pendolinos between London and Glasgow, go non-stop between London and Crewe.
- I have calculated that Pendolinos between London and Liverpool, will take one hour and sixteen minutes with three stops between London and Crewe.
- The three stops take a total of thirteen minutes.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see London and Glasgow Pendolinos take one hour and three minutes between London and Crewe.
This would knock twenty-six minutes off journey times between London and Glasgow.
Conclusion
I believe that with relatively minor improvements on the West Coast Main Line and the Liverpool branch, the following can be achieved.
- Liverpool and London can be around two hours with new Class 807 trains or Pendolinos.
- Liverpool and London services can increase their calls in the Midlands.
- London and Glasgow services can be nearly half-an-hour faster.
- The fastest London and Crewe services could be just over an hour using Pendolinos.
I also believe that the only serious infrastructure needed is some track realignment and some updated signalling.
See Also
Could High Speed Two Finish At Lichfield?
High Speed Two Crosses The West Coast Main Line To The East of Berkswell Station
This map from OpenRailwayMap shows where High Speed Two crosses the West Coast Main Line to the East of Berkswell station.
Note.
- The double orange tracks are the West Coast Main Line.
- Berkswell station is in the North-West corner of the map.
- The dotted red line is the future track of High Speed Two.
I took these pictures today, as my train returned from Birmingham New Street station.
Trains at this point going towards Tile Hill, will be a good point to observe the construction of High Speed Two. Sit in a window seat on the left hand side of the train.
High Speed Two To Liverpool
There has been a lot of speculation about the Northern end of High Speed Two, so I might as well add sort out a few facts and add a bit of speculation of my own.
The Current Liverpool Service
I shall look at the 08:43 train on the 18th September 2023.
- It was a nine-car Class 390 train or Pendolino, which left on time.
- Euston and Liverpool Lime Street are 193.7 miles apart.
- The train called at Milton Keynes Central, Crewe and Runcorn
- The train arrived at Crewe at 10:24 and left at 10:26.
- The train arrived at Runcorn at 10:43 and left at 10:44.
- The train arrived at Liverpool Lime Street at 11:04 on time.
- The journey took two hours and 21 minutes
- The average speed was 82.4 mph.
- The Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street section is 39.7 miles and the train is scheduled to take forty minutes.
- The average speed between Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street is almost exactly 60 mph.
- The slower average speed is because the train is slowing for a gradual stop in Liverpool and the only fast section is the 110 mph section between Crewe and Weaver Junction, where the Liverpool Branch leaves the West Coast Main Line.
- There is one train per hour (tph).
There are probably only limited ways that time can be saved between Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street.
- The West Coast Main Line between Crewe and Weaver Junction takes twelve minutes and has an operating speed of 110 mph, so saving a few minutes might be possible, by upgrading the speed on this line with digital signalling to allow 140 mph running.
- It might be possible to save a couple of minutes at the Runcorn stop by using the superior performance of the new Class 807 or High Speed Two trains.
- The slowing down into and accelerating out of Liverpool might be improved by digital signalling and trains with better performance.
It should be noted that Liverpool Lime Street station was recently remodelled to improve operation of the station and the tracks connecting it to Runcorn.
I would be fairly sure that Network Rail and Avanti West Coast have got Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street times to a minimum. As this route will become part of High Speed Two, I suspect that Network Rail/Avanti have done extensive computer simulations of the route, to make sure they get it as quick and efficient as possible.
The New Class 807 Trains
The Class 807 trains, which enter service this year or early next, are the Lotuses in Hitachi’s AT 300 family of high speed trains.
- They are electric only and have no heavy diesel engines or traction batteries.
- They don’t even have emergency batteries for when the catenary fails.
- They have a redesigned nose. Is it more aerodynamic?
- As with all the other Hitachi high speed trains, they are capable of 125 mph, or 140 mph if the signalling permits.
These trains will undoubtedly have faster acceleration and deceleration and could probably knock minutes off the timings at all the stops.
A Second Hourly Train To Liverpool
Tucked away beside the Grand Union Sets Out Stirling Ambitions article in the December 2022 Edition of Modern Railways is a report on Avanti West Coast’s application for a second service between Euston and Liverpool.
This is said.
Avanti West Coast has applied for access rights for its second hourly Euston to Liverpool service, starting from December 2023, although a phased introduction of the new service is likely. This would make use of Avanti’s new fleet of 10×7-car Class 807 Hitachi EMUs, which are expected to enter service from Autumn 2023. The ‘807s’ would be deployed on the current hourly Liverpool service, on which a call at Liverpool South Parkway would be added. (provision is made for this in the December 2022 timetable.).
Pendolinos would then operate the second service each hour, calling at Lichfield Trent Valley and Tamworth.
A linespeed project is in progress to raise the permissible speed for non-tilting trains on the West Coast Main Line, and Avanti’s new Hitachi trains will take advantage of this.
Note.
- The current Liverpool service stops at Milton Keynes Central, Crewe and Runcorn.
- Liverpool South Parkway station is too short for the longest Pendolinos or Class 390/1 trains.
- When the second service is implemented will it stop at Milton Keynes Central, Crewe, Runcorn and Liverpool South Parkway?
- Will the Pendolinos only stop at Lichfield Trent Valley and Tamworth?
Will Avanti West Coast use the trains to take advantage of their strengths?
- The new lighter Class 807 trains will use their superior acceleration and deceleration to execute fast stops at more stations.
- The shorter Class 807 trains will call at Liverpool South Parkway.
- The current Pendolinos will use their tilt to run as fast as possible between London Euston and Liverpool.
I also suspect that Avanti West Coast will adjust the stopping pattern to attract passengers. I read somewhere, that a stop at Nuneaton to connect to Leicester, Peterborough, Cambridge and Stansted Airport, was a possibility.
More Details Of A Second Hourly Train To Liverpool – 30th September 2023.
Real Time Trains is now showing the details of the second service between London Euston and Liverpool.
These are the future timings of the 09:13 train from Liverpool.
- Liverpool – Leave at 09:13
- Runcorn – Arrive at 09:28 and leave at 09:29½
- Crewe – Arrive at 09:49 and leave at 09:56
- Stafford – Arrive at 10:14½ and leave at 10:16½
- Lichfield Trent Valley – Arrive at 10:29½ and leave at 10:31½
- Tamworth – Arrive at 10:36½ and leave at 10:38½
- Nuneaton – Arrive at 10:49 and leave at 10:51
- Milton Keynes Central – Arrive at 11:21 and leave at 11:23
- Euston – Arrive at 11.59
Note.
- This service has not been activated yet.
- It is pathed for a Class 80x train.
- There are seven stops.
- It will take two hours and 46 minutes.
- Liverpool and Crewe will take 36 minutes.
- There are two other inactivated services like this running through Birmingham and Northampton.
Could these services have been timetabled to test connectivity?
High Speed Two Classic Compatible Trains
These High Speed Two Classic Compatible trains are to be built for High Speed Two.
- They will be able to run on both High Speed Two and current high speed lines like the East Coast Main Line and the West Coast Main Line.
- They will have an operating speed of 205 mph on High Speed Two.
- They will be able to operate at appropriate speeds on existing high speed lines. Typically, that is 125 mph, but with full digital signalling that is 140 mph.
- They are two hundred metres long and are sixty metres shorter than an eleven-car Pendolino.
- They are being built by a Hitachi-Alstom joint venture.
This document on the Government web site is the Train Technical Specification for High Speed Two Classic-Compatible Trains.
Introducing The High Speed Two Classic Compatible Trains Into Service
Consider.
- London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street services can be run by eleven-car Pendolinos.
- It looks like after the introduction of the second service between London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street is introduced, it will be run by Pendolinos and it could be a two-stop service.
- The High Speed Two Classic Compatible trains should be able to run any service currently run by an eleven-car Pendolino.
So will Avanti West Coast use this second hourly London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street service to introduce the new High Speed Two Classic Compatible trains into public service?
- It would make sure the trains and existing track and signals were fully debugged.
- It would inform the public that High Speed Two is on its way.
- It would be good marketing for High Speed Two.
- They might shave a few minutes off journey times.
- It could use all the existing infrastructure.
- It will provide work for Alstom in Derby.
I feel Avanti West Coast just might!
London Euston And Liverpool Lime Street Before Phase 2a Of High Speed Two Opens
According to the Wikipedia entry for High Speed Two, these are the fastest timings.
- London Euston and Crewe – One hour and 30 minutes
- London Euston and Runcorn – One hour and 53 minutes
- London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street – Two hours and 3 minutes
Currently, the fastest London and Liverpool Lime Street trains take two hours and 21 minutes, so are the Class 807 trains going to be eighteen minutes faster?
From these figures and the times of the 0843, I can deduce these journey times.
- Currently, Crewe and Runcorn takes 17 minutes and the Class 807 train will take 23 minutes
- Currently, Runcorn and Liverpool Lime Street takes 20 minutes and the Class 807 train will take 10 minutes
- Currently, Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street takes 38 minutes and the Class 807 train will take 33 minutes
It looks like there may be slight problems with Wikipedia’s figures. But they were published before Avanti West Coast had run a Class 807 train between Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street. I think we’ll have to wait and see what turns up on Saturday, the 9th of December 2023, when the timetables change.
But I do feel now that the Class 807 trains will achieve London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street in two hours and three minutes.
London Euston And Liverpool Lime Street After Phase 2a Of High Speed Two Opens
According to the Wikipedia entry for High Speed Two, these are the timings.
- London Euston and Crewe – 56 minutes
- London Euston and Runcorn – One hour and 14 minutes
- London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street – One hour and 32 minutes
From these figures and the times of the 0843, I can deduce these journey times.
- Currently, Crewe and Runcorn takes 17 minutes and High Speed Two will take 18 minutes
- Currently, Runcorn and Liverpool Lime Street takes 20 minutes and High Speed Two will take 18 minutes
- Currently, Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street takes 38 minutes and High Speed Two will take 36 minutes
There doesn’t seem to be much of a saving between today’s Pendolino and High Speed Two between Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street.
Could it be that the work to improve Liverpool Lime Street station and its approaches a few years ago sorted out a lot of problems and Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street is now almost to the standard needed for High Speed Two?
If savings are made anywhere by High Speed Two, it could be between Runcorn and Liverpool Lime Street.
Looking at the operating speeds on OpenRailwayMap, there appears to be a 30 mph section of track for a couple of miles out of Liverpool Lime Street, which includes a sharp curve.
This Google Map shows the approaches to Lime Street station.
Note.
- The tracks across the top of the map are the main electrified Liverpool and Manchester tracks.
- The building in the middle is Alstom Traincare’s Liverpool Depot.
- The line to Runcorn enters the map in the South-East corner and curves around the depot to join the tracks into Lime Street station.
- The operating speed gradually reduces from 30 mph on this map to less than 15 mph in Lime Street station.
Perhaps, this 30 mph section is to be improved to gain the couple of minutes.
I also think, that savings could be possible at Runcorn station.
If when the second service starts, the Pendolinos don’t stop at Runcorn, that would save a few minutes.
The Class 807 and the High Speed Two Classic Compatible trains with their superior acceleration and deceleration could save a couple of minutes in the stop at Runcorn.
I very much feel that as the Pendolinos manage to achieve Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street in 38 minutes, that Pendolinos on the second service, Class 807 and the High Speed Two Classic Compatible trains, will all manage 36 minutes or less on the route.
London Euston And Liverpool Lime Street After Phase 2b Of High Speed Two Opens
There will be no changes as the full-size High Speed Two trains are not planned to run into Liverpool Lime Street.
Conclusion
It looks to me, that the Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street leg of High Speed Two is more or less complete.
Times between London and Liverpool will be as follows.
- Before High Speed Two Phase 2a – 2 hours and 3 minutes
- After High Speed Two Phase 2a – 1 hour and 32 minutes
- After High Speed Two Phase 2b – 1 hour and 32 minutes
I believe that for many this will be fast enough, especially as it’s nearly complete.
See Also
Could High Speed Two Finish At Lichfield?
New Freight Interchange Connects To West Coast Main Line
The title of this post, is the same as that of this article on Rail Technology Magazine.
This is the sub-heading.
Rail passengers have been thanked after major work to connect a new rail to road freight interchange with the West Coast main line was completed.
These two paragraphs outline the project.
The work, which took nine days, saw new track, points and signalling systems installed to connect the existing railway to the new sidings at the under-construction freight facility at SEGRO logistics park in Northampton.
Once complete, the facility will provide 5 million square ft of warehouse space and employ up to 7,000 people.
This OpenRailwayMap shows the location of SEGRO logistics park in Northampton (SLPN).
Note.
- SEGRO logistics park in Northampton is in the middle of the map.
- The M1 motorway runs along the North-East side of the logistics park
- The complex junction of the M1 at the Eastern side of the logistics park is Junction 15.
- The orange line down the West side of SLPN is the Northampton Loop Line.
- A loop from the Northampton Loop Line is used to create a Rail Freight Interchange on the West side of the logistics park.
- The red line running across the South-West corner of the map is the West Coast Main Line.
The SEGRO logistics park has a comprehensive web site, which shows seven plots.
These are my thoughts.
Freight Trains
Initial plans talk of four freight trains per day, with more to come in the future.
This picture from Network Rail shows the Northern end of the Rail Freight Interchange.
Note.
- There is a freight train, which looks like it’s going North on the Northampton Loop Line.
- There are tunnels at the Northern end of the site.
- This page on the Network Rail web site has another picture and a video.
- It looks like there will be a lot of concrete.
It will be interesting to see the final layout in a year or so.
There Is No Mention Of A Rail Station
In everything I’ve read about the SLPN, there is no mention of a railway station, so this must mean that all the seven thousand or more workers on the site, will get there by road.
The only thing I can see about transport for workers to and from the site is this sentence.
A sustainable bus route will connect SLPN to the town centre and local neighbourhoods to the south.
Well-designed and implemented, it would properly suffice.
Nothing though is said about cycling or walking!
There Is No Mention Of Hydrogen
It is likely, that in the life of SLPN, there will be a significant move to hydrogen-powered heavy trucks.
Has SLPN been designed with hydrogen in mind.
Solar Thermal Heating
The buildings are noted as having solar thermal heating. That is a new one on me, but it seems possible.
I took these pictures as I passed the site on my return from Birmingham on September 21st 2023
One concrete tunnel is clearly visible.
Thoughts On Rail Capacity Between London And The North
This is just a rough calculation to see how many trains can be run between London and the North.
I shall do the calculation by station.
Euston
Trains are.
- Avanti – Birmingham – 1 tph (trains per hour)
- Avanti – Blackpool North – 1 tpd (trains per day)
- Avanti – Blackpool North via Birmingham – 2 tpd
- Avanti – Edinburgh via Birmingham – 1 tp2h – (trains per two hours)
- Avanti – Glasgow – 1 tph
- Avanti – Glasgow via Birmingham – 5 tpd
- Avanti – Holyhead – 8 tpd
- Avanti – Liverpool – 1 tph
- Avanti – Manchester – 3 tph
- WMT – Birmingham – 2 tph
- WMT – Crewe – 1 tph
This gives totals of 9 tph, 1 tp2h and 16 tpd
King’s Cross
Trains are.
- Grand Central – Bradford – 4 tpd
- Grand Central – Sunderland – 6 tpd
- Hull Trains – Beverley – 2 tpd
- Hull Trains – Hull – 5 tpd
- LNER – Bradford- 2 tpd
- LNER – Edinburgh – 3 tp2h
- LNER – Harrogate – 1 tp2h
- LNER – Hull – 1 tpd
- LNER – Leeds – 3 tp2h
- LNER – Lincoln – 1 tp2h
- LNER – Middlesbrough – 1 tpd
- LNER – Skipton – 1 tpd
- LNER – Sunderland – 1 tpd
- LNER – York- 1 tp2h
- Lumo – Edinburgh – 5 tpd
This gives totals of 9 tp2h and 28 tpd
Marylebone
Trains are.
- Chiltern – Birmingham – 2 tph
This gives totals of 2 tph
St. Pancras
Trains are.
- EMR – Corby – two tph
- EMR – Nottingham – two tph
- EMR – Sheffield- two tph
This gives totals of 6 tph
Grand Totals
Grand totals are 17 tph, 10 tp2h and 44 tpd
I will assume.
- 10 tp2h is equivalent to 5 tph.
- 44 tpd is equivalent to 3 tph if trains start journeys between 0600 and 2100.
This means that currently, there is the equivalent of 25 tph between London and the North.
The Effect Of High Speed Two
The capacity of High Speed Two is 17 tph, so, that appears to be a 68 % increase in paths to the North.
Consider.
- Assume we need 25 tph between London and the North.
- 17 tph will be on High Speed Two.
- 8 tph will be on classic routes like the East Coast Main Line, Midland Main Line and West Coast Main Line.
- High Speed Two trains are 400 metres long.
- Current trains are about 240 metres long.
I have done a weighted calculation, which shows that passenger capacity between London and the North, will increase by around 45 %.
High Speed Two will surely release paths between London and the North on the classic routes, that could accommodate somewhere around 17 tph.
These could be used for.
- Services not suitable for High Speed Two
- New services
- Freight services
- Open access services
There is a lot of capacity that can be reused.
What Will Happen To Classic Routes Between London And The North?
Consider.
- The East Coast Main Line between London and Doncaster, is being upgraded with full digital signalling to allow running at up to 140 mph and increased train frequencies.
- Similar upgrades will be surely be applied to the other classic routes between London and the North.
- Important destinations, that will not be served by High Speed Two, like Coventry, Derby, Leicester, Luton, Milton Keynes and Peterborough could be given high speed connections, to Birmingham, London and Manchester.
- The East Coast Main Line, Midland Main Line and West Coast Main Line will all be electrified with some sections of quadruple track in a few years.
- Currently, the East Coast Main Line, Midland Main Line and West Coast Main Line are mainly 125 mph lines and these could be upgraded to 140 mph with digital signalling.
I could envisage the East Coast Main Line, Midland Main Line and West Coast Main Line being developed into a secondary 140 mph network based on the existing stations lines and services.
Conclusion
High Speed Two is going to have a lot of collateral benefits in Middle England.
The Anonymous Widower 