Gore Street Energy Welcomes Green Light For Larger Battery Projects In England And Wales
The title of this post, is the same as that of this article on Proactive Investors.
These are the introductory paragraphs..
Gore Street Energy Fund has welcomed legal changes to allow battery projects larger than 50MW in England and 350MW in Wales.
The new legislation removes energy storage, except pumped hydro, from the Nationally Significant Infrastructure Projects regime in England and Wales, said the fund.
This will allow larger projects to receive planning permission without government approval.
I can see why they are pleased, as it removes a level of bureaucracy.
I suspect companies like Highview Power will also be pleased as 50 MW is at the lower end of their battery range.
The Future Of West Midlands Trains’s Class 350 Trains
Currently, West Midlands Trains have four sub-fleets of Class 350 trains.
- Class 350/1 – 30 trains – Leased from Angel Trains
- Class 350/2 – 37 trains – Leased from Porterbrook
- Class 350/3 – 10 trains – Leased from Angel Trains
- Class 350/4 – 10 trains – Leased from Angel Trains
Note.
- All are 110 mph trains
- The trains are capable of being modified for 750 VDC third-rail electrification.
Under Future the Wikipedia entry for Class 350 trains says this.
West Midlands Trains announced that they would be replacing all 37 of their 350/2 units for Class 350/4 units cascaded from TransPennine Express and brand new Class 730 units which both can travel up to speeds of 110 mph.
In October 2018, Porterbrook announced it was considering converting its fleet of 350/2s to Battery electric multiple units for potential future cascades to non-electrified routes.
As West Midlands Trains have ordered 45 Class 730 trains for express services, it looks like they will be expanding services on the West Coast Main Line and around the West Midlands.
But it does appear that as many as thirty-seven trains will be returned to Porterbrook.
Class 350 Trains With Batteries
I believe that if fitted with batteries, these trains would meet or be very near to Hitachi’s specification, which is given in this infographic from Hitachi.
Note that 90 kilometres is 56 miles.
Could West Midlands Trains Run Any Services With Class 350 Trains With Batteries?
I think there are some possibilities
- Birmingham New Street and Shrewsbury – 30 miles without electrification between Shrewsbury and Wolverhampton – Charging facility needed at Shrewsbury.
- Birmingham New Street and Hereford via Worcester – 41 miles without electrification between Hereford and Bromsgrove – Charging facility needed at Hereford.
- Leamington Spa and Nuneaton via Coventry – 19 miles without electrification – Charging on existing electrification at Coventry and Nuneaton.
- The proposed direct Wolverhampton and Walsall service, that i wrote about in Green Light For Revived West Midlands Passenger Service.
There may also be some services added because of the development of the Midlands Rail Hub and extensions to London services,
Who Has Shown Interest In These Trains?
I can’t remember any reports in the media, about any train operator wanting to lease these trains; either without or with batteries.
Conclusion
It does all seem a bit strange to me.
- As a passenger, I see nothing wrong with these trains.
- They are less than twenty years old.
- They are 110 mph trains.
- They have 2+2 interiors, with lots of tables.
- They could be fitted with batteries if required.
But then, all of those things could be said about Greater Anglia’s Class 379 trains.
Midlands Rail Hub
On the Midlands Connect web site, they have a page, which is entitled Midlands Rail Hub.
This is the introductory paragraph.
The Midlands Rail Hub – our flagship project – is the biggest upgrade of our rail network for a generation.
The page contains this helpful map.
There is also a table of journeys and the improvements to be made.
- Birmingham – Nottingham – +1 tph – 72 minutes – 59 minutes
- Birmingham – Leicester – +2 tph – 66 minutes – 42 minutes
- Birmingham – Hereford – +1 tph – 85 minutes – 65 minutes
- Bitmingham – Worcester – +1 tph – 40 minutes – 35 minutes
- Birmingham – Derby – +2 tph – 38 minutes – 38 minutes
- Coventry – Leicester – +2 tph – 57 minutes – 38 minutes
- Coventry – Nottingham -+2 tph – 99 minutes – 63 minutes
- Birmingham – Bristol – +1 tph – 85 minutes – 80 minutes
- Birmingham – Cardiff – +1 tph – 117 minutes – 112 minutes
- Birmingham – Kings Norton – +2 tph – 18 minutes – 14 minutes
Note that the data by each route is the increase in frequency in trains per hour (tph), the current journey time and the future journey time.
I’ll now look at each route in more detail.
Birmingham And Bristol
Consider.
- Birmingham New Street and Bristol Temple Meads stations are 90 miles apart.
- Current service is two tph, which is provided by CrossCountry and goes via Worcestershire Parkway, Cheltenham Spa and Bristol Parkway.
- There is to be an increase of one tph.
- Current journey time is 85 minutes
- Future journey time is 80 minutes
As CrossCrountry’s Birmingham and Bristol service goes through to Edinburgh, Glasgow or Manchester Piccadilly, would it not be convenient, if the service could use High Speed Two to the North of Birmingham?
Birmingham And Cardiff
Consider.
- Birmingham New Street and Cardiff Central stations are 108 miles apart.
- Current service is two tph, which is provided by CrossCountry and goes via Worcestershire Parkway, Cheltenham Spa. Gloucester and Newport.
- There is to be an increase of one tph.
- Current journey time is 85 minutes
- Future journey time is 80 minutes
As CrossCrountry’s Birmingham and Cardiff service goes through to Nottingham, would it not be convenient, if the service could use High Speed Two between Birmingham and Nottingham?
It would appear that both Bristol and Cardiff services could benefit from a High Speed Two connection.
This map from High Speed Two shows the line’s route through the Water Orton area.
Note.
- High Speed Two is shown in various colours.
- High Speed Two splits at the Eastern edge of the map, with the Northern link going to Northern destinations and the Southern link going to Birmingham Interchange and London.
- Curving across the map beneath it, is the M6 motorway, with Spaghetti Junction off the map to the West.
- Water Orton station is in the North East corner of the map.
- The Birmingham and Peterborough Line, which connects Leicester and Birmingham New Street stations via Water Orton runs just tom the North of the route of High Speed Two shown on the map.
This Google Map shows the area.
I wonder if it would be possible to provide links so that the following would be possible.
- Trains running East from New Street station could join High Speed Two to run to East Midlands Hub, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Leeds, Liverpool, Manchester, Newcastle, Sheffield and York.
- Trains from the North could run into New Street station and then continue to Bristol, Cardiff and Cheltenham.
The trains would have to be classic-compatible High Speed Two trains. These would fit into New Street station, as they are shorter than Class 390 trains and will have a aimilar height and width.
Time savings could be as follows.
- Bristol/Cardiff and Edinburgh – 110 minutes
- Bristol/Cardiff and Manchester Piccadilly- 50 minutes
- Bristol/Cardiff and Newcastle – 80 minutes
- Bristol/Cardiff and Nottingham – 45 minutes
All trains would be direct.
Birmingham And Derby
Consider.
- Birmingham New Street and Derby stations are 41 miles apart.
- Current service is two tph, which is provided by CrossCountry and goes via Wilnecote, Tamworth and Burton-on-Trent
- There is to be an increase of two tph.
- Current journey time is 38 minutes
- Future journey time is 38 minutes
- High Speed Two will run three tph between Birmingham Curzon Street and East Midlands Hub station in 20 minutes.
- Midlands Connect will run one tph between Birmingham Curzon Street and Nottingham Station in 30 minutes. See Classic-Compatible High Speed Two Trains At East Midlands Hub Station
Will passengers between Birmingham and Derby use High Speed Two services, which will be four tph or the current ones?
Birmingham And Hereford Via Worcester
Consider.
- Birmingham New Street and Hereford stations are 55 miles apart.
- Current service is one tph, which is provided by West Midlands Trains, and goes via Bromsgrove, Malvern Link and Great Malvern.
- There is to be an increase of one tph.
- Current journey time is 85 minutes
- Future journey time is 65 minutes
- The track between Bromsgrove and Birmingham is electrified.
- Hereford and Bromsgrove are 41 miles apart.
- Worcester and Bromsgrove are 13 miles apart.
With charging facilities at Worcester, this route would be an ideal one for battery electric trains.
Birmingham And Leicester
Consider.
- Birmingham New Street and Leicester stations are 40 miles apart.
- Current service is two tph, which is provided by CrossCountry and goes via Water Orton, Coleshill Parkway, Nuneaton, Hinckley and Narborough.
- There is to be an increase of two tph.
- Current journey time is 66 minutes
- Future journey time is 42 minutes
Birmingham – Nottingham
Consider.
- Birmingham New Street and Nottingham stations are 57 miles apart.
- Current service is two tph, which is provided by CrossCountry and goes via Tamworth, Burton-on-Trent and Derby.
- There is to be an increase of one tph.
- Current journey time is 72 minutes
- Future journey time is 59 minutes
- High Speed Two will run three tph between Birmingham Curzon Street and East Midlands Hub station in 20 minutes.
- Midlands Connect will run one tph between Birmingham Curzon Street and Nottingham Station in 30 minutes. See Classic-Compatible High Speed Two Trains At East Midlands Hub Station
Will passengers between Birmingham and Nottingham use High Speed Two services, which will be four tph or the current ones?
Coventry And Leicester
Consider.
- Coventry and Leicester are 28 miles apart.
- There is currently no direct train and a change is needed at Nuneaton
- There is to be an increase of two tph.
- Current journey time is 57 minutes
- Future journey time is 38 minutes
I suspect that a direct Coventry and Leicester service is being provided that does one of the following.
- Reverses in Nuneaton station.
- Takes a new flyover to cross the West Coast Main Line.
Would the Southern terminus of the route be Coventry, Leamington Spa or Stratford-on-Avon?
Coventry And Nottingham
Consider.
- Coventry and Nottingham are 55 miles apart.
- There is currently no direct train and a change is needed at Birmingham New Street or at both Nuneaton and Leicester.
- There is to be an increase of two tph.
- Current journey time is 99 minutes
- Future journey time is 63 minutes
Would this service be an extension of the Coventry and Leicester service?
As Leicester and Nottingham takes around thirty minutes, this could be the case.
Birmingham And Kings Norton Via The Camp Hill Line
The Midlands Rail Hub page, says this about the Bordesley Chords, which will connect Birmingham Moor Street station to the Camp Hill Line.
Construction of the Bordesley Chords, two viaducts creating new paths to the East Midlands and South West from Birmingham Moor Street Station.
This Google Map shows where they will be built.
Note.
- The Football ground in the North-East corner of the map is St. Andrew’s, which is Birmingham City’s home ground.
- The rail line going North South across the map and passing to the West side of the ground is the Camp Hill Line, which leads to Water Orton station in the North and Kings Norton station in the South.
- The station in the middle of the map is Bordesley station.
- The rail line going NW-SE across the map through the station is the Chiltern Main Line into Birmingham Moor Street station, which is a couple of miles to the North-West.
The two Bordesley chords will be double-track chords linking the following routes.
- Moor Street station to the Camp Hill Line going South to Kings Norton via new stations at Moseley, Kings Heath and Hazelwell.
- Moor Street station to the Camp Hill Line going North to Water Orton station.
The initial service would appear to be two tph between Moor Street and Kings Norton stations.
CrossCountry Trains and Moor Street Station
Consider.
- Birmingham New Street station is very busy.
- Some CrossCountry trains take a Water Orton-Birmingham New Street-Kings Norton route across the city.
Could these trains go between Water Orton and Kings Norton, with a reverse in Moor Street station?
- Plymouth and Edinburgh Waverley
- Cardiff Central and Nottingham
And could these services terminate at Moor Street station?
- Birmingham New Street and Nottingham
- Birmingham New Street and Stansted Airport via Leicester
- Birmingham New Street and Leicester
It would seem there must be scope improve the operation of New Street station, by using Moor Street station and the Bordesley chords.
If all these trains used Moor Street station it would be a very busy station.
In an hour it would handle these trains via the Bordesley chords.
- CrossCountry – 1 tph – Cardiff Central
- CrossCountry – 1 tph – Edinburgh Waverley
- West Midlands Railway – 2 tph – Kings Norton
- CrossCountry – 2 tph – Leicester
- CrossCountry – 2 tph – Nottingham
- CrossCountry – 1 tph – Plymouth
- CrossCountry – 1 tph – Stansted Airport
That is a balanced five tph to the North and five tph to the South.
There would also be the existing services.
- Chiltern Trains – 2 tph – London Marylebone and Birmingham
- West Midlands Railway – 6 tph – Dorridge/Stratford-upon-Avon/Whittocks End and Stourbridge Junction
There would also be the proposed Moor Street and Oxford service.
Battery Electric Trains
If we assume that a battery electric train has a battery range equal to or longer than Hitachi’s quoted figure of 56 miles, these routes are possibilities for battery electric trains.
- Birmingham and Leicester with either electrification or charging at Leicester.
- Birmingham and Hereford with charging at Hereford
- Birmingham and Kings Norton
- Birmingham and Oxford with charging at Oxford and Banbury
- Coventry and Leicester
If the Midland Main Line is electrified in the Nottingham Area, then all services to Nottingham could be added.
CrossCountry And High Speed Two
Consider.
- There are up to half-a-dozen spare hourly paths on both the Northern legs of High Speed Two.
- Using High Speed Two tracks to the North of Birmingham can speed up services considerably.
- CrossCountry needs a new fleet of trains.
- Services could be run using classic-compatible High Speed Two trains.
- The trains might be shorter and would certainly have independent power sources.
It could be a large improvement in quality and journey times, with all current destinations served.
The only extra infrastructure needed would be a connecting junction near Water Orton station. A junction there would work, whether services used Moor Street or New Street station in Birmingham.
Cnnclusion
The concept of a Midlands Rail Hub is very sound.
Connected Energy Wins First Order for Next-Gen Energy Storage System
The title of this post, is the same as that of this article on Renewable Energy Magazine.
This is the introductory paragraph.
Second life battery pioneer, Connected Energy will be installing the first of its new generation of optimized energy storage systems as part of Suffolk County Council’s latest project, The Hold. The Hold, a flagship heritage facility for Suffolk which is due to open later this year on the University of Suffolk’s Ipswich Campus, will house the council’s archive collection and feature a low carbon energy system of which Connected Energy’s E-STOR energy storage system will be a key part. The E-STOR will help optimize energy use and peak loads across a system including PV, EV chargers and critical HVAC, designed to create a controlled climate for the archived materials.
That certainly sounds like a good plan in a town, that I know well.
A few of my thoughts.
Second Life Renault Kangoo Batteries
This paragraph describes the system.
The new 300kW/360kWh containerized systems, which include 24 second life Renault Kangoo batteries, have benefitted from collaborative support from Renault and ABB to increase efficiencies on both the power and capacity sides of the system.
It is surely a good use of second-hand lithium-ion batteries from an electric Renault Kangoo. These batteries appear to have a capacity of 22 kWh and as only 15 kWh per battery is needed for 360 kWh, there must be a margin for refurbishing the batteries and removing any faulty cells.
Towns And Cities Like Ipswich
Ipswich is a town of around a hundred people, a hospital, a central shopping centre a small university, several office blocks, a railway station and a football team.
There must be many large towns and cities, with similar energy needs to Ipswich in the UK.
In East Anglia and Essex, there are fourteen; Basildon, Billericay, Bury St. Edmunds, Cambridge, Chelmsford, Colchester, Harlow, Harwich, Kings Lynn, Lowestoft, Norwich, Peterborough, Southend and Yarmouth
Connected Energy will have a large market to fill.
Distributed Propulsion ‘Maybe The Only Means’ For Small Electric Flight Progress
The title of this post, is the same as that of this article on the Institute of Mechanical Engineers web site.
If you want to fly again, then this article offers pointers to how you might do it.
The E-Fan X Airliner
It gives this latest information on the E-Fa X airliner being tested by Rolls-Royce and Airbus.
Amid the strain of the Covid-19 pandemic, Rolls-Royce and Airbus cancelled flight tests of their E-Fan X airliner, a promising project that could have provided vital data on issues such as thrust management and electric systems at altitude.
Does that mean cancelled or scrapped?
2.5 MW From A Beer Keg-Sized Generator
This paragraph could be important.
“Among the many great achievements from E-Fan X has been the generator – about the same size as a beer keg – but producing a staggering 2.5MW,” said Vittadini’s Rolls-Royce counterpart Paul Stein. “That’s enough power to supply 2,500 homes and fully represents the pioneering spirit on this project.”
This picture shows a Class 66 locomotive.
The locomotive has a 2,460 kW diesel engine and an electric transmission.
I just wonder, if Rolls Royce’s high-powered small generator could replace the large, noisy and smelly diesel engines in these locomotives.
- It will be a lot lighter in weight.
- Could some of the saved weight be used for a battery?
- It could run on aviation biofuel, rather than diesel.
- I wrote about aviation biofuel in Grant Shapps Announcement On Friday.
If the technology worked there are 455 of the noisy locomotives.
Snowballing Improvements
The article has a section with this title and it talks about how electric power may lead to other advantages.
Conclusion
Electric aircraft are more promising, than many think!
Are Fuel Cell Generators The Future For RVs?
The title of this post, is the same as that of this article on Hydrogen Fuel News.
It surely is an interesting concept to go and explore the great outdoors in a vehicle that pollutes what you are enjoying.
But hydrogen power solves the problem!
Should High Speed Two’s Macclesfield And London Service Call At Birmingham Interchange?
Connecting Manchester City Centre to the High Speed Two network will be a major undertaking.
- It looks increasingly likely that High Speed Two and Northern Powerhouse Rail will have a shared line running from the main High Speed Two route through Crewe to Manchester Piccadilly via Manchester Airport.
- Between Manchester Airport and Manchester Piccadilly will be in a high speed tunnel.
- Northern Powerhouse Rail will connect Liverpool Lime Street and Warrington to Manchester Airport and Manchester Piccadilly.
- There will be a major problem keeping train services running between Manchester and Birmingham, London and the South.
But just at Project Rio kept Manchester connected during the rebuilding of the West Coast Main Line in the early years of this century, I believe that a similar creditable alternative route may be starting to evolve.
Avanti’s Additional Class 807 Trains Will Be Delivered
These trains will allow additional services and release some Class 390 trains to reinforce other services.
Avanti West Coast’s Future West Coast Main Line Service
The small fleet of Class 807 trains are needed to provide extra services on the West Coast Main Line.
- But if these trains are successful, will more be used as replacements for the nearly twenty-years-old Class 390 trains?
- Will they also be given more traction power to double as the classic-compatible trains for High Speed Two.
- Other operators might also like to purchase a high capacity 200 metre long high speed train, which would share routes used by High Speed Two.
In Thoughts On Class 807 Trains And High Speed Two’s Classic-Compatible Trains, I discuss the design of extra trains for High Speed Two and the West Coast Main Line.
Surely, though having similar trains handling both roles on the West Coast Main Line and High Speed Two, would be an advantage to Avanti West Coast?
London And Manchester Services
Currently, there are these services between London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly stations.
- Via Milton Keynes Central, Stoke-on-Trent and Stockport
- Via Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield and Stockport
- Via Stafford, Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport
All services have a frequency of one train per hour (tph)
High Speed Two plans to run these services between the South and the Manchester area.
- 1 tph – 200 metres – London Euston and Wigan North Western via Old Oak Common, Crewe and Warrington Bank Quay
- 1 tph – 200 metres – London Euston and Macclesfield via Old Oak Common, Stafford and Stoke.
- 1 tph – 400 metres – London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly via Old Oak Common, Birmingham Interchange and Manchester Airport
- 2 tph – 400 metres – London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly via Old Oak Common and Manchester Airport
- 2 tph – 200 metres – Birmingham Curzon Street and Manchester Piccadilly via Manchester Airport
- 1 tph – 200 metres – Birmingham Curzon Street and Wigan North |Western
Note.
- I have included Wigan North Western, as it has good connections to North Manchester.
- Services can’t go via Manchester Airport until the tunnel is completed.
- The 400 metre services will need to use dedicated High Speed Two tracks, so will need to use the tunnel via Manchester Airport.
Wigan and Macclesfield stations will not be requiring major rebuilding, during the construction of High Speed Two. That should mean the stations will not need to be closed for long periods.
- Macclesfield station could probably handle up to three tph from the South.
- Wigan North Western station could probably handle two tph from the South.
- Work in the Manchester Piccadilly area, may well close the station at times.
I suspect Macclesfield and Wigan North Western could be very useful alternative stations for travelling to and from the South.
Manchester And Birmingham Via Macclesfield
I can see that there could be difficulties for some passengers, if they found themselves at Macclesfield wanting to go to the Birmingham area.
A solution would be for the Macclesfield and London service to stop at Birmingham Interchange, which will be extremely well-connected.
Birmingham Interchange
This map from High Speed Two, shows Birmingham Interchange and Birmingham International stations.
Note.
- Birmingham Interchange station is marked by the blue dot.
- Birmingham International station is to the West of the M42.
The two stations will be connected by an automatic people mover.
Destinations and their frequencies available from Birmingham Interchange, when High Speed Two is complete will include.
- 2 tph – Birmingham Curzon Street
- 1 tph – Carlisle
- 1 tph – East Midlands Hub
- 1 tph – Edinburgh Haymarket
- 1 tph – Edinburgh Waverley
- 1 tph – Glasgow Central
- 1 tph – Leeds
- 5 tph – London Euston
- 1 tph – Manchester Airport
- 1 tph – Manchester Piccadilly
- 5 tph – Old Oak Common
- 1 tph – Preston
It looks like if you miss your train to many important cities at Birmingham Interchange, it will be an hour to wait for the next train.
Destinations and their frequencies available from Birmingham International are currently.
- 8 tph – Birmingham New Street
- 1 tph – Bournemouth
- 1 tph – Crewe
- 0.5 tph to Edinburgh Waverley
- 0.5 tph to Glasgow Central
- 7 tph – London Euston
- 1 tph – Macclesfield
- 1 tph – Manchester Piccadilly
- 1 tph – Reading
- 1 tph – Shrewsbury
- 1 tph – Southampton
- 1 tph – Stafford
- 1 tph – Stoke-on-Trent
- 2 tph – Wolverhampton
Note that 0.5 tph is one train per two hours.
These two lists can be combined.
- 10 tph – Birmingham Curzon Street/New Street
- 1 tph – Bournemouth
- 2 tph – Carlisle
- 1 tph – Crewe
- 1 tph – East Midlands Hub
- 1.5 tph – Edinburgh Haymarket
- 1.5 tph – Edinburgh Waverley
- 1.5 tph – Glasgow Central
- 1 tph – Leeds
- 12 tph – London Euston
- 1 tph – Macclesfield
- 1 tph – Manchester Airport
- 2 tph – Manchester Piccadilly
- 5 tph – Old Oak Common
- 1 tph – Preston
- 1 tph – Reading
- 1 tph – Shrewsbury
- 1 tph – Southampton
- 1 tph – Stafford
- 1 tph – Stoke-on-Trent
- 2 tph – Wolverhampton
This list is surely missing Bristol, Cardiff, Liverpool, Sheffield and Newcastle.
Conclusion
We should not underestimate the importance of Macclesfield and Wigan North Western stations in getting to and from Manchester during the building of High Speed Two.
Thoughts On Class 807 Trains And High Speed Two’s Classic-Compatible Trains
Avanti West Coast’s New Class 807 Trains
Avanti West Coast have ordered a small fleet of Class 807 trains.
This article on Railnews, gives this short description.
There will be more seats, because a seven-car train will have 453 and five-car sets will have 301. First said the seven-car version will have about the same number of seats as a nine-car Pendolino, because each IET vehicle is longer, at 26m.
Adding standard details of other Hitachi trains in the family, the following seems to be known.
- They are seven-car trains.
- The cars are the standard twenty-six metres, so a seven-car train will be 182 metres.
- Ten trains have been ordered.
- I suspect that like all the other trains in the family, they will be 125 mph trains, that are capable of 140 mph, when the signalling and track allows.
- They are pencilled in for services between London Euston and Birmingham New Street, Blackpool North and Liverpool Lime Street stations
- They will not have batteries or diesel engines for emergency or hotel power. Could this mean, that the trains have been designed for high performance, by removing excess weight?
- The trains don’t have a tilting capability. Does this save weight and increase acceleration?
- The trains have 453 seats, as opposed to the nine-car Class 390 trains, which have 469 seats.
Could these trains be designed, to be able to better the Class 390 train schedules on the West Coast Main Line?
- They have no tilting capability.
- They can only work on electric power, like the Class 390 trains.
- They could have very fast acceleration, due to the weight loss.
- They only reduce capacity by 3.5 %, when compared to a nine-car Class 390 train.
In Will Avanti West Coast’s New Trains Be Able To Achieve London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street In Two Hours?, this was my conclusion.
I believe the following will be possible.
-
- A two hour service between London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street will be possible with Avanti West Coast’s new Class 807 trains.
- The current Class 390 trains could go a bit faster.
- I estimate that a Class 807 train could save as much as two-and-a-half-minutes at each stop.
- Blackpool North and London times will be comfortably under three hours.
- Coventry and London times will be comfortably under an hour.
The performance of these Class 807 trains will improve the West Coast Main Line.
What will London in two hours, do for Liverpool?
Class 807 Trains With Different Car Lengths
It is possible to create a table showing car length, train length and capacity for Class 807 trains
- 26 metres – 182 metres – 453 seats
- 26.5 metres – 185.5 metres – 462 seats
- 27 metres – 189 metres – 470 seats
- 27.5 metres – 192.5 metres – 479 seats
- 28 metres – 196 metres – 488 seats
- 28.5 metres – 199.5 metres – 497 seats
It seems that by lengthening all cars by half a metre, just adds nine seats.
Does this point to the fact, that twenty-six metres was a carefully-chosen optimal car length?
Class 807 Trains With Different Numbers Of Cars
A similar table can also be created for different numbers of twenty-six metre cars.
- 7 cars – 182 metres – 453 seats
- 8 cars – 208 metres – 518 seats
- 9 cars – 234 metres – 582 seats
- 10 cars – 260 metres – 647 seats
Note that as an eleven-car Class 390 train is 265.3 metres, a ten-car Class 807 train will fit all platforms, currently used by eleven-car Class 390 trains.
Replacement Of Eleven-Car Class 390 Trains With Class 807 Trains
The eleven-car Class 390 trains are 265.3 metres long and seat 589 passengers.
Looking at the two tables, nine-car Class 807 trains would be almost direct replacements for an eleven-car Class 390 trains.
- The performance of the Class 807 trains would be as good if not better.
- The passenger capacity of both trains would be similar, with just seven seats less in the new trains.
- The Class 807 trains would also be shorter and could fit any platform currently served by an eleven-car Class 390 train.
It should also be noted, that the Class 807 trains would have to run as singles, as platforms on the West Coast Main Line can’t handle a four hundred metre train.
I believe it is highly likely that the classic-compatible trains for High Speed Two and the trains that replace the Class 390 trains will be the same and based on the Class 807 trains, that are now being assembled at Hitachi’s factory at Newton Aycliffe.
Could A Class 807 Train Be Stretched To Become A High Speed Two Classic-Compatible Train?
The Classic-Compatible trains are described in this section in Wikipedia, by this sentence.
The classic-compatible trains, capable of high speed but built to a British loading gauge, permitting them to leave the high speed track to join conventional routes such as the West Coast Main Line, Midland Main Line and East Coast Main Line. Such trains would allow running of HS2 services to the north of England and Scotland, although these non-tilting trains would run slower than existing tilting trains on conventional track. HS2 Ltd has stated that, because these trains must be specifically designed for the British network and cannot be bought “off-the-shelf”, these conventional trains were expected to be around 50% more expensive, costing around £40 million per train rather than £27 million for the captive stock.
The trains will have the same characteristics as the full-size trains.
- Maximum speed of 225 mph.
- Cruising speed of 205 mph on High Speed Two.
- Length of 200 metres.
- Ability to work in pairs.
- A passenger capacity around 500-600 passengers.
A seven-car Class 807 train with twenty-six metre long cars would appear to be a partial match and tick all the boxes, except for the following.
- The train’s maximum and cruising speeds are well below what is needed.
- The train is only 182 metres long.
- The train has a passenger capacity of 453.
Would a train with eight twenty-five metre long cars be a better fit?
- The train length would be 200 metres.
- I doubt twenty-five metre cars would cause a problem!
- I estimate the passenger capacity would be 498 seats.
The trains or members of the same family have already shown.
- They can run on the East Coast, Great Western, Midland and West Coast Main Lines.
- They can run on High Speed One.
- They can split and join automatically.
- When needed they can run on local lines.
If I was Avanti West Coast’s train-Czar, I would be seriously interested in a Classic-Compatible High Speed Two train, that was very similar to one, that I already had in service. Provided, of course it did what it promised in the specification.
In Wikipedia, the car lengths for Class 800, Class 801, Class 802, Class 805 and Class 810 trains are all given and have been reported in the media.
But the car lengths of the Class 803 and Class 807 trains are not given. Is it just an omission or is it deliberate?
Both these trains are designed for demanding routes.
- The Class 803 trains are designed for London and Edinburgh in four hours.
- I believe that the Class 807 trains are designed for London and Liverpool in two hours.
To get these demanding times, have Hitachi changed the car lengths?
- Trains with shorter cars might accelerate better.
- A redesigned interior might get more passengers in the shorter length.
I shall await the launch of both these lightweight speedsters with interest!
Conclusion
I wouldn’t be surprised that Hitachi’s offering for more trains on the West Coast Main Line and the Classic-Compatible trains for High Speed Two are very similar to the Class 807 trains.
- The classic-compatible trains for High Speed Two could be eight-car trains with twenty-five metre cars.
- The replacements for the eleven-car Class 390 trains could be nine-car trains with twenty-six metre cars.
Both would be based on the Class 807 train.


























